 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2006Proper sway equipment?
First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads from releasing properly. Now, I'd like to ask about sway/load distributing hitches on a TT. I'm getting some different answers to some simple questions. Tow vehicle is a 3/4ton Ford. Trailer is 28' and weighs 6000 lbs wet. I've heard I MUST get a Hensley or other sway equipment, and I've heard they only get you in trouble in rain, or similar. This thing tows fine with just the ball hitch, no weight distribution. Of course this is just testing for right now. May I have some opinions of what you guys with experience think? My experience has been fifth wheels up to now. Thanks. MM^^ > Tow vehicle is a 3/4ton Ford. Trailer is 28' and weighs 6000 lbs wet. I've > heard I MUST get a Hensley or other sway equipment, and I've heard they only > get you in trouble in rain, or similar. This thing tows fine with just the > ball hitch, no weight distribution. Of course this is just testing for right You've heard some decent advise, and many exaggerations, which is par for the course here and in rort. Check the manual for your truck and the ratings for your hitch to see if you should have a weight distributing hitch. If a WDH is necessary, a common spring bar style WDH should be fine. The Hensley and a couple others are for people who want to stabilize unstable rigs -- and I'm not interested in debating whether that's a wise idea or not. It doesn't matter to me. One data point for you: 2002 GMC 1500 with all factory towing options. 24' TT, GVW 5800, and I'm usually pretty close to the max (once I weighed in at almost exactly 6,000, too). Tongue weight is ~700 pounds. It tows with perfect stability whether I use a WDH or unhook the spring bars for standard weight-carrying hitching. Either way, the truck does not squat very much. The hitch and my truck's manual both say to use a WDH with my trailer, so I do, to be legal and to avoid any insurance issues if there is ever an accident. The trailer used to be very low, and I flipped the axles to raise it. I thought that would reduce the stability, but it seems unaffected. The only way I can get any sway is by jerking the steering wheel at highway speed. I imagine your older F250 should do the job fine either way, too. If your manual and ratings don't require a WDH, you might invest $30 in a standard drawbar and ball, and drive around to see how it feels. Er, more notes: > The Hensley and a couple others are for people who want to stabilize > unstable rigs -- and I'm not interested in debating whether that's a To make a long story short: They're for problem solving. > One data point for you: > 2002 GMC 1500 with all factory towing options. 24' TT, GVW 5800, and Extended cab, 7' bed. > your manual and ratings don't require a WDH, you might invest $30 in a > standard drawbar and ball, and drive around to see how it feels. At Wal Mart or Lowes. You'll also get a feel for the height of your hitch, how far your truck will squat, how low the rear of the trailer will be, if you'll scrape going into gas stations, etc. I am guessing that with the 3/4 ton the need for weight distribution might be iffy; but check your owners manual or see if there is a separate towing guide offered by Ford. I have put a lot of weight on the hitch and in the bed of my two Chevy 2500HD's withhout substantial squat. Sway control is another matter. I prefer them but maybe as a peace-of-mind thing. Prior the our 5th wheel the only travel trailer we pulled much was a 21' Road Ranger and it was pulled behind an older, full size Blazer. Short wheel base + short hitch to axle distance on the trailer made me happy to have it; and it drove as well as can be expected. Sounds like your rig is bigger. RonB > First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking > brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > MM^^ > Sway control is another matter. I prefer them but maybe as a > peace-of-mind thing. Prior the our 5th wheel the only travel trailer we > pulled much was a 21' Road Ranger and it was pulled behind an older, full > size Blazer. Short wheel base + short hitch to axle distance on the > trailer made me happy to have it; and it drove as well as can be expected. > Sounds like your rig is bigger. I'll add that I will always err to the safe side if we start pulling a TT again. I will use sway control. I have posted here before that many think sway is an short term problem that effects control. It isn't necessarily short term. Years ago we borrowed a nearly-new 21' flat bed utility trailer to collect firewood for a Boy Scout fund raiser. We didn't know the owner had put it and tow vehicle into a ditch to avoid an accident, and damaged the suspension. With about 1-1/2 to 2 tons of firewood and other stuff on board; and driving straight on a two-lane highway, I got into a sway condition (apparently reached its critical speed of about 55mph). It lasted no less than one mile and was very violent. Any attempt to brake made it worse. Driving at steady speed maintained sway that barely allowed me to keep the vehicle between shoulders (thank God no traffic). As I was resigning to the fact that we were going to wreck, I tried touching the electric brake control lightly while accelerating lightly. For some reason in worked, so I was able to slow down using the trailer brakes with a slight amount of power. Other than a stinky truck cab and extremely high heart rate there was no damage. That is why I favor sway control. Give it some thought. RonB again > > Sway control is another matter. I prefer them but maybe as a > > That is why I favor sway control. Give it some thought. Well, I have........from what I learned so far, it *is* mainly a problem solver. Like with your experience. I don't know about the axle placement on your borrowed trailer, who built it, how it was loaded. I'm glad you made it ok. I've built a couple of utility trailers, and was very careful where I put the axles, OR made them adjustable. I never had to adjust them and they all pulled fine across the country with max load. Of course they had low CG's due to using drop axles. What about winds? Maybe this is where the sway controls help the most? My objective is to get what I need, not what the mfg's want to sell...... MM^^ > that we were going to wreck, I tried touching the electric brake control > lightly while accelerating lightly. For some reason in worked, so I was > able to slow down using the trailer brakes with a slight amount of power. No mystery here. That is the accepted method for stopping sway. It's easy to visualize the forces involved yanking everything straight with that procedure. > That is why I favor sway control. Give it some thought. Er...you generally favor it? Not as a problem solver, but prophylactically on all trailering rigs? I have a friction sway control that I bought with my weight distributing hitch. It's still in it's box, sitting in my trailer. I see where "RonB" <rbrogan@cox.net> contributed: >With about 1-1/2 to 2 tons of firewood and other stuff on board; and driving >straight on a two-lane highway, I got into a sway condition (apparently [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >That is why I favor sway control. Give it some thought. With the clear understanding that many disagree with my advice, here it is anyway: ================== A trailer can sway for MANY reasons. Hensley, PullRite and 5th- wheel hitches are vastly superior to conventional hitches but address ONLY the level and direction of stresses the swaying trailer applies to the tow vehicle, and better minimize the effects on the tow vehicle.Trailerists concerned about stability would do well to use a "good" hitch. But you must STILL pay attention to proper weight balance, tire pressures, driving habits, and suspension conditions. You CAN wreck your rig due to sway, no matter what hitch you use. Here are some free tips: BALANCE. TT's & utility trailers ought to have about 10-12% of their weight on the tongue, fivers around 20% on the pin, and be more or less equal side to side. TIRES, both on trailer & tow vehicle, should be correctly inflated for the actual load you're carrying. The best pressure is that shown on the inflation chart for your actual measured weight. Absolute precision is neither necessary or possible but don't over-inflate. Often, you may see outraged protests from a bozo who actually believes more air is better, claiming the charts specify a "minimum" pressure. He conveniently ignores an explicit warning from the first page of the Michelin RV Tire Guide he cites, which reads: :"Overinflation will reduce the tire's footprint or contact patch :with the road, thus reducing the traction, braking capacity, and :handling of the vehicle. A tire that is over-inflated for the :load that it is carrying will also contributre to a harsh ride, :uneven tire wear, and will be more susceptible to impact damage." ALIGNMENT of both trailer and tow vehicle suspension as well as the hitch is important. You can't expect a trailer to track straight if the tow car is hunting back & forth or the hitch is off center. HITCH TENSION is a factor: too much tension on the weight- distributing bars takes too much weight off the rear wheels of the tow vehicle and is potentially deadly in sudden braking; too little squashes the rear suspension, unloads the front, and lets the trailer nose down -- all three combine to decrease stability. HIGH WINDS will move trailers around, some more than others, Airstreams and Awards are a little less susceptible to crosswinds but you will do will to park the dang thing on a real windy day. TOW RATINGS have GOT to be conservatively applied if you expect a safe, comfortable trip. I recommend you not exceed about 3/4 of the max tow rating for your vehicle. You are a candidate for the Darwin Award if you try to tow a 9,000 lb Airstream with an Intrepid or a Winstar - no matter what some greedy sales loon tells you. WHEELBASE. The right tow vehicle has a long wheelbase. It is absolutely absurd to expect a Blazer, Jeep Cherokee, or Suzuki Samurai to control a big TT. Those vehicles handle badly by themselves and have all the confidence-building directional stability of a hockey puck once a trailer is attached. OVERHANG. The less the better for minimizing sway because the trailer has less leverage to steer you. That is why the Hensley & PullRite hitches feel as stable as a fifth-wheel setup. For years Suburbans were considered a "good" tow vehicle but they have too much rear overhang compared to some vans. LOOSE PARTS on the hitch platform, the hitch itself, trailer frame, or trailer suspension can cause havoc. Not common but a Big Deal if it happens. *********************************** SPECIAL for those who love "sway control" gadgets: *********************************** "SWAY CONTROL" gadgets are little more than bandaids, with minimal effectiveness. If everything else is right they are unnecessary. At best they introduce some small resistance to sway, and at worst they can cause you a crisis under slippery conditions. I do NOT recommend them. Instead, of you are serious about towing, check all the other stuff and get a good hitch. ======================================== This lecture brought to you free by Will Sill KD3XR, who hopes you are not offended by anything you read, inferred, assumed, presumed or otherwise guessed I might have possibly meant as demeaning - unless of course you are personally a humorless nitwit who WANTS to be insulted. In which case be my guest. > I see where "RonB" <rbrogan@cox.net> contributed: Yep, I think I read that somewhere's else.....sounds right. However, a question. A reciever hitch is bolted to the frame pretty close to the axle, right? That's where the weight is on a TT's tongue. Now what does the Hensley do better? Move it forward a couple inches? MM^^ > However, a question. A reciever hitch is bolted to the frame pretty close to > the axle, right? That's where the weight is on a TT's tongue. Now what does > the Hensley do better? Move it forward a couple inches? A receiver hitch is attached to the frame at the far rear. Take a look. Anyway, a common receiver is stiffly mounted as an extension of the frame (either bolted or welded). The weight is borne at the ball, and you measure your lever arm from there. That's why a common weight distributing hitch can be used. It pushes the front of the tow vehicle down by torquing the receiver, which is (as I previously stated) mounted to the frame. I don't recall how the Hensley hitch works. The competing Pullrite hitch moves the pivot near (or perhaps at) the axle, so there is no lever pulling the front of the tow vehicle up. You won't need it with your F250. I'm not even entirely sure that you'll need a regular, common WDH. "Will Sill" <will@epix.gnet> wrote (in part): > TIRES, both on trailer & tow vehicle, should be correctly inflated > for the actual load you're carrying. The best pressure is that shown > on the inflation chart for your actual measured weight. That's *not* what Michelin states; just look at the explicit inflation recommendations on Page 6 of their RV Tire Guide, which can be found by going to http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/pdf/RVTIREGUIDE1.pdf > Absolute > precision is neither necessary or possible but don't over-inflate. Inflation above the minimum for the load isn't overinflation, just as adding oil above the minimum required for the engine (but not above the maximum--which is significantly above the minimum) isn't overfilling the oil. > Often, you may see outraged protests from a bozo who actually believes > more air is better, claiming the charts specify a "minimum" pressure. That "'minimum' pressure" statement comes from Michelin. Page 1 of their RV Tire Guide states, "If you look on your tire's sidewall you'll see the maximum load allowed for the tire size and load rating, and the minimum cold air inflation pressure needed to carry that stated maximum load." Note that Michelin uses the phrase "minimum cold air inflation pressure"--even though Mr. Sill ignores it. They do *not* state that the minimum pressure for the load is the best pressure; Mr. Sill makes that claim without any support from the tire manufacturers! > He conveniently ignores an explicit warning from the first page of the > Michelin RV Tire Guide he cites, which reads: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > :load that it is carrying will also contributre to a harsh ride, > :uneven tire wear, and will be more susceptible to impact damage." No one here is ignoring that statement. It's a general statement, and it's followed later by explicit inflation recommendations--which are ignored by Mr. Sill. He ignores *all* of the Michelin RV Tire Guide except that one small section on Page 1. By ignoring the rest of the document, he takes his favorite statement out of context and tells a half-truth. Since he is on record as stating that, "Snatching the phrase out of its context makes it meaningless," we know that his claim is meaningless. He has repeatedly stated that a half-truth is a whole lie, and so he must also admit that *his* half truth is a whole lie. If one wants to properly inflate one's RV Tires, then one should follow Michelin's explicit inflation recommendations, found on Page 6 of their guide: "How to Use The Actual RV Weight Information With The Tire Data Load Chart "Let's consider an RV running on its original equipment 8R19.5 XZA LRF tires, with actual corner weights of 2,100 lbs. on the left front tire, 2,600 lbs. on the right front tire, 5,680 lbs. on the left rear duals and 5,160 lbs. on the right rear duals. For control of your RV, it is critical that the tire pressure be the same across an axle. Therefore, we must "overinflate" the left front tire and the right rear duals. Checking the load/inflation table below shows that a cold tire pressure of 70 psi will support 2,800 lbs. on a single front tire. To accommodate the temporary shifting of load from side to side which is common in RV's however, 75 psi in both front tires is recommended as this will provide a reserve capacity for the tires. "To determine the air pressure for the rear duals, again take the heaviest position, in this instance, the left rear which weighs 5,680 lbs. The load/inflation table below shows that a cold pressure of 75 psi will support 5,740 lbs. on 2 dual tires. For reserve capacity, a cold inflation pressure of 80 psi is recommended in all four dual tires. "It is important to note that the cold inflation pressure for the tire must never exceed the maximum inflation rating stamped on the wheel. "REMEMBER: For control of your RV, it is critical that the cold inflation pressure must be the same on both sides of an axle." The wise individual will ignore Mr. Sill's intentional misrepresentations, as well as his claims that the Michelin RV Tire Guide contains "sloppy verbiage," and that it is "illogical" and "contradictory." Instead, the wise individual will read and follow the tire manufacturers' explicit inflation recommendations.  SignatureD.J., N8DO; FMCA 147762 dj[underscore]osborn at yahoo dot com > "Will Sill" <will@epix.gnet> wrote (in part): > > TIRES, both on trailer & tow vehicle, should be correctly inflated > > That's *not* what Michelin states; just look at the explicit inflation FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! (Come on, people, chant with me...) FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! I wanna see you oldsters get in a fist fight to finally settle the tire pressure issue. > First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking > brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads from [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > MM^^ I am towing a 8000 lbs trailer with a F-250 wit ha Reese dual cam wd hitch. Works well once it was set up properly. Which one you get seems to be less important than having it set up properly. Michelle P >First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking >brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads from [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >May I have some opinions of what you guys with experience think? My >experience has been fifth wheels up to now. Weight distribution is a good idea. Your hitch likely requires it on a trailer with a certain tongue weight, likely less than your trailer. Without it the trailer takes weight off the front axle, not a good idea. We don't bother with the sway control on our f350; it seems to make no difference. > First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking > brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > right > now. The first thing I'd like to comment on is this...You should use some type of weight distribution hitch. Secondly, I have used various brands of WDH in the past and (never a Hensley or Pull Right) and I love the Equal-i-zer brand. This particular hitch incorporates sway control into the design; it's not an add on. I have pulled a 6000 pound wet 26' TT across the great plains states (both Dakotas, eastern Montana, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, ect) with a 1/2 ton Chevy in high cross winds and the trailer/tow vehicle felt as though it was on rails...I barely noticed the cross winds. I have never experienced a "white knuckle" moment when meeting semi's or in a strong cross wind when towing with that setup. I have many scarey moments with Reese hitches. I cannot recommend the Equal-i-zer brand highly enough; It is the only hitch I will use for travel trailer applications. > Secondly, I have used various brands of WDH in the past and (never a Hensley > or Pull Right) and I love the Equal-i-zer brand. This particular hitch [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Equal-i-zer brand highly enough; It is the only hitch I will use for travel > trailer applications. Thanks for the comments. I'll try and find one. Any idea of the cost? MM^^ > "Advocate" <Advo@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > Equal-i-zer brand highly enough; It is the only hitch I will use for > > Thanks for the comments. I'll try and find one. Any idea of the cost? http://froogle.google.com/froogle?&q=Equal-i-zer Thanks to everyone. I've decided to go with a standard WD hitch, and no sway control. I'm convinced that if the axles are place right (70% behind ball), and everything else is right, I shouldn't have trouble. I've also read some stats that suggest sway equipment *may* be unhealthy at times. Actually this trailer is only temporary and I was asking mainly for the future. I'm going to see if this thing is what I want, and, if it is; buy the biggest thing I can find in a TT later. Probably an Artic Fox, Excel, or used Airstream. Naturally, a larger truck, too:) MM^^ > Thanks to everyone. I've decided to go with a standard WD hitch, and no sway > control. I'm convinced that if the axles are place right (70% behind ball), [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MM^^ You might want to look into the Hensley Arrow hitch. It is not a Band-Aid as the friction type sway controls are, instead it's based on good engineering principles which really work. What it does is force a tow setup to behave under just about any adverse conditions. It is possible to swerve violently enough to cause a conventional hitch to fail to maintain stability. It is hyped and is overpriced but it is the only completely safe hitch which can be transferred from tow vehicle to tow vehicle. The Pullrite costs less but is tow vehicle specific. Hugh > You might want to look into the Hensley Arrow hitch. It is not a Why? He hasn't even tried towing yet, and his rig is probably going to be very stable with a plain old weight carrying hitch. >>You might want to look into the Hensley Arrow hitch. It is not a > > Why? He hasn't even tried towing yet, and his rig is probably going to > be very stable with a plain old weight carrying hitch. Because he "said" this; > I'm going to see if this thing is what I want, and, if it is; buy the > biggest thing I can find in a TT later. Probably an Artic Fox, Excel, or > used Airstream. Naturally, a larger truck, too:) Rather than buy a conventional hitch and then have to buy new bars later, he would be fully prepared no matter how big a travel trailer he buys. The biggest thing he can find is way more than 30' in length. That will be a lotta trailer to hang off even a 350/3500 truck. The Hensley will serve him well no matter what size trailer he gets. Hugh > First, thanks to the ones that helped with my brake problem. (sticking > brakes f250). It indeed, WAS, damaged brake lines that stopped the pads [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > MM^^ I have never been more satisfied with a hitch than this one: http://www.equalizerhitch.com/ Max > I have never been more satisfied with a hitch than this one: > http://www.equalizerhitch.com/ Thanks! And someone already turned me on to this............I believe I'll get it (it's about $500), if the Resse WD hitch ever flinches. I've heard good things about these, and while the Hensley may be also good, I don't trust them due to their marketing video. Showing a Metro pulling a 45 footer or something<G>. If your product is good, word of mouth works better than hype. BTW, I've heard nothing but good stuff about the Jordan Ultima brake controller......any comments? MM^^ >> I have never been more satisfied with a hitch than this one: >> http://www.equalizerhitch.com/ [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >MM^^ I couldn't make it fit my truck. The place where it needed to attach on the brake arm already had something there. I also didn't care for the cable or what'd happen as the brake pads wore, which seems to me should make the trailer brakes do more of the work. I sent it back and bought a Tekonsha prodigy which is easier to install and works quite well. > On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:15 GMT, "Mountain Mike^^" > I couldn't make it fit my truck. The place where it needed to attach [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and bought a Tekonsha prodigy which is easier to install and works > quite well. Interesting. I think people like it because it transfers actually pedal *force* to *actual* trailer braking force. No chance of lock-ups unless you're actually locking up<g>. Or something like that. Since my only experience is with air brakes, I really don't know if this type of braking is better or not or why?? MM^^ >> On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:15 GMT, "Mountain Mike^^" >> I couldn't make it fit my truck. The place where it needed to attach [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >MM^^ Sounds good in theory. I liked the theory of the unit myself. Fact is, though, the Tekonsha prodigy is an excellent controller which has solved most of the problems of its predecessor. If I'm not mistaken, Ford used the same technology the prodigy uses in their built-in controller. We've had the prodigy since 2000 and it has been a set it and forget it unit for us. Nice thing about it is you don't have any cable to stretch or break, unlike the jordan. HaIether unit is much better than the cheapo units from Drawtight and others. > I couldn't make it fit my truck. The place where it needed to attach > on the brake arm already had something there. I also didn't care for > the cable or what'd happen as the brake pads wore, which seems to me > should make the trailer brakes do more of the work. I sent it back > and bought a Tekonsha prodigy which is easier to install and works > quite well. What kind of POS truck were you trying to install it in? <EG> Their installation kits are usually quite vehicle-specific and are quite easy to install. <VEG> SignatureQuotations from Tom Gorrell: "A wing nut without a left or right is just a nut. Which best describes me" "I'm sorry about the erratic weather and must admit it's been caused by the pinko commie Clinton & Reno supporters." "I am hiding nothing, other than the fact that I'm homosexual." Quotation from the Graphic Queer: "I have always advocated the death of the human being and I see that I was right all along. This earth will be so much better off once we are no longer part of the mix." |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.