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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2006Pink Stuff Dillution?
Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see that standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new Sunseeker a couple of times a month all year round so the cost of pink stuff is a consideration. How much can this stuff be diluted and still be effective at zero? Since the Sunseeker has an arctic option, I won't need to have stuff in the holding tanks. I intend to use the stuff as a water rinse, blowing it out after it displaces the water and recollecting it. This way my losses per winterization should be limited a bit more than the need to protect the three traps. Am I barking up the right tree? Dan I see where "Dan Listermann" <dan@listermann.com> contributed: >Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see that >standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >way my losses per winterization should be limited a bit more than the need >to protect the three traps. Am I barking up the right tree? Wrong tree. If you winterize properly, it will cost you less than $5. To winterize *most* rigs the right way: DRAIN water tank & water heater BYBASS water heater CONNECT pump inlet via hose to jug of pink stuff (use tee/valve) PUMP AF into pipes 'til it comes outa faucets (and shower, toilet) DUMP holding tanks For more detailed, illustrated winterizing information see Les Doll's Painless Winterizing, at The RVer's Corner, <http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/painless.html>. In very mild climates you can get away without winterizing at all. Some get by using compressed air, a few by just draining. But if you want to be fairly sure of NEVER having to fix split plumbing parts, the above system is as easy and foolproof as we know about. NOTE: When "un-winterizing", flush the pipes with water BEFORE placing WH bypass valves back to normal. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see > that standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan I thought this thread was about the shitty Cincinnati Chili with cinnamon in it>>>>>> BARF,,BARPH,,,  SignatureMoParMaN---Remove Clothes To Reply --SCUD Coordinates 32.61204 North: 96.92993 West-- >> Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see >> that standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> than the need to protect the three traps. Am I barking up the right >> tree? My own experience with blowing water out of the pipes is that something always remains.I'm in the middle of the state and I don't dilute the stuff at all. Cost is not a real factor with the pink stuff for me because it can be had for under $4 per gallon. In my case, it takes less than a gallon to fill the pipes. Your trailer might only need a gallon, surely less than two to fill the pipes. The pink stuff is very cheap insurance, and because the cost is so little I don't consider it worth the bother of trying to save for reuse. One factor to consider in reusing the saved stuff is contamination, which is something that you definitely don't want in your plumbing. Diluting with water could contribute to that (bacteria growth), and dilution would increase every time you run it through the plumbing because the pink stuff displaces the water that is still in there. SignatureJon JPinOH >> >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >displaces the water that is still in there. > There are several things that can be obtained in the performance of winterization. Some of them are shown here. http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?index=A&pageNext=TRUE&dealerId=7&page Num=387 The water heater by pass is a must, and completely draining it is also necessary. I use the air blow-out first, just to get the water out of the system. If the temperature is just expected to be threatening the freezing point, that is all I do for the fresh water system, provided I intend on keeping heat on the rig. I insure all black and grey tanks are drained, then I add enough of the pink stuff to get it down to the dump valves. Instructions on my brand of the pink stuff said do not dilute, and it is good to -50. If I were to completely winterize, I would blow the water out of the system and use the water pump and siphon kit to pump the pink stuff in to the system. By blowing the water out it saves on the amount of antifreeze required, and insures you do not dilute it. If all the water is blown out of the system, you may need some help in priming the pump to pick up the pink stuff. There is one line that has been neglected in all the procedures for winterizing. That is the supply line between the tank and the pump. In most cases the quickest way is to insure the tank is empty, drain valve open, disconnect the line from the pump and blow air in it. Note a small amount of water will come out the tank drain. If you have a filter in your system I would remove it. Unless you use the air blow out, the water in the city water connector will stay in that line and freeze. The best way is to go SOUTH with the BIRDS! SignatureBILL P. Just Me & DOG > I thought this thread was about the shitty Cincinnati Chili with cinnamon > in it>>>>>> > > BARF,,BARPH,,, Cincy Chili screams "HOME" to me! Dan Thanks to you, I know expect a record cold spell in Cincy this year :P~ If you really plan on using the rig during the winter, skip the pink stuff. Buy a blow-out plug ($1.98 from CW). You can hook up your tire pump (electric is recommended) and blow all the water out of the lines. When you want to fire the camper back up, no flushing is required, just turn on the water and go. Be sure to open all the drain lines (the red and blue capped tubes hanging out from under the RV) and also drain the hot water heater by removing the anode rod. You should also buy a jug or two of the pink stuff to poor in the drains so the traps don't freeze. Steve P.S.: now I know who ownw the Sunseeker I see on I-275 every once in a while. > Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see that > standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan > Thanks to you, I know expect a record cold spell in Cincy this year :P~ > > If you really plan on using the rig during the winter, skip the pink > stuff. > Buy a blow-out plug ($1.98 from CW). You can hook up your tire pump > (electric is recommended) and blow all the water out of the lines. I tried that once. A half hour later, water was still spitting and spraying out of the faucet. No way was compressed air ever going to remove all of the water. The way I set up my Class B, winterizing takes about ten minutes. I set the bypass at the water heater and over the bypass at the water pump for the siphon hose. That siphon is a kit that installed between the water tank and the pump. A turn of the lever selects either one. The end of the siphon hose goes down into the jug of pink stuff. Turn on the pump, open each faucet in turn until the pink stuff comes out, and make sure to operate the toilt flush as well. All done, and I've used 3 quarts of pink stuff. I then open up the low point drains to let the pink stuff out because it has done it's job, which is to displace the water in the pipes. Ne need to leave it there and it makes unwinterizing a snap because all I need to do is fill the water tank. A cup full of pink might come out of the faucet the first time it's opened up. SignatureJon JPinOH -- Jon JPinOH > P.S.: now I know who ownw the Sunseeker I see on I-275 every once in a > while. Not me just yet. We just picked it up Thursday! Dan > Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see that > standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan Pink stuff is so cheap and so little is required to winterize, I see no reason to try and collect the diluted stuff for reuse. JMHO. Hugh Cincy weather is unpredictable at best!!! Head to Wally World and buy a few gallons of anti-freeze. That cost versus new faucets or lines or valves will be worth it! Just like changing the oil in your engine, it's cheap insurance! Unless, of course, you just enjoy making life hard on yourself........ > Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see > that standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dan > Here in Cincy it rarely gets much below zero degrees Fahrenheit. I see that > standard pink stuff is good for 25 below. We expect to use our new > Sunseeker a couple of times a month all year round so the cost of pink stuff > is a consideration. How much can this stuff be diluted and still be > effective at zero? 25 below zero is 57 degrees below freezing. Zero is 32 degrees below freezing (a little more than half as much freezing point depression). Therefore a ratio of a little less than 1:1 should be sufficient to protect down to zero. You'll be safe with 2 parts pink + 1 part fresh. I wouldn't bother because the stuff is pretty inexpensive & you'll likely need less than a gallon. I find it easier to buy a jug of pink stuff when I need it rather than to recover and store it for re-use. I actually set up a few containers for recovery and storage but actually doing the recovery and storage was more of a pain than just stopping at Walmart. > 25 below zero is 57 degrees below freezing. Zero is 32 degrees below > freezing (a little more than half as much freezing point depression). > Therefore a ratio of a little less than 1:1 should be sufficient to > protect down to zero. You'll be safe with 2 parts pink + 1 part fresh. These things are probably not linear. I suppose a little test is in order. > I wouldn't bother because the stuff is pretty inexpensive & you'll > likely need less than a gallon. At $4 a throw, this would be true if I were to only winterizing a few times a year. I expect that we will use the motorhome about twice a month just about all year round so this could add up. And then there is the bother of buying and stocking to consider. > > 25 below zero is 57 degrees below freezing. Zero is 32 degrees below > > freezing (a little more than half as much freezing point depression). > > Therefore a ratio of a little less than 1:1 should be sufficient to > > protect down to zero. You'll be safe with 2 parts pink + 1 part fresh. > > These things are probably not linear. I suppose a little test is in order. Actually, I made a graph. These things tend to be linear when plotted as ratios rather than percents. See: http://www.newarts.com/antifreeze/ In my message I hedged quite a bit by saying 2 parts pink to 1 part water & 50:50 is ok according to the data. Dave
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