>> rear to stiffen it up some. Otherwise consider at least a SRW 1 ton
>> model for this if you are not into adding a few leafs yourself to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>there's also a high center of gravity on the truck, combined with the
>stability required for towing the trailer.
Note: I moved one portion from the middle to the top, since that's
probably the only piece of interest to the OP.
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 06:28:57 -0400, Rick Onanian wrote
>>To get stability with the suggested rig, it will probably be necessary
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Your comment has merit but it would be doable with the proper SRW with
The dual rear wheels provide traction (so trailer sway won't push the
truck around) and extra width for stability. Common pickup campers are
very tall and very heavy, and therefore raise the center of gravity,
resulting in reduced stability. Towing a trailer requires lots of stability.
>>Have you actually tried to haul anything with a modern pickup? New "half
>
> I have been hauling for over 35 years and the suspensions on some new
> 3/4 ton trucks is a joke. Get a 86 HD 3/4 chevy or Ford and but 3K in
> it and then in a new one and the difference is very obviuos. A 2500HD
For 2500 and 3500 series pickups, I can only judge by what I've seen on
the road. I know the weight of roof shingles or dirt by sight, having
dealt with those loads often enough. That said, my observation of modern
vs. older trucks is that the older ones look way overloaded.
> check out the link below as I have started to picture catalog the
> differences and I have more that I will be adding for all models as
> well as for older still models. BTW even the 1 ton DRW dodge have less
> spring today than 10 years ago.
> http://forum.snoman.com/viewforum.php?f=63
You're stuck on quantity and physical dimensions of spring leaf. I don't
think that's valid anymore; based on what I've oberserved of HD pickups,
and experienced in 1500 and compact pickups, it is obvious to me that
spring technology has changed. Either the leafs are made of a different
alloy, or maybe they are shorter in length, or whatever.
My 2002 GMC 1500 has the wimpiest looking springs I've ever seen, but
they carry more load with less squat than ballsy looking springs in
other trucks. My cousin's mid-80s F250, for example, has a big leaf
bundle the way you like, but squats easier than my miniscule setup.
2000 pounds in my truck bed is barely noticable, and very easy to forget
while driving. It still looks level, and feels stable, and rides like a
car at that load -- and that's technically overloaded, with my payload
capacity rated about 1800 including my fat a.s, my ladder racks, and the
pile of junk in my backseat.
I'll try to get you a picture of the springs in my truck. One day, I
made a few runs that turned out to be about 3000 pounds (against my
better judgement*), and that DID cause a lot of squat -- it wasn't
bottomed out, but the rear was somewhat lower than the front.
*: I went to the jobsite, an hour and a half drive, and found out we
needed some loam. If the site was closer, I'd have gone back for the
dumptruck. I went to the gravel yard and asked for 1/2 yard of loam. I
got at least 3/4 yard of sopping wet mud (filled the bed, heaping over
the top, dripping everywhere). I made two more runs like that.
> correct suspension under it because as new trucks ship you will over
> power the new weakened suspensions long before the axle and tires. It
> is all about improving ride for sales.
I suspect that, until the late 1990s, not a lot of engineering effort
was put into trucks -- they were simple workhorses until manufacturers
determined that people would pay through the nose for something more.
Now, with profit margins many times that of a car, they're worth the
extra engineering to get both ride and capacity.
>>>BTW new 2500 and 3500SRW trucks share same
>>>frame, axle and brakes, only the springs are different in the rear so
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> You are mistaken, I have done a LOT of tech research on this and the
I _haven't_ done that particular research, so it's easy enough for me to
believe, as I used to.
SnoMan - 04 Oct 2006 01:39 GMT
>The dual rear wheels provide traction (so trailer sway won't push the
>truck around) and extra width for stability. Common pickup campers are
>very tall and very heavy, and therefore raise the center of gravity,
>resulting in reduced stability. Towing a trailer requires lots of stability.
Dual wheels have there pluses and minuses and at not the must have
that some claim them to be. I have towed some very serious trailers at
highway speeds and some that weighed 14k and a lotmore and I never had
any stabilty issues with any of them on a SRW truck because I make
darn sure on have the proper springs and tires in the rear. I also run
tongue weight well over 1000 lbs too and never use a weight
distributing hitch (I tried one a few times and did not like it)
because if you have the proper tow vehical with the correct tires,
hitch and suspension, you really do not need it. If your vehicle is so
mushy that it has control issues with a 500 or 800 lbs hitch load then
you really need a better tow vehical. There may be a few cases were
one might be needed but it is largely used to allow vehciles that
should not be towing to begin with get by. Besides I mostly use a
pintle hitch these days anyway for the thing I tow which is not weight
distributing freindly but very easy to couple and decouple in any
weather and very strong yet simple too.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Rick Onanian - 04 Oct 2006 02:27 GMT
> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:59:58 GMT, Rick Onanian wrote
>>truck around) and extra width for stability. Common pickup campers are
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> any stabilty issues with any of them on a SRW truck because I make
> darn sure on have the proper springs and tires in the rear. I also run
Ah, but you didn't have the severely raised center of gravity provided
by the truck camper while towing such trailers.
> hitch and suspension, you really do not need it. If your vehicle is so
> mushy that it has control issues with a 500 or 800 lbs hitch load then
> you really need a better tow vehical. There may be a few cases were
I know you weren't addressing my particular rig, but this reminds me: My
TT has a tongue weight of ~700 pounds (depending on how I load it and
what's in the tanks, all of which are at the far rear), and hitched
_without_ weight distributing, the whole rig handles great. I do use a
weight distributing hitch, but only to comply with the law.
> one might be needed but it is largely used to allow vehciles that
> should not be towing to begin with get by.
I'm not so sure about that; the same could be said of stiffer springs,
or lighter trailers. The evidence seems to show that a WDH is a decent
component of many rigs, not necessarily a band-aid for a jury-rigged
deathtrap. I do, however, feel good knowing that my rig is stable and
safe without one, and will probably attempt to keep things that way with
future rigs.