Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2006
my new RV website
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Randy G. - 02 Nov 2006 02:02 GMT Just a bit less than one year ago we bought a 30 foot, 1990 Rexhall Airex on a Ford E33 chassis. Since that time I have spent a lot more effort and time working on it than driving it, but we sort of knew that going it to some extent. During that time I have been documenting my efforts and progress, and today I finally got around to assembling it as HTML had have posted it to my ISP's server at: http://home.surewest.net/frcn/MotorHome/ It is somewhat chronological, and the main portion of it at this point is chapter 7 where I document the refurbishing of the roof. I have approximately 80 hours of labor in the roof, and finished it just a few days before our "winter" weather set in and the rains began! If you are thinking about purchasing a motor home the information there might help you with a roof inspection, and if you are thinking about doing a roof on your own this might help dissuade you from that task ;-) This is an ongoing project, and since I have three or four other websites I do not know how much time I will have to keep this one updated, but we shall see. Who knows? If I get out on the road it may become my primary website!
From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex
Norm - 03 Nov 2006 18:44 GMT > Just a bit less than one year ago we bought a 30 foot, 1990 > Rexhall Airex on a Ford E33 chassis. Since that time I have spent a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > updated, but we shall see. Who knows? If I get out on the road it may > become my primary website! Randy, great website. I'm an RVWanabee and I appreciate your information on purchasing a used RV. Would you be willing to share with everyone what you paid for that Rexhall Airex and if in retrospect you think you got a good deal or not?
Randy G. - 05 Nov 2006 03:05 GMT >Randy, great website. I'm an RVWanabee and I appreciate your information on >purchasing a used RV. Would you be willing to share with everyone what you >paid for that Rexhall Airex and if in retrospect you think you got a good >deal or not? I got it for $9000 with less than 70,000 miles on it. The owner originally had it for something like $13,900 I think, and by the time we looked she had dropped it to $10,000. There was nothing else available around there parts that compared to size/mileage/quality. But because of all the things I found with it (that she apparently didn't know about as well) she took the 9. She was pleased and we were happy- well, my wife was happy, and I am told that's how I felt about it. ;-) She had just had an accident that was her fault and totaled her car, and so she was happy to sell the RV because she didn't have the space to store it and needed the cash.
Before I went to look at it we did some research on the older Rexhall rigs and so I knew about the construction techniques they used. If this had been one of the lesser, wood-framed rigs I would have not purchased it. We have not put all that much into it as far as cash goes, and I do have the time at hand to do the labor, so over all I think we did OK, and at this point I know this thing pretty darn well. I really didn't go into detail about inspecting one, but maybe I should add what little I know about that to the pages. One thing for certain, no matter how carefully you look, there will be things you miss, the number of which will be directly proportionate to the age and miles on the rig. I would highly recommend bringing a creeper and a very bright flashlight and inspecting the undersides very carefully. Look up in all the nooks and crannies, particularly in the area where the sides meet the floors, as it were.
We started out thinking we could get what we wanted for about $2500-4000. Shows how stupid I am! ;-)
We did see some in the "economy range" of purchasing power, but they were pretty well used up and neglected, or too small for us. Since we travel with two German Shepherds, the extra room of a 30 is really nice.
Tomorrow I install the Firestone Coil-Rite air bags to the front coils and will have air all the way around! It has air shocks on the diff, and it has a tag axle with air suspension as well.
If you have any questions I would be glad to help out if I can...
From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex
James - 06 Nov 2006 03:58 GMT Randy,
Thanks for sharing all your RV information. I am fairly new to RVs also and mine needs a lot of repair and maintenance too.
Just a couple of weeks ago, mine started leaking through the Winegard antenna mount. Mine also has the coupling and the cable feed-through is about a foot away from the mount. I have not repaired it yet and I am interested in more details about how you did it.
Did you eliminate the coax connector? If so, do you now have one long cable from the top of the antenna all the way to the amplifier?
My amplifier is in a cabinet about a foot from the anntena so if I feed the cable through the antenna mount it will have to be routed through the inside of the ceiling to the cabinet. Is that what you had to do in order to feed yours through the antenna mount? How did you seal the old hole? In the Wineguard installation manual the cable at the base is shown with a rubber boot on it. Is that all you used, or did you also seal it with caulking?
What did you use to seal the antenna mount to the roof? I was going to use ProFlex caulking and then perhaps seal around the whole thing with ProFlex "brushable." I also considered using butyl tape.
I have purchased a bunch of stainless steel sheet metals screws to replace all the cad-plated ones used on my RV exterior (most of which have rusted). These are available at www.boltdepot.com at reasonable prices. I couldn't find them locally.
Mine is a 1979 RV and it has been sealed multiple times with the same awful hard stuff that yours had, and several other types of sealer all of which are failing. I am in the process of removing it all and reasealing as you did. What fun!
James
Randy G. - 06 Nov 2006 04:57 GMT In regards to the winegard, you can download the PDF of the installation manual from the WInegard website which will give you some clues as to how it works and where it can leak. Try the RV-3095 manual if you are not sure what you have: http://www.winegard.com/manuals.htm#mobile_ant The pictures of all the parts is marginal at best, but it does detail the removal of the elevating shaft.
If it is leaking down the center elevating shaft (the raising/lowering/aiming interior bit), there is a rubber seal on the shaft at the top side. The PDF explains how to access this. If it is a general leak, then the best thing to do is remove the entire antenna from the roof, check the shaft seal on the operating shaft thingy (it can be removed without removing the mounting plate from the roof, though), reseal the base with butyl putty tape, then apply something like C10 or Proflex RV to the screws and the edge around the base as I did. The tape will be thicker than you need, and if it is cold and not pliable, do not tighten the screws too much to start. It might take a few hours, or even a day or two) for the tape to flatten enough for the mount to seat. Be careful not to strip out the screws.
I cannot reason why anyone would not use the built-in feed for the antenna lead in.. Oh.. wait... Maybe the same idiots who resealed my roof installed it..? That would explain it! ;-)
be aware that you are supposed to lubricate the center shaft seal, the elevating gears, and the rotating portion (at from the top, I think) with spray silicone on a regular basis. it has probably been neglected, and doing so might just solve your leak.
Yes, I eliminated the coax connector that was mid-span on the wire. I just got a long enough piece of coax to be able to run it from the antenna, through the shaft, down through the base, and all the way to the amplifier. And yes, I had to pull off some trim to run my antenna backwards to gain access to the side of the home where there is room. My home is built with a 1" square tubing framework throughout, including the ceiling, and the cabinets are screwed in to that, so there was no way through the cabinets- I had to go around.
And maybe even more amazing, the fools who ran the antenna just left the original Winegard boots on the cable even though they were not using them, so I just sprayed them with a bit of silicone and used them to seal the new run of wire. One boot on the amplified head and another on the pass through on the base They also show push-on connectors on the amplifier, but screw on connectors work as well.
The old hole... As I remember, I put in a piece of cardboard or something to create a base and used auto body repair filler (Bondo) to fill over it. Most of the smaller defects in the roof I used spot putty (a solvent base putty that self dries and comes in a squeeze tube. Very handy stuff!). You cannot see the repair at all through the roof coat.
I believe that you will find that the Pro-flex brushable is intended for spot repairs only (I talked to their chemist). They did not formulate it for large areas.
Butyl tape has to be secured. It is for going between two other things, like between the roof and the screwed down base of the antenna. There is good and bad concerning butyl. For example, I chose not to use it between the roof rack and the roof since the non-drying nature of butyl leaves it flexible and so it allows movement. The movement would allow the screws to work loose, thus causing a leak. I screwed the rack directly onto the roof, then sealed the screws as well as the perimeter of the mounts with C10. Butyl tape is good for areas that you know for sure are going to move around no matter ho well secured they are (like at the cab to roof joint).
Remember that I am somewhat new to this stuff, and some of my repairs may not hold either, so consult a pro before doing anything like this as it will save you problems later. Of course, every time I went into the local RV store and told them what I was going to do they would sell me something, then when I went back with pictures of what I did they would tell me, "Oh.. Well, I would have done it this way instead." SO my attitude is at this point that I have the choice of taking their information, buying their goods at retail prices, and screwing things up, or I can buy on the Internet based on my best information gathered and screw it up myself without their help. ;-)
The Proflex caulking is really great stuff, and if it lasts as long as they way is worth every penny. You can get it directly from their website and the price is quite good and they charge reasonable shipping as well.
I hope I answered all your questions. I spent about 4 hours today installing the Firestone Coil-Rite air bags in the front springs today and am quite exhausted...
From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex
>Randy, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >James James - 06 Nov 2006 07:21 GMT Randy,
> In regards to the winegard, you can download the PDF of the > installation manual from the WInegard website which will give you some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The pictures of all the parts is marginal at best, but it does detail > the removal of the elevating shaft. I do already have the manual that came with the antenna.
> If it is leaking down the center elevating shaft (the > raising/lowering/aiming interior bit), there is a rubber seal on the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > few hours, or even a day or two) for the tape to flatten enough for > the mount to seat. Be careful not to strip out the screws. It's hard to know where exactly it was leaking--it was just dripping from the handle inside. It is possible that the leak was actually occurring elsewhere and just dripping out at the handle. But when I looked at the roof the antenna seal was all cracking and curling so I figure that needed to be resealed regardless of where the actual leak was. So, I took the whole antenna off and temporarily sealed the holes with some aluminum sheet and butyl tape.
I have used the butyl tape to reseal some of the windows so I am familiar with it. When I looked at the Winegard manual it said to use silicon or butyl caulking under the mounting plate, so that is why I was considering it. Before reading the manual, I was planning to use the butyl tape.
Also I found that the base plate is bent--I suspect a previous owner ran into something with the antenna up. I am afraid to attempt to try to get the base plate apart from the rest of the mounting for fear I can't get it back together (it is quite corroded). I am also afraid to heat it with a torch (to bend it) because I fear I will damage some component inside (gaskets). So, I think I will just leave it bent and the butyl tape will probably provide the best seal.
> I cannot reason why anyone would not use the built-in feed for the > antenna lead in.. Oh.. wait... Maybe the same idiots who resealed my > roof installed it..? That would explain it! ;-) That must be it! On the other hand, there seem to be plenty of idiots repairing roofs and installing antennas.
> be aware that you are supposed to lubricate the center shaft seal, the > elevating gears, and the rotating portion (at from the top, I think) > with spray silicone on a regular basis. it has probably been > neglected, and doing so might just solve your leak. I did lube it with silicon spray after I got it apart. If the gasket was leaking that may have fixed it as you say.
My roof is unsupported aluminum and the air conditioner has cause it to sag in the middle which, of course, causes a big puddle to form when it rains. Thus any tiny leaks become big leaks with that much water above them. I may start parking it elevated at one end during the rainy season.
> Yes, I eliminated the coax connector that was mid-span on the wire. I > just got a long enough piece of coax to be able to run it from the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > including the ceiling, and the cabinets are screwed in to that, so > there was no way through the cabinets- I had to go around. Good to know. Mine, I think will be easier. I can probably just thread it though the old ceiling hole above the amp and over to the antenna mounting hole and up.
> And maybe even more amazing, the fools who ran the antenna just left > the original Winegard boots on the cable even though they were not > using them, so I just sprayed them with a bit of silicone and used > them to seal the new run of wire. One boot on the amplified head and > another on the pass through on the base They also show push-on > connectors on the amplifier, but screw on connectors work as well. Since my wire pass-though could be underwater (the puddle), I think I will use the ProFlex on it too.
> The old hole... As I remember, I put in a piece of cardboard or > something to create a base and used auto body repair filler (Bondo) to > fill over it. Most of the smaller defects in the roof I used spot > putty (a solvent base putty that self dries and comes in a squeeze > tube. Very handy stuff!). You cannot see the repair at all through the > roof coat. Great idea. I think I have both of them on hand.
> I believe that you will find that the Pro-flex brushable is intended > for spot repairs only (I talked to their chemist). They did not > formulate it for large areas. Good to know. I just bought both the caulking and brushable so I could have both on hand. I have not yet used either of them.
> Butyl tape has to be secured. It is for going between two other > things, like between the roof and the screwed down base of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > areas that you know for sure are going to move around no matter ho > well secured they are (like at the cab to roof joint). Good point. I did reseal one roof rack attachment with the butyl tape but I was uneasy with the resulting flexibility. I think I will redo it as you did.
> Remember that I am somewhat new to this stuff, and some of my repairs > may not hold either, so consult a pro before doing anything like this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > screwing things up, or I can buy on the Internet based on my best > information gathered and screw it up myself without their help. ;-) I have come to a similar conclusion. I have received all kinds of differing advice from all kinds of RVer's and the current (awful) patching on the roof was done by the so-called experts. There does seem to be a lot of different opinions on which sealant to use where. I have tried three already about a year ago and two of them are already cracked. Two of them were for RV's but the one that I like the best is actually a home caulking, DAP Dynaflex 230.
> The Proflex caulking is really great stuff, and if it lasts as long as > they way is worth every penny. You can get it directly from their > website and the price is quite good and they charge reasonable > shipping as well. I got mine at Camping World--nice to know I can get them from the manufacturer's site also.
Years ago I used to be a research chemist and I did a lot of work with plastics and adhesives. When evaluating an adhesive we would do comparison testing for adhesion, chemical resistance, flexibility, temp resistance, etc. (side by side testing with other products). It's too bad someone hasn't done this for RV sealants and caulkings.
> I hope I answered all your questions. Yes, thank you ever so much. If I can be of any help, feel free to email me.
>I spent about 4 hours today > installing the Firestone Coil-Rite air bags in the front springs today > and am quite exhausted... Hopefully, it will have been worth it.
Best Regards, James
Randy G. - 06 Nov 2006 16:28 GMT With the corrosion, leakage, and bent base plate of the antenna, you might think about getting another antenna. Look at eBay. The RV-3095 can be had for about $140 shipped (shop around and Froogle for it). As far as straightening the base plate, aluminum alloys like that do not take well to being re-bent. This is where butyl comes in handy! leave the roll of tape in the sun or in a warm room for a day before use. It will handle and form better when warm. You might do the same with the antenna as well. If it is cold pout, apply the tape inside while the tape and plate are still warm before taking it outside for installation.
The pass through is on the base plate in front of the antenna mounting ears. It should be raised, and the black, rubber sealing thingy is a really tight fit and should not leak. If paranoid you can use a tie wrap around it to be sure. It shouldn't need any sealant. My installation was original (wire across the roof to the corner) because no one had ever drilled the hole in the roof for the pass through for the lead.
Originally you did not mention what the roof was made of. Since it is aluminum it may need different treatment. I am not sure about using the bondo on aluminum. Are you going to paint the roof? if not, then it might be pretty ugly with bondo on it. Also, most of those sorts of patching compounds are not UV stable, so be prepared to coat them with something. Certainly, there is no need to coat the entire roof, and the use of heat to remove some of the old sealant is a possibility. As I mentioned in the website, I recently bought a heat gun (Wagner/Milwaukee) with digital temperature control. The thing is amazing! Made removing the stripes an easy task.
As far as the sagging air conditioner area, you may want to remove the inside, ceiling portion of the unit (it comes off separately- disconnect power before monkeying in there) and examine the roof area from the inside. There should be a wood frame between the ceiling and the roofing to support the compression that is created when bolting the unit onto the roof. You might be able to get in there and further reinforce that area. It is a good time to examine the air conditioner seal at this time as well.
As my story relates, it can take a lot of hours to refurbish the roof, and the best advice I can give is do it right! Reseal everything- vents, rack, ladder, vents, etc. Where two things come together, take them apart and reseal them and be done with it! It makes the job a lot easier if all that is removed anyway on some roofs. Of course, this is all general comments since I have not seen your roof. I would have done a lot more, but as it was, I ended up just beating the rains by less than a week.
The Pro-Flex states that it will stick even when applied to damp or oily surfaces, so it should hold up pretty well. I applied it in areas where it was really thick (like 3/8-1/2" through the thickest area) and other places where it was really thin (1/16 - 1/8"), and in all cases it worked really great. It seemed to work so well that I contemplated removing all the C10 that I had applied around the inside perimeter of the roof and replacing it with Pro-Flex. One tip- just before applying the Pro-Flex, dampen a rag with some mineral spirits (paint thinner) and wipe the area with it, then a quick wipe with a dry rag. Apply a section, then smooth with a finger dampened with a bit of mineral spirits. After that, don't touch it. It will look "factory."
Call and talk to their chemist- he was very friendly and would probably like talking to you.
From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex
James - 06 Nov 2006 19:30 GMT Randy;
> With the corrosion, leakage, and bent base plate of the antenna, you > might think about getting another antenna. Look at eBay. The RV-3095 > can be had for about $140 shipped (shop around and Froogle for it). I considered it, but I'm going to give the old one a try.
>As > far as straightening the base plate, aluminum alloys like that do not > take well to being re-bent. I find that heating with torch works wonders. When it reaches a certain temp, it become soft enough to bend easily. Otherwise, as you say, if you try to bend it cold, it will probably crack.
>This is where butyl comes in handy! leave > the roll of tape in the sun or in a warm room for a day before use. It > will handle and form better when warm. You might do the same with the > antenna as well. If it is cold out, apply the tape inside while the > tape and plate are still warm before taking it outside for > installation. My thoughts exactly. I'm in San Diego, so it doesn't get too cold here. Its 76 right now and it is supposed to get to 85 today.
> The pass through is on the base plate in front of the antenna mounting > ears. It should be raised, and the black, rubber sealing thingy is a > really tight fit and should not leak. I figured out what it was when I removed the plate. The pass-through was stuffed full of caulking. I looked that the manual and that solved it.
>If paranoid you can use a tie > wrap around it to be sure. It shouldn't need any sealant. I only am concerned because that area can be totally underwater when my roof puddles.
>My > installation was original (wire across the roof to the corner) because > no one had ever drilled the hole in the roof for the pass through for > the lead. Mine was never drilled either.
> Originally you did not mention what the roof was made of. Since it is > aluminum it may need different treatment. I am not sure about using [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (Wagner/Milwaukee) with digital temperature control. The thing is > amazing! Made removing the stripes an easy task. I don't much care what it looks like up there. I'm sure the bondo would stick, but you do have a point about the UV stability. I could just paint it, or perhaps I will just patch it with a small piece of aluminum sheet and ProFlex.
I have considered painting the roof, but not with a rubber roof compound--perhaps with something like you used. For now, I'm not going to deal with it.
I used to use heat guns all the time in the lab. I may pick one up and give it a try.
> As far as the sagging air conditioner area, you may want to remove the > inside, ceiling portion of the unit (it comes off separately- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reinforce that area. It is a good time to examine the air conditioner > seal at this time as well. I have had the inside cover off several times. There is some plywood under the aluminum there, but I'm not sure how far it extends. There is also plywood under the roof rack area, but I can see the aluminum sagging between all the crossbeams elsewhere on the roof. Presumably this was caused by people walking on it. I always spread boards across the beams before walking on it.
I will look at it again, but I don't know how I could really enforce it without tearing out the entire ceiling and to do that, I would also have to remove the cabinets on each side. Lots of work. This is a very old RV and it has considerable water damage. The roof was (originally) flat--a very poor design. I mainly just bought it to see if I would like RVing. For now, I just plan to seal it up well enough to last me another couple of years, then I will probably upgrade.
> As my story relates, it can take a lot of hours to refurbish the roof, > and the best advice I can give is do it right! Reseal everything- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > done a lot more, but as it was, I ended up just beating the rains by > less than a week. I concur. My problem has been not knowing what products to use and how. I started over a year ago and I have been trying different caulks and methods. Now I am starting to get a handle on things, so I can proceed with the major work. As soon as my stainless steel screws arrive I am going to tear off all the rain gutter/side seal pieces and retape and caulk them. Then on to the smaller stuff. I have already done one window and one roof vent so I am comfortable with them. Last year I put some temporary caulking around a couple of leaking windows, now I am going to take them apart and retape with butyl tape and recaulk with ProFlex.
> The Pro-Flex states that it will stick even when applied to damp or > oily surfaces, so it should hold up pretty well. I applied it in areas [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > bit of mineral spirits. After that, don't touch it. It will look > "factory." Thanks. All good to know. It is always a good idea to clean a surface with a solvent for the adhesive or sealant you are going to use. The cleaner the surface the better the adhesion.
> Call and talk to their chemist- he was very friendly and would > probably like talking to you. I'll keep that in mind if I have more questions.
Thanks, James
Randy G. - 07 Nov 2006 01:48 GMT >My thoughts exactly. I'm in San Diego, so it doesn't get too cold here. Its >76 right now and it is supposed to get to 85 today. I am in Nor California and that's what allowed me to get my roof done just before the rains hit. If you ever get north of Sac, E me.
>I figured out what it was when I removed the plate. The pass-through was >stuffed full of caulking. I looked that the manual and that solved it. Exactly what they did with mine as well. Probably to avoid breeding mosquitos! ;-)
>I used to use heat guns all the time in the lab. I may pick one up and give >it a try. The one I mentioned from Lowe's had a $10 rebate on it when I got it...
>I will look at it again, but I don't know how I could really enforce it >without tearing out the entire ceiling and to do that, I would also have to >remove the cabinets on each side. Lots of work. This is a very old RV and it >has considerable water damage. The roof was (originally) flat--a very poor >design. I was wondering about that. Some of the early RVs were really very poorly designed, a trait shared by some present ones as well. I just saw another on a web sale, just like mine, that had the hold-down metal strips all covered with some sort of caulking, along with every other mount on the roof!
> I mainly just bought it to see if I would like RVing. For now, I >just plan to seal it up well enough to last me another couple of years, then >I will probably upgrade. It could also be a learning experience as well as a way to get a bit more out of it when you sell it. I would guess, based on what you have said, that it would be far easier to tear off the roof, layer plywood, and cover that with aluminum or rubber. far easier than trying to get to it from the inside. But it doesn't make sense to spend $1000 in materials and three weeks of your time on a $2500 RV..
Redd Foxx use to say, "Dodging a cat in a Cadillac makes no sense- it's bad math. The way I look at it, a $28,000 Cadillac goes over a 57 cent cat once with nothing left over." ;-) And I do like cats, I rescued three that live with us in the house, so no letters, please. ;-)
>I concur. My problem has been not knowing what products to use and how. I >started over a year ago and I have been trying different caulks and methods. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >couple of leaking windows, now I am going to take them apart and retape with >butyl tape and recaulk with ProFlex. My RV does not even have rain gutters but I have been contemplating adding them. The roof strips that hold it together do not even have any drain areas so the water has to get deep enough to go over them. Fortunately the strips are only about .5" tall, but it sure can reveal a leak in a hurry!
A friend has an older motor home that has one seam, right down the middle of the roof! The sides and half the roof are each one piece. Makes a lot more sense!
From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex
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