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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2006RV Batteries - 6V or 12V?
Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I thought they were deep cycle 12V. Who's right? Thanks Jethro > Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to > convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jethro You are both right. His 6V batteries are wired paralell so he gets 12V accross the leads going into the RV just as you do with 1 or more 12V batteries wire in series. IMHO, it makes little difference which you use AS LONG AS you get true deep cycle batteries that have the same capacity in the total battery bank. In 38 years of camping, I've used 12V batteries except for 1 change to 6V and went back to 12V. In case you need to know where to get true deep cycle batteries, West Marine is one source. If the battery says RV/Mariene deep cycle/cranking IT IS NOT a true deep cycle battery. West has both, plus regular cranking batteries. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=100 01&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&keyword=deep+cycle+battery&Ntt=deep+cycle+battery& N=0&y=15&x=18&storeId=10001&Ntk=All_2&ddkey=SiteSearch Last, the charging system used has a lot more to do with good battery power than the voltage of the battery. Tom J I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: >>His 6V batteries are wired paralell so he gets 12V >accross the leads going into the RV just as you do with 1 or more 12V >batteries wire in series. That's backwards. Two 6v in series = 12v, two 12v in series = 24v. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Will Sill >The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Actually I am dealing with one battery on the front of a travel trailer. Thanks Jethro >> I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Jethro Then you're dealing with a 12V battery.  SignatureSteve >>> I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Then you're dealing with a 12V battery. That's my thought. Thanks Jethro >>> Actually I am dealing with one battery on the front of a travel >>> trailer. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jethro You're welcome. More specifically, you're dealing with a deep cycle 12v battery. Be leary if a battery's specs mention "Cranking amps". If they do, chances are they aren't a true deep cycle. SignatureSteve >>>> I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jethro And the 6 volt that some of us use are usually Golf Cart Batteries which are a deep discharge type. I got mine at SAMS for about $50 each. For a site with good information of batteries and their maintenance try: http://www.batteryfaq.org > I see where "Tom J" <tomnews@earthlink.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's backwards. Two 6v in series = 12v, two 12v in series = > 24v. My senior moments are getting closer together. :-( Now that he says he only has 1 battery, there is no option - 12 volt. Tom J Tom J >IMHO, it makes little difference which you use AS LONG AS you get true >deep cycle batteries that have the same capacity in the total battery >bank. Yes and no. Deep cycle 6 volts batteries are made for powering golf carts and such and a far more sturdy and ruggedly built than most 12 volt deep cycles and they have more plate area and are designed for higher discharge and charge rates than most 12 v deep cycles too and are a better choice for RV usage (assuming that you use them in sets of two in series to get 12 volts that is). ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > Yes and no. Deep cycle 6 volts batteries are made for powering golf > carts and such and a far more sturdy and ruggedly built than most 12 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of two in series to get 12 volts that is). > ----------------- True, but a couple of caveats......... If one of your 6 volts dies, you've got to replace them both. Otherwise, the new one will only take the charge of the weaker one. Also, TRUE 12 Volt batteries are every bit as good as the golf cart ones, probably better, IMHO. However, they are hard to find and expensive. The cost/benefit favors the golf cart ones now, though...........(if you take care of them with a 3 stage charger). >Also, TRUE 12 Volt batteries are every bit as good as the golf cart ones, >probably better, IMHO. However, they are hard to find and expensive. I would disagree with this because all of the serious applications that use battery power usually use 6 volt batteries and for the same money you can get more capacity for same money with two 6 volt batteris becuase last I check you can by two 6 volt ones at Sams Club for about 90 bucks and they were rated at 275 minute capacity (about 115 amp hours) a 25 amp discharge rate (or a 25 amp load for 4 hrs and 35 minutes or with two of them in series, a approx 300 watt load for same period of time) at you will not come close to that for the same price using 12 voly deep cycles. Also remeber that capacity improves at a lower discharge rate so at a lighter load, you will get a lot more than 115 amp hours out of it with 150 to 175 or more amp hours being possible at a 10 amp discharge rate or less. (roughly a 120 watt load for 12 to 15 hours). If you feed this into a inverter and used high efficency 120 volt lights (that are become popular) you could light up your RV for a long time on a couple of 6 volts and far longer than would be possible with regular 12 volt incendesent bulbs even after inverter efficency losses and brighter too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > load for 12 to 15 hours). If you feed this into a inverter and used > high efficency 120 volt lights (that are become popular) you could [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com OK, like you said (and me) that right now the cost favors 6 volt. What is not true, is that high capacity stuff uses 6 V exclusively. Take your rechargeable drill, for example. Now they go to 24 V...why? because they draw down evenly, keeping the same power till empty. Also, yesterday, I saw a neat electric bike a guy was riding. He got it a Big Lots, he said, and it had a motorcyle size 24 V battery. It run 19 mph for 25 miles, overnight charge. $200 (Gotta get me one of these!). Also, the TRUE test of batt capacity goes to the Sailboat guys that sail the world. Capacity is literally life or death. They all use 12 V Marine deep cycles at $200 each......... But for us RV types, I agree. VV >Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to >convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Jethro Hi, If you have one battery it should be a deep cycle 12V. If you have room for two batteries you could have two 6V wired in series or two 12V wired in parallel. Batteries wired in series doubles the voltage while the current (Amps) stays the same. Batteries wired in parallel the voltage stays the same but the current (Amps) doubles. Generally the more Amps you have available the better. Batteries used for RV's should be true deep cycle batteries. Marine style batteries are not true deep cycle batteries but for occasional weekend use should be fine for a few years as long as they are cared for. Two batteries are better then one, especially if you do a lot of camping without hookups. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" >Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to >convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Jethro Don't waste your money on expensivive batteries, I buy the elcheapos at WM and trash then every couple of years. I never had one last less than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. funny you should say that the way you did. Wal-Mart batteries got the highest rating in consumer reports recently. The everstart is the one to have. SignatureSteve Barker >>Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to >>convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > at WM and trash then every couple of years. I never had one last less > than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. > funny you should say that the way you did. Wal-Mart batteries got the > highest rating in consumer reports recently. The everstart is the one to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> at WM and trash then every couple of years. I never had one last less >> than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. I agree. With all the charging and discharging, they won't last more than about THREE years if you are lucky. Investigate your power control module. If available, there is a charging monitor (IIRC, mine was the Charge Wizard from Intellipower) and it plugged right into a place on the power supply. This keeps your system from putting too much power into the batteries and overcharging, aka frying. They are cheap. If not, pay particular attention to the charging of them, or buy a module you can wire in. Also, test, or have tested your system to make sure all is working as it should. Your problem just may not be your batteries, but another problem that is causing your battery symptoms. But, no two ways about it, two sixes are FAR better in performance than two twelves. And you can go buy the top of the line, or cheapies. I think I paid about $60 per for mine, and they worked fine. Steve <bunch snipped> >But, no two ways about it, two sixes are FAR better in performance than two >twelves. And you can go buy the top of the line, or cheapies. I think I >paid about $60 per for mine, and they worked fine. > >Steve Hi, If you get true deep cycle 12 volt batteries they are as good as true deep cycle 6 volt batteries. Check out the Trojan battery site for more information www.trojanbatteries.com Look under product literature then product specifications. Two T105 batteries supply 12V and 225 amps at the 20 hour rating connected in series. Two 30XHS 12V supply 12V and 260 amps at the 20 hour rating connected in parallel. The difference is price. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" ><bunch snipped> >>But, no two ways about it, two sixes are FAR better in performance than two [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Take care and Happy Campin... Hi, The correct URL is www.trojanbattery.com SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > funny you should say that the way you did. Wal-Mart batteries got the > highest rating in consumer reports recently. The everstart is the one to > have. Consumer Reports is not the authoritative source that they like people to believe they are. I used to believe what I read in CR, but it rarely was correct. That said, my batteries are from Wal-Mart... > Don't waste your money on expensivive batteries, I buy the elcheapos > at WM and trash then every couple of years. I never had one last less > than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. FWIW our fiver still has the 8D battery that came in it in November, 1995. I haven't given it a real heavy load recently, but it seems to be at full strength. I keep the water level up to the proper level and it is maintained by an inverter/charger rather than a converter. Paul Johnson > FWIW our fiver still has the 8D battery that came in it in November, > 1995. You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have a clue what an 8D battery is!! Glad to see someone knows the difference. Tom J > You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are > just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have > a clue what an 8D battery is!! Glad to see someone knows the difference. And how about educating those of us who don't? SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >> You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are >> just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have >> a clue what an 8D battery is!! Glad to see someone knows the difference. > >And how about educating those of us who don't? Here's a Pic of one: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-70515121304670_1919_88796541 You can think of it as two six volt batteries in one large case to make a 12 volt battery of high capacity. From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex >> You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are >> just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have >> a clue what an 8D battery is!! Glad to see someone knows the difference. > >And how about educating those of us who don't? Hi, 8D is just a designation of a battery group. As is 24, 27, 30, 31, etc. these are all battery groups. There are at least 50 or more group designations. The group size will merely indicate the approximate exterior dimensions (including terminals) and voltage of the battery in question. It is not a measure of a battery capacity. If you know the group size you basically know how big an area you need to install the battery. An Group 8D will not fit in a vehicle that calls for a Group 24 or Group 27 battery. While all are 12V batteries the 8D is much larger physically. However in order to know the exact properties of a battery you have to check with the manufacturer for that particular battery. A Group 8D battery is considered a heavy duty deep cycle 12 volt battery. They are huge something like 20 3/4 inches long, 11 inches wide and 9 7/8 deep. They also are heavy :) around 160 lbs. and cost a lot :) A PVX-2580L Concorde 8D battery costs around $400.00. These are more often used in solar power applications for homes or businesses. If you Goggle for Battery Group you will find lots more information. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > A Group 8D battery is considered a heavy duty deep cycle 12 volt >battery. They are huge something like 20 3/4 inches long, 11 inches >wide and 9 7/8 deep. They also are heavy :) around 160 lbs. and cost a >lot :) A PVX-2580L Concorde 8D battery costs around $400.00. These are >more often used in solar power applications for homes or businesses. Occasional RORT poster Harry Everhart has an 8D AGM and a big inverter in his house for backup power. He can (and does) run his refrigerator, satellite system, HDTV, lights, and other stuff off it. Keeps it charged with a Battery Minder. He had it in his Class B but took it out before he sold it and replaced it with a standard-size RV house battery. It has a lot of power. GB in NC >> A Group 8D battery is considered a heavy duty deep cycle 12 volt >>battery. They are huge something like 20 3/4 inches long, 11 inches [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >GB in NC Hi GB, They are typically rated at 250 amps. A Trojan 30XHS 12V is typically rated at 130 amps. So the 8D's have lots of power. But two 30XHS wired in parallel will have 260 amps, cost less and weigh about 30 lbs less. 8D's are good for homes pretty big and heavy for *most* RV's, but they are used in some for sure especially in the bigger coaches. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" >>> You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are >>> just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Take care and Happy Campin... I thought the group number refereed to the number of plates per cell. > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >I thought the group number refereed to the number of plates per cell. > You can find a lot of information here. http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/ SignatureBILL P. Just Me and DOG 2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SWB, 2WD, Short Bed 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K,Slider. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual Battery Banks,one Gp.31 and two 6volt AGM Trojan Batteries,with selector for either bank or both at the same time. 1500watt Vector Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas >>>> You are blowing smoke at those that think those Wal-Mart batteries are >>>> just as good as true deep cycle batteries. I bet 99% of RVers don't have [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >I thought the group number refereed to the number of plates per cell. Hi Frank, If that were the case then a Group 31 battery would have more current capacity then a Group 8D, since the number of plates determine the current. A group 31 *typically* is rated at 130 amp while an 8D is *typically* rated at 250 amps at 20 hour discharge. Group size when referencing batteries refers to standard sizes for the dimensions of a battery. See http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/battery.html look under G The Group size just states the dimensions and voltage. If you want to find out the exact specifications you need to check with that particular battery manufacturer. In other words any Group size batteries will all be the same size physically but could possibly be different internally. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" >>Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to >>convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >at WM and trash then every couple of years. I never had one last less >than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. Actually the batteries from Walmart tend to be very good batteries at very inexpensive prices. Not a Walmart fan generally, but they do sell some very good deep cycle marine batteries that I have used for camper and electric trolling boat motors. They are as good or better than the much higher price than places like Sears. To reply to the original post. I am not a expert but I believe your friend is wrong about 6V. All I have used or noticed other using have been 12V. I see where Linkd@mindspring.com contributed: > I am not a expert but I believe your >friend is wrong about 6V. All I have used or noticed other using have >been 12V. You need to get out more. Many rv's are equipped with a pair (or pairs) of 6v batteries, arranged for 12v output. Our class B has 4 6v batteries. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >than 2 years, which is pretty normal for MF batteries. > Don't be to fast to trash WalMart batteries. I had one last five years, replaced it with the go24 that came in my 5er and put a gp31 in the 5er. But then I run a dual bank too. The long stay bank is two Trojan 6volt. SignatureBILL P. Just Me and DOG 2004, 2500 SLT Quad Cab, Dodge Ram, SWB, 2WD, Short Bed 5.9 HO Turbo Diesel, 48RE Auto Trans, Anti-Spin 3.73 Dif.Rhino Liner, Husky 16K,Slider. Voyager Controller 2005, 27RL Wildcat, DT/PC Wi-Fi. Dual Battery Banks,one Gp.31 and two 6volt AGM Trojan Batteries,with selector for either bank or both at the same time. 1500watt Vector Inverter Dual EU2000i Hondas >>>Settle this argument I am having with a friend. He is trying to >>>convince me that RV (trailer) batteries should be deep cycle 6V. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > replaced it with the go24 that came in my 5er and put a gp31 in the 5er. > But then I run a dual bank too. The long stay bank is two Trojan 6volt. Let me add my two cents worth to this thread and perhaps bust some bubbles at the same time. I agree with the fact that a good deep-cycle 12v might be preferable to two 6V in series given that all the batteries are quality and rating equivalent. It would depend upon your application and space limitations. One advantage a wheel chair/golf cart battery might have is most are gel cell not lead acid. Less danger of spills. An 8D group battery is the ultimate if you have the space to place it , the wherewithall to mount and dismount it, and the funds to purchase it. As far as brands go, there are only about three major battery makers in the US at this time; Delco, Exide, and Johnson Controls. These companies make the batteries for most of the retailers, auto companies, etc... The difference is the specifications each company requests from the given manufacturer. For example, Sears less expensive lines of batteries were made by Exide while their Gold batteries were made by Johnson Controls. Currently, so I have heard, all of the Sears batteries are now made by Johnson Controls. Just different specs for the different price ranges. Just my two cents worth... DaveD I see where "Dave and Trudy" <ddodson@acsalaska.net> contributed: > . . . .One advantage a wheel chair/golf cart battery might have is >most are gel cell not lead acid. Less danger of spills. Bad information. Most golf-car batteries are lead acid type. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >I see where "Dave and Trudy" <ddodson@acsalaska.net> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Maybe in your world but over a period of four years I sold about 90 percent gel cell batteries for wheel chairs and golf carts. So that is in NO way bad information. Best be sure of your information before you start contradicting other posters. OH! I forgot with whom I was speaking. The Curmudgeon of Fantasy Land. DaveD ... As far as brands go, > there are only about three major battery makers in the US at this time; > Delco, Exide, and Johnson Controls. These companies make the batteries for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > DaveD True about few Co's that actually make automotive LA batteries. Johnson Controls has a factory close by and except for the batteries I see with the EXIDE name on them, everywhere I go if I look closely, on most battery brands, I can find a statement something like "Made by Johnson Controls for X". Very likely the brand battery you buy where you live will have been made in different factory and possibly by an different Co somewhere else in the country. Mickey |
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