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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2006batteries
OK people, I always take my batts out for the winter, store them downstairs. My friend keeps his in his camper, with the camper plugged in, therefore keeping charge I guess. He's claims same batts for 3 years, no problems. Am I working too hard?? Dave Lee > OK people, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dave Lee Yes. Treat them like the expense they are, sort of like gasoline or diesel. Get them at Wal*Mart when needed and quit worrying. It costs me $75 to $100 per day for gas to travel in the RV, so I am supposed to worry about a new battery now and then? John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee >OK people, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Dave Lee Hi, If you can keep them on a trickle charger you should not have to take them out. Or if you can put them on a charger every few weeks for a few hours.. If they freeze they are most likely garbage though. Whatever is easiest and cheapest I guess. Take care and Happy Campin...  SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > OK people, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dave Lee What's the winter time temps where you live? Fully charged LA battery freeze point when fully charged is quite a bit below 0°F. Will the RV be plugged-in or not? If not plugged-in, fully charged and NO draw on the battery, they'll do just fine over the winter. Hard to find a modern RV that doesn't have some current draw when you think everything is shut off. If plugged-in and the converter isn't putting out more than 13.8V then you can leave it this way all winter without an worry of overcharging. Three yrs service from a set of batteries isn't that great. Mickey > OK people, > > I always take my batts out for the winter, store them downstairs. My > friend keeps his in his camper, with the camper plugged in, therefore > keeping charge I guess. He's claims same batts for 3 years, no > problems. Am I working too hard?? I take mine out and store them in my basement in the winter. Here in Minnesota where winter temps can hit -40 degrees f and colder, it's cheap insurance. The few minutes it takes to carry your batteries into warm storage certainly isn't "working too hard" in my opinion. >> OK people, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The few minutes it takes to carry your batteries into warm storage certainly > isn't "working too hard" in my opinion. I don't take batteries out of anything in the winter. I just put them on a Battery Tender Plus and have never had a problem. http://www.mawonline.com/batteryt.htm SignatureSteve >I don't take batteries out of anything in the winter. I just >put them on a Battery Tender Plus and have never had a problem. I agree, no need to remove them at all but no real "must have" need for a battery tender either. You might charge them a few times in winter but batteries actually stor better and age less when stored in the cold. As far as freezing, a dead battery will freeze around 5 to 10 degrees or so and even a half charged one will never freeze unless you see temp of about 35 to 40 below and colder a lot for extended periods of time.. Charging if not done properly (like with a constant charge) can actually shorten there life some. I have a old JD tractor that has a 6 volt system and it may set for months without running and all winter sometimes too in the barn, I never take battery out and it lasts 6 to 7 years or more before it gets weak. . If the batteries fully discharge just sitting there disconnected in month or two it is time for new batteries because they have high internal leakage and a charger just prolongs the inevetable. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> I don't take batteries out of anything in the winter. I just >> put them on a Battery Tender Plus and have never had a problem. > > I agree, no need to remove them at all but no real "must have" need > for a battery tender either. <snip> I would agree except that a lot of things that I've had from motorcycles, Vettes, and trailers all seem to drain the batteries even when you think it shouldn't. That's why I just throw a BTP on anything and don't even think about them again until spring. SignatureSteve >I would agree except that a lot of things that I've had from >motorcycles, Vettes, and trailers all seem to drain the >batteries even when you think it shouldn't. That's why I >just throw a BTP on anything and don't even think about them >again until spring. I am not in complete disagreement but in a RVm there should be no load on battery if everything is shut down and even if there is a clock or in a car, it should easily stay up for 3 months or more before a charge is needed. I have a lod Jeep truck in barn and I can let it sit 3 months or more and it will still crank to fire up. After about 6 months it generally needs a charge to start. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> I would agree except that a lot of things that I've had from >> motorcycles, Vettes, and trailers all seem to drain the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com It is amazing how much current some of those CO detectors draw. I just disconnect on the battery terminals at the end of the season. When I was a kid in So. Dak, temps were -40 on more than one occasion. My 54 Merc had a 6V batt (IIRC) and I NEVER garaged the beast. Started every day. Dean >> OK people, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >The few minutes it takes to carry your batteries into warm storage certainly >isn't "working too hard" in my opinion. >When I was a kid in So. Dak, temps were -40 on more than one occasion. >My 54 Merc had a 6V batt (IIRC) and I NEVER garaged the beast. Started >every day. Speaking of which the "veiw" has long been than batteries last longer on gneterator than with altenator because the spikey output voltage and current at a lower overall average charge rate from a generator is easier on a battery than a altenator is. THose old cars usually had very heavy wiring between battery and starter to make best use of power in battery to crank motor unlike most newer ones. Also the higher average discharge curent in them during startup (vs 12v) "warms" the battery quicker internally to boost output in extremely cold weather. My old 6v JD will crank up fine and start at minus 20 even after setting for a few weeks. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> When I was a kid in So. Dak, temps were -40 on more than one occasion. >> My 54 Merc had a 6V batt (IIRC) and I NEVER garaged the beast. Started [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Gee, my view was exactly the opposite. I thought the 12 volt battery was the greatest thing since Sliced Bread. The 12 volt spun the starter a lot better than 6 volt. Another thing was that the 12 ignition system was the same as the 6 volt one but it had a ballast resistor for normal running. The resistor was bypassed for starting to give a better spark. I think the starter motor was basically the same on both. The main difference was that it was drawing about twice the current and would not crank as long with the 12 volt. Born and raised in MN. >Gee, my view was exactly the opposite. I thought the 12 volt battery >was the greatest thing since Sliced Bread. The 12 volt spun the starter [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >difference was that it was drawing about twice the current and would not >crank as long with the 12 volt. I was not saying that I thought 6V was better. You misread what I was trying to say. Main reason they went from 6v to 12 was less current required for same amount of wattage which means lighter wiring needs overall. Today we are kinda getting to the point that we need to make another jump to 24 or 28v standard because cars are getting so power hungry current wise but I do not see that happening because 12 volt is so deeply entrenched.(aviation has long used 28v and some offroad equipment is 24 volt) On the starters there may be a few that are basicaly or almost the same but they are made differently. If a 6V starter drew say ruffly 600 amp or about 3000 watts when you factor in voltage drop if you applid 12 volts to the same motor with same resistance it woudl draw about 4 times as much powerin a locked rotor phase (twice the current at twice the voilatage) and 2 to 3x more while cranking (depending on cranking speed as series motors draw less current as RPM increases) A trick used on a lot of old cars they have been restored today it to use a 8 volt battery with the proper regulator as it give a noticable boost in starting power without over stressing starter too badly. They did this a lot on some old 6 volt tractors too but sometime they would use a 8v battery and not change or adjust regulator and wonder why it did not work as planned. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > we need to make another jump to 24 or 28v standard I agree we need to make "a jump" but I think a higher voltage would be better, if implementing an incredibly ** H U G E **, industry-wide changeover. I read/heard that it will be 42VDC, when it happens. The electrical ARRAY, between TWO (count 'em, 2) fuse panels in my pickup is truly awesome. I always thought that a mere $5US fuse would have my wonder wagon at the side of the road. I'm sure it will someday but the first occurrence of that was a dying Crankshaft Position Sensor, fer criminey sake! An increase in voltage would likely reduce the SIZE of the electrical protection and distribution panel(s), perhaps requiring only one for my truck. Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 >I agree we need to make "a jump" but I think a higher voltage would be better, >if implementing an incredibly ** H U G E **, industry-wide changeover. > >I read/heard that it will be 42VDC, when it happens. You could be correct here because I have heard loose mention of 42 VDC too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>I agree we need to make "a jump" but I think a higher voltage would be >>better, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > too. > ----------------- That seems reasonable seeing that the electric and hybrids use that voltage or near it. Leanne >That seems reasonable seeing that the electric and hybrids use that voltage >or near it. Yes so this may e a clue of things to come. I have seen higher voltages used in some hybrid/electric cars though. I beleive the GM hybrid P/U that is not selling well uses 42 volts too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >TheSnoMan.com > The change over from 6 to 12 with a few at 8 volts DC was no problem and I cannot see how it would be a problem to go higher. I can remember back when all car batteries were 6vdc. There are still some of the old Ford tractors with 6volts and generators rather than alternators. SignatureCan't we all just get along? BILL P. Just Me & DOG -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Born and raised in MN. Yea, another member from the great state of Mn. Born and raised, frozen and thawed. DH >When I was a kid in So. Dak, temps were -40 on more than one occasion. >My 54 Merc had a 6V batt (IIRC) and I NEVER garaged the beast. Started [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>The few minutes it takes to carry your batteries into warm storage certainly >>isn't "working too hard" in my opinion. Hi, Yabut, I bet your 54 Merc didn't have the electronics like the 06's do, that draw power even when the key is off...RV's are even worse then cars in that regard and will take the house batteries down pretty quickly if you don't either make sure EVERYTHING is off or disconnect the batteries. BTDT as they say :) Four frozen batteries in a little less then 3 weeks in temps only in the teens because of one item I forgot about...I now use solar cells and charge controller to keep the batteries happy. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > OK people, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dave Lee I have always left mine outside. The only way I would remove them is if they were stored in a remote area where I could not keep them charged. Temp here often gets below 0F. I just turn on the charger about every couple months. Cold weather is better for them as long as they are fully charged. From the following site: State Freeze Point of Charge 100% -67F 75% -35F 50% -10F 25% 5F 0% 20F And don't use a cheap trickle charger. http:www.batteryfaq.org >daveleejd@cox.net wrote: >OK people, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Dave Lee When we lived in Anchorage, we had a small travel trailer. It sat outside all year, plugged in to a 15 amp circuit. The battery was just fine when we were able to get it out of the driveway in May or June. SignatureDD >I always take my batts out for the winter, store them downstairs. My >friend keeps his in his camper, with the camper plugged in, therefore >keeping charge I guess. He's claims same batts for 3 years, no >problems. Am I working too hard?? If yer friend can only boast of 3 years on the same batteries, he obviously doesn't posses the remotest clue as to what he's doing! With a mere 8+ years on the same coach batteries, still going hot and heavy, our experience is not at all disimilar to the majority of RVers. No useful purpose can be served by storing your batteries to a warmer environment for the winter! Heat is an enemy. For every 20 degree F increase in storage temperature; the longivity of your battteies are cut in half. Warm is bad; cold is better. >>I always take my batts out for the winter, store them downstairs. My >>friend keeps his in his camper, with the camper plugged in, therefore [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > heavy, our experience is not at all disimilar to the majority of > RVers. ... Amen to that. The 8D in our fiver is still good at 11 years- always plugged in to an inverter/charger. I even got 10 years on the OEM battery in my Gravely tractor. Paul Johnson > If yer friend can only boast of 3 years on the same batteries, he > obviously doesn't posses the remotest clue as to what he's doing! As you've mentioned heat is the enemy. I average about 3-4 years on a decent battery. I live where summer temps of 110F are common. >As you've mentioned heat is the enemy. I average about 3-4 years on a >decent battery. I live where summer temps of 110F are common. This is true but so in discharge cycles. Batteries have a limited amount of deep discharge cycels in them before they fail and your batteries will not last as longe if you pull them down a lot vs just discharging 50% or less of capacity between charges. Rate of discharge play a roll too. If you use frequent high discharge rates, it shortens lifespan as well. One last thing, though it is rarely practical sometimes, slow or low charge rates extend life too and limit extended top off charges with charger that do not shut off because this increase the likelyhood of sulfation forming on plates with increase internal resistance during discharge and reduces capacity due to some of the converted chemical energy in battery being converted to heat internally rather than being applied to external load. Generally the more batteries you have the better because it reduces the discharge load per battery at any given load vs a single battery and my favorites are 6 volt deep cycles designed for golf carts which are very sturdy and when used in pairs of 2 in series for 12 vilts they provide and good power source with good tolerance to high discharge rates too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >If yer friend can only boast of 3 years on the same batteries, he >obviously doesn't posses the remotest clue as to what he's doing! >cut in half. > >Warm is bad; cold is better. All I meant was he's had the camper for 3 years so far, not a total of 3 years. |
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