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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 20068.1 chevy
Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? > Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? I have that engine in my '02 with 3.76 gears and the "required option" Allison automatic transmission. I use it to drive 7.2 miles to work and back, 5-6 days per week. I am so satisfied with this vehicle that I still do NOT regret that I didn't get the diesel. I would use this same drive train, ordering it with the @$$ end at 4.10, in a minute, to tow the fiver you describe. At the upper end of that, I would even consider a dually. If I were retired, I would get the diesel. The Vortec 8100 fuel consumption is as I expected: Truly dismal. I get 10-11 MPG combined city/highway and 7-8 MPG when towing at 65 MPH. The best it ever got was ~12. As you can imagine, I don't do much long hauling with this thing without the camping trailer. My wife's Corolla is much more attractive for those trips. The short box provides for a 26-gallon fuel tank while my 8-ft box has a 34. Even with the extended cab, I am thankful that I got the long box for its utility and, more importantly, the larger gas tank beneath. The biggest problem I have had with this truck, bought new in the fall of 2001, was the slow, annoying death of the Crankshaft Position Sensor. I spent upwards of $700 between two Mr.GoodWrench centers before they found the right fix. I'd still get the truck. Good luck!  Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 >The biggest problem I have had with this truck, bought new in the fall of >2001, was the slow, annoying death of the Crankshaft Position Sensor. I spent >upwards of $700 between two Mr.GoodWrench centers before they found the right >fix. I'd still get the truck. Good luck! Thats a same given that it is a easy item to replace and to diagnois too. Dealer must not have been too sharp. If you use a realtime scanner that shows actualy timing data and not codes it will show up right awy as a eraticic signal. RCM will not code it unless it fails to send some kind of signal so even a incorrect one is considered good for ECM error codes. THe reason for this is because timing can shirt up to 80 degrees in normal operation so it does not code if it is erratic. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > right > fix. I'd still get the truck. Good luck! Have to agree w/ the above poster. I have the 8.1L and 4.10 rear in an '02 Crew Cab long box 4x4. She's long and doesn't have a great turning radius by any means, but it'll tow all day long! We have a 32' single slide 5'er w/ a standup bedroom in roughly the 10-11K lbs. range. Goes through the mountains w/out issue. I also had the crank position sensor issue under 36K miles, but out of warranty by time. :-( I researched it enough to know that had to be the issue and replaced it. No more failures after that! The long box is a must as a short box truck is just a PITA after you have a toolchest and fifth-wheel hitch in it. No room for much of anything else beyond that. My MPGs are similar, but have never broken the 12 MPG unloaded at highway speeds. My Dad's 2x4 has done it, but the extra weight of the crew cab and 4x4 is just enough to keep me under it. Towing can be all over the board in MPGs! If you want to play, you have to pay! :-) The newer Allison would be nice to have with six speeds and being able to lock out the OD. On the '02 you have to play the accelerator to stay in fourth, but in '03 they added an OD lockout option. >>> Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >lock out the OD. On the '02 you have to play the accelerator to stay in >fourth, but in '03 they added an OD lockout option. There is no OD lockout. It's a tow/haul mode which alters the shift points and transmission pressure. But there is not an OD lockout. >>>> Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? >>> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > There is no OD lockout. It's a tow/haul mode which alters the shift > points and transmission pressure. But there is not an OD lockout. The Allison 6 speed doesn't have actually have an OD 'lockout'. It does have an 'M' position where you use an up/down switch to set the highest gear to be used. That can be any of the 6 gears. My experience, with the Duramax, has been that there is no need to specify a gear lower than 6th (2nd OD) even when towing heavy loads except perhaps for long/steep downhills. Ron >My experience, with the Duramax, has been that there is no need to specify a >gear lower than 6th (2nd OD) even when towing heavy loads except perhaps for >long/steep downhills. I think this is more hormones than anything because why max a engine out on a grade just because you can??? That what gears are for you use them time lighten the torque load on engine rather than pull it for all it is worth. I suspect you also beleive that a engine and tranny they is pulled to the max a lot last just as long as one that someone takes the time to downshift and easy the strain on one at times. I never pull a engine to max on a grade no matter what kind it is and never will. To suggest that it is fine and SOP to climn hills towing with a .61 OD is really kinda a foolish. One more thing a 400HP OTR rig will have a 900 or 1000 CU inch plus engine to make that power and a lower boost too and if the concept and durabilty of a Dmax or PS or CTD was that great and viable they would save a lot of weight and not waste time with 1000 cu inch motors. Though some think the have the same power and durabilty under extreme loads as a OTR rig with their diesel P/U when they really do not especail when the chip them. . ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > I think this is more hormones than anything because why max a engine > out on a grade just because you can??? That what gears are for you use [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > same power and durabilty under extreme loads as a OTR rig with their > diesel P/U when they really do not especail when the chip them. . You have to start using your spell checker SnoMan... > You have to start using your spell checker SnoMan... And his <enter> key. >> You have to start using your spell checker SnoMan... >And his <enter> key. Good points, both. I often wonder if certain folks talk like they write here. If so, I don't know how anybody can follow a conversation with some of them.... GB in NC >>> You have to start using your spell checker SnoMan... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >GB in NC Oh oh. You will be assaulted by the, "well you understood it well enough to respond, DIDN'T YOU?" I am amazed at the piss poor spelling abilities of Americans today. And the biggest offenders are the most militant in their defense. It seems to be a 'badge of pride' to be viewed as an idiot. BTW, I make spelling misteaks on occasion but I at least TRY to use all tools to avoid coming off that way Fire away! >>I often wonder if certain folks talk like they write here. If so, I >>don't know how anybody can follow a conversation with some of them.... >> >>GB in NC >Oh oh. You will be assaulted by the, "well you understood it well >enough to respond, DIDN'T YOU?" LOL. I've been assaulted here on far weaker grounds than that. >I am amazed at the piss poor spelling abilities of Americans today. >And the biggest offenders are the most militant in their defense. It >seems to be a 'badge of pride' to be viewed as an idiot. BTW, I make >spelling misteaks on occasion but I at least TRY to use all tools to >avoid coming off that way What cracks me up is how many errors are made by spell checkers. People make a typo and then blindly accept whatever the spelling checker reccomends, without bothering to make sure it's the word they really meant to use. Several years ago here a guy (I've forgotten who) wrote a post in which he ranted about "misquotes." Turns out he meant to say "mosquitoes" (or alternatively, "mosquitos" <g>), but he misspelled it. His spellchecker corrected it to "misquotes," and he took its word for it. I never use a spelling checker. But then, I have the spelling gene (thanks, Mom and Dad!) and don't need one. I do occasionally make a typo -- I didn't say I'm a perfect typist, although I'm damned good at that too <g> -- but I almost never misspell anything. (Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) GB in NC > (Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) > > GB in NC "reccomends" >(Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) > >GB in NC I recommend you get you're ducks in a row or you might make another mistake! Don M >> (Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Don M Interestingly I ran my spell checker and it found GBinNC and didn't find reccommends. Now this one does find it in this reply. Why is that? John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee >>> (Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee Not exactly sure what you mean. In an earlier post, someone said "misteak" to refer to an error. GB, tongue-in-cheek, reccomended something. I replied, intentionally using "you're" instead of "your." Like GB, I didn't use a spell checker. Don > Interestingly I ran my spell checker and it found GBinNC and didn't find > reccommends. Now this one does find it in this reply. Why is that? It doesn't check the spelling in the quote. Quoted text shouldn't be altered unless you deliberately alter it...maybe not even then. >Interestingly I ran my spell checker and it found GBinNC Hey! Doncha be spell-checking my name now, y'hear <g>? GB in NC > I never use a spelling checker. But then, I have the spelling gene > (thanks, Mom and Dad!) and don't need one. I do occasionally make a typo > -- I didn't say I'm a perfect typist, although I'm damned good at that > too <g> -- but I almost never misspell anything. The spelling gene is dominant. My mother has it, and my father has the misspelling gene. I have the spelling gene. > (Now go back and find the deliberately misspelled word in this post.) > reccomends, without bothering to make sure it's the word they really Bingo. >> I never use a spelling checker. But then, I have the spelling gene >> (thanks, Mom and Dad!) and don't need one. I do occasionally make a typo [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Bingo. I've noticed your careful writing and spelling. Seriously. That's one of the reasons I always read your posts. There are a number of people here whose writing is so consistently well done that I can often recognize by just glancing at the post. It just looks better, to my eye. I won't try to name names, since I'm sure I'd leave somebody out. But they probably know who they are. And there are also a number people here who -- well, you know <g>.... GB in NC > I've noticed your careful writing and spelling. Seriously. That's one of > the reasons I always read your posts. Thanks! It's good to know somebody else appreciates it. Have you noticed my reduced comma usage lately? Recently, I read one of my messages and found it terribly full of improper commas. Since then I've been trying to use them sparingly. I don't know why I never learned the proper rules for comma usage. It's weird; although I know that the reason for my decent spelling and grammar is the large quantity of books I read when I was little, and although I can't remember much of anything I was taught in school, I somehow manage to remember lots of grammar rules. However, the only one that I remember for commas is incorrect. > There are a number of people here whose writing is so consistently well > done that I can often recognize by just glancing at the post. It just > looks better, to my eye. I won't try to name names, since I'm sure I'd > leave somebody out. But they probably know who they are. It certainly does make a post easier to read. > And there are also a number people here who -- well, you know <g>.... In that context, I imagine that "a number" means "a very large number". <G> >> I've noticed your careful writing and spelling. Seriously. That's one of >> the reasons I always read your posts. > Thanks! It's good to know somebody else appreciates it. Hehehehe! You beat me to it! [chuckling] Signature:) JR >> I've noticed your careful writing and spelling. Seriously. That's one of >> the reasons I always read your posts. >Thanks! It's good to know somebody else appreciates it. >I don't know why I never learned the proper rules for comma usage. It's >weird; although I know that the reason for my decent spelling and >grammar is the large quantity of books I read when I was little, and >although I can't remember much of anything I was taught in school, I >somehow manage to remember lots of grammar rules. However, the only one >that I remember for commas is incorrect. I seldom remember the actual "rules." I just know when punctuation is used correctly. I didn't really pay much attention to the details in grammar school. And I've continued to learn from my own mistakes and those of others -- and from being corrected on occasion. >> There are a number of people here whose writing is so consistently well >> done that I can often recognize by just glancing at the post. It just >> looks better, to my eye. I won't try to name names, since I'm sure I'd >> leave somebody out. But they probably know who they are. >It certainly does make a post easier to read. And yet, so many people don't consider good writing important. When one's only presentation to others is the words one writes -- not only the context, but the clarity of the writing -- it makes an unavoidable statement about the writer. There's nothing wrong with using slang or colloquialisms -- especially in a place such as this, which is in effect a tangle of disjointed conversations and comments -- but the rules are still there. >> And there are also a number people here who -- well, you know <g>.... >In that context, I imagine that "a number" means "a very large number". <G> LOL. You said that -- I didn't. GB in NC > I seldom remember the actual "rules." I just know when punctuation is > used correctly. I didn't really pay much attention to the details in > grammar school. And I've continued to learn from my own mistakes and > those of others -- and from being corrected on occasion. I learn best when corrected *tactfully*. Of course, those are usually well-written. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL '00 Coleman Mesa/'05 Durango Hemi >I learn best when corrected *tactfully*. Of course, those are usually >well-written. Ditto here. And then there's the immeasurable amusement of having someone tell me I "mispelled" something. GB in NC > And then there's the immeasurable amusement of having someone tell me I > "mispelled" something. Well, it is always possible that you've pelled something incorrectly... > What cracks me up is how many errors are made by spell checkers. People > make a typo and then blindly accept whatever the spelling checker > reccomends, without bothering to make sure it's the word they really > meant to use. I use the "personalized" Google homepage, with 3 tabbed pages. They have a fairly new "module" called Whitesmoke" - http://www.whitesmoke.com/ From the home page- "Enriches your text with a relevant combination of adjectives and adverbs" and "Corrects your grammar (supports more than 65,000 errors)" Snerk. (I owe you several emails ;)). SignatureChris Bryant http://bryantrv.com > seems to be a 'badge of pride' to be viewed as an idiot. BTW, I make > spelling misteaks on occasion but I at least TRY to use all tools to > avoid coming off that way > > Fire away! Mmmm...steaks.... *drool* >> seems to be a 'badge of pride' to be viewed as an idiot. BTW, I make >> spelling misteaks on occasion but I at least TRY to use all tools to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mmmm...steaks.... *drool* You're obviously confused <g>. Dean tole you the steaks was his'n. Did'n he "say" "mi-steaks" <vbg>. Hugh >> seems to be a 'badge of pride' to be viewed as an idiot. BTW, I make >> spelling misteaks on occasion but I at least TRY to use all tools to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Mmmm...steaks.... *drool* Rick, you are a drooler? I should have guessed! 8^o Dean >> You have to start using your spell checker SnoMan... > >And his <enter> key. And someone's else's brain. His is faulty, along with 99% of his information. >>My experience, with the Duramax, has been that there is no need to specify >>a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Lets consider another point. With the Duramax and Allison their computers communicate to determine the proper gear for the conditions. I almost always tow using cruise control and let the engine and transmission computers decide which gear is best for the current conditions. You are welcome to run your rig however you want, but I'll the computers decide what gear and rpm is best for engine/transmission stress, fuel economy, etc. As far as 'chip them', I don't need an after market 'chip', it performs fine the way it came from GM. Ron > With the Duramax and Allison their computers > communicate to determine the proper gear for the conditions. I almost > always tow using cruise control and let the engine and transmission > computers decide which gear is best for the current conditions. I was told to do that by the dealer, Trailer Life magazine and the Allison web site. My 5-speed Allison alone is "worth the price of admission". They now come as a six speed. It's truly an awesome transmission. > I don't need an after market 'chip', it performs fine > the way it came from GM. With the exception of the topper, I am a box stock guy, too. I don't blame those that soup-up their pickups, it's just not for me. I did that with a '68 Chevelle and, at that time, got my fill of auto mechanics. It hasn't been one of my interests for a long time. Photography, my Mac, grandchildren and camping occupy my spare time. Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > In article <4sb9b6Fupve1U1@mid.individual.net>, "Ron Recer" > <ron48@aol.com> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > of my interests for a long time. Photography, my Mac, grandchildren and > camping occupy my spare time. Yes, my '06 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab Long Bed 4x4 Dually Duramax HO and Allison 6 Speed seem more than sufficient to tow our 35' 5er and all my photo equipment! <g> Ron <<SNIPPED CONTENT> > There is no OD lockout. It's a tow/haul mode which alters the shift > points and transmission pressure. But there is not an OD lockout. Hmmmm, have to disagree there. My brother's '03 8.1L/Allison has a selector to avoid going into OD. It stops at 4th. Yes, they all have the tow/haul mode selector as well as does my '02. It will KILL gas mileage. About the only time I use that is in stop and go traffic to keep from shifting as much. Once the roll begins to speed again, off it goes! ><<SNIPPED CONTENT> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >only time I use that is in stop and go traffic to keep from shifting as >much. Once the roll begins to speed again, off it goes! That's not a OD lockout, that's merely a shift option. That's like leaving a manual shifter in third gear. >>Hmmmm, have to disagree there. My brother's '03 8.1L/Allison has a selector >>to avoid going into OD. It stops at 4th. Yes, they all have the tow/haul >>mode selector as well as does my '02. It will KILL gas mileage. About the >>only time I use that is in stop and go traffic to keep from shifting as >>much. Once the roll begins to speed again, off it goes! BTW, I don't know about with the diesel and the Allison, but in my truck the Tow/Haul button is great for hard driving while unloaded. The same shift points that make towing better, also make unencumbered hurrying better too. It's good in stop-and-go traffic, as it keeps as much power available as possible for jumping into the next lane. It's good on rural two-lanes for difficult passing. It's good on empty roads for improved acceleration. Of course, outside of those situations, the comfort and economy of normal mode is appreciated. > That's not a OD lockout, that's merely a shift option. That's like > leaving a manual shifter in third gear. Again, I can't speak for the diesel/Allison combo, but I know that "3" on my truck (GM 5.3l gas, 4 speed auto) is no different than if it was called "OD Off". When in "3", it will use first and second gears just as it would when in "[D]", but it never goes into overdrive. "Tow/Haul" is effective when in "3", too. In "2" or "1" it will use only the selected gear (until you go too fast). >><<SNIPPED CONTENT> >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > That's not a OD lockout, that's merely a shift option. That's like > leaving a manual shifter in third gear. The point being made here is you CAN set it to go 1 through 4 and stay out of OD in '03 models and up! Can't do that on the '02 setup. Staying in 3 on an Allison will pretty much keep you running below 55 - 60 MPH....AND suck gas like nobody's business! Yes, using tow/haul will allow you more gitty'up due to hanging in lower gears longer, but at the cost of gas to play the game. It will also allow the tranny to hold you back quicker when going down a grade. Great for the mountains. > The point being made here is you CAN set it to go 1 through 4 and stay out > of OD in '03 models and up! Can't do that on the '02 setup. Staying in 3 on > an Allison will pretty much keep you running below 55 - 60 MPH....AND suck > gas like nobody's business! ...and that's saying something, since the 8.1 does that solo! > Yes, using tow/haul will allow you more gitty'up > due to hanging in lower gears longer, but at the cost of gas to play the > game. It will also allow the tranny to hold you back quicker when going down > a grade. Great for the mountains. More important (to me) than altered shift patterns, engaging Tow/Haul forces the torque converter to lock. As you said, it's great for mountains. Descending the Thompson canyon road from Estes Park, Colorado, I probably used the service (and TT) brakes fewer than a half-dozen times. The engine compression did the rest. Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? I met an individual that was towing a 30' plus Montana with three slides with his Chevrolet 2500HD with the 8.1 engine. He was very happy with the Chevy. 13,000 to 15,000 is a lot of weight, I'm not sure the Montana weighed that much...Personally, I'd think any one ton pickup with the diesel option towing this rig would right on the line of safety. If I were the owner of a 15,000 pound 5th wheel, I'd be shopping for a medium duty truck. It's not so much the motor as the design of the vehicle. Don't choose a small truck with a big motor. The 8.1 has plenty of torque for pulling mountain grades. I am totally satisfied with it in my 28 foot motorhome. > Any one using a 8.1L to tow a 13-15000 lb. 5th wheel? |
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