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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / December 2006

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Onan Generator Problem

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RickP - 22 Nov 2006 14:40 GMT
I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
Camping World in Ft. Myers, FL 2-1/2 weeks ago and they still have not
identified the problem. I am up to 6 hours on diagnostics and no
answers. The tech told me there 18 different items to troubleshoot.  I
have had to call them every couple of days to get updates.  Does it
take isat long to troubleshoot?  In the future I plan to do more
truobleshooting on my own.  I just don't want to be ripped off.
Jerryd(fl) - 22 Nov 2006 15:17 GMT
>I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator stops
>when you after releasing switch.<<<

Do you mean it runs until you release the starter switch ?
Maybe it's just the switch.
I have had that happen a few time on cars.

Signature

JerryD(FL)

RAM³ - 22 Nov 2006 16:11 GMT
>I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> take isat long to troubleshoot?  In the future I plan to do more
> truobleshooting on my own.  I just don't want to be ripped off.

Get your rig back - they're either overloaded or incompetent.

Take it to these folks:
http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp?action=serviceCentreDet
ails&dealerseqid=24048

(They're in Orlando)

I'd suggest getting an appointment for a routine oil/filter change to lock
in the time.

FWIW, Monday morning I took mine into Houston's Cummins/Onan Distributor
[Cummins Southern Plains] with a similar situation and was out within a few
hours.

It helps to deal with specialists! <G>
Hustlin' Hank - 22 Nov 2006 20:03 GMT
> I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> stops when you after releasing switch. I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> take isat long to troubleshoot? In the future I plan to do more
> truobleshooting on my own. I just don't want to be ripped off.

If it takes them 6 hours and they still haven't found the problem and
you are paying by the amount of hours, then you are getting ripped off.
Go pick it up and take it to an authorized generator dealer.

Hank
Alan Robinson - 23 Nov 2006 04:08 GMT
>I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> take isat long to troubleshoot?  In the future I plan to do more
> truobleshooting on my own.  I just don't want to be ripped off.

It would help to know WHICH Onan generator you have - but in general, the
symptoms you describe are caused by one of three things:

   low oil pressure, bad oil pressure switch, bad wiring from switch to
controls

   stop signal (ground) from remote switch, or the wiring to the switch

   generator not generating, thus not switching to 'run' mode

Figuring out if one of these is the cause should take no more than 1/2 hour.
Once isolated to one of these, no more than another hour to identify the
specific problem - and if it's not one of these, it's in the controls, which
is a MAX of another hour troubleshooting (15 minutes if your set uses a
control circuit board). So, a maximum of 1 1/2 hours troubleshooting to
identify what's causing your problem. (How long to fix from that point
depends on what the cause is).

You are being ripped off - it sounds like the tech doesn't even have the
Onan service manual, because the manuals for sets of that era have very
good, step-by-step troubleshooting instructions.

If you let me know what the model and spec of the genset is, I'll be glad to
give you instructions on determining and fixing what the problem is - or you
could go to the Onan site http://www.funroads.com and order the service
manual for your set. If you're not comfortable doing your own work, the
dealer locator shows Cummins/Onan in Fort Myers - they should be able to
diagnose it quickly <g>.

Alan
Randy G. - 23 Nov 2006 06:32 GMT
>>I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
>> stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>    generator not generating, thus not switching to 'run' mode

And without a more detailed description of the exact nature of the
problem I would add after the above possibilities: a weak fuel pump,
low fuel in the tank, or a carburetor problem.

>Figuring out if one of these is the cause should take no more than 1/2 hour.
..particularly for an expert. 6 hours labor? That should be the best
part of a minor overhaul! 6 hours and no outcome is ridiculous. I
would have a very stern talk with the service manager, particularly
after you can show him the bill form a shop that actually knows what
they are doing. Most good chain saw shops do generator work as well,
and I bet they could have found the problem in under an hour.

If you do not get satisfaction with the manager or their national HQ,
write in to the Good Sam consumer advocate. 6 hours labor and 2½ weeks
is nothing short of fraud, IMO.

In any case, I would definitely dispute the bill on the grounds of
ineptitude.

 From Randy & Val
1990 30' Rexhal Airex
Hustlin' Hank - 23 Nov 2006 11:21 GMT
> I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> stops when you after releasing switch. I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> take isat long to troubleshoot? In the future I plan to do more
> truobleshooting on my own. I just don't want to be ripped off.

If your generator is running at normal RPM while holding the switch, I
can definately tell you it is an electrical problem. It is not a fuel
problem, compression problem, or any other mechanicl problem. With a
wiring diagram, one should be able to by-pass any bad
switch/wire/ground that could be causing the problem.

If it isn't running at normal RPM, then that would take a much longer
time to diagnose. But 6 hours is still an extremely long time.

Hank
mrehmus - 25 Nov 2006 17:55 GMT
> > I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> > stops when you after releasing switch. ?I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Hank

IF the ignition system on the Onan is like older automobiles, it is 12
volt start, 6 volt run on. When you press start, 12 volts goes to the
coil and when you release the switch to the run position, the ignition
resistor is no longer bypassed and the volts drop to about 6 for the
coil. The resistor could be open and that will cause this problem every
time.
Alan Robinson - 26 Nov 2006 03:36 GMT
> IF the ignition system on the Onan is like older automobiles, it is 12
> volt start, 6 volt run on. When you press start, 12 volts goes to the
> coil and when you release the switch to the run position, the ignition
> resistor is no longer bypassed and the volts drop to about 6 for the
> coil. The resistor could be open and that will cause this problem every
> time.

It isn't like that. Onan generators must switch to 'run' mode to stay
running once the start switch is released. To do that, the control circuits
MUST have a signal from the oil pressure switch, MUST NOT have a stop signal
from the remote switch or wiring, and the generator MUST be generating to
provide voltage to a latching circuit or relay. If it fails any of those, it
will start - in 'start' mode - but stop as soon as the switch is released,
because it isn't switching into 'run' mode. Nothing to do with 6v/12v.

Alan
d_waite - 11 Dec 2006 03:25 GMT
Take the cap off the distributor, it's a metal cover that protects the
points.  There's a wire that is being grounded out as it passes through the
cover.  Wrap it in tape, you'll be good as new, after you replace the cover.

Had it happen to mine.  The Onan mechanic showed me how to fix it without
even looking at it. (Bad design from Onan)

> IF the ignition system on the Onan is like older automobiles, it is 12
> volt start, 6 volt run on. When you press start, 12 volts goes to the
> coil and when you release the switch to the run position, the ignition
> resistor is no longer bypassed and the volts drop to about 6 for the
> coil. The resistor could be open and that will cause this problem every
> time.

It isn't like that. Onan generators must switch to 'run' mode to stay
running once the start switch is released. To do that, the control circuits
MUST have a signal from the oil pressure switch, MUST NOT have a stop signal
from the remote switch or wiring, and the generator MUST be generating to
provide voltage to a latching circuit or relay. If it fails any of those, it
will start - in 'start' mode - but stop as soon as the switch is released,
because it isn't switching into 'run' mode. Nothing to do with 6v/12v.

Alan
Alan Robinson - 11 Dec 2006 07:35 GMT
> Take the cap off the distributor, it's a metal cover that protects the
> points.  There's a wire that is being grounded out as it passes through
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Had it happen to mine.  The Onan mechanic showed me how to fix it without
> even looking at it. (Bad design from Onan)

Patience...must practice patience. Patience patience patience.

PLEASE go to groups.google.com and find the original post that started this
thread. The OP's generator will start, and run as long as the switch is
held - but dies when the switch is released. If the points were shorting to
the cover, it wouldn't start at all.

I realize that this is Usenet, but you could at least try to offer a
response that matches the symptoms.

Alan
Jim Redelfs - 11 Dec 2006 14:47 GMT
> PLEASE go to groups.google.com and find the original post

No need for me since I use a "real" newsreader that has an [Open All
References] command.  Once invoked, the function retrieves and displays "all"
the articles in the thread that still remain on my news server.  The original
article was posted November 22.

Soooooo...  Here it is:

In article <1164206404.454775.7610@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
"RickP" <rphilp@creativedoorandmillwork.com> wrote:

> I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
> stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> take isat long to troubleshoot?  In the future I plan to do more
> truobleshooting on my own.  I just don't want to be ripped off.
Will Sill - 11 Dec 2006 15:09 GMT
I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> made the
really dumb mistake of posting an illogical answer to the question
posed, and then whining at "Alan Robinson" <alr@bmi.net> for taking
exception.

Jim, by now you should know that Alan knows more about Onan generators
than any ten of the rest of us.

Even if you didn't know that, you shoulda had enough brainpower to
know that YOUR cockamamie idea could not POSSIBLY be the answer to the
OP's problem.  As Will Rogers (no kin) is alleged to have advised:
Never miss a good chance to shut up.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
HD in NY - 11 Dec 2006 21:16 GMT
> I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> made the
> really dumb mistake of posting an illogical answer to the question
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Will Sill

Whatinhell is Will bitching about now?
Hugh
RichA - 11 Dec 2006 23:56 GMT
>> I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> made the
>> really dumb mistake of posting an illogical answer to the question
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>Whatinhell is Will bitching about now?
>Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Don't know, looks like he accused someone of something they didn't do.
Must not have followed the thread.

Take care and Happy Campin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Will Sill - 12 Dec 2006 00:10 GMT
I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> griped:

>>> I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> made the
>>> really dumb mistake of posting an illogical answer to the question
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Don't know, looks like he accused someone of something they didn't do.
>Must not have followed the thread.

Maybe it is Rich who did not follow the thread!  Here's a sumary (feel
free to check it out yourself):

The OP wanted to know why his gen started OK but died as soon as he
let go of the start switch.

Jim R suggested the points were shorted.

Alan Robinson, who actually knows Onan gensets, not only answered
correctly but politiely explained why Jim's idea was wrong.

Jim expressed annoyance, and proved he never even understood the OP's
problem by re-posting it.

I figured it was time to let him know he was wrong.

You and Hugh apparently know nothing about the issue but don't want to
miss a chance to bash Will.

Izzat about it?

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
HD in NY - 12 Dec 2006 01:19 GMT
snipped
> Jim expressed annoyance, and proved he never even understood the OP's
> problem by re-posting it.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Will Sill

No, he just "said" something about not needing to "Google" the thread
to see the original post. I understood that and also did NOT see
anything derogatory in Jim's post. We all know Alan is "The Man" when
it comes to gensets. You need to take your own advice and shut up.

I don't need to invent a reason to "bash" you, you provide plenty of
dog piles you seem to like slipping in. I just enjoy pointing that out
from time to time <g>. It does present a humorous mental picture of an
old fart slipping in his own doo doo and laying on his back whining at
his dang shoes for being such "Idjits". <lmao>
Hugh
Jim Redelfs - 12 Dec 2006 02:35 GMT
> Jim R suggested the points were shorted.

Not I, said the duck.

> Izzat about it?

Nope.  You got derailed somewhere along the line, Mr. Will.

Sgt. Shultz mode ON:  I know NOTHING about Onan generators, almost nothing
about points (except on a '68 Chevelle) and, quite honestly, have been
avoiding the thread after the first few days.

I simply stuck my nose into the fray to brag about my expertise in RETRIEVING
past articles.

> As Will Rogers (no kin) is alleged to have advised:
> Never miss a good chance to shut up.

...and I'm a fan of the Cowboy from Claremore.  I missed my chance!  Sorry.
Signature

           :)
JR

RichA - 12 Dec 2006 18:01 GMT
>I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> griped:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>Will Sill
>The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Hi Will,
Nope that's not about it.  Find the thread read it from top to bottom
and see who posted what about what.  Jim R didn't post anything about
shorted points.  I don't know where you even got that idea from.

The post that started this thread was made by d_waite referencing a
post made last month by RickP I believe.  d_waite posted about his
experience with having a shorted wire  in a distributor not Jim R.   I
think you owe some folks here an apology.

Take care and Happy Livin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Will Sill - 12 Dec 2006 19:56 GMT
I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> contributed:

> I think you owe some folks here an apology.

Read the thread, Rich, and tell me who owes whom an apology. Here are
the relevant posts (omitting all the irrelevant ones):

Rick P, the OP, posted back on 11/22, verbatim:

==============================

I just purchased my fathers 1986 Southwind Eagle 33'. The generator
stops when you after releasing switch.  I took the motor home to
Camping World in Ft. Myers, FL 2-1/2 weeks ago and they still have not
identified the problem. I am up to 6 hours on diagnostics and no
answers. The tech told me there 18 different items to troubleshoot.  I
have had to call them every couple of days to get updates.  Does it
take isat long to troubleshoot?  In the future I plan to do more
truobleshooting on my own.  I just don't want to be ripped off.
============================
[note 2nd sentence]

Next there were several responses about which I said nothing,
Then Alan wrote this accurate, comple and helpful response:
==============================
It would help to know WHICH Onan generator you have - but in general,
the symptoms you describe are caused by one of three things:

low oil pressure, bad oil pressure switch, bad wiring from switch to
controls

stop signal (ground) from remote switch, or the wiring to the switch

generator not generating, thus not switching to 'run' mode

Figuring out if one of these is the cause should take no more than 1/2
hour. Once isolated to one of these, no more than another hour to
identify the specific problem - and if it's not one of these, it's in
the controls, which is a MAX of another hour troubleshooting (15
minutes if your set uses a control circuit board). So, a maximum of 1
1/2 hours troubleshooting to identify what's causing your problem.
(How long to fix from that point depends on what the cause is).

You are being ripped off - it sounds like the tech doesn't even have
the Onan service manual, because the manuals for sets of that era have
very good, step-by-step troubleshooting instructions.

If you let me know what the model and spec of the genset is, I'll be
glad to give you instructions on determining and fixing what the
problem is - or you could go to the Onan site http://www.funroads.com
and order the service manual for your set. If you're not comfortable
doing your own work, the dealer locator shows Cummins/Onan in Fort
Myers - they should be able to diagnose it quickly <g>.
==================================
Then on 12/10, D Waite wrote this incorrect remark:
===========================

Take the cap off the distributor, it's a metal cover that protects the
points.  There's a wire that is being grounded out as it passes
through the cover.  Wrap it in tape, you'll be good as new, after you
replace the cover.

Had it happen to mine.  The Onan mechanic showed me how to fix it
without even looking at it. (Bad design from Onan)
=====================================

On 2/11, Alan wrote, with remarkable restraint, in response:

Patience...must practice patience. Patience patience patience.

PLEASE go to groups.google.com and find the original post that started
this thread. The OP's generator will start, and run as long as the
switch is held - but dies when the switch is released. If the points
were shorting to the cover, it wouldn't start at all.

I realize that this is Usenet, but you could at least try to offer a
response that matches the symptoms.
===========================

Then Jim Redelfs stuck his nose in to harangue Alan with this
irrelevant crap:
=======================

No need for me since I use a "real" newsreader that has an [Open All
References] command.  Once invoked, the function retrieves and
displays "all" the articles in the thread that still remain on my news
server.  The original article was posted November 22.

Soooooo...  Here it is:

=========================

Your move.

Will Sill
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do
it very often.
RichA - 12 Dec 2006 21:12 GMT
>I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> contributed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 93 lines]
>Don't worry about what people think, they don't do
>it very often.

Hi Will,
Are you serious or what?  Have you actually read what was written in
this thread and what Jim R wrote.

 He wasn't responding to the sentence Alan wrote which you seem to
think he was <quote>I realize that this is Usenet, but you could at
least try to offer a response that matches the symptoms. <unquote>

He was responding to the previous paragraph Alan wrote in the same
message which was <quote>PLEASE go to groups.google.com and find the
original post that started this thread. The OP's generator will start,
and run as long as the switch is held - but dies when the switch is
released. If the points were shorting to the cover, it wouldn't start at
all.<unquote>

He even left in that part of Alan's post <quote>  PLEASE go to
groups.google.com and find the original post <unquote>  in his reply so
others could see what he was specifically responding to.  I saw it
apparently you didn't.

What he did was say <quote>No need for me since I use a "real"
newsreader that has an [Open All >References] command.  Once invoked,
the function retrieves and displays "all" the articles in the thread
that still remain on my news server.  The original article was posted
November 22.<unquote>

In other words all he said was he could get the original post without
going to groups.google.com.  He then re posted the original post so
others could see it and not have to go and look it up.  

Then again in another post in response to me you said <quote>Jim R
suggested the points were shorted. <unquote>

 Jim R. never suggested the points were shorted like you accused him
of.  He never mentioned anything about what he thought the problem was
or how to solve it.  He was just trying to be helpful by re posting the
original post in this thread.  That's the only post he made in this
thread as far as I know.

Like I said you owe some folks here an apology.  


Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Jim Redelfs - 13 Dec 2006 02:27 GMT
> Then Jim Redelfs stuck his nose in to harangue Alan with this
> irrelevant crap:
> =======================
>
> No need for me since I use a "real" newsreader

OUCH!  (The truth hurts.)
Signature

           :)
JR

Will Sill - 13 Dec 2006 13:19 GMT
I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> contributed:

Will:
>> Then Jim Redelfs stuck his nose in to harangue Alan with this
>> irrelevant crap:
>> =======================
>>
>> No need for me since I use a "real" newsreader

JR:
>OUCH!  (The truth hurts.)

Thank you.

Will Sill
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do
it very often.
RichA - 12 Dec 2006 18:12 GMT
>I see where RichA <richatpa*nospam*@epix.net> griped:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>Will Sill
>The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Hi Will,
By the way.   No one was bashing you just wondering what you were
talking about in your post and why you jumped all over someone for no
apparent reason. I don't bash people here.  I just figured you didn't
follow the thread.  Maybe you can't because you have some of the people
in it kill filed.

If you feel my words were a bashing, imagine what a bashing it would
have been if I used your technique.

Take care and Happy Livin...
Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Alan Robinson - 12 Dec 2006 02:37 GMT
>> PLEASE go to groups.google.com and find the original post
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Soooooo...  Here it is:

<snipped>

Jim,
   I'm not trying to get into newsreader wars. The poster I was replying to
(d_waite) is using Outlook Express, which WILL do the same thing - if you
switch views to 'show all messages' - but I don't know what the retention
time is on his news server. So I suggested he use Google groups to find the
original post.

Alan
 
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