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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / December 2006K&N
Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are they THAT much better? Steve > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are > they THAT much better? > > Steve Did you Google or are you trying to start a war? For starters: <http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html> <http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/air.filters.html> <http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm> So--kinda depends on your objective--and who you believe. Risk long term damage to your engine caused by a significant increase of small to medium particles that pass through a K&N filter like it wasn't there for maybe a 5% performance gain? Race cars yes--street vehicles, tow vehicles and MH's--not mine.  SignatureJud Dallas TX USA >> Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are >> they THAT much better? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > maybe a 5% performance gain? Race cars yes--street vehicles, tow > vehicles and MH's--not mine. I agree...but I use a premium oil filter. I like Wix. >So--kinda depends on your objective--and who you believe. Risk long term >damage to your engine caused by a significant increase of small to >medium particles that pass through a K&N filter like it wasn't there for >maybe a 5% performance gain? Race cars yes--street vehicles, tow >vehicles and MH's--not mine. Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is silver bullets though so they buy into it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power > they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is > silver bullets though so they buy into it. You sound like Will. You of all people (considering your ideas on springs) should believe that the manufacturer doesn't necessarily have the same specialized priorities as any given person, and an individual can gain by customizing. Granted, I agree about the filters in particular; a 5% performance gain from filters would also by its very nature have to be a major _efficiency_ gain, which would carry all sorts of advantages for the manufacturer. Rick Onanian <groups.theholycow@xoxy.net> wrote in news:zfqdh.9868$lI6.5149 @newsfe13.lga: >> Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power >> they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > _efficiency_ gain, which would carry all sorts of advantages for the > manufacturer. A better choice than the K&N is the AFE. These are cone-shaped BHAFs [Big Honkin' Air Filter] that, to install on a late-model Dodge, require modification of the Air Filter Box. These offer a major increase in filter area than the K&N and, thus, pass more air without having to compromise particle size limitations. IMO, the only appeal of a K&N is its "washability" to cut down on filter costs. I, OTOH, want to protect MY Cummins and, thus, stick with the best filtration that I can find. [The same holds true for my ONAN genset!] >> Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power >> they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > _efficiency_ gain, which would carry all sorts of advantages for the > manufacturer. I figure I will get a K&N filter for 5% gain, a Banks exhaust system for a 15% gain, a computer chip for a 30% gain, synthetic oil for a 5% gain, synthetic gear oil for 2% gain, a fuel demagnetizer for a 5% gain, a Gear Vendor to utilize the gain, larger tires and rims, a flow through tailgate, a wind deflector, octane booster, and when I get done, I'll have the fastest, most powerful, most economical truck anywhere. If it starts. You have to be careful putting on the gas saving devices. too many of them and the tank will run over. SignatureSteve Barker >>> Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power >>> they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > tailgate, a wind deflector, octane booster, and when I get done, I'll have > the fastest, most powerful, most economical truck anywhere. If it starts. > You have to be careful putting on the gas saving devices. too many of > them and the tank will run over. I've had that happen. Did you know that there's nowhere that will BUY BACK that extra gas? Steve > I figure I will get a K&N filter for 5% gain, a Banks exhaust system for > a 15% gain, a computer chip for a 30% gain, synthetic oil for a 5% [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have the fastest, most powerful, most economical truck anywhere. If it > starts. That truck will be so fast that it violates the laws of physics. You'll get where you're going before you left, and you'll be younger when you get there. It will also produce gas instead of using it. I say go for it! snipped > That truck will be so fast that it violates the laws of physics. You'll > get where you're going before you left, and you'll be younger when you > get there. It will also produce gas instead of using it. I say go for it! It may even go at twice the speed of light <lol>. Hugh >> I figure I will get a K&N filter for 5% gain, a Banks exhaust system for >> a 15% gain, a computer chip for a 30% gain, synthetic oil for a 5% gain, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > get where you're going before you left, and you'll be younger when you get > there. It will also produce gas instead of using it. I say go for it! It's been done. But as pointed out in rec.rv-travel, there's a government conspiracy by the Bushs and everyone else in government who owns oil companies and oil stock not to let these things get on the market. I guess it's a good though, because if we saved all the money on gas, they'd come up with some new tax. It's true. I read it in rv-travel, and we all know what legal and political experts post there. Steve >I figure I will get a K&N filter for 5% gain, a Banks exhaust system for > a 15% gain, a computer chip for a 30% gain, synthetic oil for a 5% [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >have the fastest, most powerful, most economical truck anywhere. If it >starts. THese mods are more a state of mind than anything. If you are lucky you might get 10% from all of them and you will loss torque and responce below 3000 RPM or so with a banks system and likely see MPG drop too in urban/city setting this is because beleive it or not gas engine need a little bit of back pressure at lower RPM's because if exhaust vents off too quickly less power is extranted from it at lower RPM (the reason for a bit of back pressure) If it was that easy to get all the extra power and MPG trucks would come with factor duals given the HP wars in detriot and pressure from CAFE standards. SYN oil maybe 1% at most based on dyno tests I have seen. On the custom tune, if you really want to perk truck up, keep it stock, use a good tune and 89 or 93 octane fuel because 87 really hamstrings its performance big time because your engine has a knock control system that retards spark to tolerate 87 octane to limit consumer complaints and anyone that tells you you will get best power and efficeicy out of a engine with 9.5 or 10 to one CR with 87 octane is full of it. BTW, I do not use 87 octane in any of my modern engine and have not for years amd they run really well and I even have a 89 4x4 burb with stock tires and 180K miles that will get as high as 19 MPG on a trip and never drops below 17 on highway even really pushing it with A/C on too. It burn 93 octane with timing advanced too. Is was a pig on 87 when new especailly in warm weather and never got more than 15 MPG and usually 14 or less on trips. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> I figure I will get a K&N filter for 5% gain, a Banks exhaust system for >> a 15% gain, a computer chip for a 30% gain, synthetic oil for a 5% [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com You really no how to bust someone's bubble. Right at Christmas, too. Well, I am going to start running 93 octane in my Cummins and see if you are right. >Even 5% is overly genrous. If it was that easier to get extra power >they would come that way from factory. People want to believe is >silver bullets though so they buy into it. >----------------- K&N air filters DEFINITELY flow more air. There is no doubt about it. I put one on my 1979 BMW R100RT (1000cc twin) and I had to rejet the CV carbs because it threw off the mixture. Hold a 60w bulb inside of one and see how they flow more air. They also flow more dirt as well.. IMO. Wix. And as long as we are at it, ArmorAll is crap unless you buy a new vehicle every 15 years or so or know an upholsterer. Hate vinyl? Spray ArmorAll on it. From Randy & Val 1990 30' Rexhal Airex >> Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are >> they THAT much better? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > maybe a 5% performance gain? Race cars yes--street vehicles, tow > vehicles and MH's--not mine. Holy smokes, man! I don't believe everything put forth by Google, just like I don't believe in all those consumer evaluations on products that Google pushes. So, I come here to ask real people who use these things in real life under real conditions for real answers to real questions. I care not one whit about wars. I'm an adult. Give me the short accurate true answer. I can cope with that far easier than some sales shpiel. I am a real fan of reality. I want to believe people who have used the product, and will testify to their experience, good or bad. Don't send me to sites that I have to spend a lot of time reading, and may come away with ambiguous conclusions. I'm too busy. Just the facts, ma'am. Steve > "Jud Hardcastle" <I5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.com> wrote in message >>Did you Google or are you trying to start a war? For starters: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > So, I come here to ask real people who use these things in real life under > real conditions for real answers to real questions. Er...Google is a great place to find real discussions that real people had about real things in real life under real conditions. > I care not one whit about wars. I'm an adult. Give me the short accurate I believe Jud's point was that such a question, thrown so recklessly into the mix, is likely to start a war. Are you new to usenet? >> "Jud Hardcastle" <I5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.com> wrote in message >>>Did you Google or are you trying to start a war? For starters: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I believe Jud's point was that such a question, thrown so recklessly into > the mix, is likely to start a war. Are you new to usenet? You've known me longer than that, Rick. I've been on Usenet for about 11 years now. Google just gripes me sometimes in the way returns come up. It's like, "How do they get there from here?" All sorts of hits on stuff not related to what you're looking for. And to have to sit and read through pages and pages and pages to ferret out the information you need. I just like plain straight answers instead of "Why don't you use Google?" Don't get me wrong, Google is great, and I use it for a lot of things. But in some cases, it's just as easy, faster, and the answers you get are from people who have real experiences when you ask on a newsgroup. If we all used Google for everything, why would we need newsgroups. Wait, I'll ask Google ................ Steve > "Rick Onanian" <groups.theholycow@xoxy.net> wrote in message >>Er...Google is a great place to find real discussions that real people had [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You've known me longer than that, Rick. I've been on Usenet for about 11 > years now. Right...then you obviously know what ingredients are required to start a war. Luckily, the environment here is much less flammable than in rort. > Google just gripes me sometimes in the way returns come up. It's like, "How > do they get there from here?" All sorts of hits on stuff not related to > what you're looking for. You would reap great benefits from learning to mine search engines more effectively. It certainly is an ineffective way to get answers for _some_ questions, but something like efficacy of K&N filters is one very quick Google Groups search away -- at worst, your results will include the same war that you risk starting by asking. > Don't get me wrong, Google is great, and I use it for a lot of things. But > in some cases, it's just as easy, faster, and the answers you get are from > people who have real experiences when you ask on a newsgroup. That's why I love Google Groups. I skip the marketing and braindead web forums full of "me too" posts and get real answers from real people who have real experience -- the same answers I'd get if I asked them myself. > If we all used Google for everything, why would we need newsgroups. Google Groups should be the first stop. Posting to newsgroups is good when you can't find your answer on Google; and the resulting discussion brings information to those who weren't searching for that answer. no, just a waste of money . K$N SignatureSteve Barker > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are > they THAT much better? > > Steve > no, just a waste of money . K$N You have no idea how much I like short sweet to the point answers. Thanks. Steve It's like one other responder said. If they were so great, they'd be in there from the factory. It's a simple decision, AC filters on a GM, motorcraft filters on a Ford, what ever the hell you want because it's junk anyway on a Chrysler product. SignatureSteve Barker >> no, just a waste of money . K$N > > You have no idea how much I like short sweet to the point answers. > Thanks. > > Steve > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are > they THAT much better? > > Steve While you're still in warranty, stick with the Cummins filters. FWIW, the Cummins MicroPore oil filter is the best-filtering filter on the market today. The K&N filter pass far too much grit for my tastes. If you're looking for a BHAF, go with an AFE otherwise stick with the stock Cummins filters. WIX is the second-best and is stocked by most auto-parts houses. They're what the dealerships put on... Forget FRAM and other such - they've had a history of failures... > The K&N filter pass far too much grit for my tastes. If you're looking for > a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Forget FRAM and other such - they've had a history of failures... I'll have to keep this FRAM tidbit in mind. My Ram 3500 had a K&N air filter on it and didn't want to be bothered trying to find the special oil for it. I replaced it with a FRAM air filter. I also used FRAM oil filters but I'll check out the others you mentioned if they're in stock. DH > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are > they THAT much better? > > Steve I used a high performance K&N air filter on my Mustang and experienced a great deal of fine dust in the inlet tube and air meter. Needles to say a lot more of it went into the cylinders. I would not use one again. I never used one on my diesel dualie and I understand from a number of people that the dusting does a great deal of damage to diesels that have used these type of filters. I would stick with Ford quality , though expensive, replacements filters or whatever the manufacturer of the diesel recommends. Their oil filters: I can't comment on since I don't know what company manufacturers them for K&N and to what specs. If you stick with the engine manufacturers unrecommended filters you want jeopardize warranty and engine longevity. The Powerstroke diesel is expected to go to 300,000 miles minimum before major maintenance. The others are similar. Heavy block diesels in motor homes and the big rigs can expect up to a million miles before major maintenance on the engine assembly with normal maintenance. That sounds like the logical thing to do is stick with the manufacturers unrecommended filters to me. > > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are > > they THAT much better? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > That sounds like the logical thing to do is stick with the manufacturers > unrecommended filters to me. I put a Banks Powerpack on the motorhome and it came with a K&N filter. I always thought that Gale Banks knew what he was doing. FWIW. SignatureMatt Delete nospam for email "Where did you say we are going again, Dear?" >> > Are the $12 oil filters worth the money? How about the air filters? Are >> > they THAT much better? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> expensive, replacements filters or whatever the manufacturer of the >> diesel recommends. <snipped> >> That sounds like the logical thing to do is stick with the manufacturers >> unrecommended filters to me. > >I put a Banks Powerpack on the motorhome and it came with a K&N filter. >I always thought that Gale Banks knew what he was doing. FWIW. Hi, He does, got your money didn't he? Couldn't resist.... :) K&N's are for hot rods not for motor homes, IMO of course. They leave to much dirt get past the filter. Not good for turbo blades or other engine parts. Of course how long before you see any damage is anyone's guess. Depends upon where and how you drive. Send your oil in for an oil annalist and check out the silicate content, if it's high that means dirt is getting into your engine. Take care and Happy Campin... SignatureRichA "We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart" > I put a Banks Powerpack on the motorhome and it came with a K&N filter. > I always thought that Gale Banks knew what he was doing. FWIW. What it was worth was Mr. Banks getting some VERY nice Christmas packages from K&N. And also some nice trips and golf games and cruises and "stuff" throughout the rest of the year, too. Worth quite a bit, I'd say. Steve I see where HD Matt <nospammbode@multiprintinc.comnospam> contributed: >I put a Banks Powerpack on the motorhome and it came with a K&N filter. >I always thought that Gale Banks knew what he was doing. FWIW. Gale Banks was a savvy engineer, and a more savvy promoter. Just beware of the huge difference between the marketing claims and reality. Will Sill Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. > I see where HD Matt <nospammbode@multiprintinc.comnospam> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Don't worry about what people think, they don't do > it very often. True. Never did get the "claimed" improvement in mileage but, the MH drives a lot better. Had a leaking right side exhaust manifold and after several consultations with trusted mechanics, yes I do know a few I trust, the concensus was that headers would be a lot better. The 454 has a rep for exhaust leaks. Went with a Banks System because it was a complete "package" solution. Still using the K&N but most likely will replace it soon. Not really into cleaning and oiling and such. Really would prefer to just open up the air cleaner and replace the element. FWIW SignatureMatt Delete nospam for email "Where did you say we are going again, Dear?" > Still using the K&N but most likely will replace it soon. Not really > into cleaning and oiling and such. Really would prefer to just open up > the air cleaner and replace the element. I wonder how much a k&n element costs vs. equivalent mileage worth of paper filters...if you like your k&n, maybe you could just replace it instead of bothering with cleaning and oiling it. I had one a long time ago, and it wasn't much hassle the one time I cleaned and oiled it. > > Still using the K&N but most likely will replace it soon. Not really > > into cleaning and oiling and such. Really would prefer to just open up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I had one a long time ago, and it wasn't much hassle the one time I > cleaned and oiled it. To be honest, I think it's about 4 to 1. The K&N is about 4 times as much. AFAIKR SignatureMatt Delete nospam for email "Where did you say we are going again, Dear?" |
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