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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / December 2006Propane Ref/120 Volt Refrigerator
We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of operating the refer on propane while in motion. >We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two >way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of >operating the refer on propane while in motion. This topic comes up periodically and has been discussed to death. The short answer is that the overwhelming majority of us do it all the time with no concern at all. There are a very few here who will disagree, but none of them has ever been able to point to a single reported incident of a problem related to driving with it turned on. GB in NC >> We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a >> two way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > GB in NC That's rather annoying.. It is ILLEGAL in Maryland (to drive with the propane on, especially in tunnels), and I got ticketed for it, and have said so several times in this NG... So since I just paid the ticket, but don't have a link to a police report, in your mind it never happened!?!?!??!?!? >>> We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a >>> two way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > don't have a link to a police report, in your mind it never > happened!?!?!??!?!? No problem, just advise everyone to stay out of MD! It is obviously not an RV friendly state. <g> Ron >>> We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a >>> two way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety >>> aspects of operating the refer on propane while in motion. >> This topic comes up periodically and has been discussed to death. The >> short answer is that the overwhelming majority of us do it all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> GB in NC >That's rather annoying.. It is ILLEGAL in Maryland (to drive with the >propane on, especially in tunnels), and I got ticketed for it, and have said >so several times in this NG... So since I just paid the ticket, but don't >have a link to a police report, in your mind it never happened!?!?!??!?!? Marc, calm down. He asked about the *safety aspects* and I answered him accordingly. And I repeat that, despite numerous requests (by me and others), nobody has been able to point to any verifiable report of a safety problem that occurred because of driving with a propane refrigerator running. I had no idea it was illegal (as you say) in MD, other than in the tunnels -- which of course I did know. If you've been ticketed for it, apparently it is. Would you enlighten us with the circumstances of the arrest? For example, how did a police officer determine that you were violating the law? GB in NC > I had no idea it was illegal (as you say) in MD, other than in the > tunnels -- which of course I did know. If you've been ticketed for it, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > GB in NC The tunnels around baltimore are toll tunnels, and the cops hang at the toll area, IMO just waiting to go after and inspect any vehicle that attemps to go thru the tunnel.... Did you know that I95 was actually given to the states, and now MD forces you to pay tolls on certain portions of what used to be an interstate? Bah... I hate the east cost... Give me the west and the Freeways! >> Would you enlighten us with the circumstances of the arrest? For >> example, how did a police officer determine that you were violating >> the law? >> >> GB in NC >The tunnels around baltimore are toll tunnels, and the cops hang at the toll >area, IMO just waiting to go after and inspect any vehicle that attemps to >go thru the tunnel.... So are you saying you went on into the tunnel with propane on board, in violation of the signs warning you not to? If so, you deserved a ticket. If not, what WERE the circumstances? GB in NC >>> Would you enlighten us with the circumstances of the arrest? For >>> example, how did a police officer determine that you were violating [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > GB in NC Gads, you are such a stupid self center know nothing a.s... MOST MOTORHOMES HAVE A PROPANE TANK **WELDED** TO THE FRAME (for sure mine does).. IN MARYLAND, THE LAWS ALLOW THE POLICE TO STOP YOU FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER, OTHER THAN TO VERIFY THE VALVE IS TURNED OFF... You don't have to *DO* anything in this fascist nazi state, just drive on a friggen highway.. Look at a map.. if you are on I95, it stops JUST SOUTH of baltimore and becomes i395 (there is **NO** 95 for the 6 miles where the state tore it up and replaced it with i395 so they could charge tolls and apply their laws)... >>>> Would you enlighten us with the circumstances of the arrest? For >>>> example, how did a police officer determine that you were violating [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > i395 (there is **NO** 95 for the 6 miles where the state tore it up and > replaced it with i395 so they could charge tolls and apply their laws)... You're wrong. http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory= &searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&lev el=&cat=&address=&city=baltimore&state=md&zipcode= http://maps.google.com/ I 395 is a spur that runs north from I95. I just drove I95 to New Jersey last weekend and there is no 3 mile section that they charge tolls on. There is a toll coming out of the Ft. McHenry tunnel. You don't encounter another toll until you reach the Susquehanna Bridge.  SignatureFrank Tabor >Gads, you are such a stupid self center know nothing a.s... MOST MOTORHOMES >HAVE A PROPANE TANK **WELDED** TO THE FRAME (for sure mine does).. IN >MARYLAND, THE LAWS ALLOW THE POLICE TO STOP YOU FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER, >OTHER THAN TO VERIFY THE VALVE IS TURNED OFF... You don't have to *DO* >anything in this fascist nazi state, just drive on a friggen highway.. Thanks for that gentle, rational, non-answer. You're such a sweetheart. May I assume, then, that you were stopped at random for an inspection and the police found that your propane valve was open and gave you a ticket for it? Did they actually get down onto the ground and check the valve? Were there any extenuating circumstances? From the tone of your response to me just now, I can also assume that you were something of a screaming smartass to them, in which case it's a wonder they didn't find something else to ticket you for. (Did they?) Funny, I've driven through Maryland numerous times -- avoiding the tunnels, of course -- in my Class B with the propane valve open and never gave it another thought. Nor did I ever see signs indicating that I should have turned it off. But then, if I were stopped by the cops for any reason, I'd probably be a bit more polite than you probably were. ... I have just now spent a half hour attempting to find any reference to propane restrictions on Maryland highways (other than tunnels) and cannot find any mention of the topic. If you or anybody else has a link or other information, I'd like to see it, and it would help to clear up this matter. Marc, I'm not calling you a liar, but I frankly believe there's more to the story than you're sharing with us. What did the ticket say was the violation, specifically? GB in NC > May I assume, then, that you were stopped at random for an inspection > and the police found that your propane valve was open and gave you a > ticket for it? Did they actually get down onto the ground and check > the valve? Were there any extenuating circumstances? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! The valve was OFF AS THE LAW REQUIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The cop just gave a me a ticket for it saying "tell it to the judge and have it thrown out".......................... By MD law they need no rhyme or reason to stop you... Just probable cause, and driving an RV which usually has a propane tank, is probable cause enuf for some cops to pull you over and see if the valve is off.. This one went way way way overboard, and even thpough the valve was off, gave me a ticket and told to me "tell it to the judge when you go to court", unfortunately that court date was 83 days in the future, and I would have had to stay (or come back) to this state just to protest the ticket/have it thrown out... Makes me wonder what he would do with a propane powered (instead of gas) car/truck? If They don't have an exception, they wouldn't be allowed... Or trucks with a propane power auxilary generator (Diesel is okay, Just RV's have to have the valve turned off, and if you have a propane power generator in your RV, you can't even leave the fridge on electric and run the genny).. >> May I assume, then, that you were stopped at random for an inspection >> and the police found that your propane valve was open and gave you a >> ticket for it? Did they actually get down onto the ground and check >> the valve? Were there any extenuating circumstances? >NO!!!!!!!!!!!! The valve was OFF AS THE LAW >REQUIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >The cop just gave a me a ticket for it saying "tell it to the judge and have >it thrown out".......................... Okay, now I'm absolutely convinced there's more to this story than you're telling us. I still wonder why he gave you the ticket. (LOL -- no, I don't. I have a pretty good idea.) >By MD law they need no rhyme or reason to stop you... Just probable cause, >and driving an RV which usually has a propane tank, is probable cause enuf >for some cops to pull you over and see if the valve is off.. This one went >way way way overboard, and even thpough the valve was off, gave me a ticket >and told to me "tell it to the judge when you go to court", I note that you're still not telling us how this actually came to pass, so I'll be more specific: 1. Exactly where were you when you were stopped -- i.e., were you driving on a highway or an approach ramp to a tunnel? 2. Were you doing something else that caught the cop's attention (speeding, crossing the center line, taillight burned out)? 3. What was the cop's initial demeanor toward you -- and yours toward him? 4. What actual conversation took place when the cop approached your vehicle? Were your license and registration in order? 5. At what point did discussion of the propane valve ensue, and why? 6. Exactly what did the cop say about the propane valve? And what did YOU say? 7. How did the cop know the valve was open? And I'm still trying to get you or somebody to tell me where in MD law it states that it's a violation to drive an RV on an open highway (not in a tunnel or on a tunnel approach) with an open propane valve. Please help me here. GB in NC > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:04:09 -0500, "Peter Pan" wrote >>NO!!!!!!!!!!!! The valve was OFF AS THE LAW [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you're telling us. I still wonder why he gave you the ticket. (LOL -- > no, I don't. I have a pretty good idea.) You know, while it's entirely possible that Mr. Pan was screaming at the cop, it's equally possible that the cop was just an ignorant jerk on a powertrip whose wife hasn't laid him in months...there's at least as many of those in police cars as there are loudmouth jerks in RVs. Maybe more. >> Okay, now I'm absolutely convinced there's more to this story than >> you're telling us. I still wonder why he gave you the ticket. (LOL -- >> no, I don't. I have a pretty good idea.) >You know, while it's entirely possible that Mr. Pan was screaming at the >cop, it's equally possible that the cop was just an ignorant jerk on a >powertrip whose wife hasn't laid him in months...there's at least as >many of those in police cars as there are loudmouth jerks in RVs. Maybe >more. This is true. But Marc does have a temper. I've seen it here before. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I just don't believe we've heard the whole story. GB in NC >>> May I assume, then, that you were stopped at random for an inspection >>> and the police found that your propane valve was open and gave you a [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >GB in NC gosh, GB, you're a real glutton for punishment, aren't ya? ;o) 73, rich, n9dko >>Please help me here. >> >>GB in NC >gosh, GB, you're a real glutton for punishment, aren't ya? ;o) On one hand, I guess so <g>. On the other hand, I'd really like to know WHY he got the ticket.... GB in NC >>>Please help me here. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > GB in NC He said some Gestapo jackbooted pig was laying in wait just to give him a ticket, IIRC. Steve >> I had no idea it was illegal (as you say) in MD, other than in the >> tunnels -- which of course I did know. If you've been ticketed for it, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > you to pay tolls on certain portions of what used to be an interstate? > Bah... I hate the east cost... Give me the west and the Freeways! Actually, the Maryland/Baltimore Port authority collects the tolls on the tunnels and at the booths at the Susquehanna bridge. The port authority pays for the state troopers, and the full maintenance of the highway and the tunnels north of Baltimore. That's not so bad, considering that, functionally, I95 does not exist in NJ. Only the NJ Turnpike. SignatureFrank Tabor >>> I had no idea it was illegal (as you say) in MD, other than in the >>> tunnels -- which of course I did know. If you've been ticketed for it, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > That's not so bad, considering that, functionally, I95 does not exist in > NJ. Only the NJ Turnpike. Back in the 60's when the Illinois tollroad opened, it was going to be a tollroad just long enough to retire the bonds. It became such a cash cow that they just kept opening more toll roads and increasing the toll. > Back in the 60's when the Illinois tollroad opened, it was going to be > a tollroad just long enough to retire the bonds. It became such a cash > cow that they just kept opening more toll roads and increasing the toll. Replace "Illinois" and "60's" with any other combination of dates and places, and optionally replace "road" with "bridge", and the story remains the same. > Back in the 60's when the Illinois tollroad opened, it was going to be a > tollroad just long enough to retire the bonds. It became such a cash cow > that they just kept opening more toll roads and increasing the toll.<< Same with the NYS Thruway. Tools should have stopped years ago. And they just raised the tolls. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) > Tools should have stopped years ago. > And they just raised the tolls. I know that was a typo, but it was insightful in it's own way. Those damned tools should have stopped collecting tolls years ago... I know that was a typo, but it was insightful in it's own way. Those > damned tools should have stopped collecting tolls years ago...<< hehehe SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) We have an interesting way of dealing with that. Tell Street Atlas to avoid toll roads when routing - and it does. This makes even more difference to us because we get charged for 3 axles (on old GMC - only six tires and not all that heavy). It has the added benefit of routing us on more scenic road where we can only do 55-60 (which is all we want to do - or the fuel disappears) and that suits us. Matt Colie >> Tools should have stopped years ago. >> And they just raised the tolls. > > I know that was a typo, but it was insightful in it's own way. Those > damned tools should have stopped collecting tolls years ago... >> Back in the 60's when the Illinois tollroad opened, it was going to be a >>tollroad just long enough to retire the bonds. It became such a cash cow [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I disagree, Tolls or tools have a place in the overall scheme of things. User fee is what a toll is, and why should I pay for some one else to use a road that I never drive on. Trucks having to pay tolls, increase the cost of the goods that they carry, again I don't pay that unless I use their products. Toll roads are much fairer than using the gas tax to repair and pave the streets in the lowlife slums for people who will not work and pay their part. >:o SignatureCan't we all just get along? BILL P. Just Me & DOG -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I disagree, Tolls or tools have a place in the overall scheme of things. > User fee is what a toll is, and why should I pay for some one else to > use a road that I never drive on. Trucks having to pay tolls, increase Good in theory, but in practice, tolls don't replace funding from general taxes; they merely supplement it. Even so, it's okay to continue collecting tolls if it hasn't been promised that they're temporary. Here in RI, we have the same situation in a few places. Also, our sales tax used to be 5%. After a big banking scandal, it was raised "temporarily" to 7% to pay for the cleanup. The scandal is long since paid for; it was put to bed years ago. We are still paying 7%. If all the other kinds of lies weren't enough, the "temporary" tax line is particularly annoying. >> I disagree, Tolls or tools have a place in the overall scheme of things. >> User fee is what a toll is, and why should I pay for some one else to use [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If all the other kinds of lies weren't enough, the "temporary" tax line is > particularly annoying. Politicians just hate to see a source of revenue dry up. The more that comes in the more they get to spend. Ron >> I disagree, Tolls or tools have a place in the overall scheme of things. >> User fee is what a toll is, and why should I pay for some one else to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >general taxes; they merely supplement it. Even so, it's okay to continue >collecting tolls if it hasn't been promised that they're temporary. they do in illinois. the illinois tollway has 2 major sources of revenue...tolls and license fees for the oasis businesses. no tax money is allocated to or spent on the tollway system. >Here in RI, we have the same situation in a few places. Also, our sales >tax used to be 5%. After a big banking scandal, it was raised [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >If all the other kinds of lies weren't enough, the "temporary" tax line >is particularly annoying. 73, rich, n9dko > That's rather annoying.. It is ILLEGAL in Maryland (to drive with the > propane on, especially in tunnels), and I got ticketed for it, and have > said so several times in this NG... So since I just paid the ticket, but > don't have a link to a police report, in your mind it never > happened!?!?!??!?!? You can't go through a tunnel in MD with propane period, on or not. I just called the cops in Baltimore and they told me I could not go through the tunnel if I had a propane tank. Does anyone have any different experiences? > You can't go through a tunnel in MD with propane period, on or not. I > just called the cops in Baltimore and they told me I could not go > through the tunnel if I had a propane tank. Does anyone have any > different experiences? For everyone here is a web page for Maryland tourism. Go down the page and read what it says about propane. The following should be on one line: http://www.mdisfun.org/planningamarylandvisit/transportation/Transportation-Road s.html SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny. ~ Alexander Solzhenitsyn >You can't go through a tunnel in MD with propane period, on or not. I just >called the cops in Baltimore and they told me I could not go through the >tunnel if I had a propane tank. Does anyone have any different experiences? Some areas have that rule, others don't. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel, for example, allows propane tanks as long as the valves are shut off. I believe I remember reading here that the George Washington Bridge in NYC bans propane on the lower level. Most high mountain tunnels have no propane restrictions. The theory is that any propane that leaks in an "underground" (or underwater) tunnel will pool at the bottom of the tunnel and cause a potentially dangerous situation. But in a high mountain tunnel the center is usually higher than the ends -- or perhaps the entire tunnel slopes in one direction or the other -- so any leaking propane would find its own way out. If your proposed route involves tunnels, do your research before you get there. There are other roads that will get you around any restricted areas. It's not that big a deal. GB in NC >> That's rather annoying.. It is ILLEGAL in Maryland (to drive with the >> propane on, especially in tunnels), and I got ticketed for it, and have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the tunnel if I had a propane tank. Does anyone have any different > experiences? There are only two tunnels in MD you can't take propane in. The Fort McHenry and the Harbor Tunnel. Mchenry is on I95 in Baltimore, and the Harbor is on I895 in Baltimore. On the east coast, you cannot have the propane on in a tunnel that goes under the water. You can have the propane on in the tunnels that go over the mountains. Mark, I don't know why they gave a ticket to you for having the propane on, but I've lived and driven on the East coast all my life and never had any problems with propane and the police. SignatureFrank Tabor >Mark, I don't know why they gave a ticket to you for having the propane >on, but I've lived and driven on the East coast all my life and never had >any problems with propane and the police. Yep. That's why I asked him for more details, but he hasn't replied. I'm curious as to how it happened. GB in NC Maybe just driving an RV through the tunnel tipped off the cops. >>Mark, I don't know why they gave a ticket to you for having the propane >>on, but I've lived and driven on the East coast all my life and never had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > GB in NC > Maybe just driving an RV through the tunnel tipped off the cops. Sheesh. Seems to me like this .............. if I knew I was going to be driving through a tunnel (they usually have signs, have it posted on a map, all sorts of warnings) that I would stop, step out, turn off the valve at the tank, and go for it. Anyone who does less is a scofflaw, an anarchist, and a rebel nonconformist of the highest degree who deserves whatever social and legal setbacks that befall such an antisocial personality. Wow, that was hard to type. But you get the drift ................... I hope ............ Steve > Sheesh. Seems to me like this .............. if I knew I was going to be > driving through a tunnel (they usually have signs, have it posted on a map, > all sorts of warnings) that I would stop, step out, turn off the valve at > the tank, and go for it. Propane is prohibited in the two tunnels in Baltimore, whether it's on or not. SignatureFrank Tabor > Propane is prohibited in the two tunnels in Baltimore, whether it's on > or not. Are the two tunnels the ones described on the following web page? http://www.mdisfun.org/planningamarylandvisit/transportation/Transportation-Road s.html If so then your statement is not totally correct. I must admit that I've never been there in an RV so I have no experience but I found this on the internet so it must be true. :) SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV There are many good reasons for drinking, and one just came to my head, if a man can't drink when he's living how the hell can he drink when he's dead? -- Old Irish proverb >> Propane is prohibited in the two tunnels in Baltimore, whether it's on >> or not. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > never been there in an RV so I have no experience but I found this on > the internet so it must be true. :) Very few RVs have a propane tank smaller than 10 lbs. Most are the 20lb variety and larger. At the entrance to both tunnels is a picture of a propane tank, the 20 lb size with the universal NO slash through it. SignatureFrank Tabor >>> Propane is prohibited in the two tunnels in Baltimore, whether it's >>> on or not. >> >> Are the two tunnels the ones described on the following web page? http://www.mdisfun.org/planningamarylandvisit/transportation/Transportation-Road s.html >> If so then your statement is not totally correct. I must admit that >> I've never been there in an RV so I have no experience but I found [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of a propane tank, the 20 lb size with the universal NO slash through > it. Then I'm wondering, is there enough advance signage warning of the restriction and an alternate route? Or is it like some of the local speed traps around these hills? Once you see the sign its too late! SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia -- Charles Schultz >Then I'm wondering, is there enough advance signage warning of the >restriction and an alternate route? Or is it like some of the local >speed traps around these hills? Once you see the sign its too late! While it's obviously better to plan such routes and detours ahead of time, if possible, I've never gotten the impression that anybody was trying to entrap me by prohibiting propane. And IIRC, yes, there are signs in advance that indicate the restriction and suggest detours. And, BTW, I've never seen a sign indicating that propane use while driving is illegal in MD. Anybody else? (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his arrest for same. Marc?) GB in NC > While it's obviously better to plan such routes and detours ahead of > time, if possible, I've never gotten the impression that anybody was > trying to entrap me by prohibiting propane. And IIRC, yes, there are > signs in advance that indicate the restriction and suggest detours. I sort of figured that there was advance warning but thought I'd check. And you are correct that proper use of the 5 P's will make any trip more enjoyable. > (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his > arrest for same. Marc?) I think a few of us are. SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV My ex-wife always gave me sound advice. . . 99% sound, 1% advice. >> While it's obviously better to plan such routes and detours ahead of >> time, if possible, I've never gotten the impression that anybody was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I think a few of us are. Wasn't arrested, as the post says, was TICKETED.. Unfortunately, you either pay the ticket or hang around for a month to go to court (actually, that's being generous, MD courts are the PITS... actually closer to years than months).... They have an inducement to get you to pay however, pay early and no points go on your license, if you wait for the court date and don't go, it goes to warrant, points are applied, and they report it to your insurance company so you get to pay and pay and pay and pay..... etc... >>> (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his >>> arrest for same. Marc?) >> I think a few of us are. >Wasn't arrested, as the post says, was TICKETED.. Unfortunately, you either >pay the ticket or hang around for a month to go to court ><snip> Okay, Marc. But that still doesn't give us any hint as to why you got the ticket in the first place. I can only assume that for some reason you're reluctant to give us the full story, now that you've brought it up. So, once again: what happened, *specifically*? GB in NC >>>> (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his >>>> arrest for same. Marc?) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > GB in NC Not sure what you mean... This is the republick of maryland.. They have laws that allow the pigs to search your rv when coming up to a tunnel... Lets see.. RV+Probable propane? Guess what, like waving a red flag at a bull. While you can only get a safety type ticket in the other 49 states if you happen to be stopped for something else.. In MD, they can stop you for no other reason, and claim it was probable cause since you have an RV and most likely propane... Know how there is a stink about "flying while muslim"? This is like that, cept it's driving an rv in MD... :( >> So, once again: what happened, *specifically*? >> >> GB in NC >Not sure what you mean... What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the incident from start to finish. (And see my response to your other, screaming post.) GB in NC >>>So, once again: what happened, *specifically*? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > GB in NC It appears Marc was on the approach to a tunnel and the cops stopped him before he entered and placed himself and those in the tunnel in danger. If he ignored the warnings, he deserved the ticket. Hugh >> What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the >> incident from start to finish. >> >> GB in NC >It appears Marc was on the approach to a tunnel and the cops stopped >him before he entered and placed himself and those in the tunnel in >danger. If he ignored the warnings, he deserved the ticket. Yep. That's what I'm trying to get Marc to 'fess up to. It appears he's not telling us the whole story. Nor is he willing or able to give us a link to any restrictions on driving on Maryland highways with a propane valve open. If he got a ticket it must have had a statute number or something on it that would indicate the specific regulation that he violated. Many of us drive RVs through Maryland on occasion, and it would be helpful if we knew the definitive answer to this for once and for all. You still there, Marc? GB in NC >>> What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the >>> incident from start to finish. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > GB in NC Yeah, I haven't blocked the two idiots, you and hugh yet.. The law states you can't go thru a tunnel with propane, UNLESS THE TANK IS WELDED TO THE FRAME.. THEN IT MUST BE OFF.. It was a welded to the frame tank, AND IT WAS TURNED OFF AS THE LAW REQUIRES... But the jackbooted stormtrooper piglet gave me a ticket even though I was in full compliance with the law, and the statement to "take it up with the judge".. ie stay in Maryland until the court date (about 2 1/2 months later) and go to court and have the ticket thrown out. PS, drove it again yesterday (in my car), and the only warning sign is "Hazardous Material Prohibited By Law".... Gee that tells a lot....... Gotta be a friggen lawyer to know what it means by "prohibited by law... what law!!?!? no number given.... Point was, this is I95 just on the south side of Baltimore, and the cops sit and check RV's at the toll area just before the tunnel on I95.... Lots of RV'rs take I95, and Yes you can go the land way and skip the tunnel, exit I95 and take the beltway (I695) the long way around to where it meets I95 again (about 38 extra miles). Can't give you a link, cuz that is NOT what the law says.. All I can figger is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... >>>>What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the >>>>incident from start to finish. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and > probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... That's more like it Marc. All you had to do in the first place was post this info. I can't understand what you're getting upset about. Hugh >> Yeah, I haven't blocked the two idiots, you and hugh yet.. The law states >> you can't go thru a tunnel with propane, UNLESS THE TANK IS WELDED TO THE [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and >> probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... >That's more like it Marc. All you had to do in the first place was >post this info. I can't understand what you're getting upset about. So, Marc is now admitting that the offense had NOTHING to do with driving on a highway with an open propane valve and EVERYTHING to do with driving through a tunnel with a propane tank on board. I thought so. GB in NC > So, Marc is now admitting that the offense had NOTHING to do with > driving on a highway with an open propane valve and EVERYTHING to do > with driving through a tunnel with a propane tank on board. I thought that "propane tanks in tunnels" was what this whole thread was about! >> So, Marc is now admitting that the offense had NOTHING to do with >> driving on a highway with an open propane valve and EVERYTHING to do >> with driving through a tunnel with a propane tank on board. >I thought that "propane tanks in tunnels" was what this whole thread was >about! It was, until Marc said it's illegal to drive on any highway in MD with a propane valve open -- and that he'd gotten a ticket for it. That's why I keep digging. I want to know the whole story. And I can't find any indication of a propane restriction other than in tunnels. GB in NC > PS, drove it again yesterday (in my car), and the only warning sign is > "Hazardous Material Prohibited By Law".... Gee that tells a lot....... Gotta > be a friggen lawyer to know what it means by "prohibited by law... what > law!!?!? no number given.... Look at the top left hand corner of that sign and there is a smaller sign attached with the picture of the propane tank and the international slash for NO across it. I went north on last Friday and South on Sunday and it was there. SignatureFrank Tabor All I can figger > is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and > probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... And your excuse for using terms like "pigs" and "jackbooted stormtrooper piglet" is ...........? I'll bet he wasn't having a bad day. It was probably that his Idiot Detector was ON, and it was WORKING. Steve >>>> What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the >>>> incident from start to finish. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and > probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... What those guys are narrowing in on is your original statement: "It is ILLEGAL in Maryland (to drive with the propane on, especially in tunnels), and I got ticketed for it," Which implies that you can't drive anywhere with the propane on. It should have read in certain Tunnels (or is it all of them?). Probably don't have any above the surface type like we have in the western mountains. Can't think of any in the west where propane is illegal but they are all higher in the middle than at the entrance. Sheeeeesh! Plunk > >>> What I mean is, what happened, *specifically*? IOW, describe the > >>> incident from start to finish. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > is the MD state cop had a bad day, or maybe a wild hair up his butt, and > probably a brain blowout affecting his cognitive functions... > Not sure what you mean... This is the republick of maryland.. They have > laws that allow the pigs to search your rv when coming up to a tunnel..... Pigs? I think I know why you got a ticket. Next time, try a different tone of voice. And next time you have someone break into your house, call a dentist. Steve >>>>> (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his >>>>> arrest for same. Marc?) [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >Know how there is a stink about "flying while muslim"? This is like that, >cept it's driving an rv in MD... :( Pigs? You seem to have a problem with authority. I won't bother to comment on the "flying while...". > While it's obviously better to plan such routes and detours ahead of > time, if possible, I've never gotten the impression that anybody was > trying to entrap me by prohibiting propane. And IIRC, yes, there are > signs in advance that indicate the restriction and suggest detours. There is at least one tunnel in Boston where propane is prohibited. There's a huge, brightly colored sign a few exits before that makes it startlingly obvious that one must take a specific exit and a marked alternate route. > (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his > arrest for same. Marc?) I thought he said he got a ticket... >> (I'm still waiting for clarification from Marc/Peter Pan about his >> arrest for same. Marc?) >I thought he said he got a ticket... Okay, whatever. I still want to know <g>. GB in NC >>Then I'm wondering, is there enough advance signage warning of the >>restriction and an alternate route? Or is it like some of the local [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > GB in NC There USED to be a sign above the road before the tunnel with a propane tank with a slash through it. It has been remover within the last year. ALSO, there is a sign going north on I895 that states: "RV's use right lanes only". So I thought that maybe they removed the restrictions and I called the cops. I was told that the restrictions are still in place. Now, do you want to know why they want RV's to use the right lane? I'll tell you because it happened to me. When you pull up to the toll booth the person TAKING your money will tell you to pull over to the side and go into the Port Authority shack. When you go in they will tell you to make a U-turn and PAY ANOTHER $4 TO GO BACK THE WAY YOU CAME. Nice... :) JEB > There USED to be a sign above the road before the tunnel with a propane > tank with a slash through it. It has been remover within the last year. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > JEB LOL! > We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two > way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of > operating the refer on propane while in motion. Do it and don't look back. If someone spilled twenty gallons of gasoline at a service station, you would be in trouble, but when's the last time you heard of that happening. And if it does, something else is likely to set it off as well. To me, the only downside is that the pilot may go out. In which case, the autolighter starts it again, or it switches to 12v. Check when you park to make sure it's on, and if not, do the relight sequence. Other than that, don't worry about it and don't pay any attention to screeching neurotics who will tell you all sorts of tales about their brother-in-laws hairdresser's cousin and their bad experiences with propane. Steve >> We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two >> way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of >> operating the refer on propane while in motion. Sorry I missed where you said two way. Just use it while you drive, and when you park, make sure it is lit, or put it on AC. Steve The refrigerator in our old Toyota would blow out on the road. After I installed an inverter, I just let the fridge run on 110 AC. That way the engine powers the fridge and I didn't have to switch over when we parked at a campsite. I would only use the propane when boondocking. In our new Sunseeker, I will probably do the same when I get the inverter installed. Dan > We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two > way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of > operating the refer on propane while in motion. >The refrigerator in our old Toyota would blow out on the road. After I >installed an inverter, I just let the fridge run on 110 AC. That way the >engine powers the fridge and I didn't have to switch over when we parked at >a campsite. I would only use the propane when boondocking. In our new >Sunseeker, I will probably do the same when I get the inverter installed. There are ways, however, to keep it from blowing out while driving. I know, because mine used to until I stopped it. I now mostly run it on 12v while driving, but I have no qualms about using propane. GB in NC Propane tanks are very sturdy, very durable. They can take hits from bullets and not leak. The weakest part of the tank is the valve. If the valve were knocked off, propane would leak. It is unlikely to get a propane valve knocked off, I have never seen it. Propane tanks are very safe. But...once you open the propane tank valve, you are causing propane to flow into pipe and copper tubing, running possibly, half the length of your trailer. The tubing, pipe, and connections are vulnerable, and if you have an accident, or drive over a road hazard, the pipe, tubing or connections could break, loosen, or crack, causing propane to leak. If there is no open flame or sparks, you would simply deplete your tank. If you have an open flame, such as if the propane refrigerator, or hot water heater running, you could have a propane fire. FYI, I leave my propane refrigerator on when traveling. I don't leave the hot water heater on because the electric pilot light will constantly cycle if the wind blows the pilot light out. There is a lot of flame involved with the water heater, so it's best to light it only when I need it. Uh, what was the question? >But...once you open the propane tank valve, you are causing propane to >flow into pipe and copper tubing, running possibly, half the length of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you have an open flame, such as if the propane refrigerator, or hot >water heater running, you could have a propane fire. I don't disagree with that, but I would also point out that if you're driving down the highway and your propane is leaking, it's going to be blown away too fast to cause a problem. The chances that any leak is going to blow directly onto an open flame (in the same wind, remember) and ignite is so small as to be not worth considering. A propane leak would likely be far more hazardous when parked than when driving, because the gas would tend to "pool" under the RV. Maybe those who are worried about it should use the propane ONLY while driving.... GB in NC >> But...once you open the propane tank valve, you are causing propane to >> flow into pipe and copper tubing, running possibly, half the length of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > GB in NC I agree. That's why I said it would just empty the tank. In an accident or as you say, parked, leaking propane can find a flame and cause fire. >We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two >way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of >operating the refer on propane while in motion. No safety issues I've ever heard of. Sure, some will belly ache about turning refrigerators off at gas stations. I considered it, then considered the hight of the refrigerator vs the height of most cat converters and dismissed the idea out of hand. Our current camper has about 13,000 on it, and most of those miles were with the refrigerator on. We like our soda and beer cold and our leftovers unspoiled. | >We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two | >way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | about 13,000 on it, and most of those miles were with the refrigerator | on. We like our soda and beer cold and our leftovers unspoiled. Not sure on this but isn't propane heaver than air? > | >We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two > | >way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not sure on this but isn't propane heaver than air? Yep. "Young John" | > Not sure on this but isn't propane heaver than air? | > | Yep. I would expect that there is a concern for a build up of propane at the lower level. Since horizontal tunnels (like most in the mountains) propane would dissipate and in water tunnels which go down then up propane would settle. > "Young John" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would dissipate and in water tunnels which go down then up propane would > settle. It's funny that they don't worry about gasoline vapors which are heavier than air. Arsonists who have poured gasoline on an upstairs floor have blown themselves up by later lighting the the gas trail at the front door. The fumes beat them downstairs. > "Young John" > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It's funny that they don't worry about gasoline vapors which are heavier than air. Arsonists who have poured gasoline on an upstairs floor have blown themselves up by later lighting the the gas trail at the front door. The fumes beat them downstairs. >| >We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two >| >way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Not sure on this but isn't propane heaver than air? Yep, just like gasoline fumes. Cat converters are much lower to the ground than rv refrigerators. If you're going to go boom in a gas station, it'll be the little old car running too rich with a cherry red cat that comes into the station that'll cause it. > We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two > way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of > operating the refer on propane while in motion. Modern RVs that have refrigerators only have the two way systems. Instructions in my owners manual indicate to operate the refrigerator on "Automatic" That is it will run on A/C when you are connected to shore power and propane when not. I operate it on gas when outside, when in my barn it is run on A/C. It is a common practice to run the refrigerator on propane when underway, would be stupid to allow it to remain off for a long travel day and spoil the food, or at least melt the ice cream. Any travel restrictions for Propane or any other thing, such as low clearance, will be posted and an alternate rout provided, usually. SignatureBill P. Just Me & DOG > We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a two > way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety aspects of > operating the refer on propane while in motion. Thanks so much for the many valuable tips. I'm a safety professional (primarily aviation) and although I don't know beans about RV safety, it would be quite embarrassing if I were to make a stupid bonehead mistake. Thanks again. Ed MacNeil, Ancient Aviator North Hampton, New Hamster >> We are fairly new RV owners. Have a Thor Colorado fiver that has a >> two way refer. I'd be interested in opinion regarding the safety [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Ed MacNeil, Ancient Aviator > North Hampton, New Hamster Well, being in aviation, you already know that an RV will fly if you get it going fast enough. Propane can help. This guy is parachuting, and to his horror, his 'chute doesn't open. As he is streaking to the ground, he sees a guy coming up from the ground, right at him. As they begin to pass he yells to the guy,"Hey, do you know anything about parachutes?" As the guy goes by he yells back, "No! Do you know anything about Coleman stoves?" > This guy is parachuting, and to his horror, his 'chute doesn't open. As > he is streaking to the ground, he sees a guy coming up from the ground, > right at him. As they begin to pass he yells to the guy,"Hey, do you > know anything about parachutes?" As the guy goes by he yells back, "No! > Do you know anything about Coleman stoves?" That's funny, but this is messed up: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lDQIzO0j0go.flv Skydiver nearly gets Cuisinarted by a passing plane... >That's funny, but this is messed up: >http://youtube.com/watch?v=lDQIzO0j0go.flv >Skydiver nearly gets Cuisinarted by a passing plane... Can't get to it. Page says "The url contained a malformed video id." GB in NC >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lDQIzO0j0go.flv > > Can't get to it. Page says "The url contained a malformed video id." Drat. Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQIzO0j0go I forgot to remove the '.flv'. >>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lDQIzO0j0go.flv >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I forgot to remove the '.flv'. Some one sure messed up, could be flying cross country and failed to check the NOTAMs posted for the sky diving or they failed to post one. There is a five mile circle of safety zone for the sky diving operations, provided the people involved filed and received approval from ATC. SignatureCan't we all just get along? BILL P. Just Me & DOG -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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