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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / January 2007

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Maintaining RV Batteries Charge?

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Lewis - 17 Jan 2007 17:42 GMT
Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have any
electrical outlets?

I understand that solar has several benefits and sizes of amp/volt panels
and rollup flat sheets. If we used a solar panel with alligator clips would
we need one solar setup for each battery?

We try and get our RV cleaned and started about once a month when "stored"
and not in use. Twice now, when we attempted to start our RV both batteries
were completely dead.

Last November we replaced BOTH at a cost of over $250.00 (the household is a
huge deep cycle battery that is easily installed using a forklift from the
bottom of the front). Now both batteries a dead.

Info on Solar, and or any "trickle" chargers would be great.

Thanks,
  Scott Lewis
Mickey - 17 Jan 2007 19:04 GMT
> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
> batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks,
>   Scott Lewis

First, LA batteries DO NOT like to be in a discharged
condition.  This will shorten their life considerably.

Modern RV have various items that continue to draw power
even when you got everything turned off.  They can and do
pull a battery down.  You can either make sure batteries are
disconnect from the chassis and coach to insure no current
draw or as you mentioned, install a solar panel.

Parasitic draws can be up to about .5A for some rigs.  If
you go with a solar panel, it will have to be large enough
to replace those parasitics draws with-in the number of hrs
the panel can provide the replacement energy.

Don't know where you are, the storage conditions or related
issues but it the panel can only provide power for say 6
hrs, it will have to be at a high enough rate to cover those
other 18hrs it's not providing power.  Don't forget cloudy
days when the panel won't produce as much power.

Mickey
Greg Harrison - 17 Jan 2007 19:33 GMT
>> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
>> batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Mickey

Scott,

I think Mickey got it right re solar panels. The farther north you are, the
less effective they are, especially in the winter. It may cost far too much
to set up enough solar panels to top up your batteries.

It does sound like parasitic draw is killing your batteries. Even with your
master switch in the disconnect position, there are often some systems that
continue to draw power; steps, CO detector, clocks, TVs and radios with
memories and so on.

The simplest and easiest to implement solution is to simply disconnect your
batteries when your Bounder is in storage. There are a couple of ways to do
this - remove the ground wires from the batteries or install battery
disconnects available at most auto parts stores. Of course you could
physically remove the batteries but that's not really required.

Signature

Greg H
Near Edmonton, Alberta
(remove the 9 to reply)

James - 17 Jan 2007 19:40 GMT
Lewis;

> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the
> household batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area
> does not have any electrical outlets?

Note that not all MH's charge the engine battery when plugged into shore
power. If you do setup a solar system to charge your house battery, then it
is possible to charge the engine battery from the house battery using an
additional electrical device. Here are two I have found. I have not tried
either one, so I can't vouch for how well they work.

James
----------------------------------------
http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html
This is a unique charger that charges the engine battery from the house
battery (assuming the house battery is being charged by the converter when
plugged into shore power). It only requires three wires to be connected
inside the engine compartment. Also contains a diode to prevent the engine
battery from being discharged into the house battery. $48.95

--------------------------------

10/23/2006 11:34 AM

Here is a similar device

http://www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300362.100.pdf
JerryD(upstateNY) - 17 Jan 2007 19:56 GMT
Twice now, when we attempted to start our RV both batteries were completely
dead.
 Last November we replaced BOTH at a cost of over $250.00 (the household is
a huge deep cycle battery that is easily installed using a forklift from the
bottom of the front). Now both batteries a dead.<<

Like someone has already mentioned........
There is no reason a battery should go dead in a month without an electrical
draw somewhere.
Unhook the negative cables from each battery and you should be fine.
Signature

JerryD(upstateNY)

Dean - 18 Jan 2007 19:02 GMT
It seems you must have a huge draw, much more than reasonable.  I
would get an ammeter and check what the quiescent draw is.  Then track
it down and see what can be done to change it.

Dean

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:56:29 -0500, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)"
<jerryd@wherever.com> wrote:

> Twice now, when we attempted to start our RV both batteries were completely
>dead.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>draw somewhere.
>Unhook the negative cables from each battery and you should be fine.
Matt Colie - 17 Jan 2007 20:19 GMT
Scott,

You gave us no hint what the year this vehicle was built, and that may
give a better idea what equipment might have been installed.

Mickey is right on a number of counts, but I would like to add some
things and clarify others.

Yes, you should have a charging system for each battery.  If you can
shutdown all the blind parsitic loads, then a good battery can sit for
months without leakage depleting the charge significantly.  Boats that
do not have an automatic electric bilge pumps to this all the time.

The start battery of any modern vehicle has a continues load that
supports the onboard processors for the engine (at least), transmission,
body and safety systems.  If the vehicle is fuel injected, it has an ECU
(Engine Control Unit = Processor) somewhere.  If the engine processor
losses its power for an extended period, you MAY have some drivability
issues on restart.   If the radio can lose its memory when power down,
them it is a load, also.

What is killing the house battery?   Well, it could be, a radio like
above, a CO monitior, an electronic thermstat, an inverter/charger, the
potable water pump, anything that you don't pay attention to, or (like
so many cars with hood and truck lights) an automatic light hidden
somewhere that is not shutting off when it should.

As to solar panels.  It does not take very much to make up for both the
battery leakage and the load that I have just mentioned - of course, the
more you can eliminate the better.   Buy a small one to start.  I live
in Michigan, and a panel less than a square foot will keep my start
battery alive forever - even in winter.

If the unit has a diode based charging isolator, you can hook the panel
on the alternator side of that and lose some charging rate and you will
only need one larger panel.

I hope this is some of the answer you needed.

Matt Colie

> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
> batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks,
>   Scott Lewis
Lewis - 17 Jan 2007 21:54 GMT
Sorry. We are located in the Central Coast of California.

Our RV is a 1978 Bounder. I do appreciate all your info and responses. Once
charged I can disconnect the neg. cables and/or install a solar "trickle".

The problem now is getting the two batteries charged. I can pull out the
engine battery very easily, but the household battery is huge. As I
mentioned, when our local battery outlet has to remove or install the
household they use a forklift. Drop the household down from infront of the
engine onto the tonges of the forklift and back it out. I have no forklift
at the storage site and again NO electrical outlet (shore power).

If I charge the engine battery, and start the Generator, will this recharge
the Household battery over time?

Thanks,
  Scott

> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
> batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have any
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks,
>   Scott Lewis
RichA - 18 Jan 2007 04:18 GMT
>Sorry. We are located in the Central Coast of California.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>Thanks,
>   Scott
<snipped>

Hi,
The cheapest solution is to disconnect the batteries, but you should
make sure they are charged up before doing this. You can just unhook the
negative terminals on the batteries or install a battery disconnect
switch.

An 80 to 100 amp solar panel can supply enough power to keep both the
house batteries and starting batteries charged up.  That is provided the
solar panels are not covered by snow for days on end. The house and MH
starting batteries are on separate systems and you would have to find a
way to charge both of them together. I think James posted some info
about doing that using some devices.  There are several ways to do that.

If you can get your generator started your converter or inverter (don't
know what you have) should charge the house battery.  If you have an
inverter you may have to put it in charge mode if it doesn't go into
charge mode automatically when it senses 120V power.  With a converter
it should start charging by itself.  How long it takes depends upon the
charging capabilities of the converter or inverter. If they have low
charge ratings it could take a long time.  If the battery is completely
dead it may not want to take a charge.  Or you can use a regular battery
charger to charge up your house battery.  Just plug the battery charger
into one of the coaches 120 volt outlets with the generator running and
charge the house batteries.

Hope this helps.  Take care and Happy Campin...



Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Dean - 18 Jan 2007 19:07 GMT
Your suggestion is to use a 1000-1200 Watt panel?  Besides the huge
cost, it is massive overkill.  A 120 Watt (10 Amp) panel would be
adequate to replenish quiescent draws.

Dean

>Hi,
> The cheapest solution is to disconnect the batteries, but you should
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>way to charge both of them together. I think James posted some info
>about doing that using some devices.  There are several ways to do that.
RichA - 18 Jan 2007 23:10 GMT
>Your suggestion is to use a 1000-1200 Watt panel?  Besides the huge
>cost, it is massive overkill.  A 120 Watt (10 Amp) panel would be
>adequate to replenish quiescent draws.
>
>Dean

<snipped>>>
>> An 80 to 100 amp solar panel can supply enough power to keep both the
>>house batteries and starting batteries charged up.  That is provided the
>>solar panels are not covered by snow for days on end. The house and MH
>>starting batteries are on separate systems and you would have to find a
>>way to charge both of them together. I think James posted some info
>>about doing that using some devices.  There are several ways to do that.
Hi Dean,
Good catch...  Course then he could put in an electric drive add a few
more batteries and power the whole thing from the sun and save some on
fuel :)  Might need one or two more 120 amp panel to do that though :)

Take care and Happy Campin...


Signature

RichA
"We Get Too Soon Olde and Too Late Smart"

Matt Colie - 18 Jan 2007 13:15 GMT
Ok Scott,

Well, at least the location is good for solar charging.  Infact, if it
were mine, I would go looking for some nice size panel and a good couple
of charging regulators - one for each battery.  Start looking for them
at alternative power locations.  With a regulator designed for solar
charging, you can not have too much panel capacity - so buy what you can
afford.

The flexible panels are neat just because they are so easy to handle,
but if you mount a ridgid panel on the roof and leave it there and only
handle it to clean it - even that isn't an issue.

I can not tell you if the genset will charge the house battery, but most
every motorhome I ever saw with a genset could do this (is is a big
sample).  The only thing that might be an issue here is the age of the
converter/charger and that is really not so much the age as the type.
If it has not been replaced, it is proabably an old ferroresonant
regulator.  Many of these have died when asked to bring up a really dead
battery.

You should be able to make the connections to solar charge the house
battery inside whereever the converter charger and 12v distribution
panels are located.  A good place to install a house system voltage
monitor if it does not have one.

Back to the start battery -  A 1978 Fleetwood Bounder is (as I recall) a
carbutrated 454.  No ECU here, so disconnect the start battery without
any concern.  If someone upgraded the radio (ripped out the 8-track) and
installed a digital tuning radio, that still should not kill the house
battery in a month, but it won't do you any favors either.

Unfortunately, we have kind of runout what I can tell you from memory
and general knowledge.  If you can phrase a specific question, maybe
someone here can give you a specific answer.

Good Luck

Matt Colie

> Sorry. We are located in the Central Coast of California.
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>> Thanks,
>>   Scott Lewis
Rich256 - 18 Jan 2007 17:13 GMT
> Any recommendations on best way to maintain the engine AND the household
> batteries in a Bounder motorhome when the "storage" area does not have
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks,
>   Scott Lewis

Not specific on your requirements but much about how to maintain a
battery and how to get long life:

http://www.batteryfaq.org
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 20 Jan 2007 22:12 GMT
>I understand that solar has several benefits and sizes of amp/volt panels
>and rollup flat sheets. If we used a solar panel with alligator clips would
>we need one solar setup for each battery?

Our '99 Winnie came equipped with a 15W solar panel; and it's been
doing just fine up here in the frosty north where the solar panel is
often covered with snow for weeks at a time.

For this system to work, the house battery-disconnect MUST be set in
disconnect-mode to eliminate parasitic drains from stuff like propane
detector, fridge, thermostat, etc.

You didn't mention what kind of rig you have. Most Fords can sit
unattended for months at time without needing attention. Chevs will
generally drain your battery in short order; so if you have a Chev, a
jumper from the coach to chassis battery *might* work, but it's also
possible that you may need to disconnect the chassis battery on a
Chev.
 
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