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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / February 2007Towing with a Tacoma
I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up to a hard side (expandable). My truck is rated at 6500 lbs towing capacity. The trailer specs are 3778 GVW, 541 hitch weight, and a length of 22' 5". Anyone here pulling a comparable size trailer? Comments? D.Williams >I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently > pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Comments? > D.Williams Forget the length - how TALL and WIDE is your proposed trailer? The majority of the strain upon the drivetrain is imposed by FRONTAL AREA. Your popup does not add measurably to your Tacoma's frontal area but, believe me, a conventional TT will. Think of a TT/FW as a "Drag 'Chute" on a dragster/airplane - the kind that they use to slow down with - that cannot be folded down. That's what provides the most effect upon the drivetrain (motor, transmission, U-joints, differential) while towing. The weight is only a factor when starting, accellerating, decellerating, and stopping. As you've noted, the trailer's weight is well within your truck's specs. A real-world example: my ex-boss was able to get his money back on a new Tahoe (under "Lemon Law" provisions) when his differential had to be replaced twice due to towing a TT that was well within his truck's weight limits. [He bought a 3/4-ton Diesel Dodge and hasn't had any problems since. <G>] Another real-world example: I used to have a 1/2-ton GMC with a small straight six engine that would overheat if I attempted to pull a van-type [covered box] U-Haul trailer over 45 MPH even if the trailer was totally empty. The two factors that you need to consider - given that the weight is within specs -are frontal area and speed. [If you don't go over ~20 MPH the frontal area won't be much of a factor but at 50 MPH or more it definitely will.] | >I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently | > pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] | specs -are frontal area and speed. [If you don't go over ~20 MPH the frontal | area won't be much of a factor but at 50 MPH or more it definitely will.] This is a bit off the original topic but I've seen some rigs with a fiber glass wedge on top of the tow vehicle that appears to be some form of stream lining. Is this someone's excellent marketing or is there any benefit to the addition of the wedge? if so how much? > I've seen some rigs with a fiber glass wedge on top of the > tow vehicle that appears to be some form of stream lining. > > Is this someone's excellent marketing Yes. > or is there any benefit to the addition of the wedge? Yes. > if so how much? Not enough to recoup the CO$T of the deflector (wedge). Then there's the louvered tailgate... [ducking and hiding from Will]  Signature:) JR I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> contributed: "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> I've seen some rigs with a fiber glass wedge on top of the >> tow vehicle that appears to be some form of stream lining. >> >> Is this someone's excellent marketing JR: >Yes. NM: >> or is there any benefit to the addition of the wedge? JR: >Yes. NM: >> if so how much? JR: >Not enough to recoup the CO$T of the deflector (wedge). > >Then there's the louvered tailgate... [ducking and hiding from Will] JR is right. The deflector CAN favorably influence aero drag, resulting is some slight mileage improvement --- IF (big word) it is correctly positioned at the right angle close enough to the trailer. Unlike the abominable louvered tailgate, which is advertised to improve mileasge 15% and makes NO difference, they can measurably affect mileage. But as Jim says, not enough to get yer money back. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill |I see where Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> contributed: | [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] | improve mileasge 15% and makes NO difference, they can measurably | affect mileage. But as Jim says, not enough to get yer money back. Thanks I'm not planning on a purchase but was simply curious if this was another form of mouse milk marketing. BTW of the one's I've seen most are on bumper pull with the tow being a HD suburban. >This is a bit off the original topic but I've seen some rigs with a fiber >glass wedge on top of the tow vehicle that appears to be some form of stream >lining. > >Is this someone's excellent marketing or is there any benefit to the >addition of the wedge? if so how much? In my travels I have spoken to a half-dozen people with some sort of wedge airfoil like that, and not one of them was happy. The consensus was you'll never recover the cost, and besides the things are ugly. http://www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings >>This is a bit off the original topic but I've seen some rigs with a >>fiber glass wedge on top of the tow vehicle that appears to be some form [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings A friend of mine has one that he'd used on his previous pickup while towing commercially. According to him, it gave him a couple of MPG back after he'd BOMBed ["Better Off Modified, Baby"] it with aftermarket performance parts. His current truck gives him better economy as well as better performance than his old truck ever did. [It's still stock.] That he hasn't any interest in mounting his "chicken slide" on his current truck speaks volumes. >Forget the length - how TALL and WIDE is your proposed trailer? <snip> The trailer is 9'0" tall and 7'7" wide. Of course it's going to be taller than my tacoma. Maybe I'll just stick with the pop-up. D.Williams >>Forget the length - how TALL and WIDE is your proposed trailer? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > D.Williams Have you considered the A-Liner? It's a hard-sided popup with good headroom. Another possibility might be the Hi-Lo which telescopes upwards. FWIW, your proposed 9' x 7'7" trailer has a frontal area of 68.25 square feet. It's doubtful that a Tacoma (or many other 150/1500 trucks) would perform well with that size "drag 'chuts" holding them back. >>Forget the length - how TALL and WIDE is your proposed trailer? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > D.Williams Many smaller tow vehicles have a restriction for no more than 49 sq/ft of frontal area. The trailer you're talking about is measured by the actual frontal area, not including the space from the bottom of the body to the ground. I've towed a 5th wheel 7' wide trailer with both a '90 Mazda B2600i pickup and a '91 Sonoma long bed, 4.3L pickup. The Sonoma is probably closer to your Tacoma and it did a great job towing. The big difference, and it is a big one, is the Sonoma was a lot lower than the Tacoma. The track, width between wheels side to side, is the same for both vehicles but the Tacoma sits much higher off the ground. This makes the Tacoma much more susceptible to sway induced by the trailer. Bottom line to this is, you are wise to stick with the popup. Hugh > Bottom line to this is, you are wise to stick with the popup. > Hugh Or buy a real truck. Steve >Or buy a real truck. > >Steve Thanks Steve. That was very useful. D.Williams It wasn't a totally flippant answer. (close though) I mean really, isn't a tacoma a toyota or something like that? Be American, Buy American. If you want to tow, then buy a tow vehicle. SignatureSteve Barker >>Or buy a real truck. >> >>Steve >> > Thanks Steve. That was very useful. > D.Williams > It wasn't a totally flippant answer. (close though) I mean really, isn't > a tacoma a toyota or something like that? Be American, Buy American. If > you want to tow, then buy a tow vehicle. We see these endless parade of questions and comments here that boil down to: Can I tow a trailer with my VW if I use the right hitch? My favorite is: The salesman says it will tow that much. Easily. And I love the comment, "My truck is rated for 6,500#, so I figured a trailer that weighed 6,500# would be perfect." Hey, go for it. Go hook it up and go. Steve >And I love the comment, "My truck is rated for 6,500#, so I figured a >trailer that weighed 6,500# would be perfect." > >Hey, go for it. Go hook it up and go. > >Steve Let's see, I believe I said " My truck is rated at 6500 lbs towing capacity. The trailer specs are 3778 GVW", not "My truck is rated for 6,500#, so I figured a trailer that weighed 6,500# would be perfect." And I was looking for some information from someone who might have some practical experience with pulling a trailer that size with a TRUCK like mine. I actually received some from someone named, amazingly enough, Steve. I did expect some flippant answers, because this is, after all, usenet. Oh, and I am American, regardless of whether I happen to have a truck that comes from another country. I'm sure you have absolutely nothing in your home that was not made in the good old US of A, do you? (And I promised myself not to get pulled into these kinds of "discussions". Alas.) D.Williams >>And I love the comment, "My truck is rated for 6,500#, so I figured a >>trailer that weighed 6,500# would be perfect." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to get pulled into these kinds of "discussions". Alas.) > D.Williams Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. Steve >Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, too, that >you can't afford a real American full sized truck. > >Steve Yeah, me too. I'm also sorry that I posted my question in the first place. I actually know better. It can be amusing though. So, have a good day Steve. We'll just agree to disagree on this topic. D.Williams > Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, > too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. Sounds like his truck has the towing capacity of a Dodge Dakota. He may think that he has a full size truck, but the tow rating says otherwise. Kind of like putting a small gas 6 cylinder in an F-150. Not a good way to spend your money. They never did put a 'small' 6 cylinder in an F-150. In fact, the ONLY inline 6-cylinder used in an F-150 is 300 cubic inches and will out pull a 302 anyday. SignatureSteve Barker >> Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, >> too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > like putting a small gas 6 cylinder in an F-150. > Not a good way to spend your money. > They never did put a 'small' 6 cylinder in an F-150. In fact, the > ONLY inline 6-cylinder used in an F-150 is 300 cubic inches and will > out pull a 302 anyday. I said it would be "like" doing this. I never stated that it had ever been done. > Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, > too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. Let's get another Steve's point of view in here just to muddy the water a little more. :) I own one of those full size "American" trucks. It's a Dodge 2500 with the Cummins engine. Would that be considered a full size American truck by you? I just checked the VIN and guess what? It starts with a 3 not a 1. That darn truck was assembled in Mexico! And to top it off Dodge is owned by a German company. Heck, I bet there's a good possibility that the Tacoma in question has a VIN that starts with a 1. Just trying to point out that things aren't the way they used to be anymore. :) SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain Makes no nevermind where it was assembled. Dodge is an AMERICAN company. Tiota is a JAP company. SignatureSteve Barker >> Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, >> too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a 1. Just trying to point out that things aren't the way they used to > be anymore. :) > Makes no nevermind where it was assembled. Interesting since the money paid to the workers to assemble my truck unfortunately went to Mexicans, and I bet the money to assemble most Toyotas sold in the U.S. is paid to Americans. Kind of goofy eh? :) > Dodge is an AMERICAN company. Tiota is a JAP company. Hate to be the bearer of bad news partner, but Dodge is owned by DaimlerChrysler which is a GERMAN company. SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV My ex-wife always gave me sound advice. . . 99% sound, 1% advice. What you said is true, BUT the PROFIT goes where? To the japs. SignatureSteve Barker >> Makes no nevermind where it was assembled. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hate to be the bearer of bad news partner, but Dodge is owned by > DaimlerChrysler which is a GERMAN company. > What you said is true, BUT the PROFIT goes where? To the japs. Just like Dodge (DalimerChrylser) profits go to Germany. What is your point? You can thank your congress-critters for "free-trade" instead of fair trade policies. :) SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV What if the HOKEY POKEY really is what it's all about? I see where Steve <eye-dunno@i-4-got.invalid> contributed: >Just like Dodge (DalimerChrylser) profits go to Germany. Sorry, but the notion that profits go to HQ (whether Stuttgart or Bentonville) overlooks the truth - that "profits" are distributed throughout the jurisdiction in which business is conducted. Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill > I see where Steve <eye-dunno@i-4-got.invalid> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bentonville) overlooks the truth - that "profits" are distributed > throughout the jurisdiction in which business is conducted. Then gee, I guess those Toyota profits do the same thing then. :) The only thing I was originally trying to point out is that my "American" Dodge wasn't so "American" after all. Just like Toyota isn't all "Japanese." SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar. - Mark Twain I see where Steve <eye-dunno@i-4-got.invalid> contributed: >>>Just like Dodge (DalimerChrylser) profits go to Germany. Will: >> Sorry, but the notion that profits go to HQ (whether Stuttgart or >> Bentonville) overlooks the truth - that "profits" are distributed >> throughout the jurisdiction in which business is conducted. S: >Then gee, I guess those Toyota profits do the same thing then. :) Depnds on how you define "profit". If you mean only what's left over after all business expenses are paid, profits are distributed to stockholders, where ever they are. If 'profit' is defined as the difference between the naked cost to buy or produce and the eventual selling price, then a much larger group gets a share (employees, contractors, transportation, jurisdictions levying taxes, etc). Either way, profit does NOT go just to HQ. Got it? Will Sill The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill >I see where Steve <eye-dunno@i-4-got.invalid> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill It does if you're a trilateralist Bilderberger one world government conspiracy paranoid theorist. Steve > I see where Steve <eye-dunno@i-4-got.invalid> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Will Sill > The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Actually, profits go to the share holders. SignatureFrank Tabor Your temporary financial embarrassment will be relieved in a surprising manner. > What you said is true, BUT the PROFIT goes where? To the stockholders and back into the company. You can be assured that Toyota stockholders comprise MANY races. > To the japs. You act like you were in Bataan in 1942. Sheesh! Signature:\ JR >> Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, >> too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a 1. Just trying to point out that things aren't the way they used to > be anymore. :) Yeah. And I guess the computer you are using, the chair you're setting on, and all the clothing you are wearing are Made In The USA. Right? Steve >>> Sorry that I was generalizing, and you took it personally. Sorry, >>> too, that you can't afford a real American full sized truck. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Steve Careful now Steve, make sure you're not getting the Steve's mixed up on who said what. :) SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV What if the HOKEY POKEY really is what it's all about? I see where DLW <donsongs@remove.this.dlwilliams.andthis.net> whined: >Let's see, I believe I said " My truck is rated at 6500 lbs towing >capacity. The trailer specs are 3778 GVW", not "My truck is rated [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >not made in the good old US of A, do you? (And I promised myself not >to get pulled into these kinds of "discussions". Alas.) Dear DW: Free advice for you: When you ask a question, shut up and read the answers. Some answers will be useful and accurate. Some will be smartass remarks. Some of the advice will be stupid or worse. SOMETIMES the very best advice will be delivered bluntly, with no particular regard to political correctness. Regardless, if you decide to argue, you quickly lose the interest of participants who would otherwise share their comments. FWIW. Will Sill Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often. >Dear DW: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >FWIW. Thanks, and point taken. I'm shuttin' up now. D.Williams Not my vehicles, that's for sure. Nor any other products that I have the option of buying American on. SignatureSteve Barker I'm sure you have absolutely nothing in your home that was > not made in the good old US of A, do you? D.Williams Join the millennium Steve, Most Toyotas are built in Georgia or Iowa. By Americans. > It wasn't a totally flippant answer. (close though) I mean really, isn't > a tacoma a toyota or something like that? Be American, Buy American. If [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Thanks Steve. That was very useful. >> D.Williams > Join the millennium Steve, Most Toyotas are built in Georgia or Iowa. By > Americans. Sort of. Assembled by Japanese made robots attended by Americans. All the parts come by container ship on a "as needed" schedule. Smart marketing. Cheaper than assembling in Japan, shipping fewer cars per ship and suffering shipping damage on ships. However, it is getting to where many American Brand cars are the same. Many of those that are assembled here are made from parts flowing in from outside the country. From what I can determine they charge their Value Added Tax on U.S. products but then sell theirs here without VAT added. Since U.S. products also have Social Security and Income tax for labor added it seems pretty hard to compete. >> Join the millennium Steve, Most Toyotas are built in Georgia or Iowa. By >> Americans. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > also have Social Security and Income tax for labor added it seems pretty > hard to compete. I don't think that will be much of a problem for much longer from what I have seen. Steve ASSEMBLED by Americans. And the PROFIT goes to the japs. jap company, jap profit. SignatureSteve Barker > Join the millennium Steve, Most Toyotas are built in Georgia or Iowa. By > Americans. I hate having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent, but do you not consider wages paid and benefits earned to be profits? Do you not consider employing Americans to assemble the vehicles to be a profit to those employees? I live in Maine, where LL Bean is based. Once upon a time, maybe as near as 20 years ago, every single item in the store said "made in USA" on it. This is not longer the truth. As a matter of fact, you would be hard pressed to spend the day in the massive building and find a handful of things that say "made in USA". Why? Because Cambodian, Indian, Chinese, and Ethiopian workers are willing to work 12 hour days for 2 or 3 US dollars (equivalent), and our government has thrown open the doors to "free" trade. Nothing is free. We are paying the price. Yes we have less expensive goods to buy, but we are a country that is no longer independent in any way. We used to be a country of "makers and doers". Now we are a country of paper pushers. Don't believe me? Try and hire any kind of tradesman. An electrician, plumber or, God forbid, a mason. Good luck. Hope you have a year to wait and lots of money to pay. No one wants their kids to have dirty hands. Those few who can still "make and do" are cleaning up. I personally own a mechanical repair shop. I doubt my husband's grandfather, who started this business in 1949, could have ever envisioned charging out at $65 an hour... and we have a wait list of people who need service. Why? Because the dealerships are charging out at $78-85 an hour. But because we work on cars for a living, we just ordered a brand new 2007 Toyota Tundra truck... the new heavy duty model that is just coming out now. Because after years of working on GMC, Ford and Dodge trucks, my husband will not own such a poorly made piece of equipment. But we appreciate people who feel the need to buy them. They make it possible to go away on vacation frequently. Thus we are also purchasing a 5th wheel trailer to pull with that new truck. And THAT just put this post back on topic. Momma > ASSEMBLED by Americans. And the PROFIT goes to the japs. jap company, > jap profit. > >> Join the millennium Steve, Most Toyotas are built in Georgia or Iowa. By >> Americans. >>Or buy a real truck. >> >>Steve >> > Thanks Steve. That was very useful. > D.Williams Only if you follow it. Steve >I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently >pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Comments? >D.Williams No one has mentioned the Casita or the Scamp. Fiberglass eggs, light and maneuverable. Google for them. http://www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings >>I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently >>pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings Also take a look at the hi-low TT who may have a suitable model. http://www.hilotrailer.com/ SignatureGreg H Near Edmonton, Alberta (remove the 9 to reply) >>I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently >>pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings And no one has mentioned vintage Burro. I had an '86 U-Haul Burro that I got for $200. I sold it for $4300 on ebay. Quite a rig, actually. Small, but quite a rig. Solar battery charger, fluorescent lights, water pump, sink, stove, fridge, lots of goodies in a small trailer. And you could SAFELY haul it with a smaller vehicle. 2500#, IIRC. Steve >I have a 2006 Tocama with the factory towing package. I am currently >pulling a pop-up with no problem. Eventually I would like to move up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Comments? >D.Williams Thanks to all who took the time to respond. As I said earlier, I believe I'll keep the pop up for a few more years. After all, right now it's just me using it and it serves my purpose just fine. D.Williams |
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