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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / February 2007

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Graywater question - old Apollo MH

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Carla Fong - 02 Feb 2007 15:59 GMT
Hello -

I'm new to the group and new to RV'ing - sort of getting into it through
the back door -

We recently purchased a used 73 Apollo motorhome from our local Goodwill
store - yes, it's over 30 years old. Yes, I've read the newsgroup and
figure we bought a wagonload of trouble. At least this thing's troubles
will be mostly mechanical, not emotional or interpersonal - I can handle
that. And besides, we spent just $400 on a complete 25' motorhome in
pretty good shape for its age. I'm told that just the Onan 4Kw 1800 RPM
generator (with 320 hours on it) is worth more than we paid for the
whole thing.

Enough apologizing - now for my question:

The books from the library say that there are usually two waste tanks -
one 'black' sewer tank and a 'gray' tank for the less noxious waste from
the shower, kitchen and bath sink.

This appears to have only one tank, and a strange plumbing arrangement
in which the graywater drains do not connect to any sort of holding tank
but just end at a 'Y" connection immediately prior to the main dump
valve. There is also a separate gate valve between the black tank and
the dump valve.

It appears that there is no holding capacity for graywater. It looks
like  the gray drains work only when connected to a dump site, unless we
open the gate valve to the black tank and 'backfeed' graywater into it.
This seems odd.

Is there another owner of a similar motorhome out there that can tell me
how this is supposed to work?

Thanks in advance -

Carla
Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to
prove that the other party is unfit to rule -- and both commonly
succeed, and are right.  --- H.L. Mencken
Will Sill - 02 Feb 2007 16:15 GMT
I see where Carla Fong <carla.xspamx.fong@verizon.net> contributed:

>This appears to have only one tank,

Many RV's had no holding tank for grey water.   Since there are very
few places where dumping grey water is both legal and acceptable these
days, the lowest-cost solution is to take along one of the portable
waste tanks.

Will Sill
The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Dan Listermann - 02 Feb 2007 17:00 GMT
Our 84 Toyota Dolphin has only one tank, but the gray dumps into it as well
as the black.  It was really no problem.  Our new Sunseeker has three tanks.
. .

Dan

> Hello -
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> prove that the other party is unfit to rule -- and both commonly succeed,
> and are right.  --- H.L. Mencken
Dapper Dave - 02 Feb 2007 18:08 GMT
>Carla Fong <carla.xspamx.fong@verizon.net> wrote:

>This appears to have only one tank, and a strange plumbing arrangement
>in which the graywater drains do not connect to any sort of holding tank
>but just end at a 'Y" connection immediately prior to the main dump
>valve. There is also a separate gate valve between the black tank and
>the dump valve.

For an old rig with no gray water tank, the simplest solution is
probably to re-plumb it so the gray water dumps into the black water
tank. The next best solution is to use a blue boy to schlep your gray
water to the dump station, but that means your en route gray water
capacity is the volume of water the drain pipes can hold.

Signature

DD

mikeyhsd - 02 Feb 2007 18:46 GMT
in the olden days not many had grey tanks. the water just drained straight out.
solution, be connected to sewer all the time. or use a portable tank.

mikeyhsd@sport.rr.com

 Hello -

 I'm new to the group and new to RV'ing - sort of getting into it through
 the back door -

 We recently purchased a used 73 Apollo motorhome from our local Goodwill
 store - yes, it's over 30 years old. Yes, I've read the newsgroup and
 figure we bought a wagonload of trouble. At least this thing's troubles
 will be mostly mechanical, not emotional or interpersonal - I can handle
 that. And besides, we spent just $400 on a complete 25' motorhome in
 pretty good shape for its age. I'm told that just the Onan 4Kw 1800 RPM
 generator (with 320 hours on it) is worth more than we paid for the
 whole thing.

 Enough apologizing - now for my question:

 The books from the library say that there are usually two waste tanks -
 one 'black' sewer tank and a 'gray' tank for the less noxious waste from
 the shower, kitchen and bath sink.

 This appears to have only one tank, and a strange plumbing arrangement
 in which the graywater drains do not connect to any sort of holding tank
 but just end at a 'Y" connection immediately prior to the main dump
 valve. There is also a separate gate valve between the black tank and
 the dump valve.

 It appears that there is no holding capacity for graywater. It looks
 like  the gray drains work only when connected to a dump site, unless we
 open the gate valve to the black tank and 'backfeed' graywater into it.
 This seems odd.

 Is there another owner of a similar motorhome out there that can tell me
 how this is supposed to work?

 Thanks in advance -

 Carla
 Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to
 prove that the other party is unfit to rule -- and both commonly
 succeed, and are right.  --- H.L. Mencken
Jim Redelfs - 03 Feb 2007 00:37 GMT
> It appears that there is no holding capacity for graywater.

I have decided that, in 1973 and earlier, RVers weren't so persnickety about
draining gray water on the ground.  Given that, I believe that some (many?)
RVs were built without a gray water tank.

I am a practitioner of this disgusting (to some) activity - where it's allowed.

When we were tenting and bathing at the campsite behind a homemade "stall"
comprised of clothesline and blankets we did not capture the gray water.  When
we washed our dishes, we did not capture our gray water.  When we brushed our
teeth at the picnic table, we did not capture the gray water.  That was
acceptable.  Somehow, if the same gray water is generated from within an RV,
the gray water becomes radioactive and a threat to the environment, not to
mention the sensibilities of some others.  I don't buy it.

> how this is supposed to work?

Draining gray water on the ground is legal in MANY places.  While camped in an
electric (only) site for a WEEK, I drained our full-timing gray water from the
end of a 20-ft hose into the grass nearby.  At the end of the week, there was
an area of "stuff" (probably cooking grease) no larger than a Frisbee.  It
didn't attract flies, varmints, the park ranger or space aliens.  It didn't
glow in the dark or even make a "mushy" spot.

Draining gray water on the ground is NOT allowed in, for example, federal
campgrounds.  Given the heavy usage of such facilities, I understand
completely.  Likewise, every private campground I have patronized forbade the
practice.  Given the heavy usage - and HIGH DENSITY (closely-spaced) sites -
combined with the full-hookups available, the ban is understandable.

As Will said, the practice of draining gray water on the ground is against the
rules in some places, particularly heavily-used campsites.  Just ask the park
superintendent if it's allowed.

If it is NOT allowed, you may wish to purchase a tank especially designed to
capture gray and black water.  They are worth EVERY penny that they cost.  I
have a two-wheeled, 30-gallon model.  Of course, I don't use it very often.

<http://www.barkermfg.com/product_pages/tote_alongs.html>
Signature

           :)
JR

2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000

allmuxedup@gmail.com - 03 Feb 2007 14:47 GMT
Sounds like you got a pretty sweet deal.  Even if you dump a boatload
of $$ into it, you'll still come out ahead!
No one has mentioned this yet... Even when you are at a full hookup
sight... Do NOT leave your Black water tank open!  The solids w/ stick
to the bottom of the tank while the liquid drains.  You'll end up w/ a
tank full of solid waste, that has possbily dried & w/be hard to
remove.  Also Do NOT (if really big,bold,italized letters) use tank
chems w/ formaldehyde!  This stuff is causing dump stations accross
the country to close!  It kills off the bacteria in the big dump
station tank & causes a stinky biohazard!
There are lots of other things to learn (Don't set up camp at
WalMart... ruins it for the rest of us, and... batteries! & lot's of
other stuff too) The best all around source is Phred's Poop Sheets.
http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html
Good camping to you!

Evelyn
Carla Fong - 04 Feb 2007 16:23 GMT
> Sounds like you got a pretty sweet deal.  Even if you dump a boatload
> of $$ into it, you'll still come out ahead!
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Evelyn

My sincere thanks to everyone who answered my original question - and
even more so for the additional information provided.

I probably never would have found the web site in this post on my own -
it's wonderful! Answers about a thousand questions I didn't even know to
ask!

Thanks again,

Carla
"Duct Tape No Substitute for a Babysitter, Police Say"--headline, CNN.com
 
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