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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / March 2007Anyone tried special ordering thru dealer?
Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an invoice plus basis? Dealers will sometimes do this on a special order new car, especially if they don't have the model you want on inventory and you're not in any big rush. This gives them a guaranteed sale, adding only the prep, delivery, taxes, plus small commission. Just an off-the-wall thought. Thanks! > Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an > invoice [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > adding > only the prep, delivery, taxes, plus small commission. Don't even bring up prep, taxes, delivery, profits or commissions. You don't need to know or care what these charges are. When you get these items into the conversation, the cost start going up with evey question asked. The price you want is the total cost hooked to your tow vehicle ready to pull off their lot. The trailer I have now was spec'd out by me from the manufacturer's website. I sent the specs to 4 dealers asking for the total out the door price, hooked to my truck reciever. I told them I was going to buy from the dealer with the lowest price. The 1st round of quotes brought a quote from all 4, but the 2nd rould I had 3 dealers still in the hunt. I those again of the lowest quote and ask if they wanted to give me a lower quote. I then had 2 still bidding for the sale. I went back and fort between those 2 at that point and lowered the cost another $2,000 before I was left with the lowest cost. Luck would have it that the low cost dealer was less than 50 miles away. Doing it this way lowered the original lowest offer of over $34,000 to under $25,000. This was in the fqll of 1985 on a 1986 model to be delivered in mid Janurary, 1986. It's still a good trailer after over 200,000 miles!! ;-) Tom J > > Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an > > invoice [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Tom J That's precisely what I had in mind doing, having bought 3 cars in exactly this way -- with regular bid offers mailed directly to 5 different sales managers. Now that I'm only interested in buying a 2007 Winnebago Outlook (Class C), the only price I'm able to find in the MSRP. Where do you locate the invoice price? digger >>> Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an >>> invoice [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > locate > the invoice price? That gets right back to profits and commissions and has nothing to do with final delivery price, since all the dealers will be paying the same for the rig. Remember, keep all conversation on delivered cost!! Tom J > Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV > on an invoice plus basis? I did just that with my 1987 Starcraft Galaxy folding trailer. The folks at Starcraft were quite accommodating. The local dealer nearly had a heart attack. I wanted one WITHOUT a roof vent. I envisioned a factory where there were a dozen or so roofs lined-up where the kid with the rip saw blew a 14x14-inch hole in each. I thought it would be easy to skip mine. After talking with Starcraft I approached the dealer. Before even ORDERING the camper, in trying to talk me out of a special order, they showed me all the REPLACEMENT covers and caps for my roof vent when it was finally needed! Anyway, I proceeded with the special order. When it finally arrived, the transport driver, hauling a load of 8-10 popup campers, accidentally dropped a loading ramp on the roof of ONE of them. Guess which one? <sigh>  Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an invoice > plus basis? Dealers will sometimes do this on a special order new [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks! I bought two high-end fifth wheels that way. The first one was specked out at the factory, but I had already chosen a dealer as they would not work with me unless I had a dealer in their system. The salesman, it turned out, was angry at his boss and about to quit so we got that rig at less than dealer cost, but that doesn't happen very often <g> The last one was specked out with the factory, too. I had a dealer in mind, so the factory rep worked with me, but the dealer renegged on the agreed terms and I walked out. I got the fax numbers of several dealers and sent them the specs. They got back to me with prices. I countered with my offer: I knew how to calculate dealer cost on that brand of fifth wheel. I calculated dealer cost and added 10% profit. I asked for NADA wholesale for my trade. Dealer prep, tax and tagging were not negotiated, but I made it clear that the 10% profit did NOT include those charges. I also offered to pay their going shop rate for anything extra I had done. Most notably the transfer of our gen set from one trailer to the other. Though I had cash to pay, I offered to take out a small loan so that the dealer could get a kick back from the lending company. I held the loan for 6 months and the interest I paid was less than the dealer got as a kick back (a lot less) so I still saved and the dealer made extra money. I will admit that it was not easy to find a dealer who would work with me. Some of them even got together and fixed their price on the rig I was buying. AFAIK, the majority of manufacturers will not work with you unless you have some kind of commitment to work with one of their dealers. You can put together the specs with any dealer then shop for a better price at another dealer. There is no obligation to buy from the dealer who does the pricing with the factory. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > > Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an invoice > > plus basis? Dealers will sometimes do this on a special order new [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Bad spelling. Bad punctuation > Good Friends. Good Life Very impressive strategy AND results! The sticky part would seem to be finding a conduit to the manufacturer (or the mfg. rep) either before or after enlisting the aid of a dealer. Not an easy task, by any stretch. Thanks for the insight. digger >Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an invoice >plus basis? Dealers will sometimes do this on a special order new >car, especially if they don't have the model you want on inventory and >you're not in any big rush. This gives them a guaranteed sale, adding >only the prep, delivery, taxes, plus small commission. Although I do that on cars, I with our RV, I already knew pretty much down to the last penny, what the dealer invoice price would be before ordering. My primary recommendation would be to deal with a high-volume dealer, who doesn't have the time nor inclination to extract that very last dime outta the deal. Small dealers are small because they think small! When we bought our new Winnie, we started out by telling the dealer that we wanted to buy a 32' Winnebago Adventurer. Dealer: So what options do you want; Me: Dunno; Dealer: [Handing me a sheet of full listing of options with prices] When you know, give me a call! [Dealer walks away] Me: [Two days later calling the dealer] "I've decided on the options I want." Dealer: "We already have a 32' Winnie on the assembly line, but haven't yet decided on options. [Too busy to fiddle with details] Hold on a moment while I connect you with Winnebago. When they answer, just tell them what you want." After giving Winnebago our list of options . . . Dealer: "Okay . . . that rig has your name on it. Give me your phone number, and I'll give you a call when your new rig comes in." Six weeks later, the dealer gives me a call, "Your new motorhome just arrived!!" So we go to visit the dealer. Not a local Toronto dealer, but an high-volume dealer located in a tiny rural community, three hours outta town. (Sicard Holiday Campers, Smithville, Ontario). So, we drive to Smallville to pick up our new rig. This rig didn't merely have a routine list of options, but custom options not available on the assembly line, which had to be installed by their service facility. The point being, that prior to our new custom built rig arriving on the dealer's lot; we had never at any time discussed price, nor paid so much as a plug nickel as a deposit!! The entire transaction had been completed within an hour. On a $100,000 deal, the majority of our time was spend resolving a mere $300 discrepancy in delivery charges. With all of his invoices and paperwork on the table in front of me, the dealer proved that the schedule of delivery fees used south-of-the-border, are not applicable to Canadian deliveries. :-) Stan Birch Newmarket, Ontario On Mar 6, 5:58 pm, stan.bi...@hotmail.com wrote: > >Just curious to know if anyone has tried ordering an RV on an invoice > >plus basis? Dealers will sometimes do this on a special order new [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Stan Birch > Newmarket, Ontario Several major questions arise. First and foremost, when you say "I already knew pretty much down to the last penny what the dealer invoice price would be before ordering," where on the internet did you find that information? On what basis did you claim that you had been overcharged $300 on delivery? Unless I miss my guess, we've been led to believe that Winnebago charges everybody one flat delivery fee (US & Canada) to discourage buyers from shopping close to the factory. But the delivery fees to Canads are $300 higher than the US? Since you live across the border from me (Buffalo), I'm wondering if it makes any sense to compare US and Canadian MSRPs? Finally, your comment "This rig didn't merely have a routine list of options but custom options not available on the assembly line," also surprised me. I left to wonder whether the 11 optional features that I selected from the Winnebago brochure, can only be installed by the dealer? This whole operation is beginning to sound like a Chinese firedrill. <grin> digger >Several major questions arise. > >First and foremost, when you say "I already knew pretty much >down to the last penny what the dealer invoice price would be before >ordering," where on the internet did you find that information? That was way back in 1998! Nevertheless, the same general principals probably still apply today. At that time, the MSRP sticker price for low end Winnebagos (in my case an Adventurer) was based upon a 38% markup; and their flagship high end diesel pusher (forget the name) was 62%. So . . the actual dealer cost of my low end 38% - markup rig was: 1/(1+.38) * $MSRP which in terms of discount, was about 27.5% off of MSRP. And that's pretty standard today when dealers routinely advertise their rigs at a 25% discount. >On what basis did you claim that you had been overcharged $300 on >delivery? Unless I miss my guess, we've been led to believe that >Winnebago charges everybody one flat delivery fee (US & Canada) to >discourage buyers from shopping close to the factory. That was basically my understanding . . . same delivery charge for all dealers within 2000 miles of the factory. > But the delivery fees to Canada are $300 higher than the US? That's the way the invoice read. >Since you live across the border from me (Buffalo), I'm wondering if >it makes any sense to compare US and Canadian MSRPs? My figures were entirely based upon US figures, i.e. Bleakley in Atlanta; a volume dealer. But back then when the Canadian $$ was running around 62 - 65 cents on any given day, I prepared a chart of cost variables, based upon the value of the Canadian dollar on any given day. It was just my luck, that the rig was delivered on a 65 cent day; so those were the figures I used. :-( >Finally, your comment "This rig didn't merely have a routine list of >options but custom options not available on the assembly line," also >surprised me. I left to wonder whether the 11 optional features that >I selected from the Winnebago brochure, can only be installed by the >dealer? Any options on the list are installed on the assembly line. Although having done a lot of winter travelling, we chose dual-pain (sic) windoze, they were an unusual and expensive option at that time. The custom stuff had to do with high end seating, not available from the assembly line. Not something that worked out all that favourably. Instead of getting the expected Flexsteel seats, we ended up with high-end total crap "manufactured" (and I use that term loosely) by Winnebago in their new seat manufacturing facility. Our seats were merely a very bad beta version of a very bad idea! On Mar 8, 7:08 pm, stan.bi...@hotmail.com wrote: > >Several major questions arise. > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Winnebago in their new seat manufacturing facility. Our seats were > merely a very bad beta version of a very bad idea! THANKS!! You've been a great help. Was that meant to be a tongue-in- cheek misspelling of dual-PAIN windows, considering how they turned out? > Was that meant to be a tongue-in- >cheek misspelling of dual-PAIN windows, considering how they turned >out? At last count, I think that about 7 of them have to be replaced. :-( >> Was that meant to be a tongue-in->cheek misspelling of dual-PAIN >> windows, considering how they turned out? > At last count, I think that about 7 of them have to be replaced. :-( Thermopane or dual-pane windows are about No. 1 on my "must have list" for our next rig. This is the first I've read of trouble with them. What's the story? Do they lose their seal between the panes? (As with those in my home?) Is there more than one manufacturer for the windows? TIA. Signature:) JR >>> Was that meant to be a tongue-in->cheek misspelling of dual-PAIN >>> windows, considering how they turned out? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >story? Do they lose their seal between the panes? (As with those in my home?) >Is there more than one manufacturer for the windows? TIA. Yeh, the seals have been compromised to varying degrees. The worst one is one of those small ones that sits above the passenger side window . . . not something you would actually look through. Only one other window accumulates moisture on a regular basis; and the remainder only steam-up occasionally. So I don't intend to replace them all tomorrow. My rig is now eight years old. I don't know if my experience is pretty much par for the course, but I've read enough similar reports from others enjoying the same experience, to convince me that my experience isn't particularly unique. :-( I just finished spending $12,000 to replace most of the windows in my 18 year old house. The vendor/installer who has been a respected corporate citizen for the past 50 years, has provided me with a lifetime guarantee. Not sure who's lifetime, but I would assume that it's something they normally offer to us old farts. :-) Winnebago dual-pane windows are manufactured by Atwood Mobile, the same company that those temperamental water heaters along with a bunch of other RV stuff. There was a time when RVers could order new glass directly from Atwood in Indiana. Prices were pretty reasonable: something like $60 for a medium sized window plus the expected $80 or so for shipping glass! I'm not sure of the current status of the Atwood operation, but I've heard rumblings over the last few months, about Atwood closing down at least some of their operations. If Atwood discontinues direct customer service in this area, then the cost of a shipped $150 window could easily rise to $1000 once distributors and dealers glean their pound of flesh from the transaction! When I ordered my rig, the cost of upgrading windows to dual-pane, ran around $900 US$. Now, inclusion of dual pane windows is pretty much standard, and no longer considered an option. Living in the Toronto area, and camping locally well into December with the snow swirling all around us; not to mention the mid-winter trek to the south; dual pane glass is a vast improvement from our window drip-drip-drip TT days with single pane glass. With dual-pane, we haven't experienced any condensation on the inside of the rig. Measurements of the glass temperature under sub-freezing temperatures are only 6F over single-pane; but that seems to be all that's needed to eliminate condensation in a reasonably vented coach. For cold weather camping, dual-pane offers a significant benefit. But if my primary concern was merely noise or heat reduction, then they are not worth the additional aggravation! > For cold weather camping, dual-pane offers a significant benefit. Thanks for the long, informative reply, Stan. > if my primary concern was merely noise or heat reduction, then > they are not worth the additional aggravation! My primary goal is reduction or elimination of condensation when camping in cold weather. Noise reduction is a distant second goal for such windows so it sounds like they'd be worth the extra price for me. Signature:) JR > In article <7bm3v21009inlu6c17ugoa92b9mipf5...@4ax.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > if my primary concern was merely noise or heat reduction, then > > they are not worth the additional aggravation! > My primary goal is reduction or elimination of condensation when camping in > cold weather. Noise reduction is a distant second goal for such windows so it > sounds like they'd be worth the extra price for me. > -- > :) > JR I'm in much the same situation, living in Buffalo, NY and planning on some chilly camping in my new Outlook. However, it sound like (from Stan above), "inclusion of dual pane windows is pretty much standard, and no longer considered an option." Good news or bad? > > In article <7bm3v21009inlu6c17ugoa92b9mipf5...@4ax.com>, > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Stan above), "inclusion of dual pane windows is pretty much standard, > and no longer considered an option." Good news or bad? Depends on the brand. Some low end units they will not even be available. Signature-------------------------------------------------------- Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv >> it sounds like (from Stan above), "inclusion of dual pane windows >> is pretty much standard, and no longer considered an option." >> Good news or bad? > Depends on the brand. Some low end units they will > not even be available. That is my understanding. Based on my research, dual-pane windows are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. They are available as OPTIONS on ONLY mid-to-high-end towables. On lesser units, they aren't available at all. I've done much less research on motorhomes, but what little I've done reveals about the same. Signature:) JR >In article Ralph E Lindberg <n7bsn@callsign.net> wrote: > >> Depends on the brand. Some low end units they will >> not even be available. >That is my understanding. > >Based on my research, dual-pane windows are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. They >are available as OPTIONS on ONLY mid-to-high-end towables. On lesser units, >they aren't available at all. I've done much less research on motorhomes, but >what little I've done reveals about the same. I suppose I jumped to unwarranted conclusions based upon my own experience with Winnebago. When I bought my '99 Adventurer, dual-pane windows were an option. More recent versions of the same model didn't offer that option: they all came with dual pane as standard. In rechecking, other models, the very lowest end class A doesn't offer dual pane even as an option. The next two models up, the Sightseer and Voyageur, offer dual pane as an option. From there on up, dual pane is standard equipment. >Jim Redelfs <jim.redelfs@NOSPAMredelfs.com> wrote: >Based on my research, dual-pane windows are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. They >are available as OPTIONS on ONLY mid-to-high-end towables. On lesser units, >they aren't available at all. I've done much less research on motorhomes, but >what little I've done reveals about the same. Monaco is the largest manufacturer of diesel pushers. We have owned two "mid-range" Monaco motor homes. Dual pane windows were standard equipment on both. SignatureDave |
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