 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / April 2007Fleetwood Motor Home Problems
Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the problems that I had with mine. >Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the >problems that I had with mine. Wow!! As a welder from times past and long ago; the pics you posted look like something from an after-school punishment routine, done as a project by a bunch of unqualified delinquent high-school kidz!!! For the past decade or so, I've never been offerred so much as a modicum of evidence suggesting that Fleetwood products don't represent the very bottom of the barrel in terms of quality. Yes the pictures are pretty bad. Another thing is that Fleetwood is dragging their feet about doing anything to fix it. I will be going down, for the 3rd time for an Authorized dealer to take pictures again. You would think that a company like fleetwood would give their authorized dealers some slack to make the decission to solve problems. >>Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >modicum of evidence suggesting that Fleetwood products don't represent >the very bottom of the barrel in terms of quality. don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. guess that means straw instead of foam in the cushions. mikeyhsd@comcast.net Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the problems that I had with mine. >don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. >guess that means straw instead of foam in the cushions. Ford tried that with their A motorhome chassis back in 1999. After a year or two, everything was moved back stateside. :-) > don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. > > guess that means straw instead of foam in the cushions. > Most of their workers in CA are Mexicans. We had a truck that was mostly built in Mexico and it was a great truck. We live close to the border and the workers here who are Mexican nationals take tremendous pride in their work. I'd rather have a conscientious Mexican build my RV than a lazy union protected American. Why do you think the big 3 US car makers are so far behind the foreign producers?  SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. >> guess that means straw instead of foam in the cushions. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > protected American. Why do you think the big 3 US car makers are so > far behind the foreign producers? It's more of a price issue than a quality issue with American built cars. Because of the unions and the contracts they extorted along with the overhead because of retirement plans for lots of retired union workers, the American big three have to charge more for their cars to make a profit to keep the company solvent. Shad O'Shay It seems like it has been this way for a long time. I remember the earlier foreign cars had little extras that the American cars didn't come out with until years later. Places for maps, sun glass, adjustable speed wipers and etc. Mike >>> don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. >>> guess that means straw instead of foam in the cushions. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Shad O'Shay Probably. I hate to say we aren't making good products anymore. >don't forget they are moving some production to mexico. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the > problems that I had with mine. > Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See > http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the > problems that I had with mine. the frames typically come complete from the supplier. I could only fault Fleetwood for poor inspection. >> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the >> problems that I had with mine. > the frames typically come complete from the supplier. I could only fault > Fleetwood for poor inspection. I don't think that is so. They buy standard frames (chassis) from Workhorse or Ford but then modify them as required. For Mike: We purchased a new, 2003 Pace Arrow MH. I was fooled by the Pace Arrow brand name, thinking it was a high quality rig as it was many years ago. I didn't realize that the Pace Arrow name had been sold to Fleetwood and they were producing their "versions". The frame extension modifications were done in a very similar manner as those on your RV. Basically a hack job. A poor attempt to paint the added frame sections had been made. It looked like someone did it with a spray can of paint from 10 feet away. Most of the new frame section was exposed, bare steel. One very interesting area was a rough cut section of the frame ... looked like it was cut with a torch but never ground smooth ... around which they had run the rubber gas line for the generator. I found this within a week of purchase and the rubber had already been severely chaffed by rubbing against the rough edge of metal. We also had numerous other quality and workmanship issues with that rig, including exterior side panels held with in place with drywall screws that broke, resulting in panels that started flapping around in the wind at 60 mph on the first voyage. We got rid of it within a year in disgust. RCE RCE, Seems like they haven't changed much since you purchased yours. I maybe selling mine in a few years too. Gas prices are a little high right now and I would lose a bundle. Thanks for the info. Mike >>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >RCE No, Fleetwood says they do the extensions for their motorhomes. Ford also says that too. >> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the >> problems that I had with mine. >the frames typically come complete from the supplier. I could only fault >Fleetwood for poor inspection. > Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See > http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the > problems that I had with mine. Your story is not at all unique. Fleetwood's quality control has been a major problem for years. Unfortunately people think that because it's the largest RV maker in the country, it's the best. Most RV purchasers go for floor plan, frills and finance packages and assume that the government is policing the industry as they do with cars and light trucks. The RV industry polices itself through the RVIA, a group of manufacturers who man and pay for the "agency". They would never set standards for products that would cost them money to implement. When it comes to purchasing an RV, the best bet, far from perfect, but most trustworthy organization if the RV Consumer Group. It may be too late for you, but it's a good thing that you posted and put up the page. Other potential buyers of any brand of RVs who have seen it will be looking under the coaches. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life I plan on keeping up with the phone calls. Get a report from a couple of frame welding companies then take legal action. Mike >> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >put up the page. Other potential buyers of any brand of RVs who have >seen it will be looking under the coaches. > I plan on keeping up with the phone calls. Get a report from a couple > of frame welding companies then take legal action. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Just getting back into thew group a little, but here in Lomgview, TX, Fleetwood just closed their plant, putting 300+ out of work. Nahmie > Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See > http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the > problems that I had with mine. You might want to report them to the NHTSB (National Highway Transportation Safety Board). Selling vehicles with defective frames is serious and may promulgate a forced national recall. >> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Safety Board). Selling vehicles with defective frames is serious and may > promulgate a forced national recall. They don't monitor RVs. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > They don't monitor RVs. I am not so sure about that Janet. Look here: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/nteaifraspub.html whereby the NHTSB has granted extensions to meet certain safety requirements imposed on RV manufacturers. The fact that the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) had to file for a ruling indicates they are subject to NHTSB requirements. Also: http://search.google.dot.gov/NHTSA/NHTSASearchProcess.asp?ie=&site=DOT_Pages&out put=xml_no_dtd&client=DOT_Pages&lr=&proxystylesheet=DOT_Pages&oe=&nhtsa_only=1&q =motorhome whereby numerous recalls of motorhomes and RV trailers are listed. RCE >>>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > RCE They issue recalls when a chassis component or tire on a trailer is recalled by the manufacturer. I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. Even a recent refrigerator maker's recall for a problem that could set a rig on fire doesn't make it to NHTSA. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. Today is your lucky day. Here is an RV undergoing frontal, side and other crash testing: http://www.roadtrek.com/safety.asp Vaughn >> I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Vaughn I believe that is voluntary, not mandated as is the auto and light truck industry SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >>> I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I believe that is voluntary, not mandated as is the auto and light truck > industry I read through the supplied link by Vaughn. Almost every test has a FMVSS number after it. That's a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard. Here is what they are: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/index.html As one can see, they apply to RV's as well as cars. Here just one example: "Standard No. 301 - Fuel System Integrity - Passenger Cars (Effective 1-1-68), Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 4,536 kg (10,000 lbs.) or less (Effective 1-76), and School Buses with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating greater than 4,536 kg (10,000 lbs.) (Effective 4-1-77) This standard specifies requirements for the integrity of motor vehicle fuel systems. Its purpose is to reduce deaths and injuries occurring from fires that result from fuel spillage during and after motor vehicle crashes." Note the term "Multipurpose Passenger Vehicle", an RV falls into that category. This type of testing has been mandated since 1967. Note that there are a number of exemptions for vehicles over 10,000 lbs GVWR. The information is all there at your fingertips. All you need is the desire to know and have the effort to look. >>>> I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > The information is all there at your fingertips. All you need is the desire > to know and have the effort to look. I did look. AFAIK, "multi-passenger vehicle over 10,000 lbs. refers to a commercial vehicle. Do you have any evidence that it applies to an RV? As I see it, if it did, all RV manufacturers would be required to crash test their RVs. They don't. They rely upon the chassis manufacturers to take care of that. I have a Workhorse chassis on my motorhome. We recently had a recall to replace a small part that attached to the fuel line. Prior to that there was a recall for the cluster in the dash board. Again, by Workhorse. The recalls I have seen in the monthly issues of "Highways Magazine" are related to the chassis and engines or components supplied by other manufacturers such as refrigerators or tires. The only RV manufacturer related ones listed usually have to do with an improperly installed something that connects to the chassis makers other thing. I owned a Mountain Master conversion Freightliner RV hauler. It had a back seat but no seat belts. I asked the conversion folks if they could put in a seat belt and they told me they couldn't because if they did they would have to crash test one of their $70,000 trucks. RV manufacturers use RVIA to get around some of these issues. When was the last time you saw Fleetwood crash test a Bounder? SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > RV manufacturers use RVIA to get around some of these issues. When was the > last time you saw Fleetwood crash test a Bounder? I believe, as in most other quality control issues, Fleetwood delegates this to the end user <g>. Alan >On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 Alan Robinson" wrote: >I believe, as in most other quality control issues, Fleetwood delegates this >to the end user <g>. Unfortunately . . . ! >>>>> I have never seen nor heard of an RV having to be crash tested. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > RV manufacturers use RVIA to get around some of these issues. When was the > last time you saw Fleetwood crash test a Bounder? It does appear that the large RV's over 10,000 lbs are not crash tested at all. In fact, reading through the link it appears they are exempt from almost all testing. I never realized this and am very glad that you have pointed this out, it is valuable information. Don > It does appear that the large RV's over 10,000 lbs are not crash tested at > all. In fact, reading through the link it appears they are exempt from > almost all testing. I never realized this and am very glad that you have > pointed this out, it is valuable information. Guys and gals, this thread has us terrified. Just last week we spent $48K on a brand new 2007 Tioga 22B (Chevy chassis). Are these frame/welding/construction problems common throughout Fleetwood's line or are they limited to Ford chassis and larger models? The dealer who sold us this unit, as well as others throughout California spoke very highly of Fleetwood. We spent nearly a year researching this, as it's the largest purchase we've ever made. Now we're very worried. > this thread has us terrified. It shouldn't. > Just last week we spent $48K on a > brand new 2007 Tioga 22B (Chevy chassis). Congratulations. You're gonna LOVE it! :) > Are these frame/welding/construction problems common > throughout Fleetwood's line or are they limited to > Ford chassis and larger models? I don't know about the specific welding problems that began this thread, but I suspect you're better off having bought a Class C "mini" motorhome. Everything in the cab area is strictly Chevy's doing as well as the rest of the drive train. They just added a motorhome to a "cutaway chassis" provided/built by Chevrolet/GM. The welds and other quality in all of THESE particular areas should be as good as any pickup or van made by Chevy. Slide-out rooms and other superstructure components are built by the coach manufacturer, Fleetwood in your case. These are the places I would check for quality issues, if any. > The dealer who sold us this unit...spoke very highly of Fleetwood. That is to be expected. > We spent nearly a year researching this, as it's the > largest purchase we've ever made. I have heard good things about Tioga. I see a lot of them on the road. > Now we're very worried. Don't be, especially after you've thoroughly checked-out the unit and found nothing seriously wrong. Now is the time to use the living daylights out of the new motorhome - while the warranty is in effect. Take a note pad with you and go camping. Keep a journal of wants and needs for the new rig and get them taken care of. Warranty work, especially in the spring, is not the easiest thing to accomplish. Good luck and have fun! Signature:) JR >> this thread has us terrified. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I don't know about the specific welding problems that began this thread, but I > suspect you're better off having bought a Class C "mini" motorhome. I'd bet a dollar to your favorite charity that the carrying capacity is a can of tuna. Class C's are notorious for being overweight. > Everything in the cab area is strictly Chevy's doing as well as the rest of > the drive train. They just added a motorhome to a "cutaway chassis" > provided/built by Chevrolet/GM. The welds and other quality in all of THESE > particular areas should be as good as any pickup or van made by Chevy. I don't believe that's true at all. Much of the chassis welding is done at the RV factory not at a GM factory and we've already seen the pictures of welding by Fleetwood. > Slide-out rooms and other superstructure components are built by the coach > manufacturer, Fleetwood in your case. These are the places I would check for > quality issues, if any. I would check everywhere! Get all the defects into the warranty department's computer ASAP. Both through the dealer and directly to Fleetwood. Document everything. >> The dealer who sold us this unit...spoke very highly of Fleetwood. > > That is to be expected. The dealer wouldn't get a commission if he trash-talked what he was selling. Fleetwood dealers get good incentives from the factory, that's why there are so many of them. The inexpensive products turn over quicker and allow them to carry the higher-profit inventory like Diesel pushers. >> We spent nearly a year researching this, as it's the >> largest purchase we've ever made. Did you join the RV Consumer Group? What kind of research did you do? I do hope you looked beyond floor plan, decor and the interest rate. Most folks don't. > I have heard good things about Tioga. I see a lot of them on the road. I haven't. You see a lot of them on the road because they are inexpensive. The rental companies buy a lot of them. They repaint them and resell them when they can't be relied upon as rentals. >> Now we're very worried. > > Don't be, especially after you've thoroughly checked-out the unit and found > nothing seriously wrong. I would be worried about what you take on your trip. Check out the weights and learn your carrying capacity. You might have to travel lighter than you expected. You might have to upgrade your tires to a higher load rating, too. > Now is the time to use the living daylights out of the new motorhome - while > the warranty is in effect. Take a note pad with you and go camping. Keep a > journal of wants and needs for the new rig and get them taken care of. > Warranty work, especially in the spring, is not the easiest thing to > accomplish. Good luck and have fun! I don't mean to be a party-pooper, but you need to be careful and you need to protect yourself. J SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> It does appear that the large RV's over 10,000 lbs are not crash tested at >> all. In fact, reading through the link it appears they are exempt from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > year researching this, as it's the largest purchase we've ever made. > Now we're very worried. Fleetwood is the largest RV manufacturer in the country. That doesn't mean that they are the best. I would be highly suspect of a sales person who did NOT speak highly of the product they sell. They get paid on commission. Personally, I would NEVER rely upon the statement of any sales person. As for the welds on your Tioga, they could have been done peoperly or they could have been, like the OP's, messed up. Fleetwood has long been known for quality control issues. Your RV is not as well built as a GM factory-built pick up and it's up to you to be constantly vigilant to check every thing as often as possible. You can check the archives of all of the RV magazines consumer columns and you will see that the first second that the unit is out of warranty, Fleetwood will disown you. Even if you suspect something, call the dealer, send a certified letter, return receipt requested to Fleetwood's warranty division and do all you can to insure that they have been notified of the problem prior to the expiration of the warranty date. Do not put any warranty repairs off. Do not let the warranty expire without getting things fixed. I hope you checked the weights on that class C. Most of them come off the line overweight for their own chassis. Please be careful. To anyone else looking to purchase a new RV, please do your homework. There are resources and the best of them, though far from perfect, is the RV Consumer organization. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life Welcome to RVing, Lots of folks here will Poo Poo Fleetwood products and any other product that they don't happen to own. It's just human nature. I have a Fleetwood product and have to say that most of my problems have been chasis related. I don't see that you should be terified. BUT, there are things you need to learn about to manage your risks and enhance your enjoyment of your new RV. There's lots of good stuff on this newsgroup and some over at rec.outdoors.rv-travel , although that group is more of a chat room. If you are worried about the frame welds, take your rig to a frame and suspension specialist and have him make right what's wrong. The length to wheelbase ratio is a tad under 50%. That's not too good. Chances are that your gas tank, water tanks, and holding tanks are in back of your rear axle. That's not too good either. You can minimize the unbalance and tail wagging effects by emptying your water tank and holding tanks before traveling. Carry only as much gas as you need. You would be better off if you didn't trailer with this rig. A poorly balanced trailer will fishtail and could cause you to lose control of your vehicle. There is little or no crash safety built into these vehicles. Drive slow, stay awake, be alert, anticipate slow downs and stops, don't tailgate, be mindful of all the things the other stupid drivers and especially bicyclists might do to cause you to crash. Keep your rig in good condition. Pay special attention to tire condition and inflation and maintain your brakes. >> It does appear that the large RV's over 10,000 lbs are not crash tested >> at [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > year researching this, as it's the largest purchase we've ever made. > Now we're very worried. > Welcome to RVing, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > cause you to crash. Keep your rig in good condition. Pay special attention > to tire condition and inflation and maintain your brakes. Great post! Did you hear my applause? <g> SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> Welcome to RVing, >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Great post! Did you hear my applause? <g> Acknowleged and appreciated. Jim > >> Welcome to RVing, > >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Acknowleged and appreciated. > Jim Thanks all for the responses. Jim, can you tell us which Fleetwood model you have, how long you've had it, and what chassis problems you've run into? Also, with a budget of $50-60K and a requirement of a Class C of 21-23', what other options should we have looked at? After a year of research we had it narrowed down to two models, the Tioga 23B and Four Winds Chateau Sport 23A, and feedback on RV.NET and other end user discussion forums was similarly positive on both vehicles. > Thanks all for the responses. Jim, can you tell us which Fleetwood > model you have, how long you've had it, and what chassis problems [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and other end user discussion forums was similarly positive on both > vehicles. Sorry, I meant Tioga 22B not 23B. Fleetwood Storm 30H- Punchlist full of stuff I can't remember fixed by the dealer before I took delivery. leak in shower skylight, minor squeeks, rattles, and adjustments, oilcanning in storage compartments. 2001 Workhorse P32 chasis- Bad alternator, Bad valve in parking brake, Parking brake cable froze causeing drum and shoe damage, leaking water pump- twice, rotted brake lines, Melted plug wires, Rotted exhaust, excessive frame rusting, braided ground frame to ground led me to misdiagnose bad starter. My bad. Poor support from workhorse. Lack of documentation. Lack of available repair parts (must be shipped from Workhorse central warehouse) Most of these problems occured between 2001 and 2003. Maybe they have cleaned up their act since then. Misc. Dometic cooling unit, propane detector >> >> Welcome to RVing, >> >> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > and other end user discussion forums was similarly positive on both > vehicles. >Lots of folks here will Poo Poo Fleetwood products and any other product >that they don't happen to own. It's just human nature. That was a rather stoopid observation with the obvious intent to mislead a newbie on this group (albeit, by choice: an insignificant no-name newbie). The suggestion that participants on the group poo-poo Fleetwood products because they don't own one, is a rather daft and bogus suggestion. The primary reasons why owners and non-owners alike poo-poo Fleetwood could be summarized as: 1. Fleetwood, at best, manufactures really crappy products; and at worst: create total unending nightmares of the kind that make Steven Spielburg a mere amateur in comparison; 2. Fleetwood has earned a valid reputation within the RVing community, for preferring to spend $500,000 in resisting a legitimate warranty claim all the way to the Supreme Court, rather than simply paying $500 to look after a customer with a legitimate claim! :-( Indeed, you don't have to buy a Skoda to know that it's a bad idea. Same goes for buying a Fleetwood; not to mention compounding the problem by buying it on a Workhorse chassis!! Contrary to what newbie "Anonymous Jim" says, RVers on groups such as this, have a whole lot more to say about disenchantment with their own rigs and manufacturer, than any crap Fleetwood might have to offer. Albeit, Fleetwood products are manufactured at a number of different facilities across the continent. So far, Class C Tioga rigs have failed to earn the negative reputation associated with the rest of the junk Fleetwood makes. I see the old knot head, Birch bark, has been imbibing in wood alcohol again. Did I rub your grain the wrong way. Tell us about your first hand experience with any RV you have owned. Have you had any personal experience with a Fleetwood product? I'll give you one more chance to make some intelligent observations before I send you to the bozo bin with the other trolls and misfits. Jim >>Lots of folks here will Poo Poo Fleetwood products and any other product >>that they don't happen to own. It's just human nature. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > failed to earn the negative reputation associated with the rest of the > junk Fleetwood makes. > Have you had any personal experience with a Fleetwood product? No . . . . I haven't had any experience with a Fleetwood product; nor have I had any experience with AIDS either. Are you really that daft, that you have to "experience" bad stuff before you are convinced it is BAD!?? I am more than content to benefit from the BAD experiences of others. > I'll give you one more chance to make some >intelligent observations before I send you to the bozo bin with the other >trolls and misfits. Indeed! You come across as one of the most transparent idiots to have ever invaded these NGs. For instance . . . you bought a Fleetwood!! Giggle . . who awesomely smart can you possibly be?? Giggle! As for your bozo-bin threat: you sound like you are *almost* as intelligent as Will-the-Slit-Hunter! > > Have you had any personal experience with a Fleetwood product? > > No . . . . I haven't had any experience with a Fleetwood product Thanks for the clarification. So you just enjoy worrying people. We get it now. >Thanks for the clarification. So you just enjoy worrying people. >We get it now. More to the point, was the fact that you are merely an uninformed ignorant a.shole. Now for your part of the bargain: You promised to filter me!! Appart from the fact that you are a total ignoramous; Are you also a liar? No big deal. As an annonymous sock puppet; once you've embarrassed yourself under one sock puppet name, as you've done over the years, you just come up with another socket puppet name. No one around these here parts, really cares who you are, or what you have to say. duh! > I see the old knot head, Birch bark, has been imbibing in wood alcohol > again. Did I rub your grain the wrong way. Tell us about your first hand > experience with any RV you have owned. Have you had any personal experience > with a Fleetwood product? I'll give you one more chance to make some > intelligent observations before I send you to the bozo bin with the other > trolls and misfits. You would be well served to do a little research before you start singing the praises of Fleetwood. Spend a few bucks and join www.rv.org and read some of the horror stories. No company will screw every customer. If they did, the company won't continue to exist. Some companies screw way more customers than other companies do. Even horrible companies end up with some happy customers. RESEARCH is your friend. Or, you can learn the hard way. You could also buy lottery tickets trying to get rich. Some people win. Lon > You would be well served to do a little research before you start singing > the praises of Fleetwood. Spend a few bucks and join www.rv.org and read [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lon I'm not singing praises for any RV brand. I just stated the facts of my personal experience with my RV over a 6 year period. All I ever needed from Fleetwood was wiring diagrams and they sent them cheerfully and promptly. If you think I didn't research my purchase or do a thorough pre-purchase inspection, you don't know me or my capabilities at all. Thanks for sharing your opinions. Jim > I see the old knot head, Birch bark, has been imbibing in wood alcohol > again. Did I rub your grain the wrong way. Tell us about your first hand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > trolls and misfits. > Jim One does not have to experience badness to recognize it, given the word of legions of owners. Having said that, I have owned two Fleetwood products. The first was a Prowler Travel Trailer I bought new in 1976. It had over 20,000 miles of Alaska gravel roads on it when we sold it in 1990. I'll admit it was a good product. The second was a 1992 Tioga Class C Motor Home. Where to start: The floor of the closet was not attached to any framing members. The water pump was not screwed down; only held in place by its hoses. The factory 'forgot' to installed the wiring for the roof air conditioner. The filon on the right side and the rear of the unit started delaminating in less than a year. It was a 3 year struggle to get them to fix it properly. The shower leaked from the day we bought it until we sold it. The kitchen sink was held down only with mastic. I guess sink clips would have cost two bucks. Of course, it popped loose. One experience was good. One was bad. Would I buy another Fleetwood product? Not on your life. SignatureDave Thompson >> I see the old knot head, Birch bark, has been imbibing in wood alcohol >> again. Did I rub your grain the wrong way. Tell us about your first hand [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > One experience was good. One was bad. Would I buy another Fleetwood > product? Not on your life. Sorry man. If I'd had the problems you did, I'd be down on Fleetwood too. What do you own now, and what, if any, issues have you had with it? > Having said that, I have owned two Fleetwood products. The first was a > Prowler Travel Trailer I bought new in 1976. It had over 20,000 miles > of Alaska gravel roads on it when we sold it in 1990. I'll admit it was > a good product. That '76 Prowler was a well built rig. I know other people who had older Prowlers that lasted into the 1990's. When they looked to replace them, however, they found that the newer Prowler models were nothing like their older models. The same can be said for owners of Holiday Rambler trailers before all the sales of the company, though Monaco is really making an effort to clean up its quality control issues. The current issue of RV Business' list of recalls is heavily Monaco. A few issues ago it was reported how Monaco was spending a great deal of time and cash to bring up the levels of their quality control. I give Monaco credit for acknowledging their problems and tackling the issues. I wouldn't buy a new one for a couple of years while they clean up their act, however. JMHO SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > Albeit, Fleetwood products are manufactured at a number of different > facilities across the continent. So far, Class C Tioga rigs have > failed to earn the negative reputation associated with the rest of the > junk Fleetwood makes. Good to hear. We took our 22B to a frame shop yesterday and the mechanics not only didn't find any welding problems, they said it was one of the better motorhome chassis they'd seen. They seemed especially impressed with the rust protection coating on the undercarriage. Anyway, I'm new to the group and really don't want to start any pointless arguments. As I said before we researched this for over a year before we bought, focusing more on owner reviews, opinions of friends who have or had one etc than dealer spin. Time will tell if this research paid off. Thanks to all! >Good to hear. We took our 22B to a frame shop yesterday and >the mechanics not only didn't find any welding problems, they said >it was one of the better motorhome chassis they'd seen. They >seemed especially impressed with the rust protection coating on >the undercarriage. Fleetwood welding-problems are entirely restricted to their el-cheapo approach to saving a few bucks on their Class A chassis purchases, in defianance of Ford chassis manufacturer recommendations; and at customer expense!! Ford definitely opposes the efforts of Mickey Mouse el-cheapo low-end manufacturers like Fleetwood to extend the chassis parameters originally **engineered** to finely appropriate tolerances by Ford, to the abysmal death-defying kludges morphed by Fleetwood. Evidenced by Fleetwood's effort to extend the Ford chassis by employing apparently untrained school-kid-level employees who don't even know how to weld, to extend the Fleetwood chassis **FAR** beyond Ford's engineering recommendations. > Ford definitely opposes the efforts of Mickey Mouse el-cheapo low-end > manufacturers like Fleetwood to extend the chassis parameters [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to extend the Fleetwood chassis **FAR** beyond Ford's engineering > recommendations. In all of my research I've never seen any evidence of that, beyond Fleetwood repeatedly placing leveling jacks on the radiator support against the recommendations of both Workhorse and Ford. Lon >>stan.birch@hotmail.com wrote: >> Ford definitely opposes the efforts of Mickey Mouse el-cheapo low-end [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Fleetwood repeatedly placing leveling jacks on the radiator support >against the recommendations of both Workhorse and Ford. Ford has not approved any kind of after-market chassis extension since the introduction of the new chassis in '99. They strongly recommend against it. > Ford has not approved any kind of after-market chassis extension since > the introduction of the new chassis in '99. They strongly recommend > against it. That's false on both counts. The "new" chassis was introduced in 1998, and every manufacturer I'm aware of has been extending them, including Winnebago. IIRC, (it has been a long time since we shopped for that 1999 Itasca) 252" Wheelbase is (or was) the longest stretch approved by Ford. Blaming Fleetwood for something that all of the manufacturers do is just not right. Few are more down on Fleetwood than I am, but fair is fair, and false accusations are NOT. National held out the longest, and was still using a tag axle in 1999, but even National has taken to stretching them. Lon >> Ford has not approved any kind of after-market chassis extension since >> the introduction of the new chassis in '99. They strongly recommend [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Winnebago. IIRC, (it has been a long time since we shopped for that 1999 >Itasca) 252" Wheelbase is (or was) the longest stretch approved by Ford. Actually, if you want to get picky, the '99 chassis was introduced in Nov 1997 in Las Vegas at the SEMA Show; and the 1999-model Super Duty F-Series debuted in Jan '98. We ordered ours in Sep. '98. I distinctly remember, that when first introduced, Ford specifically stated that they did not approve of third-party chassis-extensions. Not a big deal for us, with our 32' rig. >Blaming Fleetwood for something that all of the manufacturers do is just >not right. Few are more down on Fleetwood than I am, but fair is fair, >and false accusations are NOT. After seeing the photos of the abysmal 'bird-sh.t' "welding" job done by Fleetwood, I can understand why Ford didn't want after-market modifications being done by unskilled labourers of the kind employed by Fleetwood! >National held out the longest, and was still using a tag axle in 1999, >but even National has taken to stretching them. My dealer showed me the last remaining Winnie tag axle to leave the Winnebago lot, back in Feb 98. I'm against government control, but I think they should have safety standards that the RV industry must be held acountable for. MIke >>>>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>>>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >Even a recent refrigerator maker's recall for a problem that could set a >rig on fire doesn't make it to NHTSA. I'll make a call anyways to see where I might be able to go. Mike >>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >They don't monitor RVs. >>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > They don't monitor RVs. That is news to me. If you go to: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm You can search defects/recalls on Fleetwood RV's. If Mike can supply the model and year of his Fleetwood I'll happily look up the NHTSA list of defects and recalls for him (it takes special powers to use a search engine). Mike's defect may be listed there and if it is he may have much more leverage in resolving his problem. In fact he may have strong legal grounds for a suit, the state may even have grounds for criminal prosecution. Where did you come up with "they don't monitor RV's"? Do you have a link for that information? Vaughn >>>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Vaughn They issue recalls for components. One has to contact them directly for them to even investigate. If Ford had a chassis rail problem, they would monitor it. If the stretched out chassis that an RV manufacturer built had a problem, they wouldn't unless there were sufficient consumer complaints. Several years ago a brand of fifth wheel had defective frames on their 1996, 97 and some early 1998 units. We had a 96 with the problem. An axle hanger for the center axle split right off of the frame rail. It was within millimeters of coming off on the other side. If it had, we'd have been dead. The manufacturer wanted it kept secret. They paid for the repairs to ours. I sat on the info for months and couldn't live with my conscience so I sent it to the owner's club newsletter. Later several people tried to get the NHTSA involved and couldn't. The reason: it was an RV. The recalls I've seen have been for things like fuel lines or tires, components of a stock chassis like Ford or Chevy. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >>> They don't monitor RVs. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > The recalls I've seen have been for things like fuel lines or tires, > components of a stock chassis like Ford or Chevy. The issue was whether the NHTSA monitors RV's for defects. It's what you said on the top of this message. I showed the NHTSA website with RV information that anyone can look up. Apparently, the NHTSA monitors RV's. Some of the defects they cited on RV's included improper labelling. There are a lot less RV's sold than regular cars but they are being monitored by the NHTSA. In fact if you look at their list you'll see some vehicles that are very few in number. Those facts would lead me to believe they cover vehicles regardless of the numbers, the type and the magnitude of the problem. What was the make, model and year of your fifth wheeler with the problem? Let's see if it is on the list. Here's a Fleetwood listing on a recall that is neither a fuel line, tire or component of a stock chassis, it is an intermediate steering shaft: Make / Models : Model/Build Years: FLEETWOOD / BOUNDER 2005-2006 FLEETWOOD / FLAIR 2005-2006 FLEETWOOD / PACE ARROW 2005-2006 FLEETWOOD / SOUTHWIND 2005-2006 FLEETWOOD / STORM 2005-2006 Recall Number: 06V218000 Summary: ON CERTAIN CLASS A MOTOR HOMES BUILT ON WORKHORSE CHASSIS MAY HAVE BEEN EQUIPPED WITH INCORRECT STEERING INTERMEDIATE SHAFTS. THE SPLINE CAN STRIP WHILE THE STEERING WHEEL IS BEING TURNED. Consequence: THIS STEERING CONDITION COULD RESULT IN A LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. Remedy: WORKHORSE IS CONDUCTING THIS RECALL (PLEASE SEE 06V148000) AND WILL INSPECT AND, IF NECESSARY, REPLACE THE STEERING INTERMEDIATE SHAFTS. OWNERS MAY CONTACT WORKHORSE AT 1-877-294-6773 OR FLEETWOOD AT 1-800-322-8216. Notes: CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION’S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV One would think a design/manufacturing defect that results in loss of steering doesn't require many consumer complaints, especially on so recent a model. Right now it is a fight with Fleetwood to have the problem taken care of. If they won't fix it and before I go on another trip I will take it to a Frame shop to have it fixed, then send the bill to Fleetwood. Since they will probably laugh at me I will just have to take them to court. Mike >>>>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>>>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >The recalls I've seen have been for things like fuel lines or tires, >components of a stock chassis like Ford or Chevy. Mike I feel sorry for you.I have owned 2 class C MHs by Fleetwood over the years with nothing but problems due to their poor construction 1st was a Jamboree the 2nd a Rallye I would sell it soon they show their age very fast with leaks and seams opning up.JMHOP Sorry I missed your message, I was only watching the reply's below to my message. Well, I will just have to stay with it for the next few years and hope it holds together until I can afford to sell it. I'm trying to talk Fleetwood into sending me a letter that would say that they will stand behind the weld job and if it ever breaks at the weld point on the side extensions they will take full legal responsibility. Mike >Mike I feel sorry for you.I have owned 2 class C MHs by Fleetwood over >the years with nothing but problems due to their poor construction 1st >was a Jamboree the 2nd a Rallye I would sell it soon they show their age >very fast with leaks and seams opning up.JMHOP Vaughn: The Motorhome is a 2005 Jamboree 26'. I checked the URL you posted plus did a recall search and didn't come up with anything. Fleetwood is waiting from the RV dealer for more pictures. I need to take it in again. I feel like I am getting the run around. Mike >>>> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >>>> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Vaughn > Vaughn: The Motorhome is a 2005 Jamboree 26'. I checked the URL you > posted plus did a recall search and didn't come up with anything. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >>Vaughn Be persistant, polite and factual. Work to resolve the problem, try to make it win-win and with some luck you will prevail. I'll do some checking on the model and get back to you. Best of luck. Vaughn Fleetwood Enterprises Inc. has announced NHTSA recall 04V352000, which affects some 2002, 2003, and 2004 Bounder, Fiesta, Flair, Jamboree, Jamboree GT, Pace Arrow, Southwind, Storm, Terra, Tioga, and Tioga SL motorhomes made between November 1, 2002, and March 23, 2004. The potential number of coaches involved is 8,219. On certain motorhomes equipped with Draw-Tite-brand hitch receivers, one or more welds may be missing between the hitch receiver box and the bottom support plate. During use, forces may be applied that could cause the existing welds to break, allowing the hitch receiver box and towed load to separate from the motorhome, increasing the risk of a crash. A dealer or authorized service center will inspect and, if necessary, replace the hitch receiver. The repair is expected to take approximately three hours to complete. However, because of service scheduling times, the service center may need the vehicle for a longer time period. Fleetwood urges owners of motorhomes affected by this recall not to tow or otherwise use the hitch receiver before it is inspected and/or repaired. For more information about this recall, contact Fleetwood at (800) 322-8216. Owner notification was expected to begin in August 2004. From the Fleetwood SEC filings: http://sec.edgar-online.com/2004/07/08/0001047469-04-022733/section2.asp "Recently, the Transportation Recall Enhancement Accountability Documentation Act was approved by Congress and administered by the NHTSA. Under this rule, motor vehicle manufacturers (automotive, truck and RV) and motor vehicle equipment manufacturers are now required to report information and submit documents relating to customer complaints, warranty claims, field reports, injuries, property damage and deaths. This information may assist NHTSA to promptly identify defects related to motor vehicle safety. Fleetwood has implemented systems and processes to meet the new reporting requirements. Amendments to any of these regulations and the implementation of new regulations could significantly increase the costs of manufacturing, purchasing, operating or selling our products and could have a material adverse effect on our results of operations." You may want to contact Fleetwood's corporate compliance (or their corporate counsel) department and the NHTSA for potential failure to comply with the TREAD Act (and fraud). Fleetwood lays it out here: http://www.fleetwood.com/PDF/CodeofConductPolicy.pdf I believe that may get your problem fixed quickly as the problem is now reported on the corporate level rather than to some customer representative. Hope this helps, Vaughn I hope to takethe Coach this week to a frame place that does repair and straighting work. I think that I need some more proof before going the legal path. But I will keep the NHTSB in mind, thanks. Mike >> Plan on purchasing a R.V. from Fleetwood? See >> http://www.geocities.com/xmike@sbcglobal.net The Web Page explains the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Safety Board). Selling vehicles with defective frames is serious and may >promulgate a forced national recall. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.