Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / April 2007
Harleys and Motorhomes
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Hustlin' Hank - 10 Apr 2007 18:32 GMT I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to have their bike at the site. They have to park them up front at the office and walk back to their site.
Is this common? Is it because of the noise, oil leaking or what?
Hank <~~~still confused in this world
Shad O'Shay - 10 Apr 2007 19:00 GMT >I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I > don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to > have their bike at the site. They have to park them up front at the > office and walk back to their site. > > Is this common? Is it because of the noise, oil leaking or what? It's the noise. Way too many Harley Davidson owners think it's cool to remove the stock, legal and quiet pipes and install obnoxiously loud aftermarket, bone-jarringly noisy straight pipes. There's no excuse for it. Totally irresponsible behavior on the biker's behalf. And stupid because it results in discrimination against them, and rightly so. It's about time they were made to pay the piper, so to speak.
Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders realize if they hit a cyclist they are probably going down, too but they almost always give a cyclist a wide berth when they overtake you. Other than those obnoxious loud pipes, they just don't seem to embody the bully attitude like almost every RVer.
Shad O'Shay.
Hustlin' Hank - 11 Apr 2007 12:15 GMT > Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are > much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Shad O'Shay. Do I detect a small dislike for RV'ers? When you say most RV'ers have a "bully attitude", do you mean they bully themselves on the road because of the big rigs, or what?
Hank <~~~getting more confused than ever :-)
Shad O'Shay - 11 Apr 2007 14:21 GMT >> Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers >> are [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Hank <~~~getting more confused than ever :-) It's not that. It's the fact that most large RV's, at least, seem to think because they are large that they have more of a right to the roadway than other smaller traffic. Bicycles are a particular target for their bully tactics of intimidation and passing without leaving the statutory 3-5 feet of clearance or moving completely into the other lane should the roadway be less wide than the "standard lane" width of 14 feet.
If you read some recent threads that have appeared here in the past couple of weeks you will seem how lacking in knowledge of the traffic laws most of these RVers really are. Even after my having posted traffic law and links to traffic law that clearly delineates the rights of bicyclists on the roadways, these ignorant RV operators continue to insist it is their right to run a cyclist off the road or even to run over and "pancake" any cyclist that as much as causes them to slow down.
I'm telling you, there is really very good reason for cyclists to hate RVers. You, as a motorcyclist have probably noticed how ignorant RV drivers are and how they seem to think they have a right to the roadway above and beyond anybody else's. It is plain to see that is their attitude because evidence of it can be seen when reading their posts. It's an uppity, arrogant, better-than-thou attitude that evidences itself in their bully tactics.
Shad O'Shay
mudmonkey - 12 Apr 2007 04:13 GMT > >> Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers > >> are [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > - Show quoted text - and just the more reason for the bigger rv's needing to have special licences, they are much bigger, and harder to handle in a emergency and typical driving skills dont apply most the time. that and the older folks taht have a reduced reaction time, ( just waiting for a war ) driving them.
mudmonkey - 12 Apr 2007 04:15 GMT > > "Hustlin' Hank" <ninebal...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > - Show quoted text - But the same problem is evident in the big bad 4x4's and there im bigger and baddet attidues. not to mention the ricer drivin morons that think the roads are raceways.
Hustlin' Hank - 12 Apr 2007 11:17 GMT > I'm telling you, there is really very good reason for cyclists to hate > RVers. You, as a motorcyclist have probably noticed how ignorant RV [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Shad O'Shay- As a motorcylist, RV, truck driver, I haven't noticed any better-than- thou attitude from many. However, I can understand the frustration from a bicyclist.
Whatever you ride/drive. The key is to have respect for others on the roadway. Bigger vehicles such as trucks/Rv's/trailers and such are a little trickier to drive than a motorcycle, car, or bicycle. By giving them a little more room, what/who does that hurt? The truck drivers are doing a job, not just out for a joy ride. Wouldn't it be nice if someone tried to make your job a little easier?
It appears to me that you are a disgruntled cyclist. I could be wrong. If so, I apologize. But, I have noticed cyclists riding their bikes on roads with 55 mph speed limits. How do you think that makes us feel when we come upon you? Altho they MAY have every right to be there, dont' you think that is being a little irresponsible and dangerous for all concerned (esp. the cyclist)?
Hank <~~~never convicted of vehicular homicide
Shad O'Shay - 12 Apr 2007 21:07 GMT > It appears to me that you are a disgruntled cyclist. I could be wrong. > If so, I apologize. But, I have noticed cyclists riding their bikes on > roads with 55 mph speed limits. How do you think that makes us feel > when we come upon you? Altho they MAY have every right to be there, > dont' you think that is being a little irresponsible and dangerous for > all concerned (esp. the cyclist)? No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and ride thousands of miles upon the roadways without being constantly harassed and endangered by ignorant, arrogant, a.shole motorists. RVers (especially the motorhome types) are among the worst bullies. Large red pick-up trucks are a close second. Any colored Cadillacs are almost as bad. Professional truckers are very considerate. They seem to buck the bigger is bullier trend of the non-professionals. Motorcyclists are very responsible and courteous. Perhaps because they get bullied almost as much as cyclists.
As for my legal right to be there, don't you ever forget it. Because you don't like it and because you think it's not safe is NOT A LEGITIMATE reason for you to get mad or ignore the traffic laws which say a cyclist is a vehicle with all the rights and privileges of any other vehicle on the road. So what if you have to slow down from time to time. TOUGH sh.t! That's life in the traffic lane. There never was and there never will be a right to proceed at or above the speed limit at all times yet that's the attitude you and the bullies convey with your "irresponsible and dangerous" finger pointing at cyclists who are operating legally and responsibly.
Since when does an uninformed opinion carry more weight than the law? Since when have people come to believe that they can use "safety" to contravene laws when the laws are written to be followed and if followed they ensure safety for all involved? Try to get grounded and real about this. Try to let go of your biases.
Shad O'Shay
Hustlin' Hank - 12 Apr 2007 23:04 GMT > No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and ride > thousands of miles upon the roadways without being constantly harassed [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Shad O'Shay My "biases" are based on my experience the same as yours. I agree that you may have all the legal rights as a motor vehicle, no question. But! Too many times I have seen bicyclists ride between me and the curb to get to the front of the line at the light. THAT is illegal and dangerous. <~~~possible reason for bias.
As an RV'er, motorcyclist, auto, and truck driver, I don't think ALL cyclists do this. I have also seen motorcycles split the lanes in order to pass other vehicles at over 80 MPH. That doesn't mean ALL motorcyclists do it.
If you let this unfounded hate for RV'ers build up in you, you may suffer some serious health risks that will over ride your effort to stay in shape by riding a bike.
To help me overcome my biases, explain to me why there are miles and miles of bike trails being made in every city, but cyclists continue to ride only on the roads?
Hank <~~~~not too old to learn
Shad O'Shay - 12 Apr 2007 23:42 GMT On Apr 12, 3:07�pm, "Shad O'Shay" <shados...@elsewhere.invalid> wrote:
> No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and > ride [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Shad O'Shay My "biases" are based on my experience the same as yours. I agree that you may have all the legal rights as a motor vehicle, no question. But! Too many times I have seen bicyclists ride between me and the curb to get to the front of the line at the light. THAT is illegal and dangerous. <~~~possible reason for bias.
As an RV'er, motorcyclist, auto, and truck driver, I don't think ALL cyclists do this. I have also seen motorcycles split the lanes in order to pass other vehicles at over 80 MPH. That doesn't mean ALL motorcyclists do it.
If you let this unfounded hate for RV'ers build up in you, you may suffer some serious health risks that will over ride your effort to stay in shape by riding a bike.
To help me overcome my biases, explain to me why there are miles and miles of bike trails being made in every city, but cyclists continue to ride only on the roads?
Hank <~~~~not too old to learn
There are trail bikes and there are road bikes. I prefer road bikes. The so-called bike trails aren't really bike trails at all. They are multi-use trails. Horses use them, people jog on them, people walk their dogs on them. People roller skate and roller blade on them. I've even seen people running backwards on trails (what's that all about???) Lately people are walking around with two walking sticks. In other words it's next to impossible for a professional cyclist to train as hard as he needs to train using trails. His races are run on roads and roads are where he needs to train. That's it in a nutshell. When on the road as a cyclist I am engaging in my profession. Other than professional truckers and those commuting too and from work who can say they are doing anything by recreational activities on the road? Since when has it come about that a person engaged in recreation come to believe his recreation takes precedence over my job?
You mentioned bicycles passing vehicles on the right. You seem to think it's illegal. It's not in some cases. Here is one of them:
● Paved shoulders – Where a curb is not present, the right-hand edge of a roadway is the line between the roadway and the shoulder. Since the definition of "roadway" excludes the shoulder [§316.003], cyclists are not required to ride on paved shoulders, although they may prefer to do so. A cyclist may ride only along a right-side paved shoulder, i.e., must ride in the direction of traffic, since this is the only practical way to comply with the requirement to obey all applicable traffic signals and signs [§316.074].
So if the cyclist prefers to ride to the right side of the white line on a paved shoulder it is totally legal for him to do so. And, it is totally legal for him to pass a line of stopped cars on the roadway.
And here's another one:
WHEN OVERTAKING ON THE RIGHT IS PERMITTED [§316.084] Overtaking on the right is permitted upon a street or highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by parked vehicles, of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving traffic in each direction. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle on the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. A cyclist traveling in a bicycle lane, or in a lane wide enough for motor vehicles and bicycles to share (see "Roadway position" above) may pass motor vehicles on the right, but must take care to avoid turning vehicles. Passing is allowed in these cases since there is sufficient width for two lines of moving traffic (one of which is bicycle traffic). 20
See how you had no real clue as to bicycle law? And you seem to be one of the open-minded people. But you just assumed certain things against bicycle rights that are just plain wrong. A simple reading of bicyle law would dispell these widely held misconceptions. Sadly, I don't know of a single drivers license written test that even mentions bicycle law and bicyle rights and motorists obligation to treat cyclists as they would any other vehicle.
BTW the above are taken from:
FLORIDA BICYCLE LAW ENFORCEMENT GUIDE A review of Florida’s bicycle traffic laws to help with warnings, citations and crash reports September 2006 All citations are to the 2006 Florida Statutes
Feel free to Google the pdf and read it for yourself. Florida law is typical of most state laws because of uniform traffic control.
Shad O'Shay
Hustlin' Hank - 13 Apr 2007 13:57 GMT > On Apr 12, 3:07?pm, "Shad O'Shay" <shados...@elsewhere.invalid> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hustlin' Hank - 13 Apr 2007 14:28 GMT > There are trail bikes and there are road bikes. I prefer road bikes. The > so-called bike trails aren't really bike trails at all. They are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > about that a person engaged in recreation come to believe his recreation > takes precedence over my job? I think most of the people that drive on the roads that see someone peddling a bicycle thinks it is the cyclists recreation, not his profession. So, are they wrong for thinking that? I don't think so, and I think you should cut them some salck in that regard.
As in all jobs or professions, nothing is perfect. Everybody who has ever held a job found something to complain about, that's why they call it a job. Apparently your profession has its drawbacks too. I suggest you learn to deal with the drawbacks the same as others have to deal with theirs or you won't get to the top (pun intended). :-)
> You mentioned bicycles passing vehicles on the right. You seem to think > it's illegal. It's not in some cases. The case I described is illegal in Ohio and most major cities. Country roads are different as you say. So, the cyclists that pass a stopped vehicle on the right between the CURB and the vehicle to get in front at a stoplight is wrong and dangerous for the cyclist. Is this how you train? I think not. I assume it is only done by the cyclists that do it for recreation purposes only. They give the other cyclists a bad name for sure. But again, there are always bad apples that ruin it for the rest.
> See how you had no real clue as to bicycle law? And you seem to be one > of the open-minded people. But you just assumed certain things against [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bicyle rights and motorists obligation to treat cyclists as they would > any other vehicle.
> Shad O'Shay- I agree I know very little about bicycle laws. But I do know a dangerous situation when I see one.
On a side note: Just because a truck driver, taxi driver, bus driver or professional cyclist is on the roadway, that doesn't give them any special rights that go outside the laws.
Face it, there are a.ses out there on the roads that we all have to deal with, we might as well be as courteous as we can and don't let it get us into a rage.
Hank <~~~courteous most of the time, gives the finger the rest of the time :-)
Eddie - 12 Apr 2007 19:44 GMT >It's the noise. Way too many Harley Davidson owners think it's cool to >remove the stock, legal and quiet pipes and install obnoxiously loud >aftermarket, bone-jarringly noisy straight pipes. There's no excuse for >it. Totally irresponsible behavior on the biker's behalf. And stupid >because it results in discrimination against them, and rightly so. It's >about time they were made to pay the piper, so to speak.
>Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are >much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Shad O'Shay. I drive a transit bus. My bus weights in at about 40,000 lbs. The other day I was waiting for the red to turn green (I was first) in the right lane. There were two other lanes to my left. As the light turned green for me I looked left, looked right and another quick glance to left and floored it. (don't worry they don't accelerate like an M3) As I started to proceed across the road I hear a really loud (I knew it was a MC) noise. Sure enough I looked to my left and here comes a hog with a female passenger shooting down the road, not slowing and running complete red. If I had not heard that loud muffler I would have continued crossing and the biker would have t-boned me. He was doing about 50 mph. I wonder what kind of damage he would have suffered t-boning a 40,000 lb bus? Eddie
PaulT - 11 Apr 2007 12:33 GMT >I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I > don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hank <~~~still confused in this world You must be going to Ocean Lakes. I believe it is a noise issue. You can have your bike at your site, but must walk it or tow it to the entrance. You are not allowed to start the motor. I know Lakewood CG next door and the KOA allow bikes to be driven to and from your site. Paul
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