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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / April 2007

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Harleys and Motorhomes

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Hustlin' Hank - 10 Apr 2007 18:32 GMT
I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I
don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to
have their bike at the site. They have to park them up front at the
office and walk back to their site.

Is this common? Is it because of the noise, oil leaking or what?

Hank <~~~still confused in this world
Shad O'Shay - 10 Apr 2007 19:00 GMT
>I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I
> don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to
> have their bike at the site. They have to park them up front at the
> office and walk back to their site.
>
> Is this common? Is it because of the noise, oil leaking or what?

It's the noise. Way too many Harley Davidson owners think it's cool to
remove the stock, legal and quiet pipes and install obnoxiously loud
aftermarket, bone-jarringly noisy straight pipes. There's no excuse for
it. Totally irresponsible behavior on the biker's behalf. And stupid
because it results in discrimination against them, and rightly so. It's
about time they were made to pay the piper, so to speak.

Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are
much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders
realize if they hit a cyclist they are probably going down, too but they
almost always give a cyclist a wide berth when they overtake you. Other
than those obnoxious loud pipes, they just don't seem to embody the
bully attitude like almost every RVer.

Shad O'Shay.
Hustlin' Hank - 11 Apr 2007 12:15 GMT
> Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are
> much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Shad O'Shay.

Do I detect a small dislike for RV'ers? When you say most RV'ers have
a "bully attitude", do you mean they bully themselves on the road
because of the big rigs, or what?

Hank <~~~getting more confused than ever :-)
Shad O'Shay - 11 Apr 2007 14:21 GMT
>> Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers
>> are
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Hank <~~~getting more confused than ever :-)

It's not that. It's the fact that most large RV's, at least, seem to
think because they are large that they have more of a right to the
roadway than other smaller traffic. Bicycles are a particular target for
their bully tactics of intimidation and passing without leaving the
statutory 3-5 feet of clearance or moving completely into the other lane
should the roadway be less wide than the "standard lane" width of 14
feet.

If you read some recent threads that have appeared here in the past
couple of weeks you will seem how lacking in knowledge of the traffic
laws most of these RVers really are. Even after my having posted traffic
law and links to traffic law that clearly delineates the rights of
bicyclists on the roadways, these ignorant RV operators continue to
insist it is their right to run a cyclist off the road or even to run
over and "pancake" any cyclist that as much as causes them to slow down.

I'm telling you, there is really very good reason for cyclists to hate
RVers. You, as a motorcyclist have probably noticed how ignorant RV
drivers are and how they seem to think they have a right to the roadway
above and beyond anybody else's. It is plain to see that is their
attitude because evidence of it can be seen when reading their posts.
It's an uppity, arrogant, better-than-thou attitude that evidences
itself in their bully tactics.

Shad O'Shay
mudmonkey - 12 Apr 2007 04:13 GMT
> >> Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers
> >> are
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

and just the more reason for the bigger rv's needing to have special
licences, they are much bigger, and harder to handle in a emergency
and typical driving skills dont apply most the time.  that and the
older folks taht have a reduced reaction time, ( just waiting for a
war ) driving them.
mudmonkey - 12 Apr 2007 04:15 GMT
> > "Hustlin' Hank" <ninebal...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

But the same problem is evident in the big bad 4x4's and there im
bigger and baddet attidues.  not to mention the ricer drivin morons
that think the roads are raceways.
Hustlin' Hank - 12 Apr 2007 11:17 GMT
> I'm telling you, there is really very good reason for cyclists to hate
> RVers. You, as a motorcyclist have probably noticed how ignorant RV
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Shad O'Shay-

As a motorcylist, RV, truck driver, I haven't noticed any better-than-
thou attitude from many. However, I can understand the frustration
from a bicyclist.

Whatever you ride/drive. The key is to have respect for others on the
roadway. Bigger vehicles such as trucks/Rv's/trailers and such are a
little trickier to drive than a motorcycle, car, or bicycle. By giving
them a little more room, what/who does that hurt? The truck drivers
are doing a job, not just out for a joy ride. Wouldn't it be nice if
someone tried to make your job a little easier?

It appears to me that you are a disgruntled cyclist. I could be wrong.
If so, I apologize. But, I have noticed cyclists riding their bikes on
roads with 55 mph speed limits. How do you think that makes us feel
when we come upon you? Altho they MAY have every right to be there,
dont' you think that is being a little irresponsible and dangerous for
all concerned (esp. the cyclist)?

Hank <~~~never convicted of vehicular homicide
Shad O'Shay - 12 Apr 2007 21:07 GMT
> It appears to me that you are a disgruntled cyclist. I could be wrong.
> If so, I apologize. But, I have noticed cyclists riding their bikes on
> roads with 55 mph speed limits. How do you think that makes us feel
> when we come upon you? Altho they MAY have every right to be there,
> dont' you think that is being a little irresponsible and dangerous for
> all concerned (esp. the cyclist)?

No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and ride
thousands of miles upon the roadways without being constantly harassed
and endangered by ignorant, arrogant, a.shole motorists.  RVers
(especially the motorhome types) are among the worst bullies. Large red
pick-up trucks are a close second. Any colored Cadillacs are almost as
bad. Professional truckers are very considerate. They seem to buck the
bigger is bullier trend of the non-professionals. Motorcyclists are very
responsible and courteous. Perhaps because they get bullied almost as
much as cyclists.

As for my legal right to be there, don't you ever forget it. Because you
don't like it and because you think it's not safe is NOT A LEGITIMATE
reason for you to get mad or ignore the traffic laws which say a cyclist
is a vehicle with all the rights and privileges of any other vehicle on
the road. So what if you have to slow down from time to time. TOUGH
sh.t! That's life in the traffic lane. There never was and there never
will be a right to proceed at or above the speed limit at all times yet
that's the attitude you and the bullies convey with your "irresponsible
and dangerous" finger pointing at cyclists who are operating legally and
responsibly.

Since when does an uninformed opinion carry more weight than the law?
Since when have people come to believe that they can use "safety" to
contravene laws when the laws are written to be followed and if followed
they ensure safety for all involved? Try to get grounded and real about
this. Try to let go of your biases.

Shad O'Shay
Hustlin' Hank - 12 Apr 2007 23:04 GMT
> No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and ride
> thousands of miles upon the roadways without being constantly harassed
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Shad O'Shay

My "biases" are based on my experience the same as yours. I agree that
you may have all the legal rights as a motor vehicle, no question.
But! Too many times I have seen bicyclists ride between me and the
curb to get to the front of the line at the light. THAT is illegal and
dangerous. <~~~possible reason for bias.

As an RV'er, motorcyclist, auto, and truck driver, I don't think ALL
cyclists do this. I have also seen motorcycles split the lanes in
order to pass other vehicles at over 80 MPH. That doesn't mean ALL
motorcyclists do it.

If you let this unfounded hate for RV'ers build up in you, you may
suffer some serious health risks that will over ride your effort to
stay in shape by riding a bike.

To help me overcome my biases, explain to me why there are miles and
miles of bike trails being made in every city, but cyclists continue
to ride only on the roads?

Hank <~~~~not too old to learn
Shad O'Shay - 12 Apr 2007 23:42 GMT
On Apr 12, 3:07�pm, "Shad O'Shay" <shados...@elsewhere.invalid> wrote:

> No need to apologize. I AM disgruntled. One cannot be a cyclist and
> ride
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Shad O'Shay

My "biases" are based on my experience the same as yours. I agree that
you may have all the legal rights as a motor vehicle, no question.
But! Too many times I have seen bicyclists ride between me and the
curb to get to the front of the line at the light. THAT is illegal and
dangerous. <~~~possible reason for bias.

As an RV'er, motorcyclist, auto, and truck driver, I don't think ALL
cyclists do this. I have also seen motorcycles split the lanes in
order to pass other vehicles at over 80 MPH. That doesn't mean ALL
motorcyclists do it.

If you let this unfounded hate for RV'ers build up in you, you may
suffer some serious health risks that will over ride your effort to
stay in shape by riding a bike.

To help me overcome my biases, explain to me why there are miles and
miles of bike trails being made in every city, but cyclists continue
to ride only on the roads?

Hank <~~~~not too old to learn

There are trail bikes and there are road bikes. I prefer road bikes. The
so-called bike trails aren't really bike trails at all. They are
multi-use trails. Horses use them, people jog on them, people walk their
dogs on them. People roller skate and roller blade on them. I've even
seen people running backwards on trails (what's that all about???)
Lately people are walking around with two walking sticks. In other words
it's next to impossible for a professional cyclist to train as hard as
he needs to train using trails. His races are run on roads and roads are
where he needs to train. That's it in a nutshell. When on the road as a
cyclist I am engaging in my profession. Other than professional truckers
and those commuting too and from work who can say they are doing
anything by recreational activities on the road? Since when has it come
about that a person engaged in recreation come to believe his recreation
takes precedence over my job?

You mentioned bicycles passing vehicles on the right. You seem to think
it's illegal. It's not in some cases. Here is one of them:

● Paved shoulders – Where a curb is not present,
the right-hand edge of a roadway is the line
between the roadway and the shoulder. Since the
definition of "roadway" excludes the shoulder
[§316.003], cyclists are not required to ride on
paved shoulders, although they may prefer to do so.
A cyclist may ride only along a right-side paved
shoulder, i.e., must ride in the direction of traffic,
since this is the only practical way to comply with
the requirement to obey all applicable traffic signals
and signs [§316.074].

So if the cyclist prefers to ride to the right side of the white line on
a paved shoulder it is totally legal for him to do so. And, it is
totally legal for him to pass a line of stopped cars on the roadway.

And here's another one:

WHEN OVERTAKING ON THE RIGHT
IS PERMITTED [§316.084]
Overtaking on the right is permitted upon a street or
highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied
by parked vehicles, of sufficient width for two or
more lines of moving traffic in each direction. The
driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another
vehicle on the right only under conditions permitting
such movement in safety.
A cyclist traveling in a bicycle lane, or in a lane wide
enough for motor vehicles and bicycles to share
(see "Roadway position" above) may pass motor
vehicles on the right, but must take care to avoid
turning vehicles. Passing is allowed in these
cases since there is sufficient width for two lines of
moving traffic (one of which is bicycle traffic).
20

See how you had no real clue as to bicycle law? And you seem to be one
of the open-minded people. But you just assumed certain things against
bicycle rights that are just plain wrong. A simple reading of bicyle law
would dispell these widely held misconceptions. Sadly, I don't know of a
single drivers license written test that even mentions bicycle law and
bicyle rights and motorists obligation to treat cyclists as they would
any other vehicle.

BTW the above are taken from:

FLORIDA BICYCLE
LAW ENFORCEMENT
GUIDE
A review of
Florida’s bicycle traffic laws
to help with warnings,
citations and crash reports
September 2006
All citations are to the 2006 Florida Statutes

Feel free to Google the pdf and read it for yourself. Florida law is
typical of most state laws because of uniform traffic control.

Shad O'Shay
Hustlin' Hank - 13 Apr 2007 13:57 GMT
> On Apr 12, 3:07?pm, "Shad O'Shay" <shados...@elsewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 139 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hustlin' Hank - 13 Apr 2007 14:28 GMT
> There are trail bikes and there are road bikes. I prefer road bikes. The
> so-called bike trails aren't really bike trails at all. They are
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> about that a person engaged in recreation come to believe his recreation
> takes precedence over my job?

I think most of the people that drive on the roads that see someone
peddling a bicycle thinks it is the cyclists recreation, not his
profession. So, are they wrong  for thinking that? I don't think so,
and I think you should cut them some salck in that regard.

As in all jobs or professions, nothing is perfect. Everybody who has
ever held a job found something to complain about, that's why they
call it a job. Apparently your profession has its drawbacks too. I
suggest you learn to deal with the drawbacks the same as others have
to deal with theirs or you won't get to the top (pun intended). :-)

> You mentioned bicycles passing vehicles on the right. You seem to think
> it's illegal. It's not in some cases.

The case I described is illegal in Ohio and most major cities. Country
roads are different as you say. So, the cyclists that pass a stopped
vehicle on the right between the CURB and the vehicle to get in front
at a stoplight is wrong and dangerous for the cyclist. Is this how you
train? I think not. I assume it is only done by the cyclists that do
it for recreation purposes only. They give the other cyclists a bad
name for sure. But again, there are always bad apples that ruin it for
the rest.

> See how you had no real clue as to bicycle law? And you seem to be one
> of the open-minded people. But you just assumed certain things against
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> bicyle rights and motorists obligation to treat cyclists as they would
> any other vehicle.

> Shad O'Shay-

I agree I know very little about bicycle laws. But I do know a
dangerous situation when I see one.

On a side note: Just because a truck driver, taxi driver, bus driver
or professional cyclist is on the roadway, that doesn't give them any
special rights that go outside the laws.

Face it, there are a.ses out there on the roads that we all have to
deal with, we might as well be as courteous as we can and don't let it
get us into a rage.

Hank <~~~courteous most of the time, gives the finger the rest of the
time  :-)
Eddie - 12 Apr 2007 19:44 GMT
>It's the noise. Way too many Harley Davidson owners think it's cool to
>remove the stock, legal and quiet pipes and install obnoxiously loud
>aftermarket, bone-jarringly noisy straight pipes. There's no excuse for
>it. Totally irresponsible behavior on the biker's behalf. And stupid
>because it results in discrimination against them, and rightly so. It's
>about time they were made to pay the piper, so to speak.

>Other than this glaringly rude and immature behavior, I think bikers are
>much safer drivers than RVers. Maybe it's because motorcycle riders
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Shad O'Shay.
I drive a transit bus.  My bus weights in at about 40,000 lbs.  The
other day I was waiting for the red to turn green (I was first) in the
right lane.  There were two other lanes to my left.  As the light
turned green for me I looked left, looked right and another quick
glance to left and floored it.  (don't worry they don't accelerate
like an M3)  As I started to proceed across the road I hear a really
loud (I knew it was a MC) noise.  Sure enough I looked to my left and
here comes a hog with a female passenger shooting down the road, not
slowing and running complete red.  If I had not heard that loud
muffler I would have continued crossing and the biker would have
t-boned me.  He was doing about 50 mph.  I wonder what kind of damage
he would have suffered t-boning a 40,000 lb bus?
Eddie
PaulT - 11 Apr 2007 12:33 GMT
>I am going to visit a CG/RV Park next month in Myrtle Beach. Altho I
> don't own a Harley (or even the clothes), the riders aren't allowed to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Hank <~~~still confused in this world

You must be going to Ocean Lakes.  I believe it is a noise issue.
You can have your bike at your site, but must walk it or tow it to
the entrance.  You are not allowed to start the motor.  I know
Lakewood CG next door and the KOA allow bikes to be driven
to and from your site.
Paul
 
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