Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / April 2007
Broken A/C
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David Moffitt - 25 Apr 2007 04:49 GMT How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on my 25' 5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I cannot determine what size it is. Would anyone have an idea what size BTU unit a 25' would have been equipped with?
If something can go wrong, FIX it! (To hell with Murphy.) When in doubt, THINK! If you can't win, change the rules. If you can't change the rules, ignore them. The squeaky wheel gets canned. Do things by the book, but be the author. If you can't beat 'em, join'em then beat'em. Everything in your life is based on something else and in order to live a full life you must find what lies at the root of all else. For me, it's my self.
GBinNC - 25 Apr 2007 08:54 GMT >How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on my 25' >5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I cannot determine >what size it is. Would anyone have an idea what size BTU unit a 25' would >have been equipped with? Take the cover off (inside, that is). There should be a label in plain sight that tells you everything you need to know about the model and size.
Replacing it should be simple (one you figure out how to work topside). They're not as heavy as you might imagine -- after all, they ride for years on an unreinforced fiberglass roof (at least, the one on my Class B does)....
GB in NC
Matt Colie - 25 Apr 2007 13:01 GMT David,
My 23' GMCMH has a 15k unit and it does OK, but we keep out of places that are real hot.
Is it the fan that quit or is it not making cold air? If it is the fan (that never gets the required lubrication service - more later), that can probably be replace for less than the cost of a new unit.
I take my rooftop AC off almost every fall. Otherwise I can not get the MH into the 10' barn door to do the winter work.
Find a good tree or something to lift from first.
Take the cover off the ceiling unit and disconnect the ac feed.
There are three or four (model dependent) big fasteners you will see then. Have the wrench ready.
Park under the hoist and go up and take the cover off the unit before trying to tie on and lift it. (intact covers are a valuable item - if it is - save it) The cover is held on by the nuts on the unit top.
Take a small piece of line (the units are not very heavy ~100#) to sling the unit up. There is often space between the roof seal and the rear support block that supports the compressor weight to get a line through there, but you will need more than that because the unit won't lift flat.
Then the hoist is attached, start to take up load. The seal is usually not typically glued to the unit but it often sticks so be real ready to push and pry to break it loose.
Now that the AC unit is hanging over your 5er, I'll leave you to figure out how you are going to deal with it.
More About little AC unit fan motor (as promised) Small AC units almost all have cheap little plain bearing motors. These motors have bearing that require occasional lubrication. The only way to do this is remove the cover (right!). On an RV unit the hard part is getting up on the roof. Then take of the four nuts and lift the cover off (do this before the wasps are active). Look for the two little covered tubes at the motor ends or little plugs in the motor end frames. That is where the oil goes.
House hold AC units are much the same, you only have to remove a couple of hundred sheet metal screws to get the window seal and covers off to get to the silly motor.
About the oil.... This is nothing special, but it is not automotive engine oil. This does not want the stuff that is in automotive lube oil. A bottle of multipurpose oil is cheap enough. 3in1 (if it is still out there) will do OK. WD-40 Will Not.
I hope this is help.
Matt Colie
> How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on my 25' > 5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I cannot determine [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > life is based on something else and in order to live a full life you must > find what lies at the root of all else. For me, it's my self. David Moffitt - 25 Apr 2007 15:04 GMT > David, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (that never gets the required lubrication service - more later), that can > probably be replace for less than the cost of a new unit. The compressor is not running, everything else works. Last year it was working so good it would cool it down quickly on hot August days.
> I take my rooftop AC off almost every fall. Otherwise I can not get the > MH into the 10' barn door to do the winter work. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >> your life is based on something else and in order to live a full life you >> must find what lies at the root of all else. For me, it's my self. Matt Colie - 25 Apr 2007 16:31 GMT >> David, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The compressor is not running, everything else works. Last year it was > working so good it would cool it down quickly on hot August days. <snip>
Dave, There is still hope...........
There are a number of minor electrical problems that could get you to the same place.
Free Advice (all the normal cautions apply) Get up on the roof. Take the plastic cover off and put a hand on the compressor.
If it is vibrating (and not making cold) - you lose - pass the cover to the ground and begin removal. Refrigerant leaks in little units are usually hard to find. It might be worth looking at, but at what these people charge it isn't worth looking for very long.
If it is not vibrating - you probably have a simple electrical problem.
There is usually a wiring diagram inside. The thermostat is a likely a failure as any other.
If you are not capable and do not have a friend that will climb on the roof for you, it is worth your while to get the unit down and take it to a shop.
Good Luck
Matt Colie
David Moffitt - 25 Apr 2007 17:06 GMT >>> David, >>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Matt Colie I was on the roof yesterday and took the cover off while the unit was running. All of the fans were running but the compressor did not run at all. No hum--- no vibration--- remained cool. I have looked on the web and cannot find a reference where it tells me what to check with an ohms meter --- ect. Any ideas?
Lee - 25 Apr 2007 19:56 GMT > I was on the roof yesterday and took the cover off while the unit was > running. All of the fans were running but the compressor did not run at all. > No hum--- no vibration--- remained cool. I have looked on the web and cannot > find a reference where it tells me what to check with an ohms meter --- ect. > Any ideas? If I remember correct there is a start/run capacitor on all AC's and if it does not work then the compressor does not run. Hey it is an old memory so if I am wrong correct me! That is a cheaper repair than a total AC but not sure how you would get it tested. Our repair people here probably can tell you either where to go to get it tested or how to test it yourself.
Lee (wish I was smarter) (in Florida)
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 25 Apr 2007 20:32 GMT >> I was on the roof yesterday and took the cover off while the unit was >> running. All of the fans were running but the compressor did not run at all. >> No hum--- no vibration--- remained cool. I have looked on the web and cannot >> find a reference where it tells me what to check with an ohms meter --- ect. >> Any ideas?
>If I remember correct there is a start/run capacitor on all AC's and if >it does not work then the compressor does not run. Hey it is an old >memory so if I am wrong correct me! That is a cheaper repair than a >total AC but not sure how you would get it tested. Our repair people >here probably can tell you either where to go to get it tested or how to >test it yourself. Yeh, Lee is right! A/Cs tend to last forever; and when probelms arise, they are invariably inexpensively electrical in nature. If not the start/run capacitors, the next suspect would be the compressor relay and associated relay-delay circuitry.
Lee - 25 Apr 2007 20:36 GMT > Yeh, Lee is right! A/Cs tend to last forever; and when probelms > arise, they are invariably inexpensively electrical in nature. If not > the start/run capacitors, the next suspect would be the compressor > relay and associated relay-delay circuitry. Hi Stan
Thanks, I figured someone would reply with a more informative answer!
Lee (in Florida)
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 25 Apr 2007 20:56 GMT >> Yeh, Lee is right! A/Cs tend to last forever; and when probelms >> arise, they are invariably inexpensively electrical in nature. If not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks, I figured someone would reply with a more informative answer! Not exactly a personal observation; but something I picked up from the Coleman Service Manual. While the sealed systems generally tend to last forever, electrical components (at least the kind and quality they select) don't. Coleman's Service Manual troubleshooting recommendations focuses upon electrical problems first; and place potential sealed system problems at the very bottom of the list as a last-resort consideration.
NotMe - 25 Apr 2007 20:56 GMT | > I was on the roof yesterday and took the cover off while the unit was | > running. All of the fans were running but the compressor did not run at all. | > No hum--- no vibration--- remained cool. I have looked on the web and cannot | > find a reference where it tells me what to check with an ohms meter --- ect.
| > Any ideas? | [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Lee (wish I was smarter) (in Florida) If it's a capacitor the unit would draw a lot of current and which would likely trip the breaker.
Could be a failed klicks-on (spl) or other overload cut out.
Testing requires a VOM and a bit of technical ability. If you don't know the drill you could get hurt.
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 25 Apr 2007 21:18 GMT >Testing requires a VOM and a bit of technical ability. If you don't know >the drill you could get hurt. Using a meter incorporating a capacitor-test function is a pretty commonplace instrument within the RVing community.
NotMe - 25 Apr 2007 21:59 GMT | >Testing requires a VOM and a bit of technical ability. If you don't know | >the drill you could get hurt. | | Using a meter incorporating a capacitor-test function is a pretty | commonplace instrument within the RVing community. Serviced HVAC systems years back (but not much of late, thank you very much) and don't have much faith in the 'capacitor test' function but then I usually had access to a swap out capacitors.
Regardless if the OP is not a bit electrically savvy they could get hurt.
David Moffitt - 25 Apr 2007 23:30 GMT Thanks to all for suggestions. I posted a question on an HVAC group and mostly got I didn't know what I was talking about or didn't want to pay for a service call. All of the HVAC places I called said they didn't work on them and the RV places immediately said I needed to replace the unit. It was working before winter but not this spring. The compressor (IMHO) would not have failed while shut off. All suggestions/ideas appreciated. I'm going to check everything with an OHMS meter tomorrow (except the capacitor). OUCH!
Matt Colie - 26 Apr 2007 01:33 GMT > Thanks to all for suggestions. I posted a question on an HVAC group and > mostly got I didn't know what I was talking about or didn't want to pay for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have failed while shut off. All suggestions/ideas appreciated. I'm going to > check everything with an OHMS meter tomorrow (except the capacitor). OUCH! ' OK Dave,
Now that we know something, let's try to get you along a little bit farther.
Lets also try real hard to not get you killed while we are doing this.
The compressor doesn't seem to run (by the by, many get cold when they run - unless there is something wrong).
Before you climb up on the roof, open the breaker for the AC and then turn it on MAX COLD.
There is a box (so called) on the compressor. Two wires go in. (Maybe two come out to a capacitor.) Push the spring that is over the top down to open it. Look in that box. There are two things in the box, a temperature limit switch (round thing held on by a spring) and a start relay that is usually plugged right onto the compressor terminals. One of the two inbound wires goes to the switch and one to the relay. With the unit unpowered (circuit breaker open), pull a wire of the temperature switch (Klikson is a brand name)(either one- it won't matter) use the ohmmeter on the switch - should be Zero If it has a capacitor, pop the little rubber cover off and remove one wire. Put your ohmmeter on it it should jump down and back up to infinity pretty fast. Now reverse the meter leads and do the same thing again. The same thing should happen. If yes, the capacitor is probably good. If not unscrew it and find someone (like an electric motor shop that can give you a second opinion. Because this is a hard wired unit (most RV are) we can't do the next test the way I would like to so...... (This why you turned it on.) Now measure resistance between the two wires that feed the compressor. Because you left the fan at max, this will read a small number of ohms IF the thermostatic switch inside is working. Last cold test. Measure between the switch wire you removed and the other inbound wire. This should be an even smaller number than you just got. IF it is higher than the fan, that is not good (it is also very rare). It could still be the start relay, but we are into really rare.
Only if nothing so far gives a definitive answer should you try the next trick. I would advise against doing it alone.
Reassemble any wires you disconnected, and power the unit up. The fan can be on low. Set you meter to read AC Volts scaled for 125. Now carefully measure the voltage between the two feed wires. I hope it says Zip. - Your problem is downstairs and cheap. If it is close to line voltage, not good. If you hear the compressor going: CLICK---HuMMM-CLICK----------CLICK--HuMM-Click. Shut it down, the click is the temperature limit switch which is also kind of a circuit breaker protecting things.
Well, I'm tired and my brain is getting fuzzy. If this doesn't get you there, come back with what you find and we can try again.
Best of luck
Matt Colie
David Moffitt - 26 Apr 2007 01:39 GMT >> Thanks to all for suggestions. I posted a question on an HVAC group and >> mostly got I didn't know what I was talking about or didn't want to pay [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Matt Colie Thanks!
Chris Hill - 25 Apr 2007 15:31 GMT >How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on my 25' >5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I cannot determine >what size it is. Would anyone have an idea what size BTU unit a 25' would Probably a 13.5. I changed one on our previous camper. It wasn't ducted like some are, and had no thermostat to mess with. The hardest part was getting it on the roof. Thank goodness the trailer was a Hi-lo. Only thing I did spedcial was wire the new unit up in the garage to make sure it worked before I installed it. I forget who sells them, but there is a place on the 'net if still around, has a good deal on the Carrier units.
William Boyd-II - 27 Apr 2007 15:20 GMT >How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on my 25' >5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I cannot determine [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I changed out a/c units on two of my previous RVs. Had a pickup with the standard tool box in the front of the bed. loaded the un-created a/c unit up on to the tool box. Placed two 2x4s up against the rv and roped the a/c unit up on to the roof. Once you take the inside cover off of the a/c, you will see the bolts that is run through the lower plate and up in to the a/c base. These bolts just hold the unit down tight on to a rubber foam square gasket that prevents rain from comming in under the a/c unit. Wires should be readily seen, make sure the power is off. Switch out the old for the new. How did I determine the a/c unit should be replaced rather than repaired, simple to me both units were more than eight years old and deserved to be relieved by another unit that would give just as good long trouble free service. As for the size of your old unit, I'm not sure but, you could have either a 15K or 13.5, with my make of rv I currently have the 15K is optional otherwise you get the 13.5. I guess one could make the thing work just as well if not better if you replaced what ever size it is with the larger unit. Installation instructions came with both the replacement a/c units I ordered. Here is one listing on a/c units just to review, I do not necessarily suggest you use this company. http://www.go-rv.com/coast/do/catalog/page?index=A&pageNext=TRUE&dealerId=7&page Num=296
This is the tech data on the Forrest River products. http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/default22.asp?nav=rec
 Signature BILL P. Just Me & DOG
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William Boyd-II - 27 Apr 2007 16:03 GMT >> How difficult is it to install a roof A/C unit? Mine has gone out on >> my 25' 5th wheel. After researcing the papers on my used Jayco I [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > This is the tech data on the Forrest River products. > http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/default22.asp?nav=rec Appears as though the Jayco is about the same. http://www.jayco.com/php/products/standards.php?id=125
 Signature BILL P. Just Me & DOG
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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