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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2007

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Onan Gen Problem

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Ken - 09 May 2007 16:00 GMT
I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
thing on it bogs it down to the point of non-recovery. I think I may
have a dead short in one of my batteries cause the charging system to
max out. Any opion on this? I have 2 6 volt trojans that are 5-6 years
old. meter says they are ok, I'm going to bring them to work and load
test them.
Harry Harris - 09 May 2007 21:15 GMT
>I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
> run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> old. meter says they are ok, I'm going to bring them to work and load
> test them.

Don't make me lose my patience with you too, Ken. Good Lord! How can
people here be so bone-headed.

1)  Fact: a generator has no direct connection to any appliance. Your
talking like it was run through gears or something solid. Stop it! Makes
you sound ignorant.

2)  Fact: There is no way load alone can cause it to bog down and die.
It's only coils of wire and magnets.

3) Fact: Too much load can only cause it to labor provided it has proper
fuel/air mixture, ignition timing, etc.

4) Face: TAKE THE f.cking CARBURETOR APART AND CLEAN IT - PARTICULARLY
THE MAIN JET and stop going off on a tangent.

Harry Harris (wondering if all RVers are dim bulbs)

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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Alan Robinson - 10 May 2007 04:58 GMT
>>I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
>> run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Harry Harris (wondering if all RVers are dim bulbs)

Harry,
   The FACT is that you've just demonstrated that Usenet advice may be
worth exactly what you pay for it - as your fact 1 isn't relevant, facts 2
and 3 are completely false, and fact 4 may or may not apply - but since it's
an emissions carb, isn't as easy as you would like to make it seem.

How many rv generators have you worked on? Or, more specifically, how many
Onan Microquiets have you worked on?

Alan
Jim - 11 May 2007 13:54 GMT
harris@thehilltopcafe.notagoodaddy (Harry Harris) wrote:
.....  
>4) Face: TAKE THE f.cking
> CARBURETOR APART AND CLEAN IT -
> PARTICULARLY THE MAIN JET and stop
> going off on a tangent.

>Harry Harris (wondering if all RVers are dim
> bulbs)
....

Since you're already yelling and cussing, I guess foaming at the mouth
is next.  Before you start....

It may NOT be possible / remotely simple for him to 'take the carb apart
and clean it'.. a lot of recent (past 10-15 yrs?) small Onans have carbs
that are designed to be replaced, not rebuilt.

I know this was true on my '99, '01 and '06 2.8 Microlites, which are
basically scaled-down clones of the 4.0 Microquiet.  Dunno if it's for
emissions reasons, or to make 'em cheaper to manufacture.

For the OP... Both of my earlier ones were varnished by PO's neglect.
They responded quite well to a Seafoam / Techron / gasoline
(~1/3  each)  mix fed thru the fuel filter, but it was over days, not
hours.  Ran them for just a minute each day to get fresh solvent into
the carb passages, for about a week.  They both ran fine after that.

If your stalling was caused by the microwave being on when the A/C
compressor cycled on, it's probably simply overloaded.  Likewise if you
tried to restart the A/C too soon; it can take three minutes or so after
the compressor cycles off for the head pressure to drop to 'acceptable'
levels.  
   
They will stall when overloaded.  They labor briefly, then die.  At a
guess, it's due to the voltage supply to the ignition dropping below
some threshold value for the electronics to work.

Jim, "Entropy never sleeps; do y'all?"
Ken - 11 May 2007 14:43 GMT
> .....  
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Jim, "Entropy never sleeps; do y'all?"

Appears to be running great now. I still need to change out the
batteries because the charger is running at max all the time. Thnaks
for the advise.
Alan Robinson - 10 May 2007 04:40 GMT
>I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
> run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> old. meter says they are ok, I'm going to bring them to work and load
> test them.

Several things to look at, Ken: does your water heater have an electric
element that is switched on? And is the fridge running on ac? Atwood water
heaters use a 1400 watt element - Suburbans use a 1440 watt element. The
fridge electric element is usually in the 200-400 watt range. The converter
(turns 120v ac into 12v dc to run lights, water pump, etc. and charge the
battery) could be drawing close to a thousand watts if it's charging the
battery at max.

The bottom line is that at some point in time, someone is going to have to
measure what your real load is, or test the gen with a load bank - only then
can we say whether the gen or something else is the problem.

Alan
Ken - 10 May 2007 15:13 GMT
> >I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
> > run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Alan

It has both electric and gas. I have tested the systems and the
generator will run everything in the trailer with the exception of the
Microwave or AC. However, I did test the batteries and both failed
heavy load testing. In my manual, that situation would have the
battery charger operating at 1000 watts all the time, thus running the
micro and ac would overload the system. I am going to replace the
batteries, re-test and see where I am. If that doesn't work I am going
to have the loads measured as you have suggested. I would also like to
say to all others on this board, your help has be vaulable as well.
However each and every thing that Alan has had me do thought this
process has lead to a positive result. I would use his advice without
question..... Thanks again for your help Alan. Ken
Lloyd B - 10 May 2007 15:54 GMT
>> >I am now looking at other loads on the system. The Ac will start and
>> > run now with hardly a blip to the gens RPM. However loading other
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>process has lead to a positive result. I would use his advice without
>question..... Thanks again for your help Alan. Ken

You should be thanking that Jonathan King, if anyone. He gave you a
troubleshooting tree right off the bat that would have found your
problem quickly without going on a wild goose chase and taking your
carb apart. As in any troubleshooting scenario, check the basics
first, reinvent the wheel later.

Lloyd B.
Ken - 10 May 2007 16:16 GMT
> >> "Ken" <kenambr...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, his information was good and I thank him for it, however Alan had
given me better info through another source before I posted anything
on this board. Because the repair facility was suggesting a new carb,
I have sought out several source for repair. As previously stated
THANKS TO EVERYONE who has lended their advise. By the way Lloyd I did
not see any posts from you???????
JerryD(upstateNY) - 10 May 2007 16:56 GMT
................problem quickly without going on a wild goose chase and
taking your carb apart.<<<<<<<

In all the years I have messed with cars, I have never had a carb that
needed to be rebuild.

Signature

JerryD(upstateNY)

Matt Colie - 10 May 2007 20:28 GMT
Wow - Jerry,

You got off easy.  As my old memory serves - I have had:
2 - power enrichment diaphragms fail
4 - floats  - sink
6 - acceleration (transition) pumps fail
10 - needles fail (both stick and not shut - no tally)
18 - main jets plug
countless that recovered when the main casting were cleaned to bare
metal and the carburetor reassembled with new gaskets and working parts

Secondary category:
2- internal SU internal linkages seize
2- Zenith Stromberg side diaphragms fail
4- SU slides jam with crud

Tertiary category (marine and small engine)
5- throttle shafts and or bushings replaces
8- float bowls that required cleaning of corrosion that was flaking
and plugging critical passages.

A carburetor rebuild (in my parlance) is when ever you have to take
every single piece that can come off apart clean it - maybe replace some
hard parts - and then put it all back together.   Fortunately, I have
had both and ultrasonic clear with a can of perclor and the requisite
can of hydroseal.

If it can be restored without a rebuild, that is always better.

I will admit that sometimes I did a "rebuild" only because I had clearly
identified that fuel metering was the issue and could not correct the
problem from external.  That does not mean that I could identify the
actual issue prior to reassembly.

Matt Colie

> ................problem quickly without going on a wild goose chase and
> taking your carb apart.<<<<<<<
>
> In all the years I have messed with cars, I have never had a carb that
> needed to be rebuild.
 
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