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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2007Any first hand knowledge on R-Vision/TrailLite (2005 25SB) ?
Looked at a 26 foot class c just now. I was VERY impressed with the quality inside. Has a 6.8 V10 Ford motor., is it reliable ? What about TRail LIte in general ? Thanks. ttt I would like to know also as we are thinking of going to a class C. TIA Sheryl > I would like to know also as we are thinking of going to a class C. TIA > > Sheryl It is equivalent to other low-priced class C's in terms of reliability and quality (rated in the 60's on a 0 to 100 scale). It does not retain its value well. The median sales price is 20% below list and it will lose 10-15% of the residual per year for the firstds few years. At 10 years it is worth about 40% of its original value. The upside is that it sits on a Ford chassis that has been extended to about 180 inch wheelbase. This makes it a bit better in terms of handling and weight carrying capability. The V10 will get you up hills better than the 6.0l 8. Not my review but rather what is found in http://rv.org/ If you want bonafide independent reviews of RVs, you will need to buy the book. Its worth the $100. Dave, now that you bought it, good luck. js Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do our homework. Probally will try finding a good used one. Thanks for any info you can pass along. Have a good day. Sheryl > Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting > the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheryl Born Free and Lazy Daze conbsistently receive the highest marks for reliability and value. > Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting > the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheryl Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for reliability and value. 'Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for reliability and value.' REPLY: Id consider them if the price were not so high . ; for the difference in price between them and an 'average' Class C, it will pay for alot of gasoline . Plus, im sure they use many of the same vendors that the other Manufacturers are using for appliances, electrical, motor, drivetrain, tanks, etc..(???) > 'Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for > reliability and value.' [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that the other Manufacturers are using for appliances, electrical, > motor, drivetrain, tanks, etc..(???) You are missing one important factor: The time and aggravation when it's in the shop. People wouldn't spend what they do for a better rig if it wasn't important. It's not like cars where a Honda Civic will give you as good mileage and service as a Cadillac Escalade. You are going to be living and traveling in this thing. The dealer isn't going to give you a loaner when it's in the shop for badly installed appliances, improper wiring, screws that didn't hold, cabinets that fell off the wall....I could go on for ever, but I doubt if you want to hear it. If you are planning to do a lot of traveling or full timing, you need to buy quality. The one-year warranty on the cheaply made RV will be up and you will be faced with paying lots more cash to keep the cheapie on the road and habitable. Unless you plan on getting rid of the cheapie while still under warranty, I wish you a lot of luck and suggest that you immediately begin contributing a monthly amount of your budget towards repair bills.  SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life 'You are missing one important factor: The time and aggravation when it's in the shop. People wouldn't spend what they do for a better rig if it wasn't important. It's not like cars where a Honda Civic will give you as good mileage and service as a Cadillac Escalade. You are going to be living and traveling in this thing. The dealer isn't going to give you a loaner when it's in the shop for badly installed appliances, improper wiring, screws that didn't hold, cabinets that fell off the wall....I could go on for ever, but I doubt if you want to hear it.' REPLY: Do Cadillac dealerships have a Service Dept ? How about Mercedes Benz ? I had a ride in a 1980's Mercedes once --- felt like my work van. In the past, ive bought lots of 'high end/quality' things , only to be dissappointed that they didnt hold up as well as something cheaper. Then i really feel taken. Further, you are assuming that the Class C im looking at has 'badly installed this and that' without even knowing for sure -- that is pure apriori- conjecture on your part Janet Lastly, there are certain practices that are used thruout the entire RV industry (IE: romex wiring , etc...) that are found on all rigs. 'If you are planning to do a lot of traveling or full timing, you need to buy quality. The one-year warranty on the cheaply made RV will be up and you will be faced with paying lots more cash to keep the cheapie on the road and habitable. Unless you plan on getting rid of the cheapie while still under warranty, I wish you a lot of luck and suggest that you immediately begin contributing a monthly amount of your budget towards repair bills.' REPLY: Buying expensive isnt always the route to go. In my trade (HVAC), people are brainwashed on the expensive Carrier Brand of residential equipment , and if you talk with Independent Contractors, theyll tell you that Carrier has put out some of the cheapest junk / poorly designed equipment out there. I could list examples going back to the 1970's when i first got into this trade. Often, the expensive brands are expensive due to the enormous amount of advertising and marketing they do . Given the fact that RV's are mass produced , assembled by people who only want to put in their 40 hours for the most part, and equipment/parts/appliances that comes from the same vendors .... Id rather settle for the Trail Lite ive looked over which shows signs of being better made than other simular brands while having a good $30-40,000 left over for gasoline, stocking the fridge, and car magazines :) >Given the fact that RV's are mass produced , assembled by people who >only want to put in their 40 hours for the most part, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >$30-40,000 left over for gasoline, stocking the fridge, and car >magazines :) Wrong, Dave. I don't know of any RVs that are mass produced, at least in my understanding of mass production. They are put together individually and not likely on a true production line. At least the videos seen on Travel Channel seem to indicate that. In fact, I would bet you can look at two sequentially made units and they would be using some different major items. RV manufaturers buy on the cheap to keeps costs low, even in the top end rigs. 'Wrong, Dave. I don't know of any RVs that are mass produced, at least in my understanding of mass production. They are put together individually and not likely on a true production line. At least the videos seen on Travel Channel seem to indicate that. In fact, I would bet you can look at two sequentially made units and they would be using some different major items. RV manufaturers buy on the cheap to keeps costs low, even in the top end rigs.' REPLY: ALL manufactured products are put together 'individually' and operate on the theme of mass production whether it be on an assembly line or in a 50'x50' working area. They have a certain amount of time to get the product finished and oftentimes there are incentive programs for factory personnel to get the job done faster . 'RV manufaturers buy on the cheap to keeps costs low, even in the top end rigs.'' REPLY: Yes indeed. There are many avenues Manufacturers take to keep costs low on products as well as their labor . But slick advertising, constant marketing hype , etc...detracts many Consumers from firmly realizing this reality. We all like to think the more money we pay for something, the better it must be for our use. >> Given the fact that RV's are mass produced , assembled by people who >> only want to put in their 40 hours for the most part, and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > using some different major items. RV manufaturers buy on the cheap to > keeps costs low, even in the top end rigs. I've been to more than half a dozen factories and all use some kind of a production line. The most entertaining is Newmar's where the coaches ride on a cushion of air and one small fellow can move a big Diesel pusher with one hand. Fascinating! SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >I've been to more than half a dozen factories and all use some kind of a >production line. The most entertaining is Newmar's where the coaches >ride on a cushion of air and one small fellow can move a big Diesel >pusher with one hand. Fascinating! What? Without a washing machine motor? GB in NC >> I've been to more than half a dozen factories and all use some kind of a >> production line. The most entertaining is Newmar's where the coaches [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > GB in NC Yes! SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > >> Given the fact that RV's are mass produced , assembled by people who > >> only want to put in their 40 hours for the most part, and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Bad spelling. Bad punctuation > Good Friends. Good Life I went to the Lazy Daze factory and took a tour with Steve, the owner. He showed me pretty much each step of the process - the RV travels from bay to bay with each major part of the assembly done in a different bay. The paint booth's were interesting. It takes a week just to do the paint work. I'm going up there next month to see the rig in its "infancy" and maybe once or twice after just to see the progress. It's nice to have first hand knowledge of how this works and even better, to personally meet the people responsible for building your rig. Craftsmanship is not a lost art. Pride in your work at Lazy Daze is all about. To me that makes a difference - one that I am willing to pay for. The guy on the line at Fourwinds in Indiana probably doesn't really care about the guy in California stuck on the side of the road because he put a bolt in wrong or his boss ordered marginal parts or a weld let go. I guess when you provide a lifetime warranty on your work you have a much greater interest in making sure its right the first time. That and using real wood and aluminum instead of pressboard and fiberglass can make a difference, too, in both quality and price. js > It's nice to have first hand knowledge of how this works and even > better, to personally meet the people responsible for building your [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > instead of pressboard and fiberglass can make a difference, too, in > both quality and price. Well said! Anyone who is serious about buying a new RV should tour the factory. Not only will you learn about quality control and see how the workers do things, you can go to the waiting room for the factory repair shop and talk to the owners. BTW, the reason many owners bring their rigs back to the factory for work is the lack of qualified mechanics at the majority of dealerships. Everyone knows someone with a story of several trips to the dealership to fix the same problem that never does get fixed. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > > It's nice to have first hand knowledge of how this works and even > > better, to personally meet the people responsible for building your [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > workers do things, you can go to the waiting room for the factory repair > shop and talk to the owners. It's funny you should mention it. When I was at Lazy Daze I met two couples there. One was bringing in their 10 year old LD for its annual checkup - they said they did this every year in the spring before they hit the road and never had anything go wrong throughout their 6-month of travels. The second couple was there to pick up their new LD. They finally retired the 25 year old one they had inherited from grandpa. The 25 year old went to their son - four generations in one LD. > BTW, the reason many owners bring their rigs back to the factory for > work is the lack of qualified mechanics at the majority of dealerships. > Everyone knows someone with a story of several trips to the dealership > to fix the same problem that never does get fixed. Having the factory "local" is always better than not. Janet - knbow the difference between a $5 and $50 bottle of wine? It's just grapes, right? js > Janet - knbow the difference between a $5 and $50 bottle of wine? > It's just grapes, right? With my preference for "aged in stainless steel, vintage Tuesday, I'd say I pretty much have a handle on what I like. Taste has little to do, however, with the quality control procedures in the construction of an RV. Using your analogy, the $50 dollar winery has decent quality control where the workers who built the unit have a merit system based upon issues identified by quality control. They do good work or they don't get a raise. In the factories where there isn't a quality control program, the workers who do the assembly don't care what they do. Kind of the same reasoning as to why the Japanese made cars had so many fewer quality control issues than the American, Union made ones. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life 'It's nice to have first hand knowledge of how this works and even better, to personally meet the people responsible for building your rig. Craftsmanship is not a lost art. Pride in your work at Lazy Daze is all about. To me that makes a difference - one that I am willing to pay for.' REPLY: You can get first hand knowledge at any factory RV tour. The amount of pride is roughly the same amongst installers . They are all paid aout the same for their locale. You luck out if you get a few people who love thier work. But you dont know for sure . You cant obviously. 'The guy on the line at Fourwinds in Indiana probably doesn't really care about the guy in California stuck on the side of the road because he put a bolt in wrong or his boss ordered marginal parts or a weld let go. ' REPLY: Pure speculation . You simply dont know for sure. 'I guess when you provide a lifetime warranty on your work you have a much greater interest in making sure its right the first time.' REPLY: Not necessarily once again. It could be just their way of ascertaining more consumer business while they take their chances on giving a long warranty. 'using real wood and aluminum instead of pressboard and fiberglass can make a difference, too, in both quality and price.' REPLY: Lazy DAze isnt the only one using wood, etc... The TRailLite im buyin does too. Sturdy everything, nicely ran wiring, and all the other frills....$36,500 with 27,000 miles warranty left. make a difference, too, in both quality and price.' > REPLY: Lazy DAze isnt the only one using wood, etc... The TRailLite im > buyin does too. Sturdy everything, nicely ran wiring, and all the other > frills....$36,500 with 27,000 miles warranty left. There are a lot of people who believe that wood framing is an invitation to wood rot. In my personal, humble, opinion, I would not purchase a motorized RV with wood framing. Wood cabinets are fine, but I'd rather the framing members be metal. Weight is one consideration. Durability is another. BTW, there are various levels of "wood" framing. Some of the most expensive fifth wheels are stick-built and some of the cheapest fifth wheels are also stick-built. There is a huge difference in how the wood is used. Factory visits *are* important. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not telling the truth. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life 'There are a lot of people who believe that wood framing is an invitation to wood rot. In my personal, humble, opinion, I would not purchase a motorized RV with wood framing. Wood cabinets are fine, but I'd rather the framing members be metal. Weight is one consideration. Durability is another.' REPLY: I never said anything about wood framing . I was referring to the cabinets being wood. 'Factory visits *are* important. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not telling the truth.' REPLY: I agree, but, youre not going to see anything truly outstanding in the way MotorHomes are assembled . Nearly all of the assembly are common practices thruout the industry. > 'Factory visits *are* important. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not > telling the truth.' > > REPLY: I agree, but, youre not going to see anything truly outstanding > in the way MotorHomes are assembled . Nearly all of the assembly are > common practices thruout the industry. That's not entirely true. Different factories have different levels of quality control. Newmar, when we visited the factory, took a lot of pride in weighing each unit as it came off the line complete with options. The new owner knew exactly what the dry weight was because that unit was put on a computerized scale. They also put every single unit into a rain booth to check for leaks. It was very impressive. We visited other factories, and only one other, Peterson who makes the Excel line of fifth wheels, compared in craftsmanship. We were quite disappointed by a few who styled themselves as "high-end" We did our visits in 1999 when looking for a 2000 unit, so things might have changed since then, but we definitely saw significant differences at each factory. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life 'That's not entirely true. Different factories have different levels of quality control. Newmar, when we visited the factory, took a lot of pride in weighing each unit as it came off the line complete with options. The new owner knew exactly what the dry weight was because that unit was put on a computerized scale. They also put every single unit into a rain booth to check for leaks. It was very impressive. We visited other factories, and only one other, Peterson who makes the Excel line of fifth wheels, compared in craftsmanship. We were quite disappointed by a few who styled themselves as "high-end" We did our visits in 1999 when looking for a 2000 unit, so things might have changed since then, but we definitely saw significant differences at each factory.' REPLY: Expensive upper end Class A and 5th's there may be some differences , but on Class B and C's its more consistent ; how many different ways are there to install a Dometic Fridge, Microwave, holding tanks, and Generator ? They all use romex wiring bundled together , Onan or Generac generators with transfer switches, roof mounted A/C , etc. I agree with y ou , if someone is buying a brand new RV, it would be informative to visit the respective Plant to see how it is made. In fact, if i end up buying this 2005 TrailLite with 8,600 miles on it, Id still like to tour the Plant since its roughly 5 hours from me. I toured the Corvette Plant in Bowling Green, Ky last year and they too put every Corvette thru a blast Washer at the end ; theyre reject rate on water leakage is 1% which they take care of in a special section right away. > 'That's not entirely true. Different factories have different levels of > quality control. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > on water leakage is 1% which they take care of in a special section > right away. There is probably only one way to install the Dometic fridge, but there are workers who care and workers who don't. Having been around RVs for a long, long time, I can tell you that many warranty issues arise from poor installation, improper wiring, etc. It's not the components, it's the person installing them. It's not the wiring, it's the person doing the wiring. No human is perfect which is why RV plants should have quality control inspectors. The big difference between a quality product and junk is the quality control. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > No human is perfect which is why . . . Speak for yourself. Some of us ARE perfect. Shad O'Shay 'but there are workers who care and workers who don't. Having been around RVs for a long, long time, I can tell you that many warranty issues arise from poor installation, improper wiring, etc. It's not the components, it's the person installing them. It's not the wiring, it's the person doing the wiring.' REPLY: Agree. And these types of workers can be found in every Factory . 'No human is perfect which is why RV plants should have quality control inspectors. The big difference between a quality product and junk is the quality control.' REPLY: Providing the Quality Control Inspectors are of good quality too and that higher Management isnt willing to compromise quality for greater profitability which their pay bonuses are based on . Regardless of what you buy and how much you spend for it, you take a chance on what you cant see and dont know behind the scenes of a Consumer Factory Tour because youre not privy to that . > REPLY: Providing the Quality Control Inspectors are of good quality too > and that higher Management isnt willing to compromise quality for > greater profitability which their pay bonuses are based on . Regardless > of what you buy and how much you spend for it, you take a chance on > what you cant see and dont know behind the scenes of a Consumer Factory > Tour because youre not privy to that . You can see the "behind the scenes" on a factory tour. Just because the guide doesn't point it out, doesn't mean that a savvy "tourist" won't be looking. We saw the most abominable behind the wall constructions at Travel Supreme. No one pointed it out. We looked and we saw that no two pieces of wood met at a joint. All was held together by staples with air between the pieces of wood. These structures went behind the wall board so owners wouldn't see it, but we did. We were totally turned off. Later we met three other couples who'd taken their tour a year before or after we did ours. All reported the same lack of quality on the wall frames. No one would ever see this on a dealer lot or at an RV show. Factory tours are still the best way to see for ones self the kind of quality that goes into building a rig. One does have to have a basic knowledge of what's right and wrong in construction. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >Factory tours are still the best way to see for ones self the kind of >quality that goes into building a rig. One does have to have a basic >knowledge of what's right and wrong in construction. Amen, seestah. Anyone contemplating laying out big bucks without seeing how the coaches are built deserves whatever happens to him, or her. any Country Coach owners I met followed the construction of their coaches by visiting the plant and watching step by step. When we bought our Monaco, we visited the plant, took the really intesting tour, and learned a lot about how quality is built in from the road up, Don't forget to sign up in FMCA while you still meet the guidelines. Tell me you didn't get one of those border passports that allow easy entrance to Canada. Missed you, a firm handshake of congratulations on surviving the recent unpleasantness, maybe even a polite 'telephone book distance' hug. Sorry I wasn't here to throw a few attaboys at you. Canoli > Don't forget to sign up in FMCA while you still meet the guidelines. > Tell me you didn't get one of those border passports that allow easy > entrance to Canada. <vbg> Survived being a motorhome owner for 2 years without any need for FMCA. Canada is not in our travel plans so we won't need the pass. If we do return, I don't expect we shall have any problems. We will just avoid Quebec, that "other" Canada <g> > Missed you, a firm handshake of congratulations on surviving the > recent unpleasantness, maybe even a polite 'telephone book distance' > hug. Sorry I wasn't here to throw a few attaboys at you. Thanks, Canoli. Same to you on surviving your unpleasantness. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >I've been to more than half a dozen factories and all use some kind of a >production line. The most entertaining is Newmar's where the coaches >ride on a cushion of air and one small fellow can move a big Diesel >pusher with one hand. Fascinating! Production line does not mean 'mass production'. In a former life I was a production manager in a semiconductor house. Mass production to me and others in the business means thousands of items built by machines in a totally controlled manner. For example, in the semiconductor biz, the die is attached to the pinned header at precisely controlled temperatures. The device is then wire bonded to provide wires from the silicon chip to the header. This wire bonding is done with a machine that is capable of endless repetition without getting tires or doing it differently. When we used manual bonders, the failure rate was in measured percentages. With the advent of the computer controlled machine, the failure rate went into <1,000,000. Millions of devices are produced and each can be assumed to be the same as the one before. I later went to quality management and had to assure the quality of the devices. My products were used in the most hostile environments (military and automotive). Anyway, mass produced materials in my sense are identical. Line produced products can and do have wide varying specifications. If a worker is working on an Itasca with a W22 chassis one day, and a Horizon with a Freightliner the next, the machines are NOT mass produced. JMHO. >'Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for >reliability and value.' [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >that the other Manufacturers are using for appliances, electrical, >motor, drivetrain, tanks, etc..(???) I find it funny to watch you two argue a philosophical approach to buying products that everybody understands is built individually and whose quality varies all over the board from piss poor to extremely good. I would guess that getting a dud is less likely from Prevost than it is from Southwind but I have heard horror stories about both and I have heard of kudos to both. On any individual unit, I suspect a gently used low end with documented service and history MAY be better bargain than a Prevost that has unfortunately lost its records. 'I find it funny to watch you two argue a philosophical approach to buying products that everybody understands is built individually and whose quality varies all over the board from piss poor to extremely good. I would guess that getting a dud is less likely from Prevost than it is from Southwind but I have heard horror stories about both and I have heard of kudos to both. REPLY: Yes, which goes to show that no amount of money spent is going to be a guarantee of satisfaction. In reality, one important factor is how many disgruntled employees are working on your RV as its being assembled. Couple that with the Companys desire to make as much profit as possible, to crank them out fast, human error, etc, etc... and you end up with a gamble on the finished product / service. This is why you seldom find a Home that was correctly built...even 'exclusive' promoted Homes in a nice area. 'On any individual unit, I suspect a gently used low end with documented service and history MAY be better bargain than a Prevost that has unfortunately lost its records.' REPLY: It very well could be. > Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting > the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheryl Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for reliability and value. > Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting > the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheryl Born Free and Lazy Daze consistently receive the highest marks for reliability and value. > Thaks so much...we've camped for years...40ft. fifthwheel...but starting > the hunt for a good Class C. Not in a big hurry but certainly need to do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheryl Sheryl, Just a quick note. We had two large fifth wheels. Full timed in both of them. When we lost the last one and it's tow vehicle in a wreck we decided to take the insurance money and get a class A as we had just bought a house and didn't need a fulltiming rig any more. I hate the class A! I would much, much rather be in a trailer than a motorhome. I might be happier in a class C than the a 37 foot class A, but DH isn't up to getting another rig that I'll complain about. <g> Do yourself a favor and rent a class C for a weekend and see how you like traveling and camping in it before you buy it. Another friend of mine who was in a fifth wheel for many years bought a class C when she moved into a land house and was not happy either. You might be better off going to a smaller fiver. JMHO Janet, Trailer Trash Forever SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > The upside is that it sits on a Ford chassis that has been extended to > about 180 inch wheelbase. This makes it a bit better in terms of > handling and weight carrying capability. The V10 will get you up hills > better than the 6.0l 8. Are you talking about the 6.0L diesel? If so, I want some of what you are smoking. SignatureFrank Tabor Q: Why haven't you graduated yet? A: Well, Dad, I could have finished years ago, but I wanted my dissertation to rhyme. 'It is equivalent to other low-priced class C's in terms of reliability and quality (rated in the 60's on a 0 to 100 scale).' REPLY: Compared to a Coachmen Freedom Class C, the cabinets and doors are superior in the Trail Lite. In fact, id have to rate it higher than 'a low end' unit. I crawled around under the Rig , examined the V10 motor well, test drove it over all sorts of terrain, braked hard with it, etc...and I have to give it higher marks than anything ive looked at over the last few months., including the equivalent : Gulfsteam, Forest River, Four Winds, Coachmen, and a couple other more obscure names. 'The median sales price is 20% below list and it will lose 10-15% of the residual per year for the firstds few years. At 10 years it is worth about 40% of its original value.' REPLY: Doesnt matter much if youre going to hang onto it for a very long time. Which i do with all my vehicles. 'Dave, now that you bought it, good luck. js' REPLY: Well, I havent exactly bought it yet...but, im foaming at the mouth about it , have decided its THE best ive seen so far, is available at $7,000 less than NADA 'average' condition price even though its immaculate, has a mere 8,600 miles on it for a 2005 , comes with the remaining Ford warranty to 36,000 miles, and totally fits my length and space requirements. Unless i see something better in the next few days, ill be going to the bank . On May 23, 3:22 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'It is equivalent to other low-priced class C's in terms of reliability > and quality (rated in the 60's on a 0 to 100 scale).' [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > space requirements. Unless i see something better in the next few days, > ill be going to the bank . There's no talking you out of it. According to the owners and services technicians polled by RV.Org, it is only marginally better than crap. I read through some of the owner comments - and the one continuing theme is that the rig is in the shop a lot. You get what you pay for. js 'Well, I havent exactly bought it yet...but, im foaming at the mouth about it , have decided its THE best ive seen so far, is available at $7,000 less than NADA 'average' condition price even though its immaculate, has a mere 8,600 miles on it for a 2005 , comes with the remaining Ford warranty to 36,000 miles, and totally fits my length and space requirements. Unless i see something better in the next few days, ill be going to the bank . ' JS: There's no talking you out of it. According to the owners and services technicians polled by RV.Org, it is only marginally better than crap. I read through some of the owner comments - and the one continuing theme is that the rig is in the shop a lot. You get what you pay for. js. REPLY: Theres no talking me into paying an extra $30-40 k. for a new LazyDaze, thats for sure ; Ill take my chances on the 'inferior' quality of a Trail Lite ; $30-40 k. will buy me ALOT of aggravation besides gasoline for many years to come. The old adage 'you get what you pay for' isnt always true as ive already pointed out in this thread ; you can pay alot more for something only to have problems with it too as paying more money doesnt gaurantee anything . Been there, done that. Perhaps its you who is foolish in believing the hype that youll be actually getting an additional $30-40k. worth of quality by paying thru the nose ; Im willing to bet that your expensive rig will end up in the shop before the warranty period runs out due to either a breakdown, malfunction, and/or quality issue with the Coach. The Trail-Lite i get may too...except Ill have $30-40 k. gaining interest for my trouble. By the way, i do very much appreciate the info you shared with me in the emails from that book . Thanks for taking the time to do so JS. On May 24, 3:22 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'Well, I havent exactly bought it yet...but, im foaming at the > mouth about it , have decided its THE best ive seen so far, is available [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > LazyDaze, thats for sure ; Ill take my chances on the 'inferior' > quality of a Trail Lite ; Yes - that you will. > $30-40 k. will buy me ALOT of aggravation That's pretty funny. I've spent a good part of my life solving other people's problems and I neverhad a client tell me that even though I am far more pricey than others that it wasn't worth it. > besides gasoline for many years to come. The old adage 'you get what > you pay for' isnt always true as ive already pointed out in this thread You do get what you pay for - whether you believe it or not. > ; you can pay alot more for something only to have problems with it too > as paying more money doesnt gaurantee anything . Been there, done that. Not my experience. Though throughout life I have tended to buy on the higher as opposed to the lower end of the commercial price spectrum. I rarely if ever fly coach, for example. Been doing that for the last 15 years. I'm much too old for the hassle factor. > Perhaps its you who is foolish in believing the hype that youll be > actually getting an additional $30-40k. worth of quality by paying thru > the nose ; Im willing to bet that your expensive rig will end up in the > shop before the warranty period runs out due to either a breakdown, > malfunction, and/or quality issue with the Coach. It would be a rarity but I suppose it could happen. At least I know that if it does, the warranty work will actually get done, quickly and professionally. > The Trail-Lite i get > may too...except Ill have $30-40 k. gaining interest for my trouble. I don't view having the coach in the shop for three months in the summer as a good investment. I also don't think breaking down on the road is so much fun either. But then again, for some people insurance seems like a waste of money too. > By the way, i do very much appreciate the info you shared with me in the > emails from that book . Thanks for taking the time to do so JS. I'll think of you when I see a trailite on the side of the road. Happy travels. js > On May 24, 3:22 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > js The bitter taste of poor quality lingers far longer than the sweet taste of low price. Shad O'Shay 'The bitter taste of poor quality lingers far longer than the sweet taste of low price. Shad O'Shay' REPLY: 'The bitter taste of expecting higher quality cause you paid more which didnt live up to your expectations , lingers far longer than the sweet taste of a lower price on something that was just as good' . 'Yes - that you will. ' REPLY: Not necessarily ; how could you possibly know FOR SURE that ill have any problems , few problems, or many problems ? You cant. Its only conjecture , and, you assume that paying more money guarantees greater satisfaction. Thats not always the case . 'That's pretty funny. I've spent a good part of my life solving other people's problems and I neverhad a client tell me that even though I am far more pricey than others that it wasn't worth it.' REPLY: Did you ask them though ?! As a small independent HVAC contractor, I am far less pricey than my competition that runs 6 service vehicles and ive had customers tell me that I do good work and charge reasonably. And, they tell me my response time is good too. So...sometimes cheaper works out well for people. Often, you can save money and still be 'a happy camper'. 'You do get what you pay for - whether you believe it or not.' REPLY: Yes..sometimes you get screwed for having payed too much. 'Not my experience. Though throughout life I have tended to buy on the higher as opposed to the lower end of the commercial price spectrum. I rarely if ever fly coach, for example. Been doing that for the last 15 years. I'm much too old for the hassle factor.' REPLY: Alot of money saved is good reserve for any hassle factor ; its far better than paying thru the nose and still having a hassle factor to deal with. When you pay more for a product, it is still a gamble whether it will meet your expectations . Lest you think that Mercedes owners are 100 percent satisfied owners cause they paid more ; if that were the case, there would be no Service Dept. at Mercedes Dealers. 'It would be a rarity but I suppose it could happen. At least I know that if it does, the warranty work will actually get done, quickly and professionally.' REPLY: No..you dont know that ; its all a matter which repair person works on your RV . Just because they work on (or for) LazyDaze , it doesnt automatically mean they will satisfy you and do the work right the first time. What you dont understand is : There are variables which are common to mankind -- you MAY get it done quickly and professionally, or, you may be disappointed with one or both. You simply dont know till it occurs. Paying out more money is no gaurantee of that either. One thing IS for sure though : Youll be getting the same interior equipment that Ill have in my RV because it all comes from the same vendors. 'I don't view having the coach in the shop for three months in the summer as a good investment. I also don't think breaking down on the road is so much fun either. But then again, for some people insurance seems like a waste of money too.' REPLY: Did you look into your crystal speculation ball and determine what the future is going to bring with my Trail Lite complete with a precise time period ??! Can you predict future breakdowns on the road too ?? Youre trying hard to justify spending that additional $40 k. thru an apriori philisophical bias , but its only pessimistic speculation to help you with the pain of spending considerably more money (going basically toward labor mostly). 'I'll think of you when I see a trailite on the side of the road.' REPLY: It will most likely be me stopping for a rest to count the money i saved (again) , and, to have a cold one in celebration. On May 24, 5:10 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'Yes - that you will. ' > > REPLY: Not necessarily ; how could you possibly know FOR SURE that ill > have any problems , few problems, or many problems ? You cant. Its > only conjecture , and, you assume that paying more money guarantees > greater satisfaction. Thats not always the case . I gave you the consumer satisfaction ratings...if you can't do the math then its your problem. > 'I'll think of you when I see a trailite on the side of the road.' > > REPLY: It will most likely be me stopping for a rest to count the money > i saved (again) , and, to have a cold one in celebration. You're paying 45K for a 2 year old rig. Enjoy. Next year at this time we can compare notes on the value of an extra $1.80 per day. js 'I gave you the consumer satisfaction ratings...if you can't do the math then its your problem.' REPLY: That is no guarantee either ; its just that those polled either had a good experience or a bad experience. Im pretty good at math, science, and Jenga ... and especially how to handle money wisely. 'You're paying 45K for a 2 year old rig. Enjoy. ' REPLY: No, $35,600 for a 2 year old rig with 8,600 miles on it and factory warranty left on the drivetrain. I shall enjoy it and the money i didnt waste. 'Next year at this time we can compare notes on the value of an extra $1.80 per day.' REPLY: $1.80 extra per day... but you have to part with the additional $40-50 k. all AT ONE TIME. It should be a crime to waste that kind of money ; even if it came easy to you. On May 25, 11:39 am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'I gave you the consumer satisfaction ratings...if you can't do the math > then its your problem.' > > REPLY: That is no guarantee either ; its just that those polled either > had a good experience or a bad experience. Im pretty good at math, > science, and Jenga ... and especially how to handle money wisely. And you've pretty much managed to piss me off with your attitude. You and the trailite deserve each other. js > On May 25, 11:39 am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > js The dude still's using WebTV. That outta tell you something about how hopeless he is... Shad O'Shay 'The dude still's using WebTV. That outta tell you something about how hopeless he is... Shad O'Shay' REPLY: No., I just like the benefit of sitting back in my recliner 8' away being very comfortable. Has nothing to do with being 'hopeless' ; 4,000,000 webtv'ers find it enjoyable too. It works out just great plus...my webtv terminal cannot be hacked , given a malicious virus, plus the owner is now MSNTV / Bill Gates...whos everyones american hero - a legend in his own time. Did you know that half of the monthly webtv user fee goes to the International Federation of Cyclists benefit ??? You really shouldnt be bashing webtv . That is no guarantee either ; its just that those polled either had a good experience or a bad experience. Im pretty good at math, science, and Jenga ... and especially how to handle money wisely. JS: And you've pretty much managed to piss me off with your attitude. You and the trailite deserve each other. js REPLY: Its important to have an attitude of handling your money carefully . 'You and the trailite deserve each other. ' REPLY: Thats exactly what ive concluded also.
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