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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / May 2007Adding insulating foamboards on top, left, right side of 4.0 Onan (?)
Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. It has a 4.0 Onan Generator with the intake on the front and hot air discharge comes out the bottom. Id like to make it as quiet as i can from the living area, so, is it permissable to heavily insulate the outside of the Generators cabinet by packing dense Foamboard in the cavities around the top, left, and right sides ? On the top i have about a 6" clearance and on the left and right side , about 3" each. Have you done this , and what were the results ? Thanks, Dave. >Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. It >has a 4.0 Onan Generator with the intake on the front and hot air [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Have you done this , and what were the results ? Thanks, Dave. How hot the the surfaces in question get (best guess) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. It > has a 4.0 Onan Generator with the intake on the front and hot air [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have you done this , and what were the results ? Thanks, Dave. Is it air or water cooled? Does the engine compartment have an air flow fan? A temerature gauge you can monitor? Some foams outgass at elevated temperatures. What foam do you plan to use? Is it fire retardent? This type of system will work for all noise: http://focus.ti.com/vf/docs/blockdiagram.tsp?family=vf&blockDiagramId=6048 http://www.eetimes.com/story/industry/systems_and_software_news/OEG20001005S0030 I see where "Jonathan King" <purple1@xlsdx.com> contributed: >> Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. It >> has a 4.0 Onan Generator with the intake on the front and hot air [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >A temerature gauge you can monitor? Some foams outgass at elevated >temperatures. What foam do you plan to use? Is it fire retardent? Blah blah, blah. . . . . Stuffing insulation around an rv genset - particularly if done by someone as clueless as DaveILV - will make the generator VERY quiet. If you get my drift. Dave probably doesn't. RV gensets are very well engineered to provide quiet, dependable power. Amateur attempts to quiet them seldom reduce noise enough to notice, mainly because the majority of objectionable noise is conducted rather than radiated. Will Sill GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth." 'Stuffing insulation around an rv genset - particularly if done by someone as clueless as DaveILV - will make the generator VERY quiet. If you get my drift. Dave probably doesn't.' REPLY: Could you please add me to your kill file so I and others dont have to read your guff and inaccurate responses ? Much obliged. > 'Stuffing insulation around an rv genset - particularly if done by > someone as clueless as DaveILV - will make the generator VERY quiet. If > you get my drift. Dave probably doesn't.' > > REPLY: Could you please add me to your kill file so I and others dont > have to read your guff and inaccurate responses ? Much obliged. Will does make a very good point about the conducted noise. Your biggest decrease in noise may come from better isolation of the generator from the RV in its mounts. 'Will does make a very good point about the conducted noise. Your biggest decrease in noise may come from better isolation of the generator from the RV in its mounts.' REPLY: Its not always true . Im in the HVAC trade and i make a/c compressors quieter all the time by adding either a sound blanket around the compressor , or, fabricate a sheetmetal box to over the compressor and stuff it with loose-fill insulation. The noise reductions is very dramatic. Ive also drastically cut the noise level on blowers by insulating the inside and/or outside of the cabinet and a few other applications. In the case of the Onan Generator, I may also try special rubber isolation mounts in addition to the insulating boards. Dave >I see where "Jonathan King" <purple1@xlsdx.com> contributed: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > someone as clueless as DaveILV - will make the generator VERY quiet. > If you get my drift. Dave probably doesn't. I got the drift, why do you think I was pointing out noise cancellation methods? Why do you think I was asking about temperature monitoring? Did you get my drift? > RV gensets are very well engineered to provide quiet, dependable > power. Amateur attempts to quiet them seldom reduce noise enough to > notice, mainly because the majority of objectionable noise is > conducted rather than radiated. So how would you reduce conducted noise? 1. Check every fastener you can in the whole rv to make sure it is tight. If not tight can cause rattles and resonances. 2. Check the mounting structure of the generator for resonances and flexing. Sticking a large piece of clay on various points can show noise hot spots. If you find one add mass to dampen the noise. 3. Check or improve the genset mounts for better isolation. 4. Add mass to the genset. 5. Check for rotational cross products in the armature. 6. Sometimes a little jack pressure on the vehicle frame near the genset will reduce noise. It would help to know exactly what the noise is. Is it the sound of exhaust? Sound of air intake? Mechanical sound? These are clues that can lead to the problem. One can trace out the problem with a stethoscope or piece of tubing. blah, blah, blah! Will you are Silly. > Will Sill > GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you > want to make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth." 'Is it air or water cooled? Does the engine compartment have an air flow fan? A temerature gauge you can monitor? Some foams outgass at elevated temperatures. What foam do you plan to use? Is it fire retardent?' REPLY: It is an air cooled Onan which has its own internal fan that draws air in thru the front grille , then over the internals, and discharges out the botton thru holes . The engine compartment has its typical radiator fan only. I was going to use house sheathing panels from Home De Pot as they are very dense boards. The combustion temp. of the boards would never be reached from contacting the top and sides of the generator ; on my present 2.8 Onan, you can keep your hand on the cabinet after its been running awhile. Dave, High density foam board is just about the last thing you want to put there. It will transmit sound very effectively. There is material made for this purpose. It isn't cheap, but it does work. It is a specially designed multilayer sheet material that is high temperature and fire retardant. Go look up West Marine 216858. There are other suppliers, but this is the only place I know I can send you. I have installed this material and the change is notable. I have been planing on doing this in my generator space the next time I have the unit out of there. Matt Colie > Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. It > has a 4.0 Onan Generator with the intake on the front and hot air [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have you done this , and what were the results ? Thanks, Dave. 'West Marine 216858' REPLY: Thanks Matt. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DYNAMAT-10455-XTREME-SOUND-REDUCING-TRUNK-DOOR-DECK_W0QQ itemZ180119190509QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67760QQcmdZViewItem http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html John and Dave, This is the stuff you find stuck inside deck lids and doors so they don't ring. The ExtremeLiner is most like the BoatWest number. I don't have a supplier for the Dynamat line. Good luck Matt Colie > http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html 'I don't have a supplier for the Dynamat line. Good luck Matt Colie Jonathan King wrote: http://www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.htm' REPLY: Im familiar with dynamat as i have a Classic Car and alot of folks in that hobby have used dynamat . Dynamat is expensive to use and is no better than a 24' long generic roll of simular insulation matting from www.jcwhitney.com . Ive used it to go over my plastic wheel well liners and under the trunk and cab carpetting to deaden the noise level from the road/tires. Its effective., but Dynamat is grossly overpriced. But thank you for the thought. > Ive settled on this Trail Lite 26' Class C. which i testdrove today. > It [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Have you done this , and what were the results ? Thanks, Dave. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You silly RV morons. That would be like me buying a new, top-of-the-line, carbon monocoque framed, race machine for six large then writing to a professional bike racer group asking if I could improve the performance by putting plastic streamers on the handlebar ends and playing cards to snap on the spokes as they go by the fork. Freaking retards around here. Shad O'Shay 'Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You silly RV morons. That would be like me buying a new, top-of-the-line, carbon monocoque framed, race machine for six large then writing to a professional bike racer group asking if I could improve the performance by putting plastic streamers on the handlebar ends and playing cards to snap on the spokes as they go by the fork. Freaking retards around here. Shad O'Shay' REPLY: Please add me to your kill file at your earliest convenience . > 'Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You silly RV morons. That would be > like [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > REPLY: Please add me to your kill file at your earliest convenience . I don't have a killfile. I think people who have killfiles are stupid. What about that old saying about staying close to your friends and even closer to your enemies? Put it this way. There's plenty of riders I hate in the pro peloton. Some of them are real a.sholes - probably drive around in RVs in the off season. Should I put on blinders and pretend I don't see them? That would be stupid. They can cause me big problems if I don't keep a close eye on them. I must learn their cheap tricks, sleazy tactics and cheating ways. I must be fully aware of their unsportsmanlike conduct. I need to know how to neutralize their attacks. I must become better than they are. I can't do it by acting like them or acting like they don't exist. By sticking my head in the sand. By ignoring them. Know thine enemy! If a rider breaks away, I've got to be able to figure out if he's worth chasing down or not. I can't do this knowing nothing about him. Even if I hate his guts I've got to respect his ability to challenge or defeat me. It's easy enough to read idiotic posts and just say to myself, "That fool's not worth a reply." I can know and understand people by their posts. I can just consider the source and dismiss the people who can teach me nothing or can do me no harm - like a rider whose weaker than me. People who make a big deal out of killfiling people and try to get others to do the same are seriously screwed up people. They are so stupid and ignorant they don't realize they are harming themselves. Hurting their own cause. Being a bad example. Nope you can't win with a killfile. You can only lose. The bigger your killfile, the bigger loser you are. Life is like a Grand Tour. Shad O'Shay 'Please add me to your kill file at your earliest convenience . ' SOS: I don't have a killfile. I think people who have killfiles are stupid. What about that old saying about staying close to your friends and even closer to your enemies? Put it this way. There's plenty of riders I hate in the pro peloton. Some of them are real a.sholes - probably drive around in RVs in the off season. Should I put on blinders and pretend I don't see them? That would be stupid. They can cause me big problems if I don't keep a close eye on them. I must learn their cheap tricks, sleazy tactics and cheating ways. I must be fully aware of their unsportsmanlike conduct. I need to know how to neutralize their attacks. I must become better than they are. I can't do it by acting like them or acting like they don't exist. By sticking my head in the sand. By ignoring them. Know thine enemy! If a rider breaks away, I've got to be able to figure out if he's worth chasing down or not. I can't do this knowing nothing about him. Even if I hate his guts I've got to respect his ability to challenge or defeat me. It's easy enough to read idiotic posts and just say to myself, "That fool's not worth a reply." I can know and understand people by their posts. I can just consider the source and dismiss the people who can teach me nothing or can do me no harm - like a rider whose weaker than me. People who make a big deal out of killfiling people and try to get others to do the same are seriously screwed up people. They are so stupid and ignorant they don't realize they are harming themselves. Hurting their own cause. Being a bad example. Nope you can't win with a killfile. You can only lose. The bigger your killfile, the bigger loser you are. Life is like a Grand Tour. Shad O'Shay REPLY: Shad, Can u not reply to any of my posts then ? Id appreciate it . Thanks. Just maybe you should go to www.funroads.com, and buy and read the Onan Installation Manual for that model, 'stead of taking the advice of unknown, possibly unqualified, and maybe malicious strangers on the internet. That manual will tell you what general type of insulation can be used, and exactly how much clearance Onan feels is necessary around the generator box. Of course, this is only a potential life-or-death matter, so it may be better to cheap it out, save the ~$10 for the manual, and use what's on hand. So what if you're asleep in the RV when your jury-rigged insulation catches fire? Jim, "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." 'Just maybe you should go to www.funroads.com, and buy and read the Onan Installation Manual for that model, 'stead of taking the advice of unknown, possibly unqualified, and maybe malicious strangers on the internet. That manual will tell you what general type of insulation can be used, and exactly how much clearance Onan feels is necessary around the generator box. Of course, this is only a potential life-or-death matter, so it may be better to cheap it out, save the ~$10 for the manual, and use what's on hand. So what if you're asleep in the RV when your jury-rigged insulation catches fire? ' REPLY: Thanks for the funroads.com tip. Ill have a look.
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