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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / July 2007Has anyone ever tried this when buying a new or used RV ?
Once youve decided on which RV you want to buy, have you ever gone to the Seller (whether private or a Dealer) , with a Cashiers Check already made out in their name with an amount considerably lower than their asking price explaining this is all the money you could possibly scrape up while you lay it down in front of them ? It seems that it would show your definitive intent on buying it to wrap up the sale immediately and you just might find a Seller who is desperate enough to accept it , given his financial position . Im sure alot of good deals are had this way. Any thoughts ? Thanks. Once youve decided on which RV you want to buy, have you ever gone to the Seller (whether private or a Dealer) , with a Cashiers Check already made out in their name<<<< If they refuse, you then have a cashier's check made out to someone else. How do you cash it ?  SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) > Once youve decided on which RV you want to buy, have you ever gone to the > Seller (whether private or a Dealer) , with a Cashiers Check already made > out in their name<<<< > > If they refuse, you then have a cashier's check made out to someone else. > How do you cash it ? Just take it back to the bank you purchased it from and get your money back. Carla 'If they refuse, you then have a cashier's check made out to someone else. How do you cash it ? SignatureJerryD(upstateNY)' REPLY: You take it back to your bank who issued you it, and they return the money back to your account. Simple as that. >Once youve decided on which RV you want to buy, have you ever gone to >the Seller (whether private or a Dealer) , with a Cashiers Check already [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >immediately and you just might find a Seller who is desperate enough to >accept it , given his financial position. A cashier's cheque is hardly a positive bargaining chip; and in fact, is more likely to be a detriment to your negotiations. The days of realizing any kind of advantage from pulling out an enormous wad of cash, are long gone. A salesman could starve to death with that kind of customer! For example, vendors like Future Shop, Best Buy, etal, make far more $$$ from selling their so called extended warranty stuff, than from selling the actual product. So . . . since salesman isn't going to make a plug nickel from selling you one of those extended warranty thingys that after being screened by the fine print, covers absolutely NOTHING!! . . . One of my favorite and most effective approaches over the years, based upon solid knowledge, has been to employ a low-ball technique which seldom extends to little better than a mere 1% advantage. With an automobile, the general discount runs around 10%. So, attempting an unacceptable 11%-discount approach, even with a starving salesman, may not always work. One negotiating approach, may be to walk out of the showroom in a huff! A far better approach, might be to make an offer which you already know they will reject. But this is where the fun comes in. If you already know that they will reject your offer; that doesn't mean that you should refrain from presenting your frugal offer. Regardless of the intitial unacceptable offer, "Always leave the hungry salesman with an out!! When leaving the dealership with a rejected offer, ALWAYS leave the salesman with your name, phone number, etal; and invite them to give you a call if they change their minds!! The call, accepting your offer, shouldn't take more than a day . . . 'A cashier's cheque is hardly a positive bargaining chip; and in fact, is more likely to be a detriment to your negotiations.' REPLY: I dissagree. It just might cause a Seller to rethink his price, or soften him up to take the money (check) and run with it instead of hoping to get more money from someone else. 'One negotiating approach, may be to walk out of the showroom in a huff! A far better approach, might be to make an offer which you already know they will reject. But this is where the fun comes in. If you already know that they will reject your offer; that doesn't mean that you should refrain from presenting your frugal offer.' REPLY: Ive walked out in hurry with the sales manager hot in pursuit. Presenting a frugal offer during a time when the particular (RV, Car, etc...) market is soft...very well may result in you getting a very good deal. It doesnt hurt to try. 'ALWAYS leave the salesman with your name, phone number, etal; and invite them to give you a call if they change their minds!! The call, accepting your offer, shouldn't take more than a day . . .' REPLY: I just did this today as a matter of fact ; his asking price on the virtually new 2008 Coachmen Freedom Express 21QB with 2200 miles on it was : $45,500 . Hes owned it for 1 month and has used it twice. Him and his wife are going to get divorced. I suspect him buying the RV was a last ditch effort at trying to save the marriage. He also was selling his prize 1987 Corvette Convertible at the same time as his RV ... both were out on the driveway . The guy was obviously shaken up about his marriage being 67 years old . Dont know all the nitty-gritty , but, anyway....after looking over the RV , going for a spin, and having a cordial chat with him and her... I presented my made out Cashiers Check for $42,000 and asked him if he would consider it since its all the money i could scrape together. He said as it was he is taking a $6,000 loss over what he paid for it. I told him when you drive anything off of the Lot, it immediately depreciates a good 15% . He didnt budge on his price, so, I told him the absolute best i could do was $43,000 tops and told him he may not get any other offers with the market being bad for RV's now. I told him to keep my phone number and call me if he doesnt get any better offer. He said he would hold onto my number. We parted company under good terms and i think we both enjoyed the dialogue about his RV , etc... So... we shall see what happens. The key is to be prepared to walk away if need be. On Jun 23, 3:05 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'A cashier's cheque is hardly a positive bargaining chip; and in fact, > is more likely to be a detriment to your negotiations.' [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > about his RV , etc... So... we shall see what happens. The key is to > be prepared to walk away if need be. You don't need the Chashiers Check. Just the offer. A fellow I knew bought used cars that way. He would spend the day looking each telling the seller how much he would pay, sometimes half of what they were asking. He would leave his phone number. At the end of the day go home and wait for someone to call saying "come and get it". Then sometimes, not having registered it, he would immediately put it up for sale again at a much higher price. 'You don't need the Chashiers Check. Just the offer.' REPLY: Presenting a Cashiers Check shows youre a serious buyer and not playing games. Plus, its the psychological impact of having all that money right in front of the Seller that just might change his mind and accept it. > 'You don't need the Chashiers Check. Just the offer.' > > REPLY: Presenting a Cashiers Check shows youre a serious buyer and not > playing games. Plus, its the psychological impact of having all that > money right in front of the Seller that just might change his mind and > accept it. Personally I think it's dumb. The check costs you money and ties up your funds. An offer costs nothing and your cash is still available. Your thinking may work for you but not for all. The guy who bought our Award tried something similar. He showed up with two cashiers checks and wanted to take possession of the trailer then tow it home to another state. I checked with my bank and found that was not a good way to conduct the transaction. We went with an electronic transfer from his bank to mine. Why complicate a simple transaction by injecting a cashier check when an offer will suffice. A simple statement that the transaction will be in "cash" should be sufficient. Hugh 'Personally I think it's dumb. The check costs you money and ties up your funds. An offer costs nothing and your cash is still available. Your thinking may work for you but not for all.' REPLY: The cashiers check costs a very minimal amount...like $3 or $4 max. Some banks even do it for free if youre a good customer. If it isnt used, then it can be returned the same day back into your account. You may know ' your cash is still available' but the Seller doesnt know if you have the money or if youre just a time wasting 'tire-kicker' ; presenting full payment in the form of a cashiers check SHOWS that you had the money in your account, you are a dead serious Buyer, you want the Sellers Product, and you are ready to close on the deal . The Seller just might consider accepting it for a done-deal. So...i dont think its dumb at all, rather, a shrewd way to possibly buy something at less than asking price. It does require the Buyer to do his homework to fairly establish what the items value is , for which he can use as negotiating power in conjunction with his full payment Cashiers Check. Dave in Lake Villa wrote: The cashiers check costs a very minimal amount...like $3 or $4 > max. There are phony cashiers checks passed every day. I wouldn't just accept a cashiers check and give someone the title. You would be asking for problems. This happens all the time. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) 'There are phony cashiers checks passed every day. I wouldn't just accept a cashiers check and give someone the title. You would be asking for problems. This happens all the time. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY)' REPLY: I never suggested this. Its encumbant upon the Seller to make sure the Cashiers Check is good by calling the Buyers bank from where it was issued. If you still dont like dealing with cashiers checks, then demand Cash in a big bag ; just prior to Y2K , i had my bank give me $25,000 in large bills and it was counted out before me in a private room. just prior to Y2K , i had my bank give me $25,000 in large bills and it was counted out before me in a private room. So you bought into that Y2 scare, huh ? <g> You must be one of those doom and gloom Democrats. The sky is falling !!! The sky is falling !!! SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) 'So you bought into that Y2 scare, huh ? <g> You must be one of those doom and gloom Democrats. The sky is falling !!! The sky is falling !!! SignatureJerryD(upstateNY)' REPLY: SInce the Y2K Computer thing was unprecedented and even A.T.and T. spent millions of dollars computer reprogramming prior to Y2K...I viewed it as a wise move to have plenty of cash on hand. It was returned without any problem to the bank. Not doom and gloom...just precautionary. Im not a Democrat or a Republican ... i dont belong to any political party . I belong to a person namely The Creator. No, it sounds like he just wanted to be prepared, that's all. SignatureSteve Barker > just prior to Y2K , i had my bank give me $25,000 in large bills and it > was counted out before me in a private room. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The sky is falling !!! > The sky is falling !!! 'He showed up with two cashiers checks and wanted to take possession of the trailer then tow it home to another state. I checked with my bank and found that was not a good way to conduct the transaction. We went with an electronic transfer from his bank to mine.' REPLY: You could have called his bank to verify that the Cashier Checks were good before surrendering the property to him. | 'He showed up with two cashiers checks and wanted to take possession of | the trailer then tow it home to another state. I checked with my bank [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | REPLY: You could have called his bank to verify that the Cashier Checks | were good before surrendering the property to him. Not a very reliable option as despite assumption to the contrary Cashier and Bank Checks can have a stop payment issued. You could have called his bank to verify that the Cashier Checks | were good before surrendering the property to him. ' "Not a very reliable option as despite assumption to the contrary Cashier and Bank Checks can have a stop payment issued." REPLY: I dont believe a cashiers check can have a stop payment issued against it ; it is as good as cash . In the event that im wrong, then, you simply take the cashiers check to the Buyers bank (with him accompanying you if necessary) BEFORE you turn over the property. > You could have called his bank to verify that the Cashier Checks | were > good before surrendering the property to him. ' [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you simply take the cashiers check to the Buyers bank (with him > accompanying you if necessary) BEFORE you turn over the property. You are wrong, period. Check with your bank to get the straight scoop. Hugh > 'He showed up with two cashiers checks and wanted to take possession of > the trailer then tow it home to another state. I checked with my bank [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > REPLY: You could have called his bank to verify that the Cashier Checks > were good before surrendering the property to him. Wrong. He had the funds, that wasn't the problem. After I signed the title over to him, he could still have killed the check(s). As he lived several states away I'd have had to press charges and wouldn't have possession of the trailer. Hugh 'he could still have killed the check(s). As he lived several states away ' REPLY: Then this is a consideration if he lives out of state. > 'he could still have killed the check(s). As he lived several states > away ' > > REPLY: Then this is a consideration if he lives out of state. Or even if he lived next door. Once the title passes, it'll cost you to regain possession. Plus, you can't resell the item till the court returns it. Hugh On Jun 23, 4:05?pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: ?I just did this today as a matter of fact ; ?his asking price on > the virtually new 2008 Coachmen Freedom Express 21QB with 2200 miles on > it was : $45,500 . Hes owned it for 1 month and has used it twice. Him [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > about his RV , etc... So... we shall see what happens. The key is to > be prepared to walk away if need be. All sellers, dealers or private, are different. Altho the seller usually sets the price, it is up to the buyer to know if it is a good deal. Negotiating skills will help sweeten the deal for sure. Dealers have seen all the skills we buyers have and have other skills and knowledge that they use to get us to buy. They really don't care if you finance or pay cash. You don't need a cashiers check for negotiating purpose with any seller. A substantial cash deposit is all that is needed to get their attention. The "bird in the hand" theory. I lost a deal from a dealer because I wanted to use my VISA after we settled on a price. The VISA charge would have cost him more than he wanted to pay and would have deducted from his profit. So, we continued negotiations with him throwing in a couple extras if I paid cash. Since I pay my Visa off every month anyway, I only lost the reward points I would have got. The extras more than made up for those points. So, using the VISA was a negotiating tool for me. Hank <~~~tighter than a frogs a.s 'You don't need a cashiers check for negotiating purpose with any seller. A substantial cash deposit is all that is needed to get their attention. The "bird in the hand" theory.' REPLY: You may not need a Cashiers Check for negotiating purposes, but, to offer the Seller complete payment in one lump sum usually has a greater impact than putting a percentage down for a deposit. Plus the sale can be wrapped up sooner . This of course after the Buyer has made absolutely sure that the product is in fact what he wants , and, it is a good deal for him at the sum on the Cashiers Check. >REPLY: You may not need a Cashiers Check for negotiating purposes, but, >to offer the Seller complete payment in one lump sum usually has a >greater impact than putting a percentage down for a deposit. Dave, You are nutz! You are drawn toward destruction, like no one any of us have ever heretofore encountered! Aside from having a nose for picking yer new RV from the very bottom of the barrel; but you don't even have the remotest clue as to how to negotiate the transaction! Dave, You are nutz! You are drawn toward destruction, like no one any of us have ever heretofore encountered! Aside from having a nose for picking yer new RV from the very bottom of the barrel; but you don't even have the remotest clue as to how to negotiate the transaction! REPLY: I am not considering the Trail Lite RV any longer since hearing about its quality. As to what YOU think is proper to do...that is YOUR subjective opinion . There is more than one way to gain the upper edge on a sale . But..thank you for your contribution in this thread. On Jun 24, 10:48 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > Dave, > You are nutz! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > subjective opinion . There is more than one way to gain the upper edge > on a sale . But..thank you for your contribution in this thread. Dp you wonder how the Coachman is rated? 'Dp you wonder how the Coachman is rated?' REPLY: Who's 'Dp' ???? >'Dp you wonder how the Coachman is rated?' > >REPLY: Who's 'Dp' ???? Incapable of critical, independent thinking? It is easy to see he mis-typed "Do". But such thinking may be beyond you! > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:46:03 -0500, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Incapable of critical, independent thinking? It is easy to see he > mis-typed "Do". But such thinking may be beyond you! Now Dean - be nice. Dave is having a difficult time figuring out how best to "save" $30,000 by buying bottom of the barrel products. Since he seems to think all RVs are created equal, all that's left to do is to is to find the one that is the cheapest. The Trail Lite he wanted to buy was bad enough, but now he's even further down the quality ladder. Most deserving, I think. js 'Dave is having a difficult time figuring out how best to "save" $30,000 by buying bottom of the barrel products. Since he seems to think all RVs are created equal, all that's left to do is to is to find the one that is the cheapest. The Trail Lite he wanted to buy was bad enough, but now he's even further down the quality ladder. Most deserving, I think. js' REPLY: I had to hear a few other unbiased opinions on TrailLite before i drew solid conclusions ; as for the 2008 CoachHouse Freedom Express 21QB im considering, its head and shoulders above the TrailLite I was looking at. Id rather stick with the major players such as Coachmen, Thor, etc...than shell out unnecesary money to a Mfg'r that charges MSRP on their Class C. and tries to justify it by saying their Factory Installers are the finest in the nation, yada yada...ad nauseum. On Jun 27, 12:06 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'Dave is having a difficult time figuring out how best to "save" $30,000 > by buying bottom of the barrel products. Since he seems to think all RVs [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > MSRP on their Class C. and tries to justify it by saying their Factory > Installers are the finest in the nation, yada yada...ad nauseum. Wasn't it you who said this? "There are many avenues Manufacturers take to keep costs low on products as well as their labor . But slick advertising, constant marketing hype , etc...detracts many Consumers from firmly realizing this reality. We all like to think the more money we pay for something, the better it must be for our use." Like I said - you deserve it. Wonder why this guy is so anxious to get rid of a brand new rig? Getting a divorce is he? Too funny. There is only one RV rated lower than the one you are so in love wih (this week). So you have an opportunity.... js Who's 'Dp' ???? 'Incapable of critical, independent thinking? It is easy to see he mis-typed "Do". But such thinking may be beyond you!' REPLY: Dont skip your meds ; its not good for you. >Who's 'Dp' ???? > >'Incapable of critical, independent thinking? It is easy to see he >mis-typed "Do". But such thinking may be beyond you!' > >REPLY: Dont skip your meds ; its not good for you. ooooooohh. Clever response. I will, I certainly will. > Negotiating skills will help sweeten the deal for sure. Dealers have > seen all the skills we buyers have and have other skills and knowledge > that they use to get us to buy. They really don't care if you finance > or pay cash. Yeah, Hank, they do care. If you use their finance company, they get a kickback. I financed a small portion of my Kountry Aire so that the dealer could get a kickback. I made the payments for the 6 months the dealer needed so that the finance company paid him, then I paid off the note. The little bit of interest I paid for that 6 months still put me ahead on the deal. The dealer made himself more profit via the kickback. All parties were happy campers. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life > > Negotiating skills will help sweeten the deal for sure. Dealers have > > seen all the skills we buyers have and have other skills and knowledge [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Janet Wilder I was kinda being generic. The kickback car dealers use to get was 2% of the loan. I don't know what it is now, probably the same. Anyway, I am sure you paid more than that in interest over a 6 month period. Cash is usually the best way to buy 99% of the time. After I made my best deal on my 06 F-150, the dealer told me that FORD credit had a $1000 off if I financed thru them, which I did, after I read the contract first and it stated I could pay it off at anytime without penalties, which I did when I had to pay the first months payment. The Dealers have so many kickbacks, price reductions, and other incentives on new vehicles that is not known to us and the salesmen, it is almost impossible to know what the best deal is. Believe me, $100 over invoice don't mean squat on alot of unpopular vehicles. Hank <~~~looks at the bottom line 'it is almost impossible to know what the best deal is. Believe me, $100 over invoice don't mean squat on alot of unpopular vehicles. Hank <~~~looks at the bottom line' REPLY: You often see 'below invoice' advertised on cars ; theyre still making money even at that. On Jun 25, 7:47?am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: Dave, You forgot to answer teh questions below. Please try again. Why would you show up with a cashiers check for less money than the guy was asking? Had you seen it already? If not, wasn't that kinda "ballsy"? If you did see it, why didn't you settle on a price before you went to all the trouble to get a cashiers check? Hank <~~~full of questions 'You forgot to answer teh questions below. Please try again.' REPLY: Sorry Hank. 'Why would you show up with a cashiers check for less money than the guy was asking? Had you seen it already? ' REPLY: 1. Because no one pays the asking price , the Seller often inflates the asking price, and me as a Buyer am looking for an exceptional deal. 2. I had not seen it at his house...however, i did see it advertised in the local newspaper by the RV Dealer that he told me he bought it from. 'If not, wasn't that kinda "ballsy"? ' REPLY: If you want to call it that Hank ; I had never done it before and wished to give it a try. I think many Sellers , depending on how desperate they were, would have taken it . It was only $3,500 less than his asking price , and at the end of our conversation I upped it another $1,000 making it $2,500 away from his asking price. I told him whenever you drive a vehicle off the lot, it immediately depreciates at least 15% --- my final offer to him worked out to roughly 12% from what he initially paid for it. 'If you did see it, why didn't you settle on a price before you went to all the trouble to get a cashiers check?' REPLY: Like i said, i didnt see it at his house...only in the newspaper when it was up for sale by the local RV Dealer. It was no trouble getting the Cashiers Check for negotiating ; it was on my way to his house, and it took a total of 4 minutes waiting time at the Counter. Im going to hang onto the Cashiers Check because im expecting a phone call from him within another week or so , telling me hes had no other offers and he'd like to negotiate with me on the price. ( my offer limit however has already been reached ). Dave <<<<<<<< with quite a few answers. >DaveInLakeVilla@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: >REPLY: I just did this today as a matter of fact ; his asking price on >the virtually new 2008 Coachmen Freedom Express 21QB with 2200 miles on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >were out on the driveway . The guy was obviously shaken up about his >marriage being 67 years old . WWJD? I know! He would try to f.ck over an old man in crisis with a silly charade! SignatureDD > >DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > >REPLY: I just did this today as a matter of fact ; his asking price on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > DD ROFLMAO! That's what I was thinking and couldn't say it. Hank <~~~bashful 'WWJD? I know! He would try to f.ck over an old man in crisis with a silly charade! SignatureDD' REPLY: Its a shame you cant express yourself without resorting to foul talk. First off, i didnt know he was selling everything he had due to an impending divorce till i arrived on the scene. Secondly, how is showing up with a cashiers check , in full, 'a charade' ? Until you can practice some discipline in your replies...i wont be replying to you again. On Jun 24, 7:51 pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > 'WWJD? > I know! He would try to f.ck over an old man in crisis with a silly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > REPLY: Until you can > practice some discipline in your replies Piss Off Dave! ...i wont be replying to you again. BFD! As the beatles once sang: "You don't know how lucky you are boy! On Jun 24, 9:51?pm, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: Secondly, ?how is > showing up with a cashiers check , in full, 'a charade' ? Until you can > practice some discipline in your replies...i wont be replying to you > again. I am kinda confused over this. Why would you show up with a cashiers check for less money than the guy was asking? Had you seen it already? If not, wasn't that kinda "ballsy"? If you did see it, why didn't you settle on a price before you went to all the trouble to get a cashiers check? I had a guy show up to buy a boat off me. After he looked it over and test rode it, he handed me a little less of what I was asking in cash. I told him the price was firm and he INSISTED I should take his offer, I didn't. He later offered the full price. Since he was such an a.s, I refused to sell it to him at any price. He left pissed off. I sold the boat to the next looker. Hank <~~~Don't deal with a.sholes > I am kinda confused over this. Why would you show up with a cashiers > check for less money than the guy was asking? Had you seen it already? > If not, wasn't that kinda "ballsy"? If you did see it, why didn't you > settle on a price before you went to all the trouble to get a cashiers > check? > > Hank <~~~Don't deal with a.sholes Those last words describes dave to a "T" >> I am kinda confused over this. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Those last words describes dave to a "T" I don't know why in the hell you guys keep responding to this dickweed. He's nothing but a troll. He doesn't even own an RV, has no intentions of owing an RV and posts this same sort of crap in numerous other news groups. Just filter him and be done with him. SignatureFrank Tabor Ask your boss to reconsider -- It's so difficult to take "Go to hell" for an answer. 'I don't know why in the hell you guys keep responding to this dickweed. He's nothing but a troll. He doesn't even own an RV, has no intentions of owing an RV and posts this same sort of crap in numerous other news groups. Just filter him and be done with him. SignatureFrank Tabor' REPLY: Frank is upset with me cause i challenged his atheistic position in other NG's . For the record, i do have an RV...a Class B. CoachHouse , 1998, which im selling and have advertised it in this NG about a week ago. Further, i want to purchase a Class C. and have been looking at later models for the past few months waiting for a good buy for semi retirement this coming Nov. . Lastly, there is no need for the vitrol toward someone just because he disagrees with your position...especially when it comes to the most important issue of all : highly personal human beings coming from non personal Hydrogen Gas from an accidental big bang , or, highly personal human beings with an inherent moral conscience and capacity to know the obvious personal Theistic Creator who has demonstrated his awesome power thru the extreme fine tuning of a Universe/Solar System/Earth which didnt have to exist (so we could exist). It's Bullshit Time again - with your host; Dimwitted Dave in Lake Viler. Today we'll be going over the same old disproven crap that DILV loves to shove down people's throats in the hope that someone will respond and start up an argument going round and round in circles as directed by Dimwit. -Without knowing it they'll be doing "The Dance of The Dickwadd", and Dimwit will have a little more of the human contact he so badly craves. Come be a contestant on Bullshit Time. : it's easy to apply; just reply to the latest religious trolling from Dimwit and you'll be live on the show before you know it. Dimwit will make a feeble attempt to lead you in his merry dance and get you to tie yourself in knots. If, unlikr Dimwit, you know what you're on about then you'll get he opportunity to tie Dimwit in knots. : But bewarned; it's very difficult to corner Dimwit. : If he gets backed near an unescapable corner he'll either change the subject or quit replying. - It's heads he wins, tails you lose all the way in this excuse for intellectual challenge by the No1-intellectually-challenged-imbesile - "Dave in The Lake of Fire and Sulpher" Viler. Will YOU be able to take on the slyest slimiest vilest Christotaliban bullshitter troll on all of usenet and beat him hands down? It's been accomplished before. Roll up roll up Ladies and gentlemen; come try your luck on the sensational DILV show; Bullshit Time. Alternatively and the better option. : Killfile the halfwit. Sharron Announces : 'It's Bullshit Time again' - (herewith) : 1. Tries to pretend that very personal innate qualities of a human being such as abstract thoughts, moral oughtness, ethical systems, compassion, empathy, et al ... came from NON personal material such as Hydrogen Gas 2. Tries to pretend that the vast array of specified complexity such as Human DNA can come about from the atmosphere when even its founder, atheist Dr. Francis Crick , boldly declared that it is IMPOSSIBLE for DNA to have arrived by accident from the atmosphere. 3. Tries to pretend that the scientifically confirmed 133 (so far discovered) parameters of our Solar System which are all needed simultaneously / working in conjunction with one another , so earth can be here so we can live on it....came about thru 'natural , accidental ,non intelligent' sources purely by chance 4. Tries to pretend that there are no absolute moral laws which he has to live by ... even though he expects and demands others treat himself with absolute morality (and all the time) ? ..and many other examples . For a thorough examination of the tremendous FAITH an atheist must have, get the book 'I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman Geisler. But...only if youre willing to want the truth -- even if it hurts the ego. On Jun 26, 10:28 am, EternityAwa...@webtv.net (Are you ready for Eternity) wrote: Ummmm. Close webtv storefull numbers, same time zone, and same stupid assed religious arguments Dimwited dave always uses, so..................If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it a f.cking duck On Jun 26, 10:28 am, EternityAwa...@webtv.net (Are you ready for Eternity) wrote: When are you going to respond your lies about George Washington? From: DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:24:59 -0500 I guess George Washingtons prophecy was correct when he said in his inaugural speech : ' If American ever decides to turn its back on God, she will come to ruin ' . When you toss aside necessary Foundations for morality and honor to the Creator...then it becomes a springboard to anarchy and the general populus doing what is 'right' in their own minds George Washingtons prediction is coming true right before our eyes :" If America ever turns its back on the Divine Creator, it shall come to ruin" (his Inagural Speech as first president). Evidently Dimwitted Dave's knowledge of history is as lacking as his knowledge of science, chemistry, physics or biology, as GW's inuagural speech doesn't include either quoted sentence. http://www.classbrain.com/artteenst/publish/article_38.shtml > Sharron Announces : 'It's Bullshit Time again' - (herewith) : Er...I take it that you're relating the points below to me Dave in Lake Villa? (AKA "Are You Ready for More Bullshit?") > 1. Tries to pretend That's your forte'. > that very personal innate qualities of a human > being such as abstract thoughts, moral oughtness, ethical systems, > compassion, empathy, et al ... came from NON personal material such > as Hydrogen Gas If you think of things in terms of reality combined with the light of the forefront of scientific discovery; you'll be able to relate that all things - that's all matter - and anti-matter, all energy - even thought energy, everything concievable in this universe, are all made of the same very basic stuff in different format. : That means that hydrogen and humans are at base picoscopic level made of exactly the same basic configurable stuff that the screen you're reading this on, the pixels on it, the electron beam creating the pixels, even your current thoughts right now as you read, are made of. Why is it so unbelievable to you that humans couldn't come from hydrogen gas? You say humans didn't come from monkeys; yet you're the most apelike individual I've ever known, although clearly a different and backwards evolutionary strain. > 2. Tries to pretend that the vast array of specified complexity such > as Human DNA can come about from the atmosphere when even its founder, > atheist Dr. Francis Crick , boldly declared that it is IMPOSSIBLE for > DNA to have arrived by accident from the atmosphere. But what about you? Whether Dr Francis Crick actually said that or not, (We can't take your word for it as we know you're a compulsive liar.) what if nobody; not even him, had said that? What would YOU believe if you didn't have anyone to make up your tiny mind for you? > 3. Tries to pretend that the scientifically confirmed 133 (so far > discovered) parameters of our Solar System which are all needed > simultaneously / working in conjunction with one another , so earth > can be here so we can live on it....came about thru 'natural , > accidental ,non intelligent' sources purely by chance I told you it was bullshit time. - Don't try to pull that load of bollocks on people. : Not everybody is scientifically ignorant; many people can tell you that your so-called "133 parameters" are just a collection of big words designed to impress imbesiles. (Which is why they impressed you.) > 4. Tries to pretend that there are no absolute moral >laws which he... Oh sorry; I thought you were applying this to me personally. Obviously not. > has > to live by ... even though he expects and demands others treat himself > with absolute morality (and all the time) ? Who are you referring to here? The subject is obviously male; but you give no indication who. > ..and many other examples . And now the spam. : > For a thorough examination of the > tremendous FAITH an atheist must have, get the book 'I Dont Have > Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman Geisler. But...only if > youre willing to want the truth -- even if it hurts the ego. Same old bullshit. 'If you think of things in terms of reality combined with the light of the forefront of scientific discovery; you'll be able to relate that all things - that's all matter - and anti-matter, all energy - even thought energy, everything concievable in this universe, are all made of the same very basic stuff in different format. : That means that hydrogen and humans are at base picoscopic level made of exactly the same basic configurable stuff that the screen you're reading this on, the pixels on it, the electron beam creating the pixels, even your current thoughts right now as you read, are made of. Why is it so unbelievable to you that humans couldn't come from hydrogen gas?' REPLY: 'Sharron Announces : 'It's Bullshit Time again' - (herewith) . '2. Tries to pretend that the vast array of specified complexity such as Human DNA can come about from the atmosphere when even its founder, atheist Dr. Francis Crick , boldly declared that it is IMPOSSIBLE for DNA to have arrived by accident from the atmosphere. >But what about you? Whether Dr Francis Crick actually said that or not, (We can't take your word for it as we know you're a compulsive liar.) what if nobody; not even him, had said that? What would YOU believe if you didn't have anyone to make up your tiny mind for you?< REPLY: He said it and its documented ; I read it and youre not truly interested in any case . Even this highly acclaimed Atheist Founder has some honesty to him. '3. Tries to pretend that the scientifically confirmed 133 (so far discovered) parameters of our Solar System which are all needed simultaneously / working in conjunction with one another , so earth can be here so we can live on it....came about thru 'natural , accidental ,non intelligent' sources purely by chance. I told you it was bullshit time. - Don't try to pull that load of bollocks on people. : Not everybody is scientifically ignorant; many people can tell you that your so-called "133 parameters" are just a collection of big words designed to impress imbesiles. (Which is why they impressed you.) REPLY: Just do a google under : Anthropic Principle , Fine Tuning of the Universe, and/or go to www.reasons.org under the Design Evidences page. (and no...its not only 'Fundie Scientists' that collaborate on these 133 very narrowly razor edge parameters all needed simultaneously for earth to exist and for us to live on it). They impress me because no amount of 'natural causes' , willy nilly chance, or Pagan fiction like the 'Universes personality' or 'Forcefield' B.S. ,et al....allowed these parameters to come into existence ex-nihilo then work together in unison to accomplish a very specific purpose / end result. '4. Tries to pretend that there are no absolute moral >laws which he... >Oh sorry; I thought you were applying this to me personally. Obviously not. has to live by ... even though he expects and demands others treat himself with absolute morality (and all the time) ? Who are you referring to here? The subject is obviously male; but you give no indication who.< REPLY: ALL well meaning Atheists and Pagans who must protect thier chosen lifestyle by believing the incredulous like 206 bone human beings with brain capacity exceeding the Library of Congress....coming upward from nothing but Hydrogen Gas (a direct contradiction to the established Law of Entropy). You should be ashamed of yourself for forcing yourself to be dupped so you can life as you darn well please. Thats the MO of a reprobate mind Sharron. ESCAPE from that bondage. 'For a thorough examination of the tremendous FAITH an atheist must have, get the book 'I Dont Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' by Dr. Norman Geisler. But...only if youre willing to want the truth -- even if it hurts the ego. >Same old bullshit.< REPLY: Your apriori philisophical bias toward Creationism is shining thru ; you simply MUST NOT consider any other worldview except Atheism/Paganism for it would be a thorn in your lifestyle choices . By the way...do you still believe to have never sinned in your life as youve boldly proclaimed in the past ? That is, youve never lied, cheated, stole, been deceptive, stalked anyone on the web for the purpose of being malicious, never made up stories , never have used Gods name in vain, never committed sexual immorality (even with another woman )??? Is this correct Miss ??? > 'If you think of things in terms of reality combined with the light of > the forefront of scientific discovery; you'll be able to relate that [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Congress....coming upward from nothing but Hydrogen Gas (a direct > contradiction to the established Law of Entropy). *Not all pagans are Evolutionists; I just happens that I am. You should be > ashamed of yourself for forcing yourself to be dupped so you can life > as you darn well please. *I live as I "darn well please." anyway. I don't need to force anything; that's your attempt at a forte', not mine. > Thats the MO of a reprobate mind Sharron. > ESCAPE from that bondage. *I hear you're into bondage. : Dave's dungeon is your domain. > 'For a thorough examination of the > tremendous FAITH an atheist must have, get the book 'I Dont Have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > thru ; you simply MUST NOT consider any other worldview except > Atheism/Paganism for it would be a thorn in your lifestyle choices . I'm not an Atheist. I'm a Pagan BECAUSE I considered many different beliefs. > By the way...do you still believe to have never sinned in your life as > youve boldly proclaimed in the past ? That is, youve never lied, > cheated, stole, been deceptive, stalked anyone on the web for the > purpose of being malicious, never made up stories , never have used > Gods name in vain, never committed sexual immorality (even with > another woman )??? Is this correct Miss ??? "Sin" is deliberate wrongdoing for the purpose of going against what you personally believe to be "right". I have never deliberately done this to my knowledge; therefore I have not sinned. Considering the fact that we have differing conceptions of "sin", based upon differing values; reopening this debate is futile, as you well know. I'm not going there. End of discussion. 'That means that hydrogen and humans are at base picoscopic level made of exactly the same basic configurable stuff that the screen you're reading this on, the pixels on it, the electron beam creating the pixels, even your current thoughts right now as you read, are made of.' REPLY: Given enough TIME ,MATTER, and IMAGINATION ... anything is possible . Even Human Beings coming from Pond Scum that arrived via DEAD nonliving chemicals ! A 'real reality' for the must-reject personal Creator advocate. If i told you that a green jellybean down here on earth arrived from Hydrogen Gas , youd laugh at me as you stalked me around the internet Sharron ; yet you try in vain to blow off your existence to Hydrogen Gas that occured accidentally from a massive explosion ??!! Stop reading those Pagan books of myth and learn what real science is saying -- not the kind that masquerades as science so one can live as he/she wishes without moral restraint. On Jun 28, 7:59 am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: > REPLY: If i told you that a green jellybean down > here on earth arrived from Hydrogen Gas , youd laugh at me We laugh at EVERYTHING you say, Dumbwit Dumbfuck! >I had a guy show up to buy a boat off me. After he looked it over and >test rode it, he handed me a little less of what I was asking in cash. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Hank <~~~Don't deal with a.sholes I did the same. I had a'95Wrangler, had some problem that I disclosed. The sap looked it over, drove, then said 'considering....' exactly what I disclosed. he offered half. I told him my price reflected the shrtcomings, and he still really lowballed me. I said to screw. Next guy offered price <$100, I sold it. That first jackass drove back later in the afternoon, gonna pay what I want. LOL. should have seen his face, best $100 I spent in a long time. On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:43:56 -0700, Hustlin' Hank <ninebal310@aol.com> wrote: >I had a guy show up to buy a boat off me. After he looked it over and >test rode it, he handed me a little less of what I was asking in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >the >boat to the next looker. I would have sold it to him at a higher price and told him that was the cost of arrogance. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >> <some very good advice> I have a very close friend who, last year, was in Quartzite during the annual push by dealers to unload their past-date models. Rather than take the company's offer, he called me and asked for some research that he was unable to complete down there in desert-land. The original asking price from the dealer was $149,000. Not a bad price for a Monaco product with a 300hp Cummins engine and Allison transmission. In real time, I was able to compare my friend's latest conversations with the dealer's representative (something like a car salesman, if you understand what I mean) with online prices of recently completed transactions for basically the same product line and model. We kept in constant touch until the dealer's rep (can you say "salesman"?) finally walked away from the deal. Funny thing is, he was back within eight hours, even more eager to sell Without wishing to flog a dead horse, I need to say that the final, agreed-upon price, was $109,000. He could also have gotten a $7000 trade-in allowance for his 1989 Rockwood 30' motorhome with about 100K miles on it. In the end, he decided to keep the (poorly built, in my opinion) Rockwood and ultimately sell it to his elder son. So, fundamentally, the asking price was reduced by better than 30%! One of his acts in attaining this goal was to walk away from the deal. Do not be intimidated by these clowns! Do not allow the adage "a fool and his money are soon parted" apply to you. If you are willing to walk away ("dismissed without prejudice" in court terms), then you can come back later, try to score, but at least recognize that if the dealership says "no," then move on to another dealer, where you may well be more lucky. Ken CASH works good. SignatureSteve Barker > Once youve decided on which RV you want to buy, have you ever gone to > the Seller (whether private or a Dealer) , with a Cashiers Check already [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Any thoughts ? Thanks. Are there any drawbacks to be considered ? On Jun 25, 10:46 am, DaveInLakeVi...@webtv.net (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote: <SNIP> > Are there any drawbacks to be considered ? The only drawbacks DILV has ever considered is the constant drawing back and forth of his foreskin as he gazes at sheep and his nude Virgin Mary dolly.. With the new British Premier ; Prime Minister Brown in office at long last, DILV has started to feel more comfortable in the UK and has decided to take up Wimbledon. If he gets the chance he'll be on centre court attempting to entertain the crowds with his own unique rendition of "Backhand, forehand, backhand, forehand, juice." as Thomas the Tank Engine chugs away merrily. | Are there any drawbacks to be considered ? In some instance a wire transfer can be reversed. When we used WT heavily we had a special account that would accept the money and the bank would automatically transfer the funds (one direction) into a second account. Many time (especially on over seas deals) the buyer/sender would try to reverse the transfer after they received notice that the shipper had the goods. : | Are there any drawbacks to be considered ? : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : reverse the transfer after they received notice that the shipper had the : goods. If anyone is banking with a bank that will reverse a legitimate wire transfer out of their account, they need to find a new bank. 'In some instance a wire transfer can be reversed. When we used WT heavily we had a special account that would accept the money and the bank would automatically transfer the funds (one direction) into a second account. Many time (especially on over seas deals) the buyer/sender would try to reverse the transfer after they received notice that the shipper had the goods.' REPLY: So then, theres no guarantee even with a WT (?). Question : Can a Buyer pick up the phone and issue a WT into a Sellers Bank Account immediately, or, does he have to go to his bank in person to do it ? How long does the Bank take to do a WT once initiated ? Thanks. : 'In some instance a wire transfer can be reversed. : When we used WT heavily we had a special account that would accept the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : : REPLY: So then, theres no guarantee even with a WT (?). There are no guarantees in life, but after cash in hand, wire transfer is the safest. Question : : Can a Buyer pick up the phone and issue a WT into a Sellers Bank Account : immediately, or, does he have to go to his bank in person to do it ? Depending on your bank, yes. I can with mine after answering security questions. : How long does the Bank take to do a WT once initiated ? Depends. They don't actually go direct from bank to bank. They are routed through the Federal Reserve. I just received one a couple of days ago that took less than 1 hour from the time it was sent from Indiana until it showed up in my account in Idaho. Thanks for the info Bob. |
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