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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / August 2007Roadmaster Tow Bar Installation Problem
If you are planing to buy Roadmaster towing hardware, read this and profit thereby. If you are planning to buy Roadmaster brackets for an existing vehicle, locate another vehicle that is so equipped and examine it before committing to the purchase. If you can not locate a vehicle so equipped and if you do not have a lot of spare time to devote to the issue, proceed only with the greatest of caution. The Story: Recently, we had planned to equip our 1999 Neon to Toad capable. I have owned a Roadmaster towbar for a while. This would be at least its third vehicle. I ordered a set of brackets (they call braces) through a hitch parts agent. The arrived in due course. When I went to install them, the supplied parts could not be installed to make the required spacing of the front flanges. ( These flanges are where the tow bar mounts. Roadmaster uses a lateral brace as part of the tow bar and not the base plate like Blue Ox.) I could not figure out how to make them go in at the correct spacing without serious modification of both the supplied brackets and the vehicle. I contacted Roadmaster. In fact, I wrote a lengthy description of the situation as I saw it and included a collection of images to clarify any questions. A person from Roadmaster sent me a note confirming that the ordered parts were the correct part for the vehicle. (Said person did not include advice on how to make them fit correctly.) Things went down hill from there. (I have to believe that nobody had looked at the writeup or the pictures.) Communication with Roadmaster was distinctly poor from the start and finally disappeared (I think). As I could not get anybody to confirm that they were or were not interested in addressing the issue, I contacted the sales agent and got authorization to return the brackets for credit. (At this time, I will consider myself lucky if I get out of this for only the cost of the shop time and shipping 20# both ways from the other end of the country.) After many decades as an engineer working with and for automotive aftermarket suppliers, I fully understand all the difficulties. The single thing that disappoints me most in this situation is the lack of effort on their part to discover the real issues involved. > If you are planing to buy Roadmaster towing hardware, read this and > profit thereby. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The Story: <snip> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Matt, I own a Roadmaster Falcon 5250 Tow Bar. I have had it for about 8 years or more. I used it to pull a '98 Chevy Cavalier for most of those yeras. The "Base PlateBrackets" for that Cavalier had that great big heavy as all hell lateral cross piece that mounted to the frame brackets Roadmaster also supplied in that kit. I hated that ugly sucker hanging out there on the front of the toad. I would take it off when not towing on a trip. But it was a hassle to take on and off also. Lousy design in my opinion. Now we have a 2006 Chevy HHR that we tow. I wanted a better design but still wanted to use the Roadmaster Falcon so I would not have that expense again. A Blue Ox Dealer (online) supplied me with what I needed. A very nice designed set of base plate brackets that are so well hidden you don't see them. NO DUMB CLUMSY BIG BAR HANGING OUT FRONT. Everything is well hidden behind the front bumper fascia. Two simple twist and lock pins go into the base plate recievers when it's time to tow. And then....Blue Ox also makes a set of adapters to go on to the Roadmaster tow bar ends that then fit right up to the Blue Ox pins. It's a much better setup and has MUCH less weight to it. A good design. I am very happy with it and also the ease of the installation that I did myself. I don't know if they make something similar for your Neon but it's worth a look on their website. Good luck with solving that problem. Jan Eric Orme > A Blue Ox Dealer (online) supplied me with what I needed. > A very nice designed set of base plate brackets that are so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pins go into the base plate recievers when it's time to > tow. I learned after the fact that I could have gone with a Blue Ox bracket and still used a RoadMaster tow bar. Hind site is 20/20. Blue Ox makes much better brackets at least as far as keeping them hidden and not interfearing with existing hardware. Ben > I learned after the fact that I could have gone with a Blue Ox bracket > and still used a RoadMaster tow bar. Hind site is 20/20. Blue Ox makes > much better brackets at least as far as keeping them hidden and not > interfearing with existing hardware. > > Ben ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Agree on that point, Ben. There is a big difference. Matt, Here is some more information. Blue Ox #BX 1923 Base Plate Bracket for 1995-1999 1st Generation Neon http://tinyurl.com/37ro54 Click on the model number for link to installtion instructions. Read all the notes on both pages. Blue Ox Home page is here: http://www.blueox.us/ The adapter I used for my Roadmaster Falcon to fit up to Blue Ox is the BX88152 shown at this link: http://www.blueox.us/Accessories/adapters.htm You should talk to Blue Ox to make sure that this adapter will work for your application, the Blue Ox bracket and your tow bar. But Matt.....I have another question. Are you using a Remco Kit to tow that Neon? The Neon has a problem towing 4 down unless you have front axle disconnects or a lube pump kit for the transmission. Just a word of warning if you didn't already know that. Jan Eric Orme >> I learned after the fact that I could have gone with a Blue Ox bracket >> and still used a RoadMaster tow bar. Hind site is 20/20. Blue Ox makes [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Jan Eric Orme Thanks Jan, I did look at that and then noticed the note that the BX88152 will not work with this base plate. That means a new tow bar. Thanks for the thought, but I don't need a lube pump. This one is a 158hp 5 speed left over from the Neon Challenge Series. It is about as far from a motorhome as you can get and just amazing fun to drive. Matt Colie Have you checked out DEMCO http://www.demco-products.com/Pages/fitlist.html#dodge ? Their base plate aren't as fancy as Blue Ox, but they are better than Roadmaster and cheaper than Blue Ox. I actually prefer the design of their tow bars over Blue Ox (had the Demco on an SC2, have Blue Ox on the Vue) Steve >>> I learned after the fact that I could have gone with a Blue Ox bracket >>> and still used a RoadMaster tow bar. Hind site is 20/20. Blue Ox makes [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Matt Colie Steve, Thanks for the lead. I will keep the link. I may have new news any time now. My situation seems to have rattled someone in Roadmasters management. Matt Colie > Have you checked out DEMCO > http://www.demco-products.com/Pages/fitlist.html#dodge ? Their base plate [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> >> Matt Colie I've got to agree with you on the Demco. I have met with the inventer of that tow bar and seen demonstrations of it against both the Blue Ox and the Roadmaster. It is obviously the best design and will be the one I get when I next have to replace mine. It is designed with no slop that the others have, and have other unique features which I do not recall at this time. George >Have you checked out DEMCO >http://www.demco-products.com/Pages/fitlist.html#dodge ? Their base plate [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> Matt Colie  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com The bright green indicator to tell you when it's locked is what I really miss! Steve > I've got to agree with you on the Demco. I have met with the inventer > of that tow bar and seen demonstrations of it against both the Blue Ox [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >>> >>> Matt Colie > Thanks Jan, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matt Colie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Matt, I would still check with Blue Ox. I saw that note about the BX88152 also. But if you follow the adapter links there is also a model BX88151. I would ask them if that works or if they have an adapter that DOES work. About the Neon Challenge car. I also own one. My car is a 1996 ACR that ran in the old SSB Class out of Wisconsin. The original owner that I bought the car from in 2001 campaigned it out of Wisconsin. I brought it to California. Curremtly has only 9,000 miles on it. But.... they are all Track Miles.8^) It has a NRG short block bottom end. Still not real sure about that box survival however. I have modified my car to the point that it currently puts 207 WHP to the ground on the Chassis Dyno. Other mods include lots of weight loss. We run the car mostly at Laguna Seca and Thunderhill Raceway. Ist Gen Neons are a H00T to drive. 8^) Right now we have at minimum a blown headgasket. Will be pulling the ported race head soon. Jan >> Thanks Jan, >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jan Jan, Thanks, I am still investigating all my options. I guess you know why I want to keep the car - Huh? This one is the last of the series, Classified as a AlCR because the doors, trunk and hood and front fenders are aluminum (we were going to do a production car called a Neon Light, but the program got killed and I never found out why.) I only managed to get this one because I was able to force the building of a PLLG for program, set it it up with the RT trims and accessory package and then assign a VIN that looked stock (when you have access to the build control system, you have some options.) At 158, it is all I can do to drive on gravel, it will spin tires on a second gear throttle snap and can be real interesting on a bad surface. I can't imagine try to street the car at 207. The PT with turbo has no low end torque and it a bag heavier. I had plenty of access to more horsepower, but I had been a dyno lab supervisor and knew about what I could do before the reliability went down the tubes. So, I stopped at the 158 version. Yes it only runs on premium and if I dog it around town too long it with get bitchy at me until I take it out and run it. But, It Sure is neat. By the By- If you are at Leguna Seca and run into a track manager there by the name of Dave Kulhmann. Tell his wife (my sister) that Matt sends his best. They both used to race there, too. Dave was last at it, but I think he said that he sold his Porshe last year. Matt Colie > Jan, > Thanks, > I am still investigating all my options. > > I guess you know why I want to keep the car - Huh? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In spades, Matt. The little beasties can be giant killers. I have some small lettering on the side of both front fenders that says: 122 Cubic Inches. At our Open Track events I am out there with some V8s that have 3 times that of my little 2,0 liter. Recently one of them approached a friend and asked, "Does that thing really only have 122"? <VBG> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This one is the last of the series, Classified as a AlCR because the > doors, trunk and hood and front fenders are aluminum (we were going to [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Matt Colie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Next time at Laguna I will ask around. So....your car is a lightened prototype huh? This is good. My ACR is a DOHC Coupe. We have done a lot to take weight out. It has a cage so that big heavy crossbar on the bottom floorboards is gone. The hood is aftermarket skin only carbon fiber lift off held down with 5 pins (too much flap with 4). The trunk lid is skin only FRP lift off with pins. All the hinges and bracket for those are gone. Saved about 60#. The interior is mostly gutted. Door glass is gone and the interior of the doors is carved out. The power steering pump and all the brackets are gone. The lines are looped to the ACR quick ratio rack. This works fine on road course with no power steer. All the heater lines and gone. there is other stuff taken off. All in all we tokk around 4-500# off the car. ALL cars respond to less weight well. But these small displacement cars really wake up with less weight. There is more I can take out of it since it's a track only car. It just takes time. A guess on the weight is around 2000#. The wake up is just simply the power to weight ratio going to work. The power mods come from a race head. Crane #18 cams, adjustable cam gears, better lifters and rockers, long tube merge header, larger diameter exahust, no cat, big plenum box intake manifold with straight horizontal inlet, 60mm throttle body and suff like an aluminum flywheel. Oh...and an AFX Race ECU plus an Apexi air fuel controller. It also has an aftermarket Canton Race Pan plus a windahge tray. Larger capacity, and very nice gated compartments to control sump oil to the pickup at all times under cornering and braking. Koni Struts, solid front and rear motor mounts and very stiff side motor mounts. The wheels are lighter 15" Kosei K1s. Currently we are using Kumho V710 Race Tires. I use 2nd generation 2000+ rotors uo front. They are thicker. The 1st Gen rotors were cracking. It stops well. Less weight helps that also. Have had lots of fun with this car. Driving it and also preparing it. Sadly we have to pull the head now. For sure the headgasket is toast. Hopefully that is all it is. This head has been on for 4 years so we can't gripe too much. On the reliability side I have tried to keep it in the KISS theory mode. My compression ratio is about 10.5:1....nothing radical. I did not want a situation where I had to have something to pull/retard timing to avoid detonation. To be safe I use a higher octane unleaded. Right now around 96 octane. This is easy to do at the track because they have a 100 octane pump. I just blend in 92 and 100. Jan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Next time at Laguna I will ask around. > > So....your car is a lightened prototype huh? > This is good. My ACR is a DOHC Coupe. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jan, All the ACR are DOHC. All ACRs had the extra body roll stiffeners (sometimes called sway bars). ACRs were not supposed to be sold for street service and the certificate of origin stated so, but some did end up with plates. Largely because they were setup to sit 17mm lower and that didn't wash in some states. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > We have done a lot to take weight out. > It has a cage so that big heavy crossbar [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > All the heater lines and gone. there is other stuff > taken off. All in all we tokk around 4-500# off the car. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This car is almost 300# lighter than an RT, but even with a complete interior,AC and all the power stuff, it is almost 300# lighter than the normal. That is why I wanted to go with all the removable tow gear that I could. It's Fun and I don't want to ruin that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ALL cars respond to less weight well. But these > small displacement cars really wake up with less > weight. There is more I can take out of it since > it's a track only car. It just takes time. A guess > on the weight is around 2000#. The wake up is just > simply the power to weight ratio going to work. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I bet is you get it on scale, it's less than 2k#. Mine is not far off, but I can't find the build book just now and I don't actually remember. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The power mods come from a race head. Crane > #18 cams, adjustable cam gears, better lifters [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to control sump oil to the pickup at all times > under cornering and braking. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The engine parts of mine were all set up by lab rats at Auburn Hills and shipped to Mexico for assembly so it could be passed off as a production engine per the class rules. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Koni Struts, solid front and rear motor mounts > and very stiff side motor mounts. The wheels are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 1st Gen rotors were cracking. It stops well. > Less weight helps that also. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't know who's suspension parts they used, but at 140kmi they are still sound. The wheels are an alloy stock that was available by number and special upgrade for the RT. The all 4 rotors are still original, but I get real nervous when a pickup is tailgating (happens all the time) because I twice been pushed when I laid on the binders - both time they came to bear on the rear bumper structure - whew! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Have had lots of fun with this car. Driving it and > also preparing it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > because they have a 100 octane pump. I just blend > in 92 and 100. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This one has a knock sensor. It can to me with stickers all over that said PREMIUM FUEL REQUIRED. It has a knock sensor and can be run on regular - I was forced to do this once. Once was quite enough. It does not like it at all and doesn't care who knows. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jan Enjoy it as long as you can. I'm going to see if I can find out who makes the best head gasket for this motor these days. If I can, I will pass you a manufacturer and part numbers. Matt Colie > Jan, All the ACR are DOHC. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the 1st Generation Cars including 1999, this is not true for normal production cars. The Coupes are DOHC and the 4 door Sedans are SOHC. Here's a portion of the FAQ that talks about ACRs: http://faq.neons.org/faq/FAQ_OEM.html#ACR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > All ACRs had the extra > body roll stiffeners (sometimes called sway bars). > ACRs were not supposed to be sold for street service > and the certificate of origin stated so, but some did > end up with plates. Largely because they were setup > to sit 17mm lower and that didn't wash in some states. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well....yes, kind of. Actually the sway bars in the ACRs are an updated version that is stiffer than the regulat bars. They bar that I was takling about is a square tube brace that is in the floor well of the coupes and is covered by the carpet. It is a safety bar that gives the body more stiffness and protection. If you install a cage and are not held back by sanctioning rules many people (including me) take it out to get that weight out of the car. The roll cage makes the car much safer than that thing ever did. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > > Enjoy it as long as you can. I'm going to see if I can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Matt Colie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Back in the 90s Chrysler had a TSB on all the original Head Gaskets. They ended up replacing a ton of them. They then went to a Multi Layer Steel Gasket. Neons have always been somwhat prone to gasket failure even after that improvement. But, I think the best gasket is still the Factory Supplied Multi Layer Steel Gasket. On the race track we beat the hell out of the car. We rev it as high as 8000 RPMs at times and to 7500 all the time. It takes it's toll. many times I have seen oil temperature as high as 280 F. One of the reasons we use synthetic 20W-50 Race Oil. All that may be why this gasket has failed. We puuled the Race Head off today. It looks like it is probably a gasket failure. I am taking the head and the gasket to a professional machine shop we trust to have them look at it and also pressure test the head for any possible cracks etc. Also take off the cams and inspect the valves, guides and everything. Check the surface for flatness. If need be take a slight cut to true it. Give it a correct crosshatch finish for this type steel gasket. It seems that there is a correct finish for different types of gasket. We have an event at Sears Point on September 8 which just also happens to be my Birthday. Not sure if the car will make it. Time will tell. I hope so. I would like to drive on that day. Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don't need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like no one is watching." Jan, Big Snips > http://faq.neons.org/faq/FAQ_OEM.html#ACR Is a neat site. As a small part of the program (before we became DCX), the only ACR we had in the fleet were coupes. > Well....yes, kind of. Actually the sway bars in the ACRs > are an updated version that is stiffer than the regular bars. A number of company people drove my car and noted that fact. > They bar that I was takling about is a square tube brace > that is in the floor well of the coupes and is covered by > the carpet. It is a safety bar that gives the body more > stiffness and protection. I knew which bar you ment, I had actually moved to the crash lab and I knew that the cross car beam was put in to both help seat stiffness and crush in a side impact. I often though about putting a cage in this car, but it already has too little interior room. > Back in the 90s Chrysler had a TSB on all the original > Head Gaskets. They ended up replacing a ton of them. > They then went to a Multi Layer Steel Gasket. Yes, but MLS is not MLS, there are some better than others. (I got hired away from McCord Gasket by Chrysler.) The OE head gasket was indeed a POS (but is was 0.01$ cheaper than one that was a much better part) and it only barely scraped by the the validation testing we did. > Neons have always been somewhat prone to gasket > failure even after that improvement. But, I think the > best gasket is still the Factory Supplied Multi Layer > Steel Gasket. As said, I have the question out to friends to ask who makes the best part today. - Say tuned. > On the race track we beat the hell out of the car. > We rev it as high as 8000 RPMs at times and > to 7500 all the time. It takes it's toll. many times > I have seen oil temperature as high as 280 F. > One of the reasons we use synthetic 20W-50 > Race Oil. All that may be why this gasket has failed. No - The OE part fails because it does not stand up to thermal cycling. The head to block motion is more than it can take without damage. >Check the surface for flatness. If need be take a slight >cut to true it. Don't cut much. The head bolts will pull 0.005 flat. If more than that is cut, the cam bores will now be non-straight and cams will break or wipe cam bearings. - USE NEW BOLTS - but put the head down the first time with the old bolts at about 45#ft, then replace all the bolts one at a time to first step then do the settling as turn pass to reach final tension. Please chase the threads in the block and lightly oil the new fasteners. >Give it a correct crosshatch finish for this type steel >gasket. It seems that there is a correct finish for >different types of gasket. As I said a numerous presentations "We (meaning McCord at that time) have never identified a gasket failure caused by to surface finish that was fine." This was when someone was saying that "you need a little tooth the grab the gasket." An MLS uses a very thin coating to achieve the microseal with the surfaces. Any surface feature that crosses an embossment puts that seal at risk. This was actually true of composite gaskets as well, but they had more sense of humor. MLS do not like waviness in the surface finish at all. If you work the block and head with a very fine oilstone and you do not touch 80% of the surface in a couple of passes you may have less than ideal surface. > We have an event at Sears Point on September 8 > which just also happens to be my Birthday. Not > sure if the car will make it. Time will tell. I hope so. > I would like to drive on that day. And, I wish you luck. > Jan Eric Orme > "Work like you don't need the money, love like you > have never been hurt and dance like no one is watching." I hope some of this is a help. Matt Colie Dance as though no one is watching, Love as though you have never been hurt before, Sing as though no one can hear you, Live as though heaven is on earth. is credited to Alfred P Sousa, I don't have any reference past that, but I have had it on my wall since I found it in a museum store. > If you are planing to buy Roadmaster towing hardware, read this and > profit thereby. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > single thing that disappoints me most in this situation is the lack of > effort on their part to discover the real issues involved. Like you, I havn't been happy with my Roadmaster brackets or their willingness to help. It wasn't symmetrical and the installer cut off a huge amount of trim from the front grill that should have never been cut off. I finally threatened a lawsuit and that got me some relief but not completely. Life's to short to let the little annoyances like that take up too much time so I dropped it. I know a lot of people that are very happy with Roadmaster products but, personally, I'll never buy a Roadmaster bracket ever again. Ben > If you are planing to buy Roadmaster towing hardware, read this and > profit thereby. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > single thing that disappoints me most in this situation is the lack of > effort on their part to discover the real issues involved. I was very, very displeased with Roadmaster when I had a problem with the Brakemaster unit while on the road. Camping World installed it, however, they don't have a clue as to how it works technically. On my unit, the brake light suddenly stayed on all the time, which is an indication that the toad brake is on ..... but it definitely was not. As a matter of fact, the brake in the toad worked perfectly. I called Roadmaster and talked to someone in their customer service. She really couldn't help me, however she said she would get the guy who knows and, just in case, would take my number if we get disconnected. She must have known .... we were disconnected and NOBODY FROM BRAKEMASTER EVER CALLED BACK. There, I'm through shouting. As it seemed to be working correctly, we chanced using it. Later that evening we disconnected and used the toad. The cops stopped us saying that we had no brake lights. I got back to the campgrounds and when under the hood. The CW installation was done very poorly. The air cylinder was tie-wrapped to a metal brake line. The brake line has already worn a depression in the brass air fitting on the air cylinder from bouncing around. I wiggled around all the Brakemaster add-ons and the brake lights started working. When we re-attached the toad, everything, including the brake indicator light, worked. I went back to CW and told them of the poor installation. They re-installed the air cylinder and re-attached all the wiring. It seems to be working well now. This was the 2nd problem with the Brakemaster/installation. Initially, the toad battery kept running down if it was not used for 2 or 3 days. I went back to CW and they re-wired it. After that, the break-away feature on the Brakemaster didn't work at all. I went back to CW; they "fixed" it again, making the the same way it was initially .... running down the toad battery. With no schematic from CW or Brakemaster, I traced the wiring, figured how it works and solved the problem myself. It turns out there is a 12 volt solenoid activated which keeps air from storage cylinder from going to the brake piston. If the break-away pin is pulled, the solenoid releases and dumps the air from the cylinder to the brake piston, thus stopping the toad. So, you either have to have a switch to interrupt power to the solenoid when not towing, or you have to keep the break-away pin in the switch at all times. The later is what I now do. But, CW couldn't figure that out. When I crabbed about my Blue Ox, the steel bar suffered terribly in winter salt, they helped me with an equitable deal on an aluminum bar. I've been happy since. www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome then towing a Saturn links. Steve > I was very, very displeased with Roadmaster when I had a problem with > the Brakemaster unit while on the road. Camping World installed it, ... Art, It sounds like you had much more trouble with Camping World than I have had with Roadmaster. I think we both had about the same luck with Roadmaster technical support. The Fortunately, I would never get in the position you were in with CW. Long before the internet, I've made a point of getting the documentation for any thing of any interest and reading it. If I don't understand it, I don't buy it. It took a great deal of research to find out that the reason they and Blue Ox want to put in the break light relay is just to keep the toad brake light from interfering with the directional signals. There are ways to do this without that relay putting the break lights at risk. I was planning to install an Evenbrake after the tow brakets were in place. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want the CW people that did your job anywhere near that. I do, however, still have a hope that a Roadmaster Customer Service person that answered my note about why I am a disappointed customer after so many years may still get back to me with a meaningful response. If they get their act together, I would really like to report that as well. I have always like this towbar. Shame I may not be able to use it. Matt Colie > I was very, very displeased with Roadmaster when I had a problem with > the Brakemaster unit while on the road. Camping World installed it, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > pin in the switch at all times. The later is what I now do. But, CW > couldn't figure that out. Hi again Matt, Re:Adapter from Roadmaster Tow Bar to Blue Ox Base Plate Which Roadmaster Tow Bar do you have? Is it the Falcon? This morning I called Blue Ox Customer Service (888) 425-5382 Talked to a service tech about adapters for their Neon BX1923 Base Plate. IF....you have a Falcon Roadmaster, the BX88152 Adapter does NOT work. But....the BX88151 Adapter DOES work for adapting that Base Plate to a Roadmaster *FALCON* bar. Hope that helps. Not sure about Demco. Jan Eric Orme "Work like you don't need the money, love like you have never been hurt and dance like no one is watching." Jan, The tow bar is an Explorer. Very much like the newer version called a Stowmaster, but without the SS parts. It only mounts on the two Quick connectors, so it is real hard to adapt to other baseplates. I love it because when you unhook, you can fold the bar and leave it right there on the nose and even go park. It you want to go somewhere, snap the two clickpins and lift it off. Everything I saw at Blue Ox went to horizontal pins - can't do that. Thank for the search. Matt > Hi again Matt, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > "Work like you don't need the money, love like you > have never been hurt and dance like no one is watching." > Jan, > The tow bar is an Explorer. Very much like the newer version called a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > right there on the nose and even go park. It you want to go > somewhere, snap the two clickpins and lift it off. <snip> I like the Blue Ox because the tow bar stays on the motorhome. I don't have to take it off of the toad or find somewhere else to put it. And, when the toad is unhooked, you'd have to look hard at the toad to tell that it's setup for towing as the tow stuff is out of obvious sight. SignatureKevin W. Miller http://www.bluemoongemworks.com/rv/index.asp > I like the Blue Ox because the tow bar stays on the motorhome. I don't have > to take it off of the toad or find somewhere else to put it. And, when the > toad is unhooked, you'd have to look hard at the toad to tell that it's > setup for towing as the tow stuff is out of obvious sight. Kevin, I am not eager to change tow bars. The one that I have has served well. Adding another 500$us to the program makes it not happen this year. Everything in life is a compromise. This is much more an issue of getting the service and respect due a client than any individual suppliers. If we as clients do not rattle the bars when things are not right, then the suppliers will continue believing that everything is acceptable. I have had communication from a Roadmaster customer service person that is pursuing my issues. If I get reasonable result, I will write about that as well. Blue Ox does make nice stuff, but this is a little and weight sensitive car. Both Demco and Blue Ox base plates will add (their numbers) about 40# on the very front of the vehicle and that is without the tow bar mounted. The Roadmaster brackets should add about 9#. We are talking about a vehicle that is so weight critical that I don't need to look at the gage to know how much fuel in on board because I can tell be the way it handles. Driving in the campground with the bar on the nose is just no problem. I don't want the receiver connection. I want a 2" ball because I'm often doing the hook up alone. Getting the bar in the receiver without dragging the toad connections in the dirt can be a challenge I don't need. I've done that. The Blue Ox Acclaim (the one that goes on a 2" ball) is designed to possibly store on the base plate. But, juggling the tow bar to get the pins in was a problem. You have to remember to bring a newspaper to put the coupler on so it doesn't collect dirt in the grease. I did that with a friend's set up. When I took the front brackets out of the XJ, people often asked where I had hidden the tow dolly. Then I point out the two 1" receivers in the shadows. With the Jeeps, I could drop (literally) the bar on the bumper brackets, put in two click pins, get about hand grenade close and and drop the coupler on the ball. Then I set the Jeep for towing and pull ahead 5'. If I bring the light cable with me when I come back to check the bar locks, I don't have to look at it again until I want to. Matt Colie > Art, > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >> pin in the switch at all times. The later is what I now do. But, CW >> couldn't figure that out. Luckily, the braking system is not rocket science and is pretty easy to trace out. And, yes, the only complaint against Brakemaster is their apparent bad customer service. If I ever did what they did to a customer, I would have been fired rather quickly. CW finally got the installation right, however, I still don't think they really know why my battery was going down. And, after figuring it out for myself, I talked to them to tell them why I was having problems .... they didn't seem to care or even want to know! > > Art, > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > they > didn't seem to care or even want to know ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WOW! Hey Art, don't ya just love the customer service attitude of, "go away boy, ya bother me?" If companies like CW and Roadmaster had half a brain about REAL Customer Service, they would do twice as much business. Other companies truly deserve our business. I have talked to Remco and Blue Ox Customer Service on the phone. The attitude just shines right thru. The Blue Ox Base Plate I have is well designed and the install instuctions were top notch. Jan Eric Orme >>> Art, >>> It sounds like you had much more trouble with Camping World than I have [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > > Jan Eric Orme Actually, CW always responded and helped as much as they could. However, they obviously didn't know the product very well. Roadmaster just never bothered. |
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