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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / September 2007How to dry camp and heep refrigerator cold.
What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas pilot would be started and the fridge would stay cold as long as you had propane. I do not want to run a generator because it is an irritation to fellow campers. Is there any way to hook up a separate battery to run the fridge by itself. Even if we use solar power how would I hook up to solar power to only run the fridge by itself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. -- > What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day > refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas pilot would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Even if we use solar power how would I hook up to solar power to only run > the fridge by itself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I wouldn't think the power requirements would be that bad to just keep the controls live. If you're dry camping a lot you should already have sufficient battery power to last for several days especially if the furnace isn't required. I know what you mean though, it's too bad the old style furnaces and refrigerators aren't still available. All you needed was propane. Hugh >> What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day >> refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > refrigerators aren't still available. All you needed was propane. > Hugh You need propane like you need a hemorrhoid flare up. Both are a pain in the a.s but propane will do worse than pain. Unlike even an advanced case of hemorrhoids, propane can explode and kill you. But, if you insist on living (and possibly dying) with the very real propane danger please note that the 12VDC power requirements of a propane fridge are minimal. A fifty watt panel and a dedicated 12V battery should provide adequate power 24/7. All you really need is power to the thermostat circuit. That bulb that lights up when the door is open is not really necessary. Unscrew it so it doesn't light and use a flashlight if you must have a midnight snack or leave it in but minimize the duration of open doors which also cause increased propane usage. Harry Harris  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day > refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would I hook up to solar power to only run the fridge by itself. Any > suggestions would be appreciated. True, it takes 12 volt power to turn on the gas valve, but that's not much power draw. To be dry camping, my bet is you are not managing power uses that REALLY draw the 12 volt batteries down. Do you only turn on one 12 volt light at night? Do you refrain from using an inverter to run TV, toaster, hair dryer, etc? Do you keep the furnace turned off? Do you keep the radio and stereo turned off. You should get the idea from this starting list. Many people want to dry camp without giving up all those items that require electric power, and it just doesn't work that way. Ten minutes a day running the generator would supply power for the refrigetator and water heater IF you stop the other power drains. All that said, you can install a solar panel, a voltage regulator, a small battery and the wires from the battery to the 12 volt connectors on the refrigerator and that would solve that problem, but what about all the other electrical gadgets you are using that is what is really drawing the batteries down. You do have more that 1 battery, right??? Tom J > What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day > refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas pilot would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Even if we use solar power how would I hook up to solar power to only run > the fridge by itself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The frig uses very little 12V power, maybe .2-.3A. If you want to add a solar panel wire it in as normal and let it replace what power it can for any used. Personally I wouldn't give the frig any thought on how much 12V power it is using. Other things like water pump and lights will use a lot more power than the frig. Mickey >> What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day >> refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. > The frig uses very little 12V power, maybe .2-.3A. I'm unclear on this. I have only an older 3-way refrigerator. 12v support is for on the road, only. What is the requirement for 12v on newer ones? Is there a safety interlock on the gas valve? SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >>> What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day >>> refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > support is for on the road, only. What is the requirement for 12v on > newer ones? Is there a safety interlock on the gas valve? The temperature controls, burner ignition controls, little light bulb inside, etc. are all running off of 12V power via the circuit board. In the 3 way model, you are substituting 12V power for the propane or AC power that operates the cooling mechanism. Even in AC mode, there is 12V power going to the circuits. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> The frig uses very little 12V power, maybe .2-.3A. > > I'm unclear on this. I have only an older 3-way refrigerator. 12v > support is for on the road, only. What is the requirement for 12v on > newer ones? Is there a safety interlock on the gas valve? All current RV refrigerators, including those as old as yours, require 12 volt to operate all controls, a relay to turn on and off the 110V electric heat for cooling and the LP gas valve for heat for cooling. I had 1 of those 3 way with 12 volt heating, besides controlling the relays & valves, but had that section disconnected before I took delivery. I do too much dry camping to have such an energy hog. As far as I know, your type has not been manufactured in several years because of the current draw problem. Tom J > As far as I know, your type has not been manufactured in several > years because of the current draw problem. I know they cannot be used for dry camping because it kills the battery, but were intended to be used only when connected to a tow vehicle, in lieu of propane. (I am not trying to revive the argument about whether it's safe to use LP while driving.) No power source is required to operate mine on LP. I set it up to cool off overnight before camping, using the LP flame. There is neither 12v battery nor AC power connected to the camper when I do that. I normally don't dry camp (wife and kids are intolerant) but run the refrigerator in AC mode. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >>As far as I know, your type has not been manufactured in several >>years because of the current draw problem. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I normally don't dry camp (wife and kids are intolerant) but run the > refrigerator in AC mode. That must be a pretty old fridge. The one we had in our '84 Sunline 5th wheel had a Dometic lp/ac fridge that didn't need 12v. It had a pilot light that was lit from inside via peizo lighter and a piece of Lucite? that showed blue when the pilot was lit. Our '88 Holiday Rambler had the modern type with a control board and electronic ignition. Hugh >That must be a pretty old fridge. The one we had in our '84 Sunline 5th >wheel had a Dometic lp/ac fridge that didn't need 12v. It had a pilot >light that was lit from inside via peizo lighter and a piece of Lucite? >that showed blue when the pilot was lit. Our '88 Holiday Rambler had the >modern type with a control board and electronic ignition. The older one sounds like the 3-way Dometic RM2310 in our '95 Class B. It does NOT need or use 12v when operating on 110v or propane. The propane is lighted manually via a pushbutton piezoelectric lighter (on the control panel at the bottom of the refrigerator), and there's a tiny lucite window beside the button to see the actual flame so you can tell when it's burning. The system works great. The only maintenance of any kind that's been performed on this refrigerator (at least since we bought it in 12/98) is to wire-brush the crud off the flame sensor, probably four times over the years. Nothing else, at all. But lately it's getting a bit harder to light -- although once it gets lit it stays on until I turn it off, however long that is -- so I'm thinking I may need to clean the orifice. I get so tired of having to do so much maintenance <g>.... GB in NC >>That must be a pretty old fridge. The one we had in our '84 Sunline 5th >>wheel had a Dometic lp/ac fridge that didn't need 12v. It had a pilot [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > GB in NC Yup, that sounds similar to the one we had. Ours didn't have the 12v though. Knob on the front turned one way for ac and the tuther for gas. Hugh >Yup, that sounds similar to the one we had. Ours didn't have the 12v >though. Knob on the front turned one way for ac and the tuther for gas. Ours has three on positions with two "off" positions interspersed between them. My wife is the one who most often switches it from one mode to another, for logistical reasons. She doesn't want or need to understand how the various RV systems work, just *that* they work and how to *make* them work, so she remembers them this way: With the switch pointed to the rear of the van, it's on "house current" -- because toward the rear is where we plug in the shore power cord and also where the generator is. The switch straight up means gas -- because gas burns and flames point up. And pointed toward the front of the van is 12v -- because we use that mode only when we're driving ("moving forward"). She calls that "switching the refrigerator to forward." Hey, whatever works <g>. GB in NC > Yup, that sounds similar to the one we had. Ours didn't have the 12v > though. Knob on the front turned one way for ac and the tuther for > gas. Hugh The one the original post was about is a 3 way - 12volt, 110volt, lp gas. These all had to have a 12 volt power applied to the curcuit board before they would work. If the rig was hooked to 110, that's what it operated on. If no 110 and no 12 volt being supplied from the engine/tow vehicle, it switched to propane, and only when under way with the alternator furnishing 13+ volts did the propane turn off and the 12 volt heater come on. If it actually works differently from that, I'd like to know the make and model number, so I'll be better informed!! ;-) Tom J > Yup, that sounds similar to the one we had. Ours didn't have the 12v > though. Knob on the front turned one way for ac and the tuther for > gas. It's in a 2000 Coleman Mesa. I don't recall the manufacturer. Doesn't need AC or DC at all to work on propane. Others are mistaken when they think I'm mistaken. I know when the battery's not connected. Since I have to lug it out of the garage before putting it on the tongue of the camper and connecting it, it's something I'm very aware of doing or not doing. Unless there's some pulsating magnetic wave generating electricity as it passes through the metal frame of my trailer, there is no electricity of any source connected to my trailer when I light the pilot light. Mine is lit by a piezo crystal, with the flame viewed through a small port from the outside. You have to move a little metal door to see the flame through the port. There is no other viewer. It's easier for me to simply put a gas match through the hole to light it, because that heats and opens the thermocouple faster than waiting for the dinky little refrigerator flame. No, I don't set the match on high. My original reason for asking about this is because I wanted to clarify the need for 12v on some RV refrigerators when running on propane. Mine simply doesn't work that way. SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >> Yup, that sounds similar to the one we had. Ours didn't have the >> 12v [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Doesn't > need AC or DC at all to work on propane. That explains it!! I've never had direct contact with those smaller 3 ways from Italy like were used in some pop-ups. Tom J >>> As far as I know, your type has not been manufactured in several >>> years because of the current draw problem. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that showed blue when the pilot was lit. Our '88 Holiday Rambler had the > modern type with a control board and electronic ignition. Our 75 Minnie Winnie required a pilot light to be lit, but if we forgot to switch it from gas to AC when hooked to shore power, it ran down the battery. I distinctly remembering DH having to call AAA to jump start the motorhome. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life >> As far as I know, your type has not been manufactured in several >> years because of the current draw problem. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > vehicle, in lieu of propane. (I am not trying to revive the argument > about whether it's safe to use LP while driving.) My refrigerator will stay frozen in the freezer section and below 45 degrees in the refrigerator section far as long as 14 hours (the longest ferry trip we ever took) AS LONG AS THE DOORS ARE NOT OPENED, so there is no argument from me about not operating with propane when on the road!! > No power source is required to operate mine on LP. I set it up to > cool > off overnight before camping, using the LP flame. There is neither > 12v > battery nor AC power connected to the camper when I do that. You are misinformed, or not aware of all your electrical options. You most likely have 12 volt batteries in your rig. You do have to have a 12 volt power source by some means for the refrigerator to start cooling. The propane valve is electrically operated. Tom J >> No power source is required to operate mine on LP. I set it up to >> cool >> off overnight before camping, using the LP flame. There is neither >> 12v >> battery nor AC power connected to the camper when I do that. >You are misinformed, or not aware of all your electrical options. You >most likely have 12 volt batteries in your rig. You do have to have a >12 volt power source by some means for the refrigerator to start >cooling. The propane valve is electrically operated. Unless you're talking about a specific model of refrigerator, you are mistaken. See my reply to Hugh in this thread. GB in NC > No power source is required to operate mine on LP. I set it up to cool > off overnight before camping, using the LP flame. There is neither 12v > battery nor AC power connected to the camper when I do that. My Dometic cheapie (6-7 cu ft, cir 2000) two-way has a "limp home" mode whereby it will cool using LP without any electronics working. This is my recollection and interpretation of the installation/operating manual. I have never tried it on LP with NO power to the rig. I may just do that to see if it works as I recall its being advertised. > I normally don't dry camp (wife and kids are intolerant) but run the > refrigerator in AC mode. Since I do the bulk of the real WORK done to get an RV going, comfortable camped in, brought back home and stowed, I have been given wide latitude by my family, including dry camping. Now that they are grown, my three daughters are showing their husbands and offspring all about camping - including DRY camping. I prefer dry camping, more so now that I have a little, quiet genset. Heck, the only difference between dry camping and camping with an electric hookup for us now is the difference between having air conditioning or not. If it's so hot, or Mrs. MacWidow's allergies are so bad, that we cannot "camp" without AC, we stay home. <sigh> It would be interesting to see how much draw the electronics of my refrigerator REALLY is. It is too bad if "they" truly have made absorption-type (gas) refrigerators for RV use SO <ahem> "safe" that they no longer operate - AT ALL - while on gas but WITHOUT a 12VDC power supply. Signature:) JR 2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000 > Heck, the only difference between dry camping and camping with an > electric > hookup for us now is the difference between having air conditioning > or not. I live in Florida. Need I say more? SignatureChris Cowles Gainesville, FL >>> What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day >>> refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > support is for on the road, only. What is the requirement for 12v on > newer ones? Is there a safety interlock on the gas valve? For a min I thought you were the original poster and was changing your story but now see otherwise. To know the exact amount of power for 12V operation you need to refer to the power tag on the frig. My frig operating in 12V mode needs 16-18A (recalling from memory). Mickey > What can be done to keep your refrigerator cold. The present day > refrigerators need 12 volts to stay cold.. In past years the gas pilot would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Even if we use solar power how would I hook up to solar power to only run > the fridge by itself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't think you can run solar panels directly to the refrigerator unless you isolate the fridges 12V needs to a separate battery. If you do a lot of dry camping, solar panels will keep the batteries charged with out creating any noise, so I think a solar panel system would be a very good thing for you to investigate. SignatureJanet Wilder Bad spelling. Bad punctuation Good Friends. Good Life Does Anyone know if it is safe to hookup a 12 volt battery directly to a dometic refrigerator and disconnect the main line from the RV to the fridge. > Does Anyone know if it is safe to hookup a 12 volt battery directly to a > dometic refrigerator and disconnect the main line from the RV to the fridge. Of course you can. But why? If you only want the 12 volts for the control circuit, then there is no good reason to use a separate battery because the current use for the control board is trivial. If you want to use the separate battery to run the 12 volt heater for the refrigeration unit, then the load is much larger and you will run the battery down relatively rapidly. You are better off using the standard setup using the house batteries for the 12 volt control circuit and the propane heater in the refrigerator unit. The reason is that you can have much greater heat energy available in the propane tank than in the battery. Your propane tank will last weeks running the refrigerator. A 12 volt battery used for the heater (if you have one) will last a day or so. The safety issue is in the connections. I assume you will use proper electrical switching to do this. Not jumper cables. John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee John If the voltage drops below a certain threshold level the refrigerator will not stay cold because you need a certain voltage for the circuit board in the fridge to light the flame for the refrigerator. Low voltage and the fridge will not cool. >> Does Anyone know if it is safe to hookup a 12 volt battery directly to a >> dometic refrigerator and disconnect the main line from the RV to the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee
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