Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Dave in LV; I've Seen the Light! (But the bulb's gone now.)

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Dr.H@l0nf1r£$ - 23 Oct 2007 14:23 GMT
Calling All Christians.

You say that the Bible is the true word of God, and it does not have any
errors in it. Well, in that case please give me an account of the death of
Jesus and his subsequent resurrection, without any discrepancies.

Now this is the mainstay of your religious beliefs, and highly appropriate
as it is the feast of the Pagan Goddess Estre, Ishtar or Astarte, after whom
Easter was originally named. The Goddess of Spring, whose Holy day was
stolen by the Christians and used as the time when their God was supposed to
have given his son as a Saviour.

What I want you to do is simple really. : From the 165 verses in the Bible
that give an account of what happened beginning on, well, lets make it easy
for you and say Easter Morning going through to the Ascension; give me a
simple chronological statement of events , but miss nothing out that the
Bible says happened. : Document where and when events occurred, and who said
what and why.

Just to help you on your way I'll give you a few examples of what I need to
see. :-

 1.. Who were the women who visited the tomb?
 2) What time did they visit the tomb?
 3) What was the reason they went to the tomb?
 4) Was the tomb open or closed when they arrived?
 5) Who was already there?
 6) Where exactly where they?
 7) What did they say?
Please also include the accounts given in Acts, not just the four accounts
given by Matthew, Mark Luke and John. You can also include the mention Paul
makes of events in Corinthians.Can YOU do this simple task as partial proof
that the Bible is inerrant?

...

Before you embark upon this errand I feel  I should let you in on something.
: It's an impossible quest, as the accounts contradict one another time and
time again. Is this an error of translation? A case of Papal editing maybe?
No, apparently not in this case. : The original Bible manuscripts used seem
to be in contradiction with one another in the greek. : Now what should that
say to you when looked at in the wider sense? Well if just this one piece of
information has conflicting accounts from different writers, then surely all
those writers must be errant in other details also. : This then throws into
question the accuracy of the four Gospel accounts, and indeed the other
Gospel accounts contained in the Nag Hammadi Library for that matter. The
most glaring inaccuracy, and the one with the most serious implications is
that of the Apostle Paul in Acts. Why? Paul reputedly wrote a large amount
of the New Testament, on which a lot of past and modern-day Christian
doctrine is based. This,then, throws into question the accuracy of a good
part of the New Testament, and indeed brings suspicion upon the other
unmentioned writers such as Timothy. Such glaring inaccuracies clearly
demonstrate that the Bible is in no way divinely inspired by some infallible
superdeity; in which case it leads us to ask the question of exactly how
much of the writings are bourne of the writer's own political agenda?

Of course some of the writings have indeed been the subject of Papal editing
both by omission and addition. But how much accuracy can we credit to even
the original unedited, untranslated, writings. Seemingly from the foregoing,
not a lot. It cartainly wouldn't be a publication in which I'd put my faith;
and as for running my life by it, and/or building my core beliefs upon its
teachings, forget it; I'd rather use Winnie the Pooh as my life-guide!
(Although those countless sessions stood on a bridge over a river playing
pooh-sticks would would be a gargantuanly unproductive waste of time.)

Stepping along the ladder of consequence as the ripples spread out from
source, the entire fabric of modern Christianity shakes, cracks and a few
pinnacles topple as if hit by an earthquake, under the waves made by these
facts. - But this single insight alone is nothing compared with the sum
total of facts, some of blatant forgery and deception, others of extreme
violence and genocide, which go together to rock this pitiful
control-religion to its foundations. ...But that's another story.
Ken - 23 Oct 2007 16:16 GMT
On Oct 23, 6:23 am, "Dr.H@l0nf1r?$"
<sha...@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
But that's another story.

Dave's a sissy boy!
Dave in Lake Villa - 23 Oct 2007 17:56 GMT
Shazzam,   For the sake of  brevity, please just simply state your
alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and  you shall be given a
detailed answer which demonstrates  there is not a contradiction.

Thank you.
Dr.H@l0nf1r£$ - 23 Oct 2007 18:14 GMT
> Shazzam,   For the sake of  brevity, please just simply state your
> alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and  you shall be given a
> detailed answer which demonstrates  there is not a contradiction.
>
> Thank you.

Dimwitticus Maximus; for the sake of sanity simply read my post aagain; look
up all accounts, realise contradictions, and try to worm your way out of it
with lies and hypocrisy as you normally do. Perhaps you might saay that the
Bible writers weren't true Christians and that only true Christians know
what really happened?
Ken - 23 Oct 2007 20:18 GMT
On Oct 23, 10:14 am, "Dr.H@l0nf1r?$"
<sha...@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> > Shazzam,   For the sake of  brevity, please just simply state your
> > alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and  you shall be given a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Bible writers weren't true Christians and that only true Christians know
> what really happened?

Sharron, why waste your time?
All you're going to get from dimwitted dumbfuck dave is CCPed crap
from some other religiously deluded individual that saz: "There can't
be any biblical errors cause I say so"
Dan Listermann - 23 Oct 2007 20:33 GMT
>> Shazzam,   For the sake of  brevity, please just simply state your
>> alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and  you shall be given a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> that the Bible writers weren't true Christians and that only true
> Christians know what really happened?

I suspect, in the end, there is only one true Christian, Dave.
Dave in Lake Villa - 23 Oct 2007 23:38 GMT
shazza@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid (Dr.H@l0nf1r£$)
Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
Shazzam,   For the sake of brevity, please just simply state your
alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and you shall be given a
detailed answer which demonstrates there is not a contradiction.
Thank you.

"Dimwitticus Maximus; for the sake of sanity simply read my post aagain;
look up all accounts, realise contradictions, and try to worm your way
out of it with lies and hypocrisy as you normally do. Perhaps you might
saay that the Bible writers weren't true Christians and that only true
Christians know what really happened?"

REPLY:  Shazz,  

1.  What have YOU done to try to find out the answer to this alleged
contradiction that you pose ?  Have you sat down with a Pastor , have
you gone online, take a trip to your local Library, or sought out
Christian based materials on the issue ?

2.  What if it were shown you that this is not a contradiction and that
there are NO contradictions in the Bible ... only misunderstandings and
misconstruing by critics ;  would this be the compelling evidence which
you need to walk from Wiccan/Paganism/Witchcraft and give Jesus Christ
your total devotion as your Lord and Saviour ?

3.  If you answer 'No' to all of the above, then what makes you think
you should put me and others on a wild goose chase for your sadistic
pleasure ?

Regards, Max
Dr.H@l0nf1r£$ - 24 Oct 2007 01:46 GMT
> shazza@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid (Dr.H@l0nf1r£$)
> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> REPLY:  Shazz,

*Shazza* is fine; it's what most people call me. Shazzam sounds like an
eastern fake magician and Shazz sounds cheap.

> 1.  What have YOU done to try to find out the answer to this alleged
> contradiction that you pose ?

I've been researching it on and off for the past year almost.

>  Have you sat down with a Pastor,

I want facts and unbiased honesty; not weird interpretations and excuses.

>  have
you gone online,

That's how I do most of my research as it happens.

> take a trip to your local Library, or sought out
> Christian based materials on the issue ?

Yes to all; and though I've found much fact-twisting and wriggling in some
of the Christian materials I still have no satisfactory answer; which is why
I'm throwing it at you.

> 2.  What if it were shown you that this is not a contradiction and
> that there are NO contradictions in the Bible ... only
> misunderstandings and misconstruing by critics ;

Like mistranslations you mean? Look you - The fact is that there *are* many
glaring contradictions in the Bible. - Unless you use the Satanic Bible
perhaps?

 would this be the
> compelling evidence which you need to walk from
> Wiccan/Paganism/Witchcraft and give Jesus Christ your total devotion
> as your Lord and Saviour ?

Not at all; but it would be fun to see you try to wriggle your way out of
it. - If you could show me that there are no contradictions in the Bible
then I'd show you that you were using a different Bible.

> 3.  If you answer 'No' to all of the above, then what makes you think
> you should put me and others on a wild goose chase for your sadistic
> pleasure ?

So you're saying then that it *is* in fact a wild goose chase because you
are fully aware of the glaring contradictions I've highlighted - But you do
have a cunning few lines of spiel which occasionally convince the odde
halfwit otherwise. : Let's hear them then...

> Regards, Max
Harry Harris - 24 Oct 2007 02:00 GMT
| > shazza@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid (Dr.H@l0nf1r£$)
| > Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
| have a cunning few lines of spiel which occasionally convince the odde
| halfwit otherwise. : Let's hear them then...

It's not fair expecting somebody to prove there aren't any
contradictions in the whole Bible. Instead you should write one
down and ask why it *isn't* a contradiction. Most good Christians
can and probably would be happy to explain the so-called
discrepancies to you.

Obviously, there are some but they're no big deal. When four
different people give their views in the Gospels you have to expect
all of them didn't see the exact same thing. Different perspectives
and all that. That's the main way most of the Gospel discrepancies
can be explained. And another thing. The Gospels were passed down
for a couple generations by verbal means. They weren't put down on
paper for a couple hundred years after the fact so when you
consider that it's simply amazing and must be inspired by the hand
of God for them to be so close.

And did you know there is good evidence of a couple lost
pro-genitor gospels from which at least two and possibly three of
the ones we know today were written?

HH

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Dr.H@l0nf1r£$ - 24 Oct 2007 02:52 GMT
>>> shazza@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid (Dr.H@l0nf1r£$)
>>> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
> can and probably would be happy to explain the so-called
> discrepancies to you.

OK so why *isn't* this glaring contradiction between the 4 Gospels in use a
contradiction?
If someone says "The sky is cloudy today" in their account; but I say "The
sun is shining and it's a clear day." in my account then it's a
contradiction.
In 2000 years time someone who notices the contradiction might also realise
that I suffer from migraines occasionally and attribute my seeing the sun to
falshing lights in my eyes - Well come on that's about as much sense as some
of the Christian "apologies" make. ('Sorry; the Bible's a pack of
disagreements; but here's some excuses for why it might seem that way...
(What a load of... It *is* that way; which is the reason that it might
*seem* that way.) - Nevertheless the fact remains; there's a contradiction.

> Obviously, there are some but they're no big deal. When four
> different people give their views in the Gospels you have to expect
> all of them didn't see the exact same thing. Different perspectives
> and all that. That's the main way most of the Gospel discrepancies
> can be explained. And another thing. The Gospels were passed down
> for a couple generations by verbal means.

And you'd trust that method to have even 50% accuracy after hundreds of
years?!

> They weren't put down on
> paper for a couple hundred years after the fact so when you
> consider that it's simply amazing and must be inspired by the hand
> of God for them to be so close.

Or just made up; sensationalised a bit, and produced for distribution.

> And did you know there is good evidence of a couple lost
> pro-genitor gospels from which at least two and possibly three of
> the ones we know today were written?

Has anyone actually found these "progenitor gospels"? According to DILV
there's rock-solid evidence that Christianity has got it right and everyone
else is wrong; but he can't produce any when asked; only superstition and
hearsay.

There's over twenty in all which not many people have read. : The Gospel of
Philip, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Truth, the Gospel of Judas, the
Gospel of Mary - to name but five. Why are they so hidden? The Pope around
1500 - 1600 years ago decided that we couldn't read them as they don't say
what the church want us to hear,  that's why. - And all of Christianity has
been founded upon what a Pope decided we should believe.
Harry Harris - 24 Oct 2007 20:04 GMT
| >>> shazza@NOSPAM.kustomkomputa.co.uk.invalid (Dr.H@l0nf1r£$)
| >>> Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
| what the church want us to hear,  that's why. - And all of Christianity has
| been founded upon what a Pope decided we should believe.

This is my favorite gospel.
http://www.gospels.net/translations/infancythomastranslation.html
that was left out of the Bible by the council at Nicaea. (Maybe -
see below). It's about Jesus' childhood and was written by Thomas.
If you haven't read it you oughta read it.

Here's a sample of it just to get your curiosity up.
Chapter 9

(1) And after a few days passed, Jesus was up on a roof of a house.
And one of the children playing with him died after falling off the
roof. And when the other children saw, they fled and Jesus was left
standing alone.

(2) When the parents of the one who had died came, they accused
Jesus, "Troublemaker, you threw him down."

(3) But Jesus replied, "I did not throw him down, rather he threw
himself down. When he was not acting carefully, he leaped off the
roof and died."

(4) Jesus leaped off the roof and stood by the corpse of the boy
and cried out with a loud voice and said, "Zeno," - for that was
his name - "rise up, talk to me: did I throw you down?"

(5) And rising up immediately, he said, "No, Lord, you did not
throw me down, but you did raise me up."

(6) And when they saw this, they were overwhelmed. The parents of
the child glorified God on account of the sign which had happened
and they worshipped Jesus.

As for the Council of Nicaea and Constantine choosing what books
were to be officially included in the Bible there is some doubt
about it.

"From these there appears almost no evidence that the council of
Nicaea made any pronouncements on which books go in the Bible, with
the ambivalent exception of Jerome, or about the destruction of
heretical writings, or reincarnation.   However it did condemn
Arius and his teachings, and the Emperor Constantine did take the
usual Late Roman steps to ensure conformity afterwards.  However
these were not put into effect; and Arianism made an almost
immediate comeback.  Even Arius was recalled by Constantine."

From: http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

HH
(does the "rv" in alt.rv stand for "religious values?"

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

stan.birch@hotmail.com - 24 Oct 2007 22:31 GMT
>There's over twenty in all which not many people have read. : The Gospel of
>Philip, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Truth, the Gospel of Judas, the
>Gospel of Mary - to name but five. Why are they so hidden?

Hidden??!!  You've gotta be kidding!!

And as for the "not many people have read" comment, give us a break!!
Of all the people who have never read these "Gospels", your name is
prolly at the top of the list. When you've actually read them, then
come back to us with your most wondrous evaluation. As for me, I've
actually read them; and they are generally characterized as the most
meritless pieces of crapp ever written!

>The Pope around 1500 - 1600 years ago decided that we couldn't read them as they don't say
>what the church want us to hear,  that's why. -

No mediaeval popes were EVER Christians, nor ever made such prestense!
Like . . . ROMAN Catholicism is a really Johnny-come-lately religion,
with no affiliation whatsoever with the "Catholic [universal] Church".
From the outset, as a non-christian bunch of self-serving politicians,
their sole objective was to exercise absolute control over the entire
planet; and ethics never precluded porking their own illeigitimate
daughters and grand-daughters, if you can imagine!!

>And all of Christianity has been founded upon what a Pope decided we should believe.

Okay . . . that's total horseshit born of total ignorance on your
part! The Roman Catholic Church and their so-called popes never even
existed until 1044 AD; and from the outset, their primary objective
was to exterminate Christians!

To believe that this hideous anti-Christian organization ever had
anything whatsoever to do with promoting "Christianity" would relegate
to ignorant uninformed non-gratia status!
Shazza - 24 Oct 2007 22:49 GMT
>> There's over twenty in all which not many people have read. : The
>> Gospel of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> actually read them; and they are generally characterized as the most
> meritless pieces of crapp ever written!

You obviously can't see the deeper meaning in them, if you yourself have
read them that is. Why do you assume that I haven't?

>> The Pope around 1500 - 1600 years ago decided that we couldn't read
>> them as they don't say what the church want us to hear,  that's why.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> existed until 1044 AD; and from the outset, their primary objective
> was to exterminate Christians!

You need to study history again; from the conquest of Rome by the Teutanes
known as the Visigoths, the RC Church was formed; although only being named
Roman Catholic in the 9th Century. : Previous to this however, it was still
presided over by a Pope from around the Fifth century or before.

There's a lot of aggression in your rhetoric I note. You suffer from some
underlying discontentment of some kind.

> To believe that this hideous anti-Christian organization ever had
> anything whatsoever to do with promoting "Christianity" would relegate
> to ignorant uninformed non-gratia status!

Would relegate what?

Please forgive the disorganisation, if any, in my postings. : I've just
totally restored my main computer, during which my HDD with the backup files
on it went tits up, so I'm currently all over the place.
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 24 Oct 2007 23:43 GMT
Night is now drawing nigh, and time to join my bride for the evening .
. .
Nothwithstanding: I am in no way ignoring your message. And I would
bet that you and I have a whole lot of interesting stuff to talk to
you about on a somewhat elevated basis, if you are up to it.

From a personal perespective, blowing something like $1.500 to obtain
something like 38 volumes of Early Church writings was hardly a
consideration.
Dr.H@l0nf1r£$ - 25 Oct 2007 01:26 GMT
> Night is now drawing nigh, and time to join my bride for the evening .
> . .
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> something like 38 volumes of Early Church writings was hardly a
> consideration.

Do have a great evening. It's nighttime here in the UK; gone midnight in
actual fact. - I'm a night-owl; always have been.

'Catch you again; 'always up for a discussion.
stan.birch@hotmail.com - 24 Oct 2007 21:40 GMT
>On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 (Dave in Lake Villa) wrote:

>Dave in Lake Villa wrote:
>Shazzam, ? For the sake of brevity, please just simply state your
>alleged Bible contradiction... succintly.., and you shall be given a
>detailed answer which demonstrates there is not a contradiction.

That's really a no-brainer for anyone quasi-familiar with the
Judaeo-Christian Bible:

Proverbs 26:4  Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou
also be like unto him.

Proverbs 26:5  Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise
in his own conceit.
Shad O'Shay - 24 Oct 2007 21:56 GMT
| That's really a no-brainer for anyone quasi-familiar with the
| Judaeo-Christian Bible:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
| Proverbs 26:5  Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise
| in his own conceit.

And the one right before those applies to you:  Proverbs 26:3 A
whip for the horse, a bridle for the a.s, and a rod for the fool's
back.

The two Proverbs you posted aren't a contradiction. They're only
two different ways to look at something. Both are true when
examined independently. Better try again.

Shad O'Shay
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.