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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / November 2007Liquid Tire Balancer
Has anyone used this stuff: http://www.deltatiresealant.com/tire_balancers.php Comments welcome. Steve wrote: Has anyone used this stuff: http://www.deltatiresealant.com/tire_balancers.php Comments welcome.<<<<<< Why would you ever use this stuff ? Even if it does work, (which I doubt) what would you do when you buy tires....NOT get them balanced and put this stuff in them ? Doesn't sound like a good plan to me. If you do get the tires balanced, why would you need this stuff ? instead of buying this stuff, buy one of those magnets that go on your fuel line, you would be farther ahead.  SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) Or one of them tornado thingys for the air intake .... or even better a fukkin hundred dollar K$N filter... LMAO!!!! s > Why would you ever use this stuff ? > Even if it does work, (which I doubt) what would you do when you buy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > instead of buying this stuff, buy one of those magnets that go on your > fuel line, you would be farther ahead. > Steve wrote: Has anyone used this stuff: > http://www.deltatiresealant.com/tire_balancers.php [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > instead of buying this stuff, buy one of those magnets that go on your > fuel line, you would be farther ahead. That's a good question and here is my reasoning. I have a class B that has nicely balanced tires. Being a bit older motorhome it has worn rubber bushings in the front end. I have replaced the shocks and lower ball joints but at about 65 mph there is a resonance where the front end jumps up and down. It is annoying and slightly dangerous. I figure, rather than spend 2K$ to replace the bushings and upper ball joints, I could put this stuff in the tires and the entire front end, not just the tires alone, would be continuously balanced - in other words the "shimmy" would be minimized. The magnets on the fuel line are a gimmick that do not work. Gasoline is non magnetic and the molecules in it that are polarized would only be deflected in trajectory when moving. The thing that really works, since gasoline is a dielectric, is an E field polarizer. What it does is cause a net displacement in the gasoline in the fuel line so that all the molecules are aligned to the same electric polarization. The E field polarizer holds the molecules in this orientation until they are sprayed by the fuel injectors. Without the E field to hold the molecules together (against their will) they disperse much more from the injector than with no E field polarizer. The result is a much finer fuel mist, much more efficient combustion and fuel economy as much as 40% greater. The hard part is maintaining the E field through the injector but it can be done. Steve I see where "Steve" <wondersteve@gmail.com> contributed: >That's a good question and here is my reasoning. I have a class B that has >nicely balanced tires. Being a bit older motorhome it has worn rubber [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >economy as much as 40% greater. The hard part is maintaining the E field >through the injector but it can be done. I was tempted to try to help you, but anyone who actually believes that an "E field polarizer" could yield a 40% efficiency improvement is beyond help. WAAAAY beyond help. For the benefit of non-idjits, balanced, round tires on normally tight suspension components do not cause yer front (or back) end to hop up and down. I strongly advise against liquid additives inside rv tires - maybe OK on farm machines, buit not on tge highway. Will Sill I post to help rv'ers and to annoy the snot outa idjits, morons and liberal kooks. If you're annoyed, check yer mirror to see why. >I see where "Steve" <wondersteve@gmail.com> contributed: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > that an "E field polarizer" could yield a 40% efficiency improvement > is beyond help. WAAAAY beyond help. Perhaps you could help these fellows: http://www.magchargr.com/images/E-Spray.pdf (diesel fuel mileage increased by 30% using method) or these fellows: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel3/28/14535/00663471.pdf?arnu mber=663471 or these fellows: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel2/650/6279/00244385.pdf?arnu mber=244385 or this fellow: http://www.winstonbrill.com/bril001/html/article_index/articles/101-150/article1 13_body.html or maybe this: http://www.inderscience.com/offer.php?id=13671 Or the boys at Naval Surface Warfare: http://www.p2pays.org/ref/21/20115.pdf Or this: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JFEGA400012 8000005000903000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes Ooops!: http://www.edata-center.com/journals/6a7c7e10642258cc,6fb83a3f452f6bb8,7b4a85c97 280bf6a.html Oh no! http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA 184967 There are so many beyond help! > For the benefit of non-idjits, balanced, round tires on normally tight > suspension components do not cause yer front (or back) end to hop up > and down. I strongly advise against liquid additives inside rv tires > - maybe OK on farm machines, buit not on tge highway. You are a master of the obvious. My case the front end is not exactly tight, can round tires make it go up and down? These guys: http://www.balancemasters.com/home.html claim it will work on RV's. They claim it will smooth things out. There are also these that do not go inside tires (please note they are recommended by RV publications) : http://rv-marine.tripod.com/balancers.html http://www.fmca.com/fmc2004/novmag/products.asp http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/output.cfm?id=996805 If those automatic balancers work they are the greatest thing sinced sliced bread. Would I have to get 2 each for each tire in the duallie? Will the spare need one? Thanks for the help Steve > Will Sill > I post to help rv'ers and to annoy the snot outa idjits, > morons and liberal kooks. If you're annoyed, check yer > mirror to see why. Steve, I'm going to give you 2 pieces of advice!! 1. You can try every gimmick you want to balance tires to stop the slop in your front end and you'll still be pissing in the wind until you replace the parts that are worn to the point there is movement that is not normal. 2. If the mileage improvements claimed by any of these gadgets that are sold to separate the gullible from their money really worked, they would be on every new vehicle that hit the showroom floor. Wake up!! Tom J >> I see where "Steve" <wondersteve@gmail.com> contributed: >> [quoted text clipped - 113 lines] >> morons and liberal kooks. If you're annoyed, check yer >> mirror to see why. > Steve, I'm going to give you 2 pieces of advice!! > > 1. You can try every gimmick you want to balance tires to stop the slop in > your front end and you'll still be pissing in the wind until you replace > the parts that are worn to the point there is movement that is not normal. The problem is a resonance which appears at one speed. Slop appears at all speeds and is easy to fix. The resonance may not be caused by slop but by inadequate dampening, an out of round wheel, tire sidewall stiffness, etc. I could be spending thousands of dollars replacing parts that don't need to be replaced to fix it. The balancing beads in the tires may just do the trick at a mere fraction of the cost of a single shock absorber. If it does no harm what is the risk? > 2. If the mileage improvements claimed by any of these gadgets that are > sold to separate the gullible from their money really worked, they would > be on every new vehicle that hit the showroom floor. Wake up!! The electrostatic fuel injectors are still in their infancy. They can make very fine aerosol particles and will increase gas mileage. Watch for them in the not too distant future. > Tom J > [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] >>> morons and liberal kooks. If you're annoyed, check yer >>> mirror to see why. Steve wrote:The electrostatic fuel injectors are still in their infancy. They can make very fine aerosol particles and will increase gas mileage. Watch for them in the not too distant future.<<<< They will be for sale on the shelf right next to the magnets for your fuel line. A gallon of gasoline has 124,000 BTU's and a gallon of fuel oil has 139,000 BTU's. (according to http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/science/energy_calculator.html) It doesn't make any difference what you do with that gas or fuel oil, it isn't going to make any more BTU's. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) > Steve wrote:The electrostatic fuel injectors are still in their infancy. > They can make very fine aerosol particles and will increase gas mileage. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It doesn't make any difference what you do with that gas or fuel oil, it > isn't going to make any more BTU's. A gallon of gasoline has 124, 000 BTUs, if burned in one hour will produce 48 horsepower. At highway speed, 65 mph, the average SUV gets 15 mpg. That's burning 4.3 gph or using 208 hp by your reasoning (since it doesn't matter HOW the gasoline is burned). The "average" SUV is about 250 hp so it must operate at 208/250 = 83% of full power to go 65 mph. Do you really think it takes 208 hp to push an SUV along the highway at 65 mph? No it doesn't. It takes more like 60 hp to do it which would mean the car should burn a little over a gallon an hour or get about 55 miles per gallon. So why is it getting only 15 mpg? Could combustion efficiency be a factor? This reference here shows an combustion efficiency typically of 20%: http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring2002_Web_projects/Z.Yates/Zach's%20Web%20Pr oject%20Folder/EICE%20-%20Main.htm This reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection Claims direct fuel injection is more fuel efficient than earlier types of fuel injection. The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) acknowledge the superiority of electrostatic injectors and test them on small engines: http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2005-32-0090 Journal of Applied Physics: http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/11/2/004 If the sprayed droplet size is smaller, the fuel economy increases. Electrostatic fuel injectors decrease the droplet size. > Steve wrote:The electrostatic fuel injectors are still in their infancy. > They can make very fine aerosol particles and will increase gas mileage. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It doesn't make any difference what you do with that gas or fuel oil, it > isn't going to make any more BTU's. http://tinyurl.com/2f7jge >> Steve wrote: Has anyone used this stuff: >> http://www.deltatiresealant.com/tire_balancers.php [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Steve Square tires don't roll very well but can be balanced. Are the tires ROUND? Some better tire shops still have the ability to "true" the tires, i.e. trim so out of round problems are corrected. Mickey Being a bit older motorhome it has worn rubber > bushings in the front end. I have replaced the shocks and lower ball joints > but at about 65 mph there is a resonance where the front end jumps up and > down. It is annoying and slightly dangerous. I figure, rather than spend 2K$ > to replace the bushings and upper ball joints, I could put this stuff in the > tires and the entire front end, not just the tires alone, would be > continuously balanced - in other words the "shimmy" would be minimized. > Steve- Hi Steve, It is my opinion that worn front end parts (tie-rod ends, steering box/linkage, ball joints and etc) are far more dangerous than an unbalanced tire/wheel. If one of the steering components becomes disconnected due to wear, you will most likely lose the ability to steer the vehicle which could lead to you harming yourself and maybe others. My suggestion is to fix it right. Replace the worn parts. By doing what you are considering to do is like putting a bandaid on a severed leg. Hank <~~~~wouldn't take the chance > Has anyone used this stuff: > > http://www.deltatiresealant.com/tire_balancers.php > > Comments welcome. The company I work for uses this stuff, It was recommended by the Goodyear dealer that supplies all our tires. I thought it was in the same league as fuel magnets and other rip-offs but apparently it works as advertised. Three months ago they put new front tires on the tractor I drive (2000 Freightliner Century class with 590 thousand miles) and it is smooth at all speeds, No shake or shimmy at any speed. Jack Cassidy I am concerned by a possible "mess" that would be created inside the tire. What does your company do when you put new tires on? Doesn't this stuff cause a problem then? Dave > > Has anyone used this stuff: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jack Cassidy >I am concerned by a possible "mess" that would be created inside the > tire. What does your company do when you put new tires on? Doesn't > this stuff cause a problem then? > > Dave The company uses the same Goodyear dealer and they don't appear to have any problem changing the tires out, It may even make it easier to get the old tires off the rim. Jack Cassidy.. >> > Has anyone used this stuff: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Jack Cassidy >>I am concerned by a possible "mess" that would be created inside the >> tire. What does your company do when you put new tires on? Doesn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jack Cassidy.. Another option, although I'm sure more expensive, but won't make a mess is: www.centramatic.com SignatureSteve - From behind a hill somewhere in WV Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain Jack Cassidy wrote:Three months ago they put new front tires on the tractor I drive (2000 Freightliner Century class with 590 thousand miles) and it is smooth at all speeds, No shake or shimmy at any speed. It would seem like any vehicle with no worn steering parts and new balanced tires should be smooth at any speed. SignatureJerryD(upstateNY) > Jack Cassidy wrote:Three months ago they put new front tires on the > tractor I drive (2000 Freightliner Century class with 590 thousand miles) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It would seem like any vehicle with no worn steering parts and new > balanced tires should be smooth at any speed. If it was my choice I would not have put this stuff in the tires, However I may give it a try the next time I put tires on my pickup truck, It sure would be nice to not have any lead balance weights on my aluminum wheels. Jack Cassidy >> Has anyone used this stuff: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jack Cassidy Thank you Jack. I think I may try the stuff. I do have concerns about the liquid interfering with a flat repair. However there is a non liquid product called Dyna Beads http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.html that seems to work on the same principle. Again, thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Steve >Thank you Jack. I think I may try the stuff. I do have concerns about the >liquid interfering with a flat repair. However there is a non liquid product >called Dyna Beads http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.html that seems >to work on the same principle. Again, thanks for sharing your experience and >thoughts. There are lots of products out there using dry ingredients, not just one. Best known is the brand name Equal. The principle is pretty straight-forward, and truck drivers have been doing it for years using things like BBs and lead shot. The biggest issue is to have enough weight to do the job, and not have excessive amounts. The commercial products will have recommendations based on tire size, while you are on your own with BBs. Don Bradner donb (not don) at arcatapet.com '90 Wanderlodge PT40 "Blue Thunder" towing '07 Jeep Liberty Posting today by Satellite from Sedona, AZ |
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