Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / February 2008
Easter Virus
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william boyd - 10 Feb 2008 14:51 GMT http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/valentine.asp
 Signature BILL P.
Ken Harrison - 12 Feb 2008 07:10 GMT > http://www.snopes.com/etc. If you get a link to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/EASTER/2002-09/1032371550 don't believe a word of it.
kh
Hustlin' Hank - 13 Feb 2008 11:09 GMT Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had a computer for over 20 years. I have NEVER had a virus and I don't run antivirus software. Of course I don't open files with .exe, .bat, .sys and etc.
I thought I had a virus once, but it ended up being a bad cd rom. Why do you people seem to get viruses?
Hank <~~~practices safe computing :-)
Jim Redelfs - 13 Feb 2008 13:22 GMT In article <883f9672-fbeb-4f84-b1d8-7015f9065b73@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had a computer for over 20 years. I > have NEVER had a virus and I don't run antivirus software. Without using anti-virus software, which is usually required to detect a virus (not to mention eradicate it and provide protection against future infection), how do you KNOW you have never had a virus?
> Of course I don't open files with .exe, .bat, .sys and etc. I suspect you mean email ATTACHMENTS with those tags. Still, you don't have to open/launch an executable (i.e. .exe) to be infected.
If you are connected to the internet (dial-up or full-time/high-speed connection, it doesn't matter) and you web surf, you are regularly bombarded with viruses, trojan horses, worms, spyware and various, other "malware". Heck, commercial, boxed, retail software has been removed from store shelves because it was discovered to deliver a virus!
If you are running ANY "flavor" of Microsoft Windoze(sic), do not have anti-virus protection installed on your peecee, and are connected to the internet, you probably have all MANNER of little creepy, crawly things under the hood of which you are blissfully unaware.
Like you mused: You are just lucky - that they haven't done enough damage for you to go looking for them.
I am aware of your reputation for being - ah - "frugal". Still, if your current (Windoze) machine has less than 512 MB of RAM and NO anti-virus protection, you would be absolutely AMAZED at the performance improvement were you to upgrade the RAM (to at least 1,024 MB) and run the latest AV software.
Computer memory (RAM) has become almost ridiculously cheap these days and AV software isn't expensive, either. Upgrade/install those things and you may feel as though you have a NEW computer. It can be THAT dramatic of an improvement.
> Why do you people seem to get viruses? I don't. I run Apple Mac OS X. Unix or linux users are likewise virtually immune.
Windoze, on the other hand, has more "holes" than swiss cheese. The latest OS, Vista, is said (by MS) to be more secure but potential adopters are staying away in droves for other reasons. Some users that have upgraded are retreating back to XP.
 Signature :) JR
PowerMac G4 MDD 1.25 SP Mac OS X 10.5.1
Hustlin' Hank - 13 Feb 2008 20:57 GMT > Without using anti-virus software, which is usually required to detect a virus > (not to mention eradicate it and provide protection against future infection), [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > � � � � � � :) > JR Well, If I do have, or have had a virus, it hasn't hurt the speed or function of any programs. So, what difference does it make?
I have had friends email me with "Virus Alerts" of programs sent thru email. They even said Snopes says it is a virus. I checked it out only to find it wasn't. People are paranoid.
On the flip side of your info: Just because your VP software says yosu have a virus doesn't make it so. Let me see.......if I was in the AV software business, wouldn't it be beneficial to create viruses? Or at least tell people they have one but my software is better because it spots them?
Hank <~~~thinks Viruses are over-rated
Jim Redelfs - 13 Feb 2008 22:23 GMT Just remember: I have nothing to gain here. I do not own stock in either Microsoft OR Apple and am no longer a professional in the business. In fact, the flakier Windoze is, more and more of its users switch to my OS of choice. That is, of course, to my benefit.
In article <e47b98b6-348c-4e20-a258-8fa16033989a@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Well, If I do have, or have had a virus, it hasn't hurt the speed or > function of any programs. So, what difference does it make? Most viruses don't do anything dramatic. Rarely will they immediately and severely crash the host but, as they accumulate and propagate, they typically cause a GRADUAL slow-down and instability of the system.
Most Windoze users don't notice this gradual slowdown or instability of their system. When/if they finally do, they just chalk it up to the generally poor reputation of Windoze. They just put up with crashes and "hangs" and, while the computer is restarting, they let out the dog and make a sandwich.
One of the "worst" things that malware can do (and has done) is copy your electronic address book. This is one of the many ways that spam flourishes.
Every now and then someone will wonder, "Why am I getting spam? I don't give my email address to ANYONE but my most trusted friends" Their email address may have been harvested from an unprotected machine.
In other words, by not running current anti-virus protection, you are (slightly) "endangering" those whose email address is on your system.
> I have had friends email me with "Virus Alerts" of programs sent thru > email. They even said Snopes says it is a virus. I checked it out only > to find it wasn't. I would find further information in that regard to be VERY interesting. How do you check it out? Do you find a different resource to debunk the claim?
> People are paranoid. Many computer users are. If they run Windoze, it's not necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, some people are carefree or, worse, careless. <ahem>
> On the flip side of your info: Just because your VP software says yosu > have a virus doesn't make it so. Let me see.......if I was in the AV > software business, wouldn't it be beneficial to create viruses? Or at > least tell people they have one but my software is better because it > spots them? That's an interesting way to look at it but, in the seriously GEEK world of data processing, such a model wouldn't fly for even one day.
Not too long ago, Sony tried (and FAILED miserably) to release several audio CDs that, when run in the computer, (ostensibly) covertly installed anti-piracy software. No permission of the computer owner was asked and the process was not revealed.
It wasn't nearly "covert" enough: The "lid blew off" that little scandal within HOURS of the first CD hitting store shelves.
Just as there are miscreant little sh*ts out there writing viruses for whatever reason, there are many that enjoy reverse-engineering stuff just to see what's in there.
Any anti-virus author that did as you suggested would be immediately exposed and shut down.
> Hank <~~~thinks Viruses are over-rated Jim <~~~thinks Hank knows RV stuph but is blissfully ignorant when it comes to Windoze security.
 Signature :) JR
RBrumfield - 13 Feb 2008 22:41 GMT > Jim <~~~thinks Hank knows RV stuph but is blissfully ignorant > when it comes to Windoze security. > -- > :) > JR And many times I wish I was blissfully ignorant as well...:-)
JerryD(upstateNY) - 14 Feb 2008 23:52 GMT Someone wrote........Of course I don't open files with .exe, .bat, .sys and etc.
So you only open emails in plain text and no attachments, huh ? Talk about stuck in the 80's. Doesn't anyone ever send you a joke ? How about an interseting website ?
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
Hustlin' Hank - 15 Feb 2008 12:06 GMT On Feb 14, 6:52�pm, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jer...@justask.com> wrote:
> Someone wrote........Of course I don't open files with .exe, .bat, .sys and > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > JerryD(upstateNY) Of course I open emails. Yes I download pics, videos and etc. I have probaby opened tens of thousands of emails. If viruses are that prevailent, why haven't I ever had one that affected the runnings of my programs and such?
I truly believe that most geeks blame a virus rather than admit they don't know what they are doing. Or, I am just one lucky sumbitch.
Hank <~~~may play the lottery today
Dean - 15 Feb 2008 19:15 GMT >Of course I open emails. Yes I download pics, videos and etc. I have >probaby opened tens of thousands of emails. If viruses are that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I truly believe that most geeks blame a virus rather than admit they >don't know what they are doing. Or, I am just one lucky sumbitch. Yes! Not only that, your ignorance of the situation is amazing. If virii are to be blamed on 'geeks' not knowing what they are doing, why is it that my virus detector had found a few dozen over the years?
JerryD(upstateNY) - 15 Feb 2008 21:16 GMT Hustlin' Hank wrote: Of course I open emails. Yes I download pics, videos and etc. I have probaby opened tens of thousands of emails. If viruses are that prevailent, why haven't I ever had one that affected the runnings of my programs and such? I truly believe that most geeks blame a virus rather than admit they don't know what they are doing. Or, I am just one lucky sumbitch.
Hank, I agree with you. I only frequent a couple of plain text newsgroup. Every other newsgroup is a HTML group. They send pictures, movies, etc, all the time. I have never got a virus that my anti-virus didn't catch. All this fuss about getting some new super-duper virus is all bunk as far as I am concerned. I use all Microsoft applications and see no reason to use any other. Of course Microsoft gets attacked more by viruses than unix, linux and Mac OS. If someone decides to write and send out a virus, do you think he will write it so it effect 90+% of the computers or write it so it effects 4-5% of the computers ? Just like a bunch of kids........."My (enter name of gadget) is better than yours".
 Signature JerryD(upstateNY)
Hustlin' Hank - 15 Feb 2008 23:17 GMT On Feb 15, 4:16�pm, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jer...@justask.com> wrote:
> Hustlin' Hank wrote: Of course I open emails. Yes I download pics, videos > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > -- > JerryD(upstateNY) Since no one has complained about this being off topic, I'll continue until someone does complain. Then I will stop.
I wonder how many computers get "infected" before the AV software companies detect it? And then how long does it take to write a program and send out an update? Can a corupt file show up as a virus, when it really isn't a virus?
I would guess as many as a few million computers would get infected before it is discovered. Then maybe a couple more miliion before the AV company gets info on it. Then, how do they find it? What are the odds someone gets infected to the degree it ruins a program/HD/etc.?
Hank <~~~ignorant enough to question it
Jim Redelfs - 16 Feb 2008 03:06 GMT In article <33b43c8f-78ae-492c-8d85-42d569463ac7@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> I wonder how many computers get "infected" before the AV software > companies detect it? Fewer than one might imagine. Once the bug is identified by Norton or McAfee, "definition" files are updated immediately.
In this age of always on, full-time internet connected computers, a virus rarely propagates faster than the "fix" for it. Of course, one must have the fix otherwise they will run into the nasty sooner or later.
If you practice "safe computing", you're already ahead of too many users that carelessly open any attachment or surf anywhere, download and run anything.
> And then how long does it take to write a program > and send out an update? As Rich256 implied, it often takes only a few hours. That's why full-time connected computers, when properly protected with good AV software, are pretty secure, virus-wise. The AV software automatically scans their system and, at least daily, updates itself with the latest "definitions".
> Can a corupt file show up as a virus, when it really isn't a virus? I SUPPOSE it could, but I would think it would be rare, at best. AV software looks for specific code. The corrupt file would have to contain that code so the chances are slim to none.
> I would guess as many as a few million computers would get infected > before it is discovered. I doubt it, especially today with the proliferation of full-time connected, AV-protected computers. It's the systems out there with either NO protection or, more likely, out-of-date protection. In the Windoze world, up-to-date could mean hour by hour. Yes, new ones appear with that frequency. It's really sad.
> Then maybe a couple more miliion before the > AV company gets info on it. Those are numbers I can't dispute, but I'm confident that it's not that large a number.
> Then, how do they find it? Ya got me, Bub! You'd do better with a virus or anti-virus newsgroup. Search your newsgroup master list for "virus" and you get a zillion "hits" where this very topic is (no doubt) run into the ground even further than we have here!
Also, a check with Norton or McAfee might reveal some interesting stuff.
http://www.symantec.com/norton/index.jsp
http://www.mcafee.com/us/default.asp
> What are the odds someone gets infected to the degree it > ruins a program/HD/etc.? That's hard to say, really. Most viruses (apparently) do NOTHING. Some of them are just a challenge by some little twerp to see if he can release one and come back some time later and FIND it elsewhere.
Some are time bombs. They are programmed to lay dormant until a certain date or system event occurs. Then what they do could be anything from nothing to corrupting your hard-disk drive. (You DO have a current back-up, right?)
On my job, I encountered two (for sure) Windoze systems that were infected beyond belief.
I was attempting to install my employers DSL software on a family's computer (in the kid's bedroom - a BAD place for a computer, BTW) and Junior was watching. Things weren't going well (slow, hang, etc). I then invoked the first rule of troubleshooting: When in doubt, reboot. I did. The kid then brought up the task manager (or something) and there were 150 processes running right after a restart! Of course, their AV was out-of-date. After several tries, I gave up and told the kid that, when he got the thing "deloused", I could come back.
Another scenario: You know that, when the MySpace IM (Instant Messaging) client REPEATEDLY pops up and that the little arrow/pointer turns into a fire-breathing dragon, there's been some, ahhhh, MODS done to the computer. The house was FULL of kids ranging in age from 6 to 26 and EVERY one of them had full access to this full-time connected, UNprotected Windoze system
When in doubt, reboot, remember? I did. From the system startup tone to the LAST appearance of the hourglass was 20 minutes. Yep. 20 minutes.
I suspect, however, that this latter issue (long startup time) was due to insufficient RAM. They were running XP but had upgraded to Exploder(sic)7 on a machine with only 256 MB of memory. That's barely enough RAM to boot the system, let along DO ANYTHING.
Adding RAM and running up-to-date AV software is the best thing one can do for an older system. The difference in SPEED alone can be amazing.
> Hank <~~~ignorant enough to question it You're a good man, C.B.
You're gripe (if you really have one) should not be with those in the AV protection business. It should be with the lowlifes that make such an industry necessary.
Breathe new life into your old computer: RAM it up and install a "belt AND suspenders"!
 Signature :) JR
Hustlin' Hank - 16 Feb 2008 10:52 GMT On Feb 15, 10:06�pm, Jim Redelfs <jim.rede...@NOSPAMredelfs.com> wrote:
> You're a good man, C.B. C. B...?
> You're gripe (if you really have one) should not be with those in the AV > protection business. �It should be with the lowlifes that make such an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > � � � � � � :) > JR I don't have a gripe with the AV companies. I do have a gripe with so- called "computer repair techs" that blame everything on a virus. They use the term "virus" too freely, when in fact it could be a compatibility problem with software/hardware, too little RAM, and a host of other things not related to a virus.
Hank <~~~ passed the 20 question class A tech test..........many years ago. :-)
Rich256 - 16 Feb 2008 15:26 GMT > On Feb 15, 10:06�pm, Jim Redelfs <jim.rede...@NOSPAMredelfs.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Hank <~~~ passed the 20 question class A tech test..........many years > ago. :-) Computer Owners fall into that blame category too. They don't want to admit that they were trying to do something they didn't know anything about.
First computer I worked on had about 2000 peanut size vacuum tubes, drum storage, no memory except magnetic cores to keep down the need for more tubes. Actually the only computer I was closely associated with until the PC came along. Even there I was only a user - not into repair or programming. I bought a complier and a couple books on C and wrote some programs for my own personal use. But my experince doing that showed me how easy it is for someone to come up with a virus.
Things have changed. I just read where the CDC 6600 (the big mainframe of the 70s) had the computing power of a 386 PC.
Jim Redelfs - 16 Feb 2008 16:58 GMT In article <13eb5773-bb80-4e0d-9631-951668274f5f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
>> You're a good man, C.B.
> C. B...? Charlie Brown, Hank. Charlie Brown! (You're not THAT old!) <grin>
http://broadwaymusicalhome.com/shows/charliebrown.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_a_Good_Man,_Charlie_Brown
> I don't have a gripe with the AV companies. I do have a gripe with so- > called "computer repair techs" that blame everything on a virus. They > use the term "virus" too freely, when in fact it could be a > compatibility problem with software/hardware, too little RAM, and a > host of other things not related to a virus. I suspect you're afraid of being "taken for a ride" should you decide to upgrade or replace your computer system. ...and I don't blame you.
The switch from Mac OS 9 to 10 was so profound and all-encompassing, I just "let go" of any knowledge I had of the inner workings of the system because it had all changed. I am now just a fat/happy/dumb user.
Dealing with this technology is no different than that of, say, a new furnace or water heater. It is simply more complex. When upgrading or replacing those systems, you are either informed enough to protect yourself or place your trust in someone that will ensure that you aren't cheated.
To further exacerbate the helpless feeling is the sheer amount of MONEY one can (and already has, usually) spend on these computers. What I still can't get over is how QUICKLY they depreciate. Never before in our lives have we spent SO much money on something that became technically obsolete SO fast. (Functionally obsolete is another matter.)
Fortunately, for lack of a better word, one thing hasn't changed when buying a NEW computer: The more you spend the longer it will remain viable. Get the fastest processor(s) you can, get the largest hard-disk drive you can, get the largest display you can, and so on. They will be top-of-the-line today but won't be for long.
My computer is just over 4-years old. I recently upgraded its memory (RAM) to its maximum of 2 GB (2048 MB) and replaced its nearly-full, 80 GB hard-disk drive with a 250. This upgrade cost me less than $300 in today's money. To equip this computer when it was NEW to such specs, would've been close to $1k - in 2003 dollars! (RAM and hard-disk drives have gotten incredibly cheap in the last, couple years.)
Still, this computer is starting to "buckle under the load" of today's work. I manipulate music and photographs like NEVER before. I'm holding out as long as I can before I replace this trusty, old box, but its days are numbered. I just upgraded it to the last OS that will run on it. The suite (isn't that SWEET <gag>) of applications that include my photo management and manipulation software contained one application that, for the first time, will not even INSTALL on my computer because it is too old. Fortunately, I don't (haven't wanted to) run that particular software, so I'm not "out" too much.
http://www.apple.com/ilife
I long for the days when a car tune-up mean "points, plugs, rotor and condenser". You left the bolt on the distributer JUST loose enough so that after each of a few "runs", you would adjust it until JUST before the engine spark-knocked (ping?), then tighten-er down with the 9/16 in your pocket. Look, Ma! No timing light! :)
Now look: Common-rail fuel injection, NO distributor at all and, SURPRISE! There's not even a throttle cable anymore! ARGH!!
We KNEW they were trying to put the "shade tree mechanic" out of business and, by gum, they finally did it.
But Jim, BUT JIM: Cars are so much CLEANER and fuel-efficient today.
Yes, they are. <sigh>
Computers don't need to be a COMPLETE mystery. If the user doesn't know enough about them (and doesn't want to take a class or two at the local community college), that user needs to entrust someone with their computer so that a good, informed decision is made as to what improvements or upgrades are advisable or, if replacing the system, what to buy.
There has never been a better time to buy a new computer system. Given the slowing economy and vigorous competition in the consumer electronics "world", you can get a whole lotta bang for your buck these days - even if just upgrading your old system.
Thanks, again, to everyone for their patience with this OT.
 Signature :) JR
Jim Redelfs - 15 Feb 2008 23:26 GMT > If someone decides to write and send out a virus, do you think he > will write it so it effect 90+% of the computers or write it so it > effects 4-5% of the computers ? An old, Mac "slam" that's been around for years:
Even the VIRUS writers don't support Mac!
> Just like a bunch of kids........."My (enter name of gadget) is > better than yours". Well, this isn't your run-of-the-mill [Ford vs Chevy] rivalry. There is much, unbiased support of the claims made in this regard.
> I have never got a virus that my anti-virus didn't catch. Remember, the OP proudly runs NO anti-virus software on his Windoze machine.
While Windoze enjoys massive dominance in the desktop "world", the sheer number of users that run other OSes, Mac OS X in particular, is nothing to sneeze at. That there are virtually no viruses (in the "wild") for Mac OS X is NOT due nearly as much to its second-place status as is its virtual immunity.
> effects 4-5% of the computers ? Mac OS X is currently above 8% and trending upward.
The rest of the group, the majority of whom run Windoze (a fair bet), has been very patient with this OT. The OP said he'd said his last - to his credit. I just couldn't resist his query...
In article <883f9672-fbeb-4f84-b1d8-7015f9065b73@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
> Why do you people seem to get viruses? ...when I don't. If the reader is a conscientious Windoze user, s/he doesn't, either: S/he runs the latest version of good AV software and probably automatically keep it updated with current "definitions" via a modest subscription. I've done more evangelizing for the Mac than I do in the Mac newsgroups so I'll butt-out now, too. My time is up, thank-you for yours!
 Signature :) JR
PowerMac G4 MDD 1.25 SP Mac OS X 10.5.2
Rich256 - 15 Feb 2008 23:29 GMT On Feb 15, 2:16 pm, "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jer...@justask.com> wrote:
> Hustlin' Hank wrote: Of course I open emails. Yes I download pics, videos > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > -- > JerryD(upstateNY) Having anti virus software is not 100% effective either. I too went for years without any type of protection. Avoiding any executable file is adequate. A virus is always an executable file but not necessarily a .exe type. It must execute or it will not do the virus thing.
But my old machine was so slow I didn't bother with videos (which are executable files) and the like.
I remember once getting an attachement that I was very suspicious about. I checks all the anti virus sites (Norton Mcafee and the like) but none of them had any reference to it. About three hours later one of them suddenly had a message about a new virus!! Someone has to get infected before they can do anything about it.
Hustlin' Hank - 14 Feb 2008 23:51 GMT > > Why do you people seem to get viruses? > > I don't. �I run Apple Mac OS X. �Unix or linux users are likewise virtually > immune.
> JR > > PowerMac G4 MDD 1.25 SP > Mac OS X 10.5.1 HUH? What makes Apple, Unix and etc. immune from viruses?
It is a computer isn't it? People write programs for them don't they?
Hank <~~~gonna write a virus for APPLE :-)
Jim Redelfs - 15 Feb 2008 01:50 GMT In article <5bbdb0f0-8bcc-47ca-af04-0420d139a073@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Why do you people seem to get viruses?
>> I don't. I run Apple Mac OS X. Unix or linux users are >> likewise virtually immune.
> HUH? What makes Apple, Unix and etc. immune from viruses? I said VIRTUALLY immune. There are a couple or three "proof of concept" nasties that were created in a controlled environment, but they were never released.
Explaining why unix, linux and Mac OS X are "immune" is beyond my capability. It has EVERYTHING to do with the underlying unix code. For a better explanation than that, you'll have to ask elsewhere.
> It is a computer isn't it? Those geeks that proudly claim to use a <ahem> REAL computer (unix, I guess) can be pretty condescending when it comes to Macs. When it comes to Windoze, you can't get them to stop laughing long enough to catch their breath, much less explain that OS's vulnerabilities.
> People write programs for them don't they? Some darn FINE ones.
> Hank <~~~gonna write a virus for APPLE :-) Bring it on, baby! <grin>
Seriously, you could probably sell such a critter to a reputable party for a tidy sum. Unix, linux and the Mac BSD kernel (huh?) are that bullet proof.
Just because a company has become the "thousand pound gorilla" in its field does NOT make its PRODUCTS superior. Marketing (and some pretty dismal, missed/ignored opportunities by Apple) were the key to the market dominance of Windoze.
 Signature :) JR
Dale Miller - 15 Feb 2008 06:33 GMT > Explaining why unix, linux and Mac OS X are "immune" is beyond my capability. > It has EVERYTHING to do with the underlying unix code. For a better > explanation than that, you'll have to ask elsewhere. The Unix OS's are more immune because the OS doesn't let you set it up without a root password, for one thing. With that said not just any program can run without permission from the root (superuser). This is the reason most geeks run a unix based operating system.
 Signature All the Best Dale Miller Tennessee ASP since February 2005
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----
Hustlin' Hank - 15 Feb 2008 12:18 GMT > Just because a company has become the "thousand pound gorilla" in its field > does NOT make its PRODUCTS superior. �Marketing (and some pretty dismal, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > � � � � � � :) > JR You remind me of the guys who spends $100K on a car and claims he did so because it is a better car than the rest. When in reality a Yugo can get you to Point A just as well as a BMW. And maybe even have less problems with it. Us "frugal" people call them Posers.
Unlike Mac users, very few "windoze" users preach it is the best...blah, blah, blah. Windows, just like Mac, is just an OS, nothing more, nothing less.
Since this is OT, I will say no more after your response. Don't take it personally. :-)
Hank <~~~always lets the others have the last word when it really doesn't matter anyway.
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