Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / June 2008
1973 GMC Project Coach- AZ
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Steve R. - 06 Jun 2008 17:36 GMT Forgive me if this is taboo....
Pops bought a GMC coach as a restoration project and lost interest. $2500 OBO.
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/709936936.html
Thanks!
 Signature Steve
RAM³ - 06 Jun 2008 18:24 GMT > Forgive me if this is taboo.... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks! With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them.
They not only revamp the interiors but, also, re-power them with Ford V-10s as a replacement for the Olds 455s that originally came in them.
They used to have an entry on their website for sellers (other than them) who wanted to part with theirs.
David "The Hamster" Malone - 06 Jun 2008 18:31 GMT > With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that > rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them. This one...?
http://www.thegmcmotorhomepeople.com/
First try.
David "The Hamster" Malone
Will - 06 Jun 2008 20:40 GMT >With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that >rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them. > >They not only revamp the interiors but, also, re-power them with Ford V-10s >as a replacement for the Olds 455s that originally came in them. I'm familiar with Cinnabar - I used to own a GMC. But I cannot find anything sugesting how one would put a V10 Ford in one. How is that done, given the GM (Toronado/Eldorado) transaxle?
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Road taco - 06 Jun 2008 21:19 GMT >> With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that >> rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill I was thinking of that, plus, what is the advantage if it could be done? The 455 runs a little hot, and drinks gas, but it lasts forever, and won't bog down pushing an aluminum RV. I always wanted one because of the roadibilty, safety, and tandem wheels, air ride, etc. Now I'm spoiled by by 5th wheel and slide out.
Will - 06 Jun 2008 21:42 GMT > The 455 runs a little hot, and drinks gas, but it lasts forever, and >won't bog down pushing an aluminum RV. I always wanted one because of >the roadibilty, safety, and tandem wheels, air ride, etc. Now I'm >spoiled by by 5th wheel and slide out. Excerpts from old but relevant boilerplate - designed to cure you of GMC lust: =============================== You say you're bitten by the GMC bug, and realize the financial and time commitments. Whether that's true or not you are wise to ask someone who has outgrown the bug!
You'll NEED, IMO, really good shocks, rear stabilizer bars, and Wallace front hubs. I consider the latter essential, having suffered several failures in the original design. You may well WANT a number of other mods from Caspro, Cinnabar or others. Personally I would go for the final drive mods to get closer to the right ratio of around 3.70:1.
The GMC's cult following is well-heeled enough that SOMEBODY will have or make the parts. Caspro has a lot of suspension & drive train parts including a 6-speed AT! Engine & transaxle are Olds Toronado. Recently I have been unable to contact Wallace Bearing, the supplier of the crucial after-market front hubs, and believe the original Wallace died and his son has gone outa business. I am confident that GMC motorhome club people could put you in touch with someone who can solve that problem.
There have been cases of fires due to failure of the oil cooler hoses, which DEFINITELY should be replaced with the braided style.
Stick with the 455 engine but do not expect more than 10 mpg unless you are a real featherfoot. DO NOT tow with the dang thing. Gear ratios are wrong. You will find some people who do tow with them but I think they are nutz. I was really unhappy with handling when towing.
There are several negative aspects to this lovely, superbly designed coach. Virtually ALL of them are chassis related, since the coach body is arguably the finest stuff ever mass marketed. Any old crock of this vintage will need seals, hoses and most rubber replaced. Windshields are notorious for fogging at the corners but I think can still be bought for money. You may have to replace the entire air suspension system, tubing, valves and bags.
But no amount of money and maintenance will solve the following problems, which I believe to be important flaws:
FWD sucks on a heavy MH. You will be limited to good roads, gentle grades, and good traction conditions.
The rear suspension affords the best ride of ANY small MH but has lousy braking. Nothing wrong with the brakes themselves - but the front tandem is on a leading arm, the rear on a trailing arm, so braking force is impossible to balance. Result: long stopping distance and smoking rear tires.
The final drive, regardless of gears, is too fragile, especially if the engine output is enhanced at all. Mine broke the case trying to accelerate from a light towing a Pontiac Fiero. My friend's broke driving solo. Understand that EVERYTHING in the drive train except the hubs is straight off the Toronado line. And the hubs are different only in having a special 8-bolt mounting flange for truck wheels. Its a tribute to the Olds design that it holds up at all in this service.
The steering in inherently sloppy, with two U-joints and two sliding joints between the wheel and a steering box designed for pickup trucks. (Latter is bad news/good news - bad news because it is too light for the job, good news because every junkyard will have one.)
There are many people (most moderately wealthy) who have come to grips with the GMC's weaknesses and are very happy with them. We found it entirely impractical despite the admitted charm of a coach that was stylish, far better built than anything else available (16 gauge aluminum skin, for heaven's sake!), and as smooth a boulevard cruiser as ever came down the pike. We spent most of the time we owned ours (A VERY pretty '73 Glacier model, a blue & white 23-footer) crawling around fixing stuff and modifying stuff and spending money.
I trust that will give you another POV... if you decide to buy one anyway, save this message for a year and let me know how close I was to the truth! ====================
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Road taco - 07 Jun 2008 00:14 GMT I almost bought one from a friend, and changed my mind because I did see some major expenditures. He had found a design problem in the dash A/C and heat ducts. The fan would start before the duct could open, which would hold the duct partially or completely closed. He had to reverse the process that the duct would open, then the fan engaged. He also told me that due to the tandem axle configuration that, when going over a large bump or uneven ground could cause most to the vehicle weight to rest on one tire, resulting in failure. He ran very heavy duty radials.
Will - 07 Jun 2008 11:42 GMT > . . . . He also told >me that due to the tandem axle configuration that, when going over a >large bump or uneven ground could cause most to the vehicle weight to >rest on one tire, resulting in failure. He ran very heavy duty radials. Nonsense. If that were a real problem, we'd see failures daily on chassis running duals!
BTW, with '73-'76 GMC, you dare not run radials on the OEM wheels. Reason: radial tires exert more stress on the wheel rim, leading to fatigue cracking.
BTDT
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
RAM³ - 07 Jun 2008 17:12 GMT Will <will@epix.net> wrote in news:4g3l44hs504ubjro5ulvmkgc15f8m04vo9@ 4ax.com:
>> . . . . He also told >>me that due to the tandem axle configuration that, when going over a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill Apparently he hasn't studied the geometry of dual axle suspensions. <g>
Most tandem-equipped RVs have an equalizer link to keep the majority of the weight upon *both* axles/wheels, even when one is jacked up in order to change tires.
Isn't it wonderful when people talk through their hats? <G>
Will - 08 Jun 2008 13:45 GMT Road taco:
>>> . . . . He also told >>>me that due to the tandem axle configuration that, when going over a >>>large bump or uneven ground could cause most to the vehicle weight to >>>rest on one tire, resulting in failure. He ran very heavy duty radials. Will:
>> Nonsense. If that were a real problem, we'd see failures daily on >> chassis running duals! R:
>Apparently he hasn't studied the geometry of dual axle suspensions. <g> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Isn't it wonderful when people talk through their hats? <G> Happens all the time. Bogus information abounds.
In the case of the GMC, a common air bag carries front & rear tandems. Weight is carried equally at all times until the suspension reaches travel limits. If anything, their tandem setup is far easier on tires than duals. (Except, of course, for the braking problem mentioned earlier!)
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
RAM³ - 08 Jun 2008 20:00 GMT > Road taco: >>>> . . . . He also told [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill I still remember the "Road & Track" article on the GMC Motorhome when it was first introduced.
The author(s?) were quite complimentary about the unit (and GMC's willingness to introduce it) in view of its - then - fuel economy of 7 MPG on their test loop since, at the time, most units only averaged 4 MPG over the same loop.
The ride comfort *really* impressed them.
Since that time the RV Manufacturers have made tremendous strides in both fuel economy, interior design/appointments, and reliability but *I* think that the GMC really "raised the bar" when it was introduced.
Neon John - 08 Jun 2008 22:21 GMT >I still remember the "Road & Track" article on the GMC Motorhome when it >was first introduced. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >The ride comfort *really* impressed them. Our motorcycle racing team was given a GMC by our sponsor. My only experience prior to that was a Winnebago, a dealer of which was our previous sponsor. This thing was heaven. Being one of the younger members of the crew, I "had" (really "got to") drive the thing fairly often. Instant love. That was the finest driving and riding MH that I've ever been in. Contrary to rumor, we had absolutely no problems with the unit despite running the wheels off it for the year I was with the team. They kept it awhile longer after I left.
>Since that time the RV Manufacturers have made tremendous strides in both >fuel economy, interior design/appointments, and reliability but *I* think >that the GMC really "raised the bar" when it was introduced. The fuel economy credit rightfully goes to "Detroit Inc" which perfected electronic engine management as well as advanced engine designs. As far as appointments, the only improvements I see now vs then are in the areas of appliances. Specifically better refrigerators and converters. Get rid of the tragically 70s colors and patterns and IMO, the GMC interior would be right at home today.
John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Save the whales, collect the whole set!
Steve R. - 07 Jun 2008 20:38 GMT Will,
You sure know your stuff!!!!!
 Signature Steve
2008 Sonata SE- His 2005 Grand Cherokee Laredo- Hers
http://www.realtor.com/realestate/golden+valley-az-86413-1089865380
>> The 455 runs a little hot, and drinks gas, but it lasts forever, and >>won't bog down pushing an aluminum RV. I always wanted one because of [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill RAM³ - 07 Jun 2008 03:25 GMT >>With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that >>rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill You'd get the best answer from *them*.
It's my *impression* that there is a "standard" pattern for Automatic Transmission-to-Engine connection bolts.
Will - 07 Jun 2008 11:53 GMT
>>>With a bit of Googling you may find the website of the outfit that >>>rebuilds/refurbishes the GMC motorhomes and resells them. Cinnabar GMC refurbishes.
>>>They not only revamp the interiors but, also, re-power them with Ford >>>V-10s as a replacement for the Olds 455s that originally came in them. Will:
>> I'm familiar with Cinnabar - I used to own a GMC. But I cannot find >> anything sugesting how one would put a V10 Ford in one. How is that >> done, given the GM (Toronado/Eldorado) transaxle? R:
>It's my *impression* that there is a "standard" pattern for Automatic >Transmission-to-Engine connection bolts. I can't prove a negative, but I find no evidence that a Ford engine will bolt up to a Toronado transaxle. Bolt patterns aside, fitting a chain drive to the V10 crankshaft is not something I'd try. IOW, I'm skeptical.
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Neon John - 08 Jun 2008 07:28 GMT >Forgive me if this is taboo.... > >Pops bought a GMC coach as a restoration project and lost interest. $2500 >OBO. > >http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rvs/709936936.html No problem posting RV for-sale ads here. If you want folks like me who's marooned on dialup but who is also chomping at the bit for a GMC to actually look at your photos then I suggest you learn how to resize them to something suitable for the net before posting. I'd love to see your pix but I don't have the patience to download them. Resample to 1024X768 at 72dpi (around 60k files after compression) and then we'll take a look.
John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Save the whales, collect the whole set!
Matt Colie - 09 Jun 2008 14:02 GMT > Forgive me if this is taboo.... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks! Steve,
Go to www.gmcers.org, find the links at the bottom and start looking for places to post this. There are an awful lot of people looking for another to redo while they drive the one they have.
The only engine successfully transplanted has been the Cadillac 500. I like my 455 it just keeps on running.
Matt A '73 Glacier 23 that tows a toad, nothing leaks, everything works and it does do 10(towing) on gas without alcohol.
Matt
Will - 09 Jun 2008 18:14 GMT >A '73 Glacier 23 that tows a toad, nothing leaks, everything works and >it does do 10(towing) on gas without alcohol. Ah, the mixed memories - ours was also a pretty '73 Glacier 23. I did not care for its handling while towing, even w/a plastic Pontiac (Fiero) toad. I've always nurtured a foolish dream of converting one to diesel pusher configuration, but have finally come to grips with the reality that I don't have the skills, facilities and time to do it up right.
Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Steve R. - 09 Jun 2008 19:17 GMT One last comment;
My dad actually worked for Revcon and GM wanted to know what they were doing with the severed front frames they were buying (by the traincar load- Olds 455s with the transaxle attached to a frame structure) A spy bought Revcon S/N 88 and took it back to Detroit. That's where the GMC came from...maybe not the first FWD coach, but in my humble opinion, one of the best!
 Signature Steve
2008 Sonata SE- His 2005 Grand Cherokee Laredo- Hers 1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE- Ours
http://www.realtor.com/realestate/golden+valley-az-86413-1089865380
>>A '73 Glacier 23 that tows a toad, nothing leaks, everything works and >>it does do 10(towing) on gas without alcohol. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Will - The self-appointed Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
|
|
|