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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / RVs / October 2007generator question
I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it much but do start and run it monthley. Last check, it starts ok and runs ok but when I turn on a high current device like the air condition, it stops. It will run the fan ok but as soon as I turn it to cool it stops dead. I have the same problem with the microwave. It will run it for about 2 seconds then stop. Any Ideas? Thanks >I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it much >but do start and run it monthley. Last check, it starts ok and runs ok but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks Hi, What do you mean it stops dead? Is the generator actually shutting off motor shuts down or is the circuit breaker tripping. Take care and Happy Campin... RichA "We Get To Soon Olde and To Late Smart" the generator motor just stops, like it was turned off. However it starts right back up if I turn off the air or Microwave. > >I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it much > >but do start and run it monthley. Last check, it starts ok and runs ok but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > RichA > "We Get To Soon Olde and To Late Smart" >From: "JustMe" >the generator motor just stops, like it was turned off. However it starts >right back up if I turn off the air or Microwave. I agree with the other poster. Since it runs with no load, that tells you that you have compression, spark at the right time and fuel. The only thing that can vary is the fuel. So, try what he said, if that don't work, and since you had the bowl off, check to make sure you didn't change the float settings, also look at the fuel pump, crimped or clogged fuel line. Good luck. Hank remove "mitted" for emailing It had been ok since the last time I cleaned the bowl and replaced the line, this is a new problem. Thanks . > >From: "JustMe" > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Hank > remove "mitted" for emailing >It had been ok since the last time I cleaned the bowl and replaced the line, >this is a new problem. > >Thanks Look at the inline fuel filter. unk >the generator motor just stops, like it was turned off. However it starts >right back up if I turn off the air or Microwave. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> What do you mean it stops dead? Is the generator actually shutting >> off motor shuts down or is the circuit breaker tripping. Hi, From reading your other posts I would say you should go back in and check the fuel bowl. It shouldn't go dry in just a week or two. You may have a bad fuel line connection or leak. Your generator is only big enough to run a 13K BTU AC or microwave but not both at the same time. It shouldn't have much problem at all with the microwave. I would follow Alan's advise as he knows more about Onan generators then anyone else that I've seen post here. You very well may have varnished up the jets. You should let it run a few minutes before putting any load to it but you shouldn't have to run it 15 minutes. Two or three should be more then enough time to get everything up to speed and working. One other thing you might want to check is if it has an altitude adjustment and it's turned up all the way the wrong way, probably a real long shot but it can't hurt to check. If you want a service manual you can order one from the Onan web site or through their store at Funroads.com. Take care and Happy Campin... RichA "We Get To Soon Olde and To Late Smart" thank you > >the generator motor just stops, like it was turned off. However it starts > >right back up if I turn off the air or Microwave. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > RichA > "We Get To Soon Olde and To Late Smart" >I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it much >but do start and run it monthley. Last check, it starts ok and runs ok but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks Spark Plug Lynn > I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it much > but do start and run it monthley. Last check, it starts ok and runs ok but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks It appears that you probably haven't been running it often enough/long enough to keep fuel varnish from building up in the carburetor. You're getting enough fuel through the main jet to run with no load, but as soon as you put a load on it, there isn't enough fuel flow to keep up. Since it will at least still run, try this: go to an auto parts store and get some carburetor cleaner such as B-12 Chemtool that's made to put in your gas tank. Get about twice as much as the can says to use for the size of your gas tank. Put the carb cleaner in the tank, top up with fresh fuel, then drive around a little to make sure it's well mixed. Start your genset, then put as much load on it as it -will- handle. Run for about an hour, then stop genset and leave sit overnight. Repeat process each following day. You should be able to -slowly- increase the load each day as some of the varnish is cleaned out, and eventually get to the point where it will handle your microwave or roof air. The alternative is to drop the genset and clean or replace the carb. On the Roadtrek's I've seen, you're not going to be able to do this with the genset in place. If you have your dealer do it, it's probably as cheap to have them put on a new carb as to pay labor charges to clean your present one. Once you do get it going, USE it! Onan recommends that, at least once a month, you run it for 2 continuous hours under at least half load. You're NOT going to wear it out - actually, given routine maintenance and regular use, the odds are the genset will still be going strong when the rest of the roadtrek is ready for the wrecking yard. Alan Thank you. I will try that. You do understand that the Gen gets its gas from the main tank? It uses a tube thats located in the main gas tank. So except for the gas in the fule bowl its always fresh as we use the MH as much as the car. I hope doubling the cleaner wont hurt the injectors on the main engine. I have removed the Gen befor. It comes out through the insides. I have also removed the cover inside befor to expose the the Gen. I have a problem with the fuel bowl running dry between running. I replaced a hose last year that was broken. It still takes about 1 min to start it if I leave it sit for a month. > > I have a 93 Roadtrek 21 with an Onan 2.5kw generator. I havent used it > much [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Alan > Thank you. I will try that. You do understand that the Gen gets its gas from > the main tank? Yes. > It uses a tube thats located in the main gas tank. So except > for the gas in the fule bowl its always fresh as we use the MH as much as > the car. Not just what's in the fuel bowl - the fuel pump, filter, and line back to the tank will (or should) have month-old gas. > I hope doubling the cleaner wont hurt the injectors on the main > engine. I have removed the Gen befor. It comes out through the insides. I > have also removed the cover inside befor to expose the the Gen. I have a > problem with the fuel bowl running dry between running. I replaced a hose > last year that was broken. It still takes about 1 min to start it if I leave > it sit for a month. The cleaner won't hurt the injectors. If the fuel bowl is running dry between running, it's NOT normal - you have a problem somewhere. Alan right about the old gas. Yes I assumed that I had a problem, that's when I found the cracked hose on the fuel bowl. I haven't removed the bowl to check again since I replaced it but It takes about 1 min of cranking to get it to start. If I start it every day it starts right up, but if I let it sit for some weeks it again takes a lot of cranking to start. I did run a check on the wiring and found a relay that when energized turns on the fuel pump, but it doesn't get energized until after the generator starts then it stays energized until I shut it off. So if the fuel bowl runs dry it has to pump gas back into the bowl by vacuum until it starts. Unless I manually energies the relay, then it goes right off. I thought it strange that the fuel pump doesn't start until the generator does. > > Thank you. I will try that. You do understand that the Gen gets its gas > from [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Alan > right about the old gas. Yes I assumed that I had a problem, that's when I > found the cracked hose on the fuel bowl. I haven't removed the bowl to check [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the relay, then it goes right off. I thought it strange that the fuel pump > doesn't start until the generator does. Actually, the fuel pump does (or should) run while you are cranking the genset - there's a diode (CR3) that goes from fuse F2 (which is energized when the starter solenoid is engaged) to the fuel pump side of resistor R2. The fuel pump should have approximately 11v thru this diode while the genset is cranking - once the genset starts, it gets about 10v thru relay K2 and resistor R2. The genset can't pump fuel into the float bowl by vacuum unless you hold the choke closed - keep in mind that the bowl is vented into the carb inlet and the governor has the throttle wide open until the genset starts running. Alan Alan: I doubt its the diode (diodes short not open) so something else must me amiss, Ill have to trace the circuit but I don't have a schematic, just my eyes and fingers. I have to draw it as I go. I just know that the relay doesn't get power until the gen starts. Where is the diode and resister physically located? Do you know where I can get a schematic? thank you > > right about the old gas. Yes I assumed that I had a problem, that's when I > > found the cracked hose on the fuel bowl. I haven't removed the bowl to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Alan "diodes short not open" - Nope, sorry, diodes typically go open when they go bad.  SignatureJames Summers > Alan: > I doubt its the diode (diodes short not open) so something else must me [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > > Alan James: No offence but I have been in electronics for about 40 years now and have seen only a few that have blown opened out of thousands. First a diode shorts then if and only if a large amount of current is allowed to flow through the short, they blow open. Normally the fuse in the circuit keeps them from blowing. Almost every bridge, every signal diode and every rectifier I have checked (that went bad) except a few were shorted. First symptom is a blown fuse. Transistor normally short also, they like the diode are a semiconductor junction. Even in a car alternator, they typically short. A power supply blows (open) the fuse because typically the rectifier diodes short and draw excessive current. I have a few here if you would like one, I can mail it to you to check. Here is just a couple examples I found on the web. CTC185 ... Tech found a shorted CR14611, but did not see the burned resistor caused by the shorted diode R14609. This device is located underneath T14600. ... wa6ati.com/DTV307.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages Re: Dave ... Also if the regulator has a shorted diode circuit in it it will still read like the regulator is charging the battery( 13.8 or better ) but too much AC voltage ... www.visi.com/~weibergc/vtwin/messages/1576.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages JD L120 Electrical ... Bill_Kapaun said: "If the diode(s) was/were shorted, I'd expect to see a strong AC" I had a shorted diode on my wifes gilson. With ... forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ tractor/msg0223071018338.html - 25k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] Film-Tech File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat ... ignition. A shorted diode will trip the circuit breaker (at the wall or in a Console Distribution Panel) protecting the AC input line. ... www.film-tech.com/manuals/STRFXPS.pdf - Similar pages > "diodes short not open" - Nope, sorry, diodes typically go open when they go > bad. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > > > > > Alan > Alan: > I doubt its the diode (diodes short not open) so something else must me [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > thank you I don't have the manual here at home to check location - this is going by a schematic I keep by the computer (one of a bunch from one of the Onan training classes I've had). Now - I'm assuming that your Microlite is spec A or B (2.8KVFA 12345A or B) as beginning with spec C all control components are on a circuit board. The relay that only activates when it's running is K2 - the start disconnect relay - coil is fed by 120vac from genset output. When running, the 12vdc comes from fuse F1 to terminal 5 of K2, then from terminal 3 to terminal 30 of K5 - the stop relay - then from terminal 87a of K5 to terminal 1 of R2 - ballast resistor - then from terminal 2 of R2 to the positive terminal of the fuel pump. Two diodes are fed from fuse F2, which is energized only when cranking. CR1 feeds to the junction of K5 terminal 87a and R2 terminal 1. Voltage from this point feeds the coil of K3 - the run relay - which opens normally closed contacts to unground the magneto and allow ignition, and then goes on to pin 6 of your remote connector to run the indicator lamp and hourmeter in the remote. CR3 feeds to the junction of R2 terminal 2 and the lead going to the fuel pump, and provides voltage to the fuel pump while cranking (while there would be voltage at this point anyway because of CR1, there's not enough after the diode drop and the resistor drop to reliably start the fuel pump). If your genset is NOT spec A or B, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up a schematic for the control board. Alan Alan: Thanks for the info, Ill check it out when I get time. I appreciate it. Model number 2.8KV Fa 26100B Larry > > Alan: > > I doubt its the diode (diodes short not open) so something else must [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Alan >> Alan: >> I doubt its the diode (diodes short not open) so something else must me [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Alan Alan, I have a Onan microlite 2.5 LP model that is giving me headaches. Are you still able to answer questions regarding this model? I am looking for any help I can get because the Onan tech has given up on it. Thanks Ron One last 'maybe' to check.... are you letting it warm up adequately before applying the electrical load? I've got a 2002 Chevy RT Popular with the 2.8 Onan and 12,000 Btu heat pump. The A/C will bog the Onan down and kill it if the A/C is turned on right after starting the generator. Once the Onan is warmed up for 3-4 minutes, no problem, tho' even warm it won't run the A/C & microwave at the same time. I don't think it's supposed to be able to do that, tho'. Jim,, "Entropy never sleeps; do y'all?" The above address is invalid; send email to fesser at same domain name. http://community.webtv.net/IronDuff/SpringBreak http://community.webtv.net/a968/ContinentalDivide http://community.webtv.net/a968/TennentMountain I let it run for about 2 min but maybe today I will let it run 15 min and try again. Ill let you know . Thanks > One last 'maybe' to check.... are you letting it warm up adequately > before applying the electrical load? I've got a 2002 Chevy RT Popular [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > http://community.webtv.net/a968/ContinentalDivide > http://community.webtv.net/a968/TennentMountain Well I let it run for about 30 min and tried the Microwave and it ran ok. I then tried the Air conditioned but its too cold to get it to come on. So I have to wait on that. However that may have cleared the trouble. Your right though you cant run them both at the same time. thanks > I let it run for about 2 min but maybe today I will let it run 15 min and > try again. Ill let you know . [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > http://community.webtv.net/a968/ContinentalDivide > > http://community.webtv.net/a968/TennentMountain > Well I let it run for about 30 min and tried the Microwave and it ran ok. I > then tried the Air conditioned but its too cold to get it to come on. So I > have to wait on that. However that may have cleared the trouble. Your right > though you cant run them both at the same time. You can force the air conditioner t-stat to switch on the compressor by turning on your funrnace and heating up the inside of your rig. Another quick and dirty load test would be to plug into the outlet a high load item such as an electric heater while running everything else in your rig that uses electricity. Re: generator question Group: alt.rv Date: Sat, Apr 3, 2004, 9:38pm (EDT-1) From: jporter@netwalk.com (Jon Porter) You can force the air conditioner t-stat to switch on the compressor by turning on your furnace and heating up the inside of your rig. (snip) ++++++++++++ John wrote: May not be a good idea, the lower the ambient temperature, the better chance of "slugging" your compressor on start up and that is not good. today it was warm enough to try the air. I started it then waited about 5 min and turned on the air, first the fan which worked then the compressor, dead stop. So now I have to start looking. I don't see the fuel filter as a main concern, since in the Roadtrek the fuel gets to the Gen through a tube that stands upright in the tank, so it gets surface fuel, not bottom fuel. I will first get some carb cleaner and run that through. thanks all Re: generator question Group: alt.rv Date: Sat, Apr 3, 2004, 9:38pm (EDT-1) From: jporter@netwalk.com (Jon Porter) You can force the air conditioner t-stat to switch on the compressor by turning on your furnace and heating up the inside of your rig. (snip) ++++++++++++ John wrote: May not be a good idea, the lower the ambient temperature, the better chance of "slugging" your compressor on start up and that is not good. |
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