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Car Forum / Saab Cars / March 2004

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Should I buy this 1992 9000 Turbo with 168,000 miles on it for ?600

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mark wilson - 23 Mar 2004 23:45 GMT
You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
it.
I've not driven it but the owner assures me that it super smooth and the
advert on E-bay backs this claim up. the price i'm about to go with is ?600
approx.  would you consider it worth it?

Thanks from an MG Driver in need of a bigger car.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 00:17 GMT
> You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks from an MG Driver in need of a bigger car.

Personally I wouldn't buy a car without driving it - but that's just me.

Sounds like good value. You need to find out what work it's had in the
last 3-4 years, because this will tell you a lot about what you could
expect to do in the next couple of years.

But they're great cars, so definitely worth a look.

Signature

Grunff

mark wilson - 24 Mar 2004 00:36 GMT
many thanks for that, the car has been described as superb and i've got a
hunch that the seller won't shaft me, anyhow if i get there and its no where
near as described I'll walk away from it.  your opinion is very much
appreciated.  Thanks again.  I'll let you know how i get on!!
> > You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> > advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
> > it.
> > I've not driven it but the owner assures me that it super smooth and the
> > advert on E-bay backs this claim up. the price i'm about to go with is
?600
> > approx.  would you consider it worth it?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> But they're great cars, so definitely worth a look.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 00:45 GMT
> many thanks for that, the car has been described as superb and i've got a
> hunch that the seller won't shaft me, anyhow if i get there and its no where
> near as described I'll walk away from it.  your opinion is very much
> appreciated.  Thanks again.  I'll let you know how i get on!!

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Signature

Grunff

James Sweet - 24 Mar 2004 00:55 GMT
> You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks from an MG Driver in need of a bigger car.

I'd drive it first, but for ?600 I dunno how you could lose, that's what,
$1200? I know used cars are cheaper in the UK, but still, you'd be hard
pressed to find *any* dependable car in presentable condition around here
for that little. I'd expect a '92 9000T in excellent condition to fetch 3
times that.
mark wilson - 24 Mar 2004 01:21 GMT
Thank you James, but i thought everything in the states was cheaper than the
uk?

> > You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> > advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> for that little. I'd expect a '92 9000T in excellent condition to fetch 3
> times that.
James Sweet - 24 Mar 2004 02:07 GMT
> Thank you James, but i thought everything in the states was cheaper than the
> uk?

Cars sure aren't, I'm in the Volvo group as well and whenever a car is
advertised for sale someone from the UK always chimes in to snicker at the
price, I dunno how the prices of new cars compares but used ones seem to go
for a fraction of what they do in the states.
MeatballTurbo - 25 Mar 2004 08:10 GMT
> Cars sure aren't, I'm in the Volvo group as well and whenever a car is
> advertised for sale someone from the UK always chimes in to snicker at the
> price, I dunno how the prices of new cars compares but used ones seem to go
> for a fraction of what they do in the states.

depreciation in the UK is terrible. Depending on the car, a new one can
drop upto a thrid of it's value the minute it is registered and driven
out of the showroom on the road.

For most people, a car of 3 years old or less is very desirable, much
older than you are broke, and need a poverty car, unless you are either
into special brands that last well, or have prestige, are into classics,
or are very young and getting insured in a newer car will cost you more
than the car.

Me I like the older and simpler. They don't have to be performance cars
but it helps (my other fave car marque of choice, until about about 6
years ago only produced very low power engines, with the most powerful
standard model having about a third of the BHP of the 900, but their
older RWS ones where a hoot to drive (No, not VW)). I like to get to
work on the engine when minor things go wrong, or to be able to see/hear
what is going on to help identify faults I can't fix. Modern cars with
big plastic covers, and semi sealed engine areas don't work for me, plus
an engine is a work of art, and I lke to see what I can and hear what I
can appreciate the designers and engineers craftsmanship in action.
Signature

Carl Robson
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 01:30 GMT
> You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
> it.
> I've not driven it but the owner assures me that it super smooth and the
> advert on E-bay backs this claim up. the price i'm about to go with is ?600

Just a few things to bear in mind:-

Head gaskets tend to fail @ around 100k miles.  Might go longer, might
be about to fail.  DIY job is ok but look to 400 quid for a garage job.

Timing chains, parts costs ?600 from Saab dealer prices, another ?400
labour on top.  Unless for ?600 you just figure that if they go bang,
that's the end of the car.

Washer bottles have a habit of splitting at the rear support rod, pretty
easy to fix with a bit of time.

Other things can go wrong too but those first two are the show stoppers
that I think need bearing in mind.

I bought a 9000 2.0t for ?1200 and the only reason was I wanted a car,
*any* car, next day for less than ?2k and it needed to have aircon.

I ended up with a bloody good Saab and then went in search of an Aero so
now I have two, be warned they're addictive, one is NOT enough! :)

David.
mark wilson - 24 Mar 2004 02:12 GMT
Timing chain bit seems scary at ?600 just for parts whoa!!!

Cheers for that it's nice that you told me beforehand.  it doesn't put me
off tho' just gives me better information on how to weigh up what i'm about
to do ;-)

'Respect'

> > You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> > advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> David.
James Sweet - 24 Mar 2004 02:23 GMT
> Timing chain bit seems scary at ?600 just for parts whoa!!!
>
> Cheers for that it's nice that you told me beforehand.  it doesn't put me
> off tho' just gives me better information on how to weigh up what i'm about
> to do ;-)

Yikes, the *parts* are $600? Is that from the dealer or is there a cheaper
place to get it?
David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 07:35 GMT
> Yikes, the *parts* are $600? Is that from the dealer or is there a cheaper
> place to get it?

No, not dollars, pounds sterling!

I did say main dealer pricing though, I know, I have the invoice.

Having said that, you can get kits from Partsforsaabs, timing chains:-

http://www.partsforsaabs.com/default.php?cPath=105_118

and balance shaft kits:-

http://www.partsforsaabs.com/default.php?cPath=105_286

So you can do it for much cheaper than genuine items if you wish.

Some people just roll on the split link timing chain by attaching it to
the end of the old chain and then pulling a new chain through but this
is only valid *if* the sprockets and tensioner are in good condition.  
If you've ever tried riding a pushbike which has a new chain on old
sprockets you'll understand why.  The chain and sprockets wear together
and you end up with a jumping chain.

Secondly, this doesn't really permit inspection of the other worn parts
and does nothing about a worn balance shaft chain either.

Just listen out for a rattling chain when cold, see if it goes away when
hot and if it doesn't, just either be prepared to fix it or run it and
hope.

Same for cylinder head but if you do either of these jobs, because of
the design of the engine, it's worth doing both at the same time as you
have best access to the chains with the head off and if you try to do
just the chains, there's a chance of damaging the head gasket.

David.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 09:47 GMT
> Timing chain bit seems scary at £600 just for parts whoa!!!

They never, ever, *ever* break (or as good as). Traul through this
group's archive, and any other Saab related froum archives. Count the
number of cases of a failed chain (the actual number of cases, not the
number of mentions!).

Signature

Grunff

David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 10:38 GMT
> > Timing chain bit seems scary at ?600 just for parts whoa!!!
>
> They never, ever, *ever* break (or as good as). Traul through this
> group's archive, and any other Saab related froum archives. Count the
> number of cases of a failed chain (the actual number of cases, not the
> number of mentions!).

Broken chain?

http://www.saabnet.com/aas/1999.W21/1284316820.573700.html

So someone thinks they break but yes, from the forums that I've seen,
people aren't falling over themselves to report broken chains but is
that because the typical people that frequent forums are the same ones
that are alert to wear and change them anyway?

I once went to a pilots safety evening and a statistic was bandied about
that pilots who had attended a safety evening were less likely to be
involved in accidents but I'd argue that the pilots who are of the
mindset to think about safety and learn are the ones who aren't going to
be cavalier with life anyway.

David.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 10:44 GMT
> So someone thinks they break but yes, from the forums that I've seen,
> people aren't falling over themselves to report broken chains but is
> that because the typical people that frequent forums are the same ones
> that are alert to wear and change them anyway?

No, really, they don't break very often at all. They get very noisy
before they break, for quite a long time, so people do something about it.

Signature

Grunff

David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 16:27 GMT
> No, really, they don't break very often at all. They get very noisy
> before they break, for quite a long time, so people do something about it.

So they do break then?  :)

I have a very noisy one, in fact on my 9000 2.0t, the garage showed me
the sideways play and all the chain running gear whilst it was still in
the car.  They allow a certain degree of sideways play, mine was well
past that and the chain tensioner was very grooved, beyond what they'd
recommend.

Should it be ignored and left to chance or changed?  That's the
question.

I had mine changed and I'll do my Aero myself to save a whole wodge.

David.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 17:35 GMT
> So they do break then?  :)

Everything breaks - it's just that there are many, many things which are
more likely to break.

> I have a very noisy one, in fact on my 9000 2.0t, the garage showed me
> the sideways play and all the chain running gear whilst it was still in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Should it be ignored and left to chance or changed?  That's the
> question.

The real question is why did it stretch this much? Unless you car has
300k miles on it, there is something wrong. The usual problem is poor
oil pressure/flow to the tensioner and the chain itself.

I think if I had a chain that was stretched beyond the tensioner's max
extension, I'd change it. But I'd want to dig a little to find out how
it got like that.

Signature

Grunff

David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 21:07 GMT
> Everything breaks - it's just that there are many, many things which are
> more likely to break.

I know, I was just picking up on your "they never ever ever break"
comment.  If I felt that, I wouldn't be thinking about changing them on
my car. :)

> The real question is why did it stretch this much? Unless you car has
> 300k miles on it, there is something wrong. The usual problem is poor
> oil pressure/flow to the tensioner and the chain itself.

Dunno, car was at 120k miles, I bought it at 112k.  Some past history
but of course I don't know the full story.  Oddly, I never thought the
chain was that noisey.  At least it wasn't compared to my bag of nails
that attempts to be a chain in my Aero.

> I think if I had a chain that was stretched beyond the tensioner's max
> extension, I'd change it. But I'd want to dig a little to find out how
> it got like that.

Yes and I came across an article the other day on sticking a ruler down
through the cam cover to the guide to measure the chain stretch.

David.
Grunff - 24 Mar 2004 21:15 GMT
> I know, I was just picking up on your "they never ever ever break"
> comment.  If I felt that, I wouldn't be thinking about changing them on
> my car. :)

You missed out the (or as good as) at the end of that line. :-)

> Yes and I came across an article the other day on sticking a ruler down
> through the cam cover to the guide to measure the chain stretch.

Certainly worth a good bit of investigation.

Signature

Grunff

ROBERT JOHNSON - 25 Mar 2004 03:16 GMT
My timing chain Broke on the PA. turnpike, no warning about 125000
miles, by the time we were finished with the whole bit the bill was
$3600.00.  1992 9000CD. Had to tow it 100 miles to the Saab garage.
Timing chain,counterbalance chains and sprockets,guides,valves bent,did
the water pump also.  Anyway that's my experience with timing chains.

Bob
Dave Hinz - 25 Mar 2004 03:48 GMT
> My timing chain Broke on the PA. turnpike, no warning about 125000
> miles

That makes a total of 1, now, that I've heard of _breaking_.  Did it
make noise as a warning, or what were the symptoms?  Did you get the
chain back to look at, can you describe the fractures in the metal?

Did they give a cause of the chain breaking?  Belts I can see, but
I've never heard of a Saab timing chain going before.

Thanks for any data,
Dave Hinz
ROBERT JOHNSON - 25 Mar 2004 21:26 GMT
Timing chain broke.- No warning,never had any noise.   Yes, I saw the
chain and the side plate broke. Did notice that all the sprockets groves
were worn quite deep and all guides worn bad.  The mechanics thought
that oil was not getting into the head well enough through the oil
holes,some blockage they said.  I bought the car with 77,000 miles on it
and I know the previous owners went by the Saab 1992  book and changed
the oil every 10,000 miles.  I changed it sooner but kind of think that
may have lead to premature blockage and wear.

I also have a Griffen Edition and the previous owner and Saab people
changed that chain due to noisy at about 90,000 miles.

I never had a metal chain brake on some of my American cars.  Rubber one
broke on a 1.8 L engine Pontiac that I had.  That also left me stranded.  

Anyway that' some of my expreriences.

Bob
James Sweet - 25 Mar 2004 22:05 GMT
> Timing chain broke.- No warning,never had any noise.   Yes, I saw the
> chain and the side plate broke. Did notice that all the sprockets groves
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the oil every 10,000 miles.  I changed it sooner but kind of think that
> may have lead to premature blockage and wear.

Yikes! Every 10k miles? On cars that I've used non-synthetic I always change
the oil at 3-4k, maybe 5k max for cars like my mom's that don't get driven
hard at all. On my Turbo I run synthetic with a quality filter and change
both every 5k, that's how you get 250-300k out of an engine. Manufacture
recommendations will get you through the warranty, then it's about shot.
Johannes H Andersen - 25 Mar 2004 22:12 GMT
> > Timing chain broke.- No warning,never had any noise.   Yes, I saw the
> > chain and the side plate broke. Did notice that all the sprockets groves
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> both every 5k, that's how you get 250-300k out of an engine. Manufacture
> recommendations will get you through the warranty, then it's about shot.

Just changed oil/filter at 4k as I judged the color was dark. After changing,
the engine was noticeable quieter and had less camshaft noise at the start.
Oil: Halfords 5W/40 fully synthetic.
David Taylor - 26 Mar 2004 00:52 GMT
> Yikes! Every 10k miles? On cars that I've used non-synthetic I always change
> the oil at 3-4k, maybe 5k max for cars like my mom's that don't get driven
> hard at all. On my Turbo I run synthetic with a quality filter and change
> both every 5k, that's how you get 250-300k out of an engine. Manufacture
> recommendations will get you through the warranty, then it's about shot.

Well, one of the Saab sites suggests that a) US oil is inferior to that
sold in Europe, even the same brand and b) I can't help but think that
the US oil companies are quite happy to "condition" customers to believe
that 3 to 4k oil changes are the order of the day.

http://www.saab9000.com/servicing/servicing.html

:)

David.
Grunff - 26 Mar 2004 01:06 GMT
> Well, one of the Saab sites suggests that a) US oil is inferior to that
> sold in Europe, even the same brand and b) I can't help but think that
> the US oil companies are quite happy to "condition" customers to believe
> that 3 to 4k oil changes are the order of the day.

Gotta say, I'm inclined to agree there. I change my oil evey 6-9k miles,
depending on usage and whether I feel like it. I use mineral in the
non-turbos, and cheap semi-synth in the turbos (usually Total, but
whatever the motor factor has in is fine). I've done many, many
thousands of miles on high mileage engines, both turbo and na, with no
problems.

Signature

Grunff

James Sweet - 26 Mar 2004 03:55 GMT
> > Well, one of the Saab sites suggests that a) US oil is inferior to that
> > sold in Europe, even the same brand and b) I can't help but think that
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> thousands of miles on high mileage engines, both turbo and na, with no
> problems.

Well don't forget that this post started with someone who had a premature
engine failure after lengthy oil changes. Oil is cheap, engines are
expensive, IMO it just doesn't pay to go long intervals. Of course driving
conditions have a great effect on oil life, I do mostly city driving, if I
ran my oil 10k that'd be around a year between changes. You can tell an
engine that hasn't had frequent oil changes by opening it up, they often
have sludge built up all over, by changing the oil fairly regularly the
engine stays nice and clean.

That said, I would agree that the 3k or 3 months pushed by the oil industry
is too frequent for 95% of all conditions.
Dexter J - 26 Mar 2004 04:31 GMT
Salutations:

> "Grunff" <grunff@ixxa.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> --

> That said, I would agree that the 3k or 3 months pushed by the oil
> industry
> is too frequent for 95% of all conditions.

My take is that it may come down to setting up a proper gauge set in the
change pocket for me.

We are going to sell off the NG 900 I picked up this winter having fixed
several things that should recoup it's value at auction. Not because it's
rotten or anything - surprisingly sporty actually - but because we still
wish to pursue a proper 9000 restoration.

Anyway - one of the key items I intend to get dropped in with my freshened
and ported 2.0 engine from the last 9000 is a very good set of engine
gauges including a block oil pressure gauge as well as both oil and
transmission temperature gauges. At the end of the day, a high quality
gauge set (and not some naughty poser unit) will alert you to declining
effectiveness in you lubrication system long before your ears and nose
will.

Some of my motor homing buddies have set their machines up so that they
would be the envy of most Boeing pilots and its amazing how early they can
address wear and tear across their units simply by paying attention to the
readings.

One fellow I know has set his up with hub temps, pressure and temps across
all fluids (including fuel and hydraulics), tranny temp, pressure and flow
rate, exhaust and intake temps and pressures, tire pressure across all six
wheels as well as charging AND draw loading by circuit. He's hoping to
move to port injection from the old Rochester and intends to add a monitor
for ignition and injection sequencing so he can adjust them on the fly.

Anyway - a decent oil pressure gauge and an engine hour clock will go a
long way if you are trying to figure out when people should do fluids -
mileage is actually not really a good way to judge.

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Fred W. - 26 Mar 2004 18:52 GMT
> > Yikes! Every 10k miles? On cars that I've used non-synthetic I always change
> > the oil at 3-4k, maybe 5k max for cars like my mom's that don't get driven
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> http://www.saab9000.com/servicing/servicing.html

And now we come to appreciate why cars depreciate faster in England than in
the US...

They don't change their oil often enough.  No way non-synthetic oil is not
completely useless before 10k miles,  Kilometers, maybe...

-Fred W
Grunff - 26 Mar 2004 20:54 GMT
> They don't change their oil often enough.  No way non-synthetic oil is not
> completely useless before 10k miles,  Kilometers, maybe...

Yes way dude!

My 86 T16 has been running on mineral for the last 18 years. I have all
previous history for the car. Changes were done typically at ~12k miles
(this is normal in the UK). I've been changing the oil (I use
semi-synth) since 110k miles a little more frequently. Now has 150k
miles on engine. I recently did the headgasket, and the bores look like
*new*, the camshaft+bearings look pretty damn good, and the chain is
just lovely.

Signature

Grunff

LauraK - 26 Mar 2004 22:50 GMT
>> They don't change their oil often enough.  No way non-synthetic oil is not
>> completely useless before 10k miles,  Kilometers, maybe...

Depends on what kind of driving you're doing.
When I was traveling a lot, 3,000 miles in a week was normal. I had the Lincoln
Mark VIII and was changing the oil very three months -- which would be about
10-12,000 miles.
When I was living in a city and doing all city driving in econoboxes, I changed
it every oil every 4-6 months -- usually 2-3,000 miles.
Stop and go driving is a lot harder on an engine than cruising at 80-90 for 6-8
hours.
The Saab is getting an oil change every 3,000 miles, unless I've done a long
trip in there and put 1,000 miles on it in a weekend.

laurak@madmousergraphics.com
http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
Dexter J - 27 Mar 2004 04:48 GMT
Salutations:

>>> They don't change their oil often enough.  No way non-synthetic oil is
>>> not
>>> completely useless before 10k miles,  Kilometers, maybe...

> Depends on what kind of driving you're doing.
> laurak@madmousergraphics.com
> http://www.madmousergraphics.com
> web design, print design, photography

Actually the difference is this. Except for last summer - most of England
and Europe is on average 5-10 degrees cooler than most populated parts of
North America and there in is one of the problems with mileage or time
based oil change schedules. I maintain that the correct answer is to
acquire an accurate set of oil and transmission gauges and pay occasional
attention to them as you go.

Granted - for the most part oil thins and/or carries particulate more in
step with engine condition and tune than driving style. However in terms
defining a wise 3/6 month or thousand mile interval - attributable oil
degradation is importantly related to environmental conditions in which
your respective car operates seasonally.

For example - you run a high mileage engine in Europe where it is often
damp and not so warm. Your oil thins at a greater rate than certain north
American SAAB brothers or sisters because of hydroscopic action in the
block and fuel blow by through the seals and rings on cold starts. Thin
your juice enough and eventually the baby burps a bearing one cold morning.

For our American cousins in Texas, where the average ground temperature is
much higher and air much dryer, oils tend to revert to a more granular
state over time - which more readily presents the possibly of catastrophic
failure under load and heat. There is more ongoing evaporation of unspent
fuels and water vapor in the block - but they face the problem of
concentrating carbon levels as the oil itself evaporates with the vapor
and unspent fuel.

Fine carbon in an increasingly fuel and humidity rich environment acts as
a bit of a lubricant - but viscosity is thinning at lower temperatures and
pressures. Almost the opposite is the case in a dry, high temp environment
where viscosity is increasing at lower temperatures as more concentrated
carbon crystal is in movement across your bearing faces. Both oils behave
much the same way at temperature, but both wearing the engine differently
as the clock ticks over.

Brother Grunff's '86 T16 looks the way it does under the cam cover because
it is changed as indicated by the actual condition of the oil, no doubt
careful attention to warm up at start and a generally good 'Carma'(tm) for
helping out so many folks on this NG. For him, the semi-syth makes sense
because he is more likely to pass it through the main seal as he will be
thinning his oil more quickly than brother Fred.

However - brother Fred isn't thinning out as quickly as brother Grunff and
his seals are more likely swelling than cracking - his greater concern is
the potential for surface failure in the block. Synthetic is *very* good
at holding it's set viscosity into extremely high temperatures - but no
better at keeping larger carbon crystals from forming in the fluid or
handling evaporation demands as dictated by the condition of his engine.

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier - I'm getting my '89 block prepared and I
am searching carefully for a really accurate set of gauges for oil
pressure as well as transmission and oil temperatures. I'm also fitting an
engine hour clock under the hood when it finds a home.

Much is often made of the social 'effects' of marketing and my take is
that much of the wisdom related to automobiles is misplaced. Horsepower
isn't really as important to most folks as Torque - mileage can be
important when you are discussing chassis issues, but engines and
electrics are related to how many hours, in what conditions and how
closely the maintenance is adhered too.

Lubricants and cooling fluids, natural or otherwise, are entirely subject
to application. Thusly - I still think the best hope anyone has of getting
it right is to have realtime monitoring in place. If there is any
improvement that I would like to see focused on myself - it would not be
in new oils - but in more effective filter, breather and monitoring
technology.

Sorry for the great length - pet subject of mine..

Signature

J Dexter - webmaster - http://www.dexterdyne.org/
all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads
no news no phone in - RealAudio 8+ Required - all the Time

Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day
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David Taylor - 27 Mar 2004 11:01 GMT
> And now we come to appreciate why cars depreciate faster in England than in
> the US...

Not evely closely the reason. :)
Fred W. - 28 Mar 2004 16:01 GMT
> > And now we come to appreciate why cars depreciate faster in England than in
> > the US...
>
> Not evely closely the reason. :)

...it was said tongue in cheek.

-Fred W
David Taylor - 28 Mar 2004 18:03 GMT
> > Not evely closely the reason. :)
>
> ...it was said tongue in cheek.

Hence my smiley too! :)
Robert Johnson - 31 Mar 2004 14:34 GMT
Thanks for all the discussions on oil. Looks like I am the only one with
a broken timing chain. At the time the timing chain broke I had 10-30
Pennzoi in and one of those Ultra Delco oil filters in. There was a nice
study in the Nines book, North American Saab Club, about how well those
oil filters are so I put one in.  I don't think these were the problems,
I think the oil passages were mostly blocked from the previous lengthy
oil changes. I think the car was mostly driven in the Philadelphia,
City, area before I purchased it.  Anyway I perfer Pennsylvania oil as I
think it has a paraffin base vrs. Texas asphalt base oil.  The asphalt
base oil seems to break down much sooner then the paraffin base.
Any other comments, they also say the GTX is a good oil.

Bob
Johannes H Andersen - 24 Mar 2004 12:37 GMT
> You guys seem to know what you're on about here so I wonder if you might
> advise me regarding jumping in and buying a 9000 turbo with 168,000 miles on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks from an MG Driver in need of a bigger car.

£600 isn't much, but the price is the lesser problem since you're likely
to spend some money to get it up to scratch. Don't for a moment expect
that the previous owner have sorted out all the problems for you. Much
more likely that he has reached a stage where he want to unload the car
rather than fixing it.

Anyway, the 9000 is a fantastic car when it is right. But which 9000
model is it exactly? The 9000 CS/CSE was introduced in 1992, possibly
available autumn 1991, so '9000 Turbo' sounds a bit odd for a 1992.
David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 16:33 GMT
> available autumn 1991, so '9000 Turbo' sounds a bit odd for a 1992.

Why odd?  One of mine is a 9000 CD Turbo, maybe he just left off the CD
bit?

Look, here's a "Saab 9000 Turbo", way overpriced too.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2468407104
&category=18263
Johannes H Andersen - 24 Mar 2004 17:15 GMT
> > available autumn 1991, so '9000 Turbo' sounds a bit odd for a 1992.
>
> Why odd?  One of mine is a 9000 CD Turbo, maybe he just left off the CD
> bit?

OK, I just thought that some pre CS/CD cars were called 9000 Turbo.
 
> Look, here's a "Saab 9000 Turbo", way overpriced too.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2468407104
> &category=18263

Yes, and what is the mileage? And why are the wheels blanked out? What
is a 'hybrid turbo'?
James Sweet - 24 Mar 2004 19:59 GMT
> > Look, here's a "Saab 9000 Turbo", way overpriced too.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Yes, and what is the mileage? And why are the wheels blanked out? What
> is a 'hybrid turbo'?

They're not blanked out, they're dark colored aftermarket rims, probably
quite expensive. Generally a hybrid turbo is a T3 turbine with a T4
compressor, allows a lot more flow without as much lag as a full T4. From
the picture the car looks nice, and I'm sure they've put a lot more money
into it than the selling price, still I'd be hesitant to buy someone else's
customized car.
Johannes H Andersen - 24 Mar 2004 20:22 GMT
> > > Look, here's a "Saab 9000 Turbo", way overpriced too.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> into it than the selling price, still I'd be hesitant to buy someone else's
> customized car.

I would never buy a car through Ebay. I would need much more information,
such as mileage, VIN and car reg for a full HPI check, plus my own visual
inspection.
James Sweet - 25 Mar 2004 05:22 GMT
> I would never buy a car through Ebay. I would need much more information,
> such as mileage, VIN and car reg for a full HPI check, plus my own visual
> inspection.

Well when you buy a car through ebay the idea is you go test drive it first,
unless it's a particularly good deal then who cares, just assume it to be a
project. My dad bought one a few years ago, he went and drove it and thought
it was ok aside from some work it needed, bid and won it for around $800 and
it's been a good car.
Dave Hinz - 25 Mar 2004 13:39 GMT
>> I would never buy a car through Ebay. I would need much more information,
>> such as mileage, VIN and car reg for a full HPI check, plus my own visual
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> unless it's a particularly good deal then who cares, just assume it to be a
> project.

Check the seller rating.  If he's got a rating of, say, 5, probably
be very careful.  If he's one of the online guys who have sold thousands
of similar cars, and the feedback shows thousands of happy people saying
he's honest and upright, then the risk is pretty low indeed.  Some car
dealers out there prefer to sell on eBay and do it many cars a day.

Read those feedbacks!

Dave Hinz
David Taylor - 24 Mar 2004 21:04 GMT
> Yes, and what is the mileage? And why are the wheels blanked out? What
> is a 'hybrid turbo'?

Think they're hiding something? :)
 
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