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Car Forum / Saab Cars / June 2004BMW or Saab Convertible
Help ! I am considering the purchase of either a BMW or Saab convertible, the car is to be used for work - about 20,000miles pa. I am looking to spend about ?10-12,000. My reasoning being that we have main family car, so this will mainly be for me, I want a car I want to get in and drive.It also seems that depreciation wise convertibles seem to hold their value better, and even with silly mileages on, provided in good condition can always be resold. The car must have air/climate, and I intend keeping for at least 5 years, and so will put on about another 100,000 miles. Questions: 1/ which will be most fun/relaxing to drive? 2/ Which will take the miles the best ? 3/ As I'll probably be looking at a 318 or 2.0lpt Saab what sort of fuel/servicing costs am I looking at? Any Help/advice gratefully received. Tony > Help ! > > I am considering the purchase of either a BMW or Saab convertible, the car > is to be used for work - about 20,000miles pa. I am looking to spend about > £10-12,000. Seems like a reasonable price range. I've got a 1999 Saab 9-5, with the 2.3 Litre LPT engine, enjoy it greatly. I put on about 30,000 miles a year, and expect to keep it for ten years - an unremarkable and totally reasonable mileage expectation for this engine, by the way. > 1/ which will be most fun/relaxing to drive? Hard to say. Try 'em both! > 2/ Which will take the miles the best ? They're both damn fine cars, with the same sort of engineering going in to both. I'm biased towards Saab, but it's subjective I'm sure. > 3/ As I'll probably be looking at a 318 or 2.0lpt Saab what sort of > fuel/servicing costs am I looking at? I've had only consumables (gas/tires/oil), scheduled checkups (30K, 60K, 90K miles), and a serpentine belt and tensioner as expenses on my Saab. Last one went 247,000 miles with equally unremarkable service history. > Any Help/advice gratefully received. Sounds like you'll be getting a lot of windshield time, and as you're saying, it's important that it's done in a comfortable, fun, safe car. If snow is part of your world, you might give serious consideration to the front wheel drive of the Saab. I can't see you being unhappy, at all, if you select the Saab. Dave Hinz Check insurance costs, too. That may make a difference. Saab seats are incredibly confortable, more so than BMW, at least I think so. laurak@madmousergraphics.com http://www.madmousergraphics.com web design, print design, photography > Help ! > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 1/ which will be most fun/relaxing to drive? The Saab should be more relaxing & the BMW more fun. > 3/ As I'll probably be looking at a 318 or 2.0lpt Saab what sort of > fuel/servicing costs am I looking at? The BMW will probably give slightly better fuel mileage. > Any Help/advice gratefully received. The real issue is your preference for front wheel or rear wheel drive - so you need to test drive both. Tom > The Saab should be more relaxing & the BMW more fun. You can be pretty darned enthusiastic with the Saab too ;) > The BMW will probably give slightly better fuel mileage. My '99 Saab 9-5 with the 2.3Litre LPT engine gets me 27-28MPG in mixed city/highway driving. Not sure how that compares, but I'm not complaining. > The real issue is your preference for front wheel or rear wheel drive - so > you need to test drive both. Yup, and feel how the seats fit you, since you'll spend so much time in 'em. Dave Hinz "apk1" <apk1@ntlworld.com> haute in die Tasten: > Questions: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 3/ As I'll probably be looking at a 318 or 2.0lpt Saab what sort of > fuel/servicing costs am I looking at? 1. The BMW is more fun to drive because it has rear wheel drive and the better gearbox. A 318i is only reccomendable with a manual gearbox, it will be too weak for an Auto. The Saab IMHO has the more comfortable seats and more space in the trunk. 2. no significant difference 3. Take the BMW 320 instead. It has a smooth-as-silk six cylinder engine which you will instantly fall in love with. I do not have figures about Saab fuel consumption, but the BMW engines are very economical. Frank  Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Time Flies Like An Arrow - Fruit Flies Like A Banana Frank Kemper schrieb: > "apk1" <apk1@ntlworld.com> haute in die Tasten: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Frank I drive an saab aero 9000 @250.000km 225HP 365Nm@1800rpm from 0-100km/h in 6,7 Sec. at normal drive I need 10Liter/100km at very heavy drive at racingtrack never over 15Liter/100km.-> that's real fun!!! turbo->torque->fun at all gears but frank is right about the gearbox and the brakdisks are not recommendable for racingpurpose. but try them out! jarod > I drive an saab aero 9000 @250.000km 225HP 365Nm@1800rpm from 0-100km/h > in 6,7 Sec. > at normal drive I need 10Liter/100km I'm pleased with the economy of my Aero too, just done 300 miles @ 41 imp mpg at a pretty steady 70 mph. Oh you poor thing - what a difficult life you have. A little harsh, no? Just because he can afford to have some fun, doesn't mean he needs to throw away his money or not perform any research! Next to a house, this is probably the second most expensive thing that mose people spend their hard earned money on! Deep > Oh you poor thing - what a difficult life you have. Having had a SAAB 900SE 1997 Convertible, a 1999 SAAB 9-3SE convertible. a BMW 2001 330ci convertible and now 1 BMW 2004 M3 convertible, I would only say that I would never buy another Saab, but have already pre-ordered the M4 convertible (whenever it may arrive> Saabs are great cars, but the Beemer has just got that extra refinement in every category. > Help ! > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tony > say that I would never buy another Saab, but have already pre-ordered the M4 > convertible (whenever it may arrive> > Saabs are great cars, but the Beemer has just got that extra refinement in > every category. I thought that on the BMW you had to add a radio as it's not standard fitment? Bear in mind too that he has 12,000 to spend, that's hardly going to bag a new M4 or a 9-5 Aero is it? David. David Taylor <djtaylor@bigfoot.com> haute in die Tasten: > I thought that on the BMW you had to add a radio as it's not standard > fitment? Not necessarily a disadvantage, because so you are free to buy which model you want. I have a Philips radio with disc changer in the trunk. Cost me 200 bucks a few years ago. And given the budget of the OP, he will probably buy a pre-owned car, which will probably already come with a radio. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance Why not even consider a Merc CLK convertible? As a new model came out quite recently prices of the previous W208 might be getting interesting... DAS SignatureFor direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > > say that I would never buy another Saab, but have already pre-ordered the M4 > > convertible (whenever it may arrive> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > David. > > say that I would never buy another Saab, but have already pre-ordered the M4 > > convertible (whenever it may arrive> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I thought that on the BMW you had to add a radio as it's not standard > fitment? A radio has been standard fitment in a BMW for years now (although that still doesn't excuse the niggardly past behaviour of importers). Since 1998 the radios of all BMWs bar the Zs have been built into the dash; and by that time, even European importers were so kind as to specify radios as standard in the Z3 roadster and coupe. > Bear in mind too that he has 12,000 to spend, that's hardly going to bag > a new M4 or a 9-5 Aero is it? It will also get a 320i, 323i or 328i convertible quite easily, although with higher mileages of course. The new coupe will most likely be a 3 series, just as it was with the E30 and E36, and the M variant will retain the M3 badge. I remember this same argument well from 1992 and 1999 :). > A radio has been standard fitment in a BMW for years now (although > that still doesn't excuse the niggardly past behaviour of importers). > Since 1998 the radios of all BMWs bar the Zs have been built into the > dash; and by that time, even European importers were so kind as to > specify radios as standard in the Z3 roadster and coupe. What Z did not have a radio built into the dash? AFAIR every Z3 came with (at least) a radio/casette deck. -Fred W > > A radio has been standard fitment in a BMW for years now (although > > that still doesn't excuse the niggardly past behaviour of importers). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What Z did not have a radio built into the dash? AFAIR every Z3 came with > (at least) a radio/casette deck. All Zs had DIN radios. When I say "built into the dash", I mean a bespoke front panel to match the rest of the dashboard architecture, not a 50mmx180mm hole for you to shoehorn any radio into. BMW used to provide its cars (in some European markets anyway) without a radio. The DIN hole in the dash was covered over with a black blanking panel, giving us lucky, lucky buyers the terrific opportunity to choose our own. Now that every BMW has a bespoke radio (and they are becoming more integrated to the point where the radio controls are simply spread around the dash), it would be unthinkable to provide the car without a radio of some sort. Still, BMW actually managed to succeed in this by selling a £60k CSL without the radio - on the basis that the added weight did the car no good at all. > Having had a SAAB 900SE 1997 Convertible, a 1999 SAAB 9-3SE > convertible. a BMW 2001 330ci convertible and now 1 BMW 2004 M3 > convertible, Geeze, life is hard, huh? > I would only say that I would never buy another Saab, > but have already pre-ordered the M4 convertible (whenever it may > arrive> Saabs are great cars, but the Beemer has just got that > extra refinement in every category. Sadly, Saabs are not as great as they once were. I've driven Saabs for over 15 years, but my current car -- a post-GM 2002 9-5 Aero -- is a huge disappointment on many fronts. It will be my last Saab, unless I decide to look for a good pre-GM 900 turbo or 9000 turbo. Gary Thanks for everyone's comments. Bob, yes you are right with your comment, but I feel I have now got to the stage I can afford something "special", however I am only intending to pay the same as say a year old Mondeo, I intend keeping the car at least another 5 years and putting on at least another 100,000miles, My theory is that either a BM or Saab will still be worth more then than the mondeo ? If that is the case would it really be such an extravagance? And if it can provide some fun in the meantime so much the better. I have driven a couple of Saab's today, a 93 2.0 inj and a 93 2.0 lpt se auto, both very nice, and seemingly well cared for, the LPT having an oil leak from what looked like the head gasket ? this is now the second one I've seen like this is this common ? From driving I was surprised that both seemed to "shudder" more than expected, I am starting to think that the Saab offers better value and is a better passenger car, however the BMW is the "drivers car " ? need to drive a BMW next .... Tony > > Having had a SAAB 900SE 1997 Convertible, a 1999 SAAB 9-3SE > > convertible. a BMW 2001 330ci convertible and now 1 BMW 2004 M3 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Gary > I have driven a couple of Saab's today, a 93 2.0 inj and a 93 2.0 lpt se > auto, Find one with the standard or HOT turbo to get a better feel for it. > both very nice, and seemingly well cared for, the LPT having an oil > leak from what looked like the head gasket ? this is now the second one I've > seen like this is this common ? Not that I've noticed, nothing that drips to the pavement anyway. > From driving I was surprised that both > seemed to "shudder" more than expected, I am starting to think that the Saab > offers better value and is a better passenger car, however the BMW is the > "drivers car " ? need to drive a BMW next .... Driving a non-turbo and a light-presure turbo isn't going to give you the full example of a higher performance Saab. <snip> > > From driving I was surprised that both > > seemed to "shudder" more than expected, I am starting to think that the Saab [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Driving a non-turbo and a light-presure turbo isn't going to give you > the full example of a higher performance Saab. Don't know full extent of truth in it, but I was led to believe that the SAAB 9.3 is built around the UK vauxhall Vectra's floorpan, if that is the case then I shudder to think how it handles (Unless SAAB have seriously changed the suspension) as the vectra is about the worst driving experience car that I ever owned. Best way to describe it was as if the rear end just wasn't part of the same vehicle that your steering wheel was controlling. Seriously underdamped at the rear, even with replacement shocks that were uprated from standard. It was like a floppy blancmange on ice, with a hangover! If the above is true re. the saab's floorpan origins then I'd go for the BMW myself. Badger. > Don't know full extent of truth in it, but I was led to believe that the > SAAB 9.3 is built around the UK vauxhall Vectra's floorpan, if that is the > case then I shudder to think how it handles (Unless SAAB have seriously > changed the suspension) They have, dramatically so. > as the vectra is about the worst driving experience > car that I ever owned. Best way to describe it was as if the rear end just > wasn't part of the same vehicle that your steering wheel was controlling. > Seriously underdamped at the rear, even with replacement shocks that were > uprated from standard. It was like a floppy blancmange on ice, with a > hangover! Drive one; you'll know instantly it's not just a "change the interior and rebadge it" job. > If the above is true re. the saab's floorpan origins then I'd go for the BMW > myself. Floorpan, yes. Bracing, suspension, and pretty much anything else handling related, no. Am not sure if there is a problem with my news server and I can't see a pearl of wisdom I rolled forth earlier, so: Have you considered a Merc CLK cabrio? With the arrival of the new shape, the old W208 might get particularly interesting in price. DAS SignatureFor direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > Help ! > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tony >Am not sure if there is a problem with my news server and I can't see a >pearl of wisdom I rolled forth earlier, so: Have you considered a Merc CLK [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >DAS I think some of you have lost site of the OP "I am looking to spend about £10-12,000.". Thanks for all your comments, keep them coming ! What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle (ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too much out of pocket, for company use I need 26mpg to break even, is this realistic? Tony > >Am not sure if there is a problem with my news server and I can't see a > >pearl of wisdom I rolled forth earlier, so: Have you considered a Merc CLK [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I think some of you have lost site of the OP "I am looking to spend > about ?10-12,000.". >What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle >(ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too >much out of pocket, for company use I need 26mpg to break even, is this >realistic? The Saab will give you 26-32 avg highway and city. Some folks report 35 or so highway. I never get near that - I suppose because I like the incredible mid range torque of the turbo on the highway. :-) >What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle >(ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too >much out of pocket, for company use I need 26mpg to break even, is this >realistic? I get about 26-27 on mainly highway driving in a 1995 Saab 9000, 30 mpg on all interstate trips. One good point for the Saab, it will run nicely on midgrade gas or even regular. It doesn't really like regular, but it will run on it. Just doesn't have the oomph it does on mid-range or premium. I believe BMWs all require premium. laurak@madmousergraphics.com http://www.madmousergraphics.com web design, print design, photography > >What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle > >(ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have the oomph it does on mid-range or premium. > I believe BMWs all require premium. While the lierature says "unleaded premium", remember that these cars are made to run all around the world. US Mid grade (89 AKI) is fine for most BMWs. The ECU's will retard the timing just like on the SAABs. The only difference is the SAAB will also limit boost if it detects pinging, so your loss of power when using lower octane fuel is greater in the SAAB. -Fred W > While the lierature says "unleaded premium", remember that these cars are > made to run all around the world. US Mid grade (89 AKI) is fine for most > BMWs. The ECU's will retard the timing just like on the SAABs. The only > difference is the SAAB will also limit boost if it detects pinging, so your > loss of power when using lower octane fuel is greater in the SAAB. The ECU that Saab has used for quite a while now, will back off spark timing, or boost, or both, depending on a number of factors. It's all mapped to find the optimal output given the current predetonation situation. It'd be interesting to see torque curves for several engines, with different grades of gas, to see just how good they do. The only torque curves I've ever seen (for anything) don't show a comparison of that sort, but I'd love to see it. Anyone with a Dyno want to do a bit of experimenting? > > While the lierature says "unleaded premium", remember that these cars are > > made to run all around the world. US Mid grade (89 AKI) is fine for most [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > but I'd love to see it. Anyone with a Dyno want to do a bit of > experimenting? You're right Dave. The curves you see are always done under totally optimum conditions. It would be cool to see some "real world" comparisons of what happens under lesser conditions. -Fred W > The only >difference is the SAAB will also limit boost if it detects pinging, so your >loss of power when using lower octane fuel is greater in the SAAB. The BMW's retarding of the timing will likewise reduce power appreciably. As to how that compares on a motor for motor basis, I don't think anyone does comparisons of power available during retardation. > Thanks for all your comments, keep them coming ! > > What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle > (ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too > much out of pocket, for company use I need 26mpg to break even, is this > realistic? Live large. Spend a few pennies (on gas) and be driving a car you really want to drive. Heck, I drive my cars for pleasure and don't get any money from my company for gas! Woo Hoo! -Fred W I don't mind spending a "few" pennies, but want to know how many first, I can't afford to subsidise my business use ! Tony > > Thanks for all your comments, keep them coming ! > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -Fred W "apk1" <apk1@ntlworld.com> haute in die Tasten: > I don't mind spending a "few" pennies, but want to know how many > first, I can't afford to subsidise my business use ! Given the fact, that a BMW convertible is roughly constant in size and weight, a 2.8 litre engine needs the same power to move the thing as an 1.8 four banger. In general BMW engines are quite economical. As a rule of thumb I would say that the straight sixes burn 10-15% more fuel than the 4-bangers, but they are worth every drop of it. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > Thanks for all your comments, keep them coming ! > > What sort of fuel consumption can I expect, mainly out of town, gentle > (ish!!) driving, quite fancy a 323i, but want to make sure I won't be too > much out of pocket, for company use I need 26mpg to break even, is this > realistic? Sure, provided you stay out of heavy city traffic. I think 20 mpg is a reasonable estimate for a 323iC with a manual transmission (>30 on the motorway if you keep the speed down). |
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