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Car Forum / Saab Cars / August 2004Old Saab parts fiches online?
I've got a full set of Saab parts catalogs on microfilm, from the 2-stroke days up to the end of the 93/95/96/97 era. I also now have a scanner capable of scanning them legibly. Two questions: First, would people find this useful? Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a problem with parts catalogs from 50 through 25 years ago being posted online? Comments welcome, Dave Hinz > I've got a full set of Saab parts catalogs on microfilm, from the > 2-stroke days up to the end of the 93/95/96/97 era. I also now have > a scanner capable of scanning them legibly. Two questions: > First, would people find this useful? Yes, I would. > Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a > problem with parts catalogs from 50 through 25 years ago being posted > online? Exactly the same question came up on http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vSAAB/message/13905 and this was the final reply in the thread, quote; ------------------ Thanks to all who replied to my question. I work for an intellectual property law firm, and the consensus seems to be that this is most likely public domain in the USA, not elsewhere, because it was published in 1973, apparently without copyright notice. It couldn't be hidden in the fine print either because that would fail the requirement to "give reasonable notice of the claim of copyright." From Circular 01 of the Copyright Office (www.copyright.gov): "Before 1978, federal copyright was generally secured by the act of publication with notice of copyright, assuming compliance with all other relevant statutory conditions. U.S. works in the public domain on January 1, 1978, (for example, works published without satisfying all conditions for securing federal copyright under the Copyright Act of 1909) remain in the public domain under the 1976 Copyright Act. Certain foreign works originally published without notice had their copyrights restored under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA). Request Circular 38b and see the "Notice of Copyright" section on page 4 of this publication for further information." If you read circular 38b. you will see that the copyright would be restored only if it was published in the foreign country (Sweden), and must not have been published within the USA within 30 days of being published in Sweden. I doubt that they delayed publication to the USA, their biggest market, and I doubt that they have any records to prove it anyway. Also, there is something somewhere about a 5 year grace recovery period where they should have attempted to recover the documents published without copyright, but didn't. So, I think I'm safe as long as I don't travel to Sweden :-). And maybe I should limit readers to USA sites. ----------- MH > (I had written, ) >> I've got a full set of Saab parts catalogs on microfilm, from the >> 2-stroke days up to the end of the 93/95/96/97 era. I also now have >> a scanner capable of scanning them legibly. >> Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a >> problem with parts catalogs from 50 through 25 years ago being posted [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > requirement to "give reasonable notice of the claim of > copyright." I then read the rest of this, which ... shows that the guy works in a law firm, let's just say. But the gist of it is "Don't worry about it", I think. The objections I've seen to websites where they get taken down seem to fall into "This is causing us harm" (I can't see how giving part numbers for replacement parts could do anything but _help_ business for Saab/GM), "Customers think you are representing us" (hosting it at a very much not Saab-looking URL, and with a not Saab-looking pages, and a "This is a Saab enthusiasts making restorations easier for other enthusiasts" type disclaimer should cover me - anyone have a reason why this wouldn't work? Dave Hinz >... > anyone have a reason why this wouldn't work? Another way out would be claiming 'fair use' see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use as; - it does not limit the copyright owners' right to sell the originals; - the information is significant because it represents historic Saab cars; - the information is only being used for non profit and informational purposes; If the http://www.vsaab.com site can get away with the '70s SAAB Sport & Rally Catalog, you can put the parts catalogs on a website. ------- MH >First, would people find this useful? >Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a >problem with parts catalogs from 50 through 25 years ago being posted >online? Even if they "have a problem" with it - which I would sincerely doubt the standard is that they send you a letter telling you to stop or they'll get mad at you. Companies that are aggressive against "web site use of material" send a _lot_ of letters (clerks = $cheap ) and take little action (lawyers = $expensive). The first step is always a letter. Remember that for anyone to sure you for damages (and that's all anyone can sue for) they'd have to prove that they lost money due to your actions. I can't see how you'd do anything but stimulate sales. >>First, would people find this useful? >>Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the standard is that they send you a letter telling you to stop or > they'll get mad at you. OK, no content yet, but how does this look: http://www.duck-creek.net/dave/photos/saab/ Or, should I lose the whole "Note:" paragraph and just leave it with "The purpose of this page..."? In any case, I've got most of the 2-stroke fiches (6 sheets) scanned, the Sonett is 2 sheets, and the V4 I think is 4 or 5. Time consuming work, but... Dave >>>First, would people find this useful? >>>Second, is there any conceivable way that Saab/GM would have a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Or, should I lose the whole "Note:" paragraph and just leave it with "The purpose >of this page..."? I'd lose the note, playing dumb is better. >In any case, I've got most of the 2-stroke fiches (6 sheets) scanned, the Sonett >is 2 sheets, and the V4 I think is 4 or 5. Time consuming work, but... > >Dave >OK, no content yet, but how does this look: It looks a bit eh.... 'boring'. I know that content is more important than looks but still, you may want to make it a bit more pleasant to the eye by using colors and another layout (e.g. http://www.vsaab.com/SportRally/preface.htm ) or including some pictures of SAAB 95/96/97 cars. > http://www.duck-creek.net/dave/photos/saab/ >Or, should I lose the whole "Note:" No, leave it. I think it's good to start (a web page or more general a report) with a short introduction or explanation. > Time consuming work, but... you'll finnish what you started... ------ MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8 >>OK, no content yet, but how does this look: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.vsaab.com/SportRally/preface.htm ) or including some pictures of > SAAB 95/96/97 cars. If you'd like to design the looks of the page, I'll be delighted to use it and give you full credit/blame. I'm not much into graphic design, and my HTML is _very_ hand-coded (except for the galleries which are rendered by a script and are even more rough and non-compliant HTML). >> http://www.duck-creek.net/dave/photos/saab/ >>Or, should I lose the whole "Note:" > > No, leave it. I think it's good to start (a web page or more general a > report) with a short introduction or explanation. Hm. Split on this one. >> Time consuming work, but... > > you'll finnish what you started... Heh. I'm uploading the first batch of scans at this moment. They are scanned at 3200 DPI, which is JUUUUUUUST enough to make them readable, some quite frankly are only barely so. I haven't put the originals into the microfiche reader to see if they're just that fuzzy, or if I'm not quite at a high enough resolution. Problem is, of course, that the images get HUGE if I scan at a higher resolution, andI also don't have a scanner capable o6400 DBP (but a coworker does). Take a look, I've got parts of sections 2 (engine), 3 (electrical) and 4 (transmission) uploaded now. Even with a T1 link, it takes time to move these 1MB files from my desktop to my server which is in a different part of the state. Files will be getting there throughout the day, as I need breaks from "outside work" (trimming trees & building a rock wall, as it happens). Dave > If you'd like to design the looks of the page, I'll be delighted to > use it and give you full credit/blame. I'll think about it, but I too >do< have a life outside A.A.S. > http://www.duck-creek.net/dave/photos/saab/ If you are on http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vSAAB/ or even http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAABec you may want to drop that url there too, lots of vSAABers there. I f you are not I can do it for you. > Heh. I'm uploading the first batch of scans at this moment. great, keep up the good work. ------ MH > Remember that for anyone to sue you for damages (and that's > all anyone can sue for) they'd have to prove that they lost money > due to your actions. I can't see how you'd do anything but stimulate > sales. They will lose money because they will sell less of their own manuals (for sale at the SAAB museum in Sweden). Not that there is a big market where they can sell big Kronor... > I can't see how you'd do anything but stimulate sales. Sales of what? Vintage SAAB 95/96/97 parts? Specific SAAB parts are hardly available from SAAB anymore and I don't think GM is interested in selling obsolete Ford engine parts. ------ MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8 >Subject: Re: Old Saab parts fiches online? >From: "MH" nomail@nowhere.no [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >'72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 >'87 900T8 I have a OEM Saab microfiche set for 74-77 Saab 99 models if you are interested :). Drop me a line. Thanks, Joe--ASE Certified Parts Specialist & 10th Ann.Club Tech Director '80 Carousel Red Turbo T/A, 27k orig. '79 "Y89" 400/4 speed 10th Ann. T/A, 57k orig '84 Olds 88 Royale Bgm 2 dr, 307 "Rocket" (lol), 143k and still going.... '91 S10 Blazer 4.3Z |
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