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Car Forum / Saab Cars / August 2004Wheel Nuts
I'm expecting a 9-5 Aero shortly (No, I'm not pregnant!) Do they come with locking wheel nuts? Dave > I'm expecting a 9-5 Aero shortly (No, I'm not pregnant!) > Do they come with locking wheel nuts? Nope, they're not locking, and they're bolts. (easier to replace a bolt than a broken stud, among other reasons). But, Saab has sold these as an option for a very long time, so I would expect that's true today as well. If you haven't completed negotiations, maybe your dealer would throw 'em in with the deal? Otherwise, they're cheaper than your deductible if the wheels would get stolen, so... Dave Hinz > Nope, they're not locking, and they're bolts. (easier to replace a > bolt than a broken stud, among other reasons). But, Saab has sold > these as an option for a very long time, so I would expect that's true > today as well. If you haven't completed negotiations, maybe your dealer > would throw 'em in with the deal? Otherwise, they're cheaper than your > deductible if the wheels would get stolen, so... They're like 85 bucks (US bucks, that is) for a set of four, if I remember correctly. You can get them from saabcatalog.com, the dealer, or any other place that has Saab parts and accessories. Thanks guys. I'll have a word with my dealer. Dave Do yourself a favor, and don't buy them, unless some stouter configuration is offered by someone else - I've had two sets, and they're sh.t. The first ones had a small pin, say about 3/16" diameter. After several years, the pins seemed to pull out of the tool. The second set had this 1/8" recessed cloverleaf sort of pattern. A better design than the pins, but still complete sh.t. I wound up having to drill two of them out over time, and the third was so difficult, I had to take it to the dealer for removal (and in case you're wondering I always use a torque wrench on my wheels, tightening them to no more than 85lbs.) >Thanks guys. >I'll have a word with my dealer. > >Dave > Do yourself a favor, and don't buy them, unless some stouter > configuration is offered by someone else - I've had two sets, and > they're sh.t. The first ones had a small pin, say about 3/16" > diameter. After several years, the pins seemed to pull out of the > tool. Never saw that type, I had: > The second set had this 1/8" recessed cloverleaf sort of > pattern. A better design than the pins, but still complete sh.t. How do you define "complete sh.t" as it applies here please? How much torque were you applying to these that they failed? If you're seeing problems that others aren't, with two different types of locking lugbolt assemblies from a quality source, chances are someone's doing something wrong and it's not the people designing the item. > I > wound up having to drill two of them out over time, and the third was > so difficult, I had to take it to the dealer for removal (and in case > you're wondering I always use a torque wrench on my wheels, tightening > them to no more than 85lbs.) Is that the spec? Did you use any sort of anti-seize on them? Did it fail on installation or removal? Something doesn't add up here, is all I'm saying. The source for both sets of my locking lugs has been Saab, first set in '88, 2nd set ~'95. Obviously, they failed on removal, as my post indicated, they had to be drilled out. 85lbs. is dead center spec on the 9k (factory service manual specifies a range from 77 to 92 foot lbs.). There would be brief periods when proper torque would exist: i.e., practically whenever my regular tech at the dealer didn't service my car, or when the car was at a tire vendor's shop, and I would forget to actually hand an idiot there the torque wrench I keep in my car for the very purpose of tightening the wheel lugs. My rule of thumb? If I don't positively know my wheels have been properly torqued down, I will be re-torquing them ASAP. My primary purpose for this is to prevent warping of rotors, secondary purpose is to keep the wheels from being damaged. "Anti-seize"? I've never used any product so labeled, except on spark plugs; however, I do slather lug nut threads with plain axle grease. Again, the Saab locking lugs are complete, unadulterated sh.t. Oh, the steel is good - just try to drill one out - but the design is quite lacking, and prone to fail. Instead of an 1/8" recessed pattern, it should be a 1/4" or more. Some of you might not care if these units won't last more than 5 or 6 years, as you'll be dumping your cars before then. But if you are planning on keeping your car, don't buy the Saab locking nuts. Frankly, when somebody wants to charge me $21.50 per lug nut, I expect more. >> Do yourself a favor, and don't buy them, unless some stouter >> configuration is offered by someone else - I've had two sets, and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >fail on installation or removal? Something doesn't add up here, is all >I'm saying. > Again, the Saab locking lugs are complete, unadulterated sh.t. Oh, > the steel is good - just try to drill one out - but the design is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > your cars before then. But if you are planning on keeping your car, > don't buy the Saab locking nuts. My set of Saab locking lugbolts lasted the life of the car, from '88 until 2002 when I traded it with 247,000 miles. They are of the cloverleaf deesign, and I have no resevations in suggesting that anyone buy this quality product. I don't know if you got two bad sets (yet you say the steel is good) or if you're doing something wrong, but making a blanket statement as you are that they're "complete, unadulterated sh.t" seems unwarranted. Dave Hinz How you got cloverleafs in '88 is beyond me, unless the cloverleafs were already out, and the Cincinnati dealer had some of pin-style nuts in stock back then when I purchased my 1st set. You can blame the failure of these units on me if you like, but I'll guarantee I was gentle with them - my 16" wheels, the cross-spoke, Griffins, retailed for $2,500 in '88 - as a consequence, I was necessarily gentle with them. My recollection was that on the 1st set, when one lug began to fail, I replaced the entire set. Then with the cloverleafs, 1st, one went out, and I had to drill a hole down the center of it, then pound in a thin cold chisel on which I took a pipe wrench to turn it out. Then on some subsequent wheel exchange, another nut failed (I particularly remember trying to remove summer tires late December one year to put my Gilslavids on). Thereafter, the 3rd one failed, and after wrestling for hours trying to drill these bitches out, I took that one to the dealer. Frankly, you can make all the assumptions you want that I was sloppy with these inferior lug nuts, but it makes little difference - they're still sh.t: for sake of argument, let's assume I used them in the fashion of even an average user (instead of carefully, and always with a torque wrench). Since I've had bad experience w/two sets over a 12 year period, versus your good experience w/one set over a 14 year period, I submit my experiences are likely statistically more accurate than yours, given the 100% larger sample. Then again, I might have changed wheels more often than you, given I have 3 separate sets (2 Griffin sets, 1 sunburst 15 spoke set) . Bottom line, Dave, w/all due deference, I maintain the Saab locking nuts have bullshit designs, and Saab has one hell of a lot of nerve charging $21.50 per nut. There is nothing unwarranted about Saab locking lugs being of a complete, unadulterated sh.t design. This is particularly so when one considers the price. When one spends that much money for a nut, that mofo had better last- in fact it should be titanium, and tipped with rubies. I'll never, ever buy another one of these sets from Saab. And if there is nothing better - as if I now even care to look - my feelings are that my time and piece of mind are far more important to me than the $1,000 deductible - so if some crack head wants to steal my wheels, oh well, I'll just torque down another set. >My set of Saab locking lugbolts lasted the life of the car, from '88 until >2002 when I traded it with 247,000 miles. They are of the cloverleaf [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Dave Hinz > How you got cloverleafs in '88 is beyond me, unless the cloverleafs > were already out, and the Cincinnati dealer had some of pin-style nuts > in stock back then when I purchased my 1st set. Perhaps it was '89. Or '90. Point remains. > Frankly, you can make all the assumptions you want that I was sloppy > with these inferior lug nuts, Bolts. > but it makes little difference - they're > still sh.t: In your experience. Mine differs. > I'll never, ever buy another one of > these sets from Saab. That much is apparent, and I will have no hesitation whatsoever of buying another set should I ever feel the need to have locking lugbolts on my car. I guess that's what "our experience differs" means. Gee, you're posting under the subject line, "wheel nuts," then want to bust my chops because I'm using your terminology. You didn't mention how often you changed your wheels. Depending on the frequency, your experience might equate to as little as 3 or 4 changes over the life of the bolts; however, I was interchanging 3 sets of wheels, plus regular rotation - which equates to 5 or 6 changes per year. These bolts were sh.t when Saab made them, and they're likely even more sh.t given that GM now makes them (e.g., I saw a 9-5 tonight with a headlight out. My '88 went 11 years before a headlight went out). >> How you got cloverleafs in '88 is beyond me, unless the cloverleafs >> were already out, and the Cincinnati dealer had some of pin-style nuts [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >I guess that's what "our experience differs" means. > bolts were sh.t when Saab made them, and they're likely even more sh.t > given that GM now makes them (e.g., I saw a 9-5 tonight with a > headlight out. My '88 went 11 years before a headlight went out). What a load of crap.... Cheers! > [...] (e.g., I saw a 9-5 tonight with a headlight out. My '88 > went 11 years before a headlight went out). [...] I wouldn't attach too much significance to that. Less than a week ago (to set the info in period) I was assured by a local Saab dealer that the 9-5's major light bulbs can also be sourced from non-Saab suppliers. In the UK that can mean Unipart, who are not bad IME but incline to be cheap-and-cheerful and widely available. Don't go lynching the wrong passer-by. -- Andrew Stephenson >> [...] (e.g., I saw a 9-5 tonight with a headlight out. My '88 >> went 11 years before a headlight went out). [...] [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Don't go lynching the wrong passer-by. Having said that, There seems to be a design flaw in the lamp failure warning system of both the 9-3 and the 9-5 that causes one headlight to fail - It happened to me and a number of others on this group. It's a Hella design fault rather than a Saab one, but it's still annoying that Saab continued to fit what they almost certainly knew was an unreliable part for anything up to three years - They may even still be fitting it in fact... Cheers, Colin. > Gee, you're posting under the subject line, "wheel nuts," then want to > bust my chops because I'm using your terminology. You didn't mention > how often you changed your wheels. Actually, I believe I mentioned summer to winter tires and the corresponding winter to summer tires. If not explicitedly stated, most people do one change of each per year, given the whole earth rotational thing and all that. > Depending on the frequency, your > experience might equate to as little as 3 or 4 changes over the life [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > given that GM now makes them (e.g., I saw a 9-5 tonight with a > headlight out. My '88 went 11 years before a headlight went out). Right, it's GM's fault that the light bulb burned out. Good to know your understanding of engineering isn't colored by your dislike for GM. Bye now. |
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