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Car Forum / Saab Cars / September 2005

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Winter Tires

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Shane Almeida - 28 Dec 2004 16:38 GMT
As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
tires."  I have 17 inches wheels with 225/45-17 tires.  tirerack.com says
I should consider "minus-sizing" for winter tires.  I think I'd rather
keep the same size tire on the same wheels to save a couple hundred bucks.  
How important is minus-sizing for getting better traction?  They say it's
because wide tires have to plow through more snow, but my tires aren't
*that* wide (7 inches), are they?  I don't have a lot of experience with
Saabs and/or winter tires, so I'm wondering what fellow Saab owners think.  
I'm going to call Tire Rack and maybe Pat Greer (the guy Dave Hinz has
mentioned a few times) later today as well.  Thanks.
Dave Hinz - 28 Dec 2004 17:18 GMT
> As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
> this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
> tires."  I have 17 inches wheels with 225/45-17 tires.  tirerack.com says
> I should consider "minus-sizing" for winter tires.  

Yes, I agree.

>I think I'd rather
> keep the same size tire on the same wheels to save a couple hundred bucks.  

Do you want to submit your wheels and tires to twice-yearly mounting
and balancing?

> How important is minus-sizing for getting better traction?  They say it's
> because wide tires have to plow through more snow, but my tires aren't
> *that* wide (7 inches), are they?  

Well, a narrower, taller tire will act like a runner on a sled - cut through
to the pavement more easily.  Also, a set of steel wheels at 50 bucks
each or so, doesn't take long to pay for themselves when you consider
that a mount & balance is what, 15 bucks per wheel?  3 or 4 changes
(2 years tops) and they've paid for themselves, even without considering
possible wear or damage to the tires from the process.

> I don't have a lot of experience with
> Saabs and/or winter tires, so I'm wondering what fellow Saab owners think.  
> I'm going to call Tire Rack and maybe Pat Greer (the guy Dave Hinz has
> mentioned a few times) later today as well.  Thanks.

Even if you don't buy tires from Pat, give him a call and he can explain
the situation.  He will not bullshit you.

Dave Hinz
Gary Fritz - 28 Dec 2004 18:47 GMT
The Michelin Pilots that came on my '02 9-5 Aero were absolute death in
the snow -- sliding through intersections like you say was almost
unavoidable.  I didn't want to go through the remounting &etc like Dave
mentioned, but I didn't want to cough up hundreds of $$ for alloy rims
either.  (Everybody including the dealer said the Aero cannot use steel
rims, though I don't remember why.)

So I tried high-performance all-seasons.  Ended up with the Pirelli
PZero Nero, which were rated very highly at tirerack.com including for
ice/snow.  Pretty good tires on dry roads, though they "tramline" badly
on rain grooves.  (Rain grooves tend to grab them and throw you to
one side or the other.)  In the snow, though, I was seriously
unimpressed.  They're barely acceptable for my driving, which only
involves light snow maybe 4-6 times a year.  There is no way you could
call these things "winter tires."

Maybe somebody knows of good all-seasons that actually work on snow.  
But unless you get a good solid recommendation or very seldom drive in
snow, I wouldn't go the all-season route.

Gary
Dave Hinz - 28 Dec 2004 18:53 GMT
> Maybe somebody knows of good all-seasons that actually work on snow.  
> But unless you get a good solid recommendation or very seldom drive in
> snow, I wouldn't go the all-season route.

All-season tires suck equally year-round.
Dave Hinz - 29 Dec 2004 00:05 GMT
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th - 29 Dec 2004 00:10 GMT
> The Michelin Pilots that came on my '02 9-5 Aero were absolute death in
> the snow -- sliding through intersections like you say was almost
> unavoidable.  I didn't want to go through the remounting &etc like Dave
> mentioned, but I didn't want to cough up hundreds of $$ for alloy rims
> either.  (Everybody including the dealer said the Aero cannot use steel
> rims, though I don't remember why.)

Because the brakes are larger on an Aero compared to "standard" car.

Signature

th

th - 29 Dec 2004 00:18 GMT
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Gary Fritz - 28 Dec 2004 22:58 GMT
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Tom Reingold - 28 Dec 2004 20:32 GMT
> As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
> this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I'm going to call Tire Rack and maybe Pat Greer (the guy Dave Hinz has
> mentioned a few times) later today as well.  Thanks.

Do it right. You won't regret it. Get tall, narrow tires on ugly steel
rims, with the minus size. OK, they don't have to be ugly, but it's nice
not to worry about your rims for two or three months a year. Get real
snow tires like those famous Bridgestones or some Nokians. I have the
Nokians, and I seem to have traction equal or better to those driving
SUV's. I'm driving a 1995 9000CS.

Every year, I bolt on the snow wheels in December and the 3-season
wheels in March. I'm not even a home mechanic, but I can do this myself
with the scissor jack and a bicycle pump. Takes me an hour, and I get a
bit of exercise. Or you could pay about $20 to have someone do it quickly.

I'm the only one around here (NJ) who does this, but overall, the
investment hasn't been that big, and the security is great. Since the
snow tires save wear on my 3-season tires, I'm not really paying more
per mile, unless I sell the car with tread left on the tires. ;-)

Tom
th - 29 Dec 2004 23:31 GMT
>> As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
>> this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> with the scissor jack and a bicycle pump. Takes me an hour, and I get a
> bit of exercise. Or you could pay about $20 to have someone do it quickly.

Removing the wheels every now and then, and cleaning the hubs from rust,
is also necessary if you drive in wet/snow climate where roads are
salted. If you don't, you may loose your wheels due to broken bolts, as
a result of the decreased tensioning of the bolts. Saabs had very little
problems with rust on hubs until the 9-3/9-5, where it seems necessary
to clean the hubs very carefully at least twice per year if you have
alloy rims. If you have a 9000 or older models the rust problem (at
least on Saab original hubs) is not very significant but a brief
cleaning at least once per year is anyway recommended.

Thus there is no extra work involved in changing between summer and
winter tyres. Saab workshops doesn't seem to do anything about the
problem. When I had my 9-5 rear hubs/discs changed some time ago, they
just attached the wheels, no protection in the form of copper or
aluminum paste, and after a couple of months the 9-5 hubs had rusted
more than the 9000 hubs do in two years.

Signature

th

jr - 30 Dec 2004 03:51 GMT
Should anyone be interested, I have a set of 4 original saab
steel rims for sale, these have have never been on a car . These are 5
lug, 15" type that fit a wide variety of models and years.

I have been doing the winter / summer swap with 2 set of wheels/tires
for all my cars for years and find it is the best of all worlds.

reply by email for more info
Dave Hinz - 30 Dec 2004 15:44 GMT
> Should anyone be interested, I have a set of 4 original saab
> steel rims for sale, these have have never been on a car . These are 5
> lug, 15" type that fit a wide variety of models and years.

1949 thorough 1980 model 92/93/95/96/97, for instance, for later
models?  You'll have better luck if you narrow it down a bit.
jr - 30 Dec 2004 19:08 GMT
>>Should anyone be interested, I have a set of 4 original saab
>>steel rims for sale, these have have never been on a car . These are 5
>>lug, 15" type that fit a wide variety of models and years.
>
> 1949 thorough 1980 model 92/93/95/96/97, for instance, for later
> models?  You'll have better luck if you narrow it down a bit.

sorry for not being more specific,

these fit
Saab 900 model from 1994-1998
Saab 9-5 model from 1998-2004

These steel rims are the 5 lug nut type,
(the bolt pattern is 5 on 110 mm)

They are 15", Saab part number 4688156.
They may fit others that I am not aware of.

Hope this info is helpful.
jr - 30 Dec 2004 19:11 GMT
>>> Should anyone be interested, I have a set of 4 original saab
>>> steel rims for sale, these have have never been on a car . These are
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Hope this info is helpful.

Also, fit Saab 9-3 model from 1998-2003

That quite a few recent models and years
Wouldn't you say?
Dave Hinz - 30 Dec 2004 19:14 GMT
> Also, fit Saab 9-3 model from 1998-2003
>
> That quite a few recent models and years
> Wouldn't you say?

Yup.  Saab is pretty good about not changing things "just because", and
wheels have been one of those things.  If these were the earlier 5-bolt
wheels, I have a car I would have liked to have an NOS set for.  Ah well.
jr - 31 Dec 2004 03:31 GMT
>>Also, fit Saab 9-3 model from 1998-2003
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> wheels have been one of those things.  If these were the earlier 5-bolt
> wheels, I have a car I would have liked to have an NOS set for.  Ah well.

could you fill me in on what years/models uses this other 5 lug pattern
and what the pattern is?
Dave Hinz - 31 Dec 2004 15:13 GMT
>> Yup.  Saab is pretty good about not changing things "just because", and
>> wheels have been one of those things.  If these were the earlier 5-bolt
>> wheels, I have a car I would have liked to have an NOS set for.  Ah well.
>
> could you fill me in on what years/models uses this other 5 lug pattern
> and what the pattern is?

I did.  1949 to 1980, Saab models 92, 93, (94 but there were only 5 of
them), 95, 96, 97 (98 but there was either one or two of them).
Large circle on the hub, maybe 4 or 5 inch opening.  Think "old beetle-type
wheel" if that helps.
MH - 31 Dec 2004 16:42 GMT
> ...Saab models 92, 93, (94 but there were only 5 of them)

6

> 95, 96, 97 (98 but there was either one or two of them).
> Large circle on the hub, maybe 4 or 5 inch opening.

The opening is 13 cm (5") on the steel wheels (too big to fit on modern
balancing machines...)
about 2" on the alloy soccerballs (same as on some 99 wheels):
http://members.home.nl/saab96/techtip/soccball.jpg
pitch and radius is same on both, bolts are different.

--
MH
'72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96
'87 900T8
http://go.to/saab96
Dave Hinz - 31 Dec 2004 17:32 GMT
>> ...Saab models 92, 93, (94 but there were only 5 of them)
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The opening is 13 cm (5") on the steel wheels (too big to fit on modern
> balancing machines...)

I have a local guy who can do it - he has an attachment that has 5
studs on a spur-gear type arrangement, which keeps them at the same
distance from the centerline.  Lugnuts on the studs of that mount,
and it works great.  He charges more, but...

Dave Hinz
Dave Hinz - 28 Dec 2004 22:21 GMT
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Tom Reingold - 28 Dec 2004 23:01 GMT
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ma_twain - 30 Dec 2004 15:01 GMT
> As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
> this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I'm going to call Tire Rack and maybe Pat Greer (the guy Dave Hinz has
> mentioned a few times) later today as well.  Thanks.

I highly recommend dedicated winter tires on all four wheels.  I have
driven Saabs since 1986.  While Saabs are good with all season tires,
they are great in the snow and ice with dedicate snow tires.  Try it
once and you will never consider driving in the winter with all seasons
again.
R Gostenik - 17 Jan 2005 02:45 GMT
Green Diamond Tires... either the Inari or Icelanders

> As I slid passed a stop sign and right through a four-way intersection
> this morning, I thought to myself, "Self, it's time to get some winter
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I'm going to call Tire Rack and maybe Pat Greer (the guy Dave Hinz has
> mentioned a few times) later today as well.  Thanks.
R Gostenik - 27 Sep 2005 00:53 GMT
I have been a Saab pilot all of my adult life and currently own a '99 9-5 SE
and an '00 9-3 Cvt SE.  I am also the owner of Green Diamond Tire - West and
Green Diamond Tire / E-Commerce.  I run 205/55R16 you both vehicles
year-round in Colorado and they are stellar.  Very much worth considering if
you want the best all-climate ice traction tire available.  They are a
remanufactured tire with silicon carbide granules embedded throughout the
tread... down to the wear bars.  They were imported from Sweden until this
season... when GDT-NA opened the first US-based plant in NY.  Rich Gostenik

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