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Car Forum / Saab Cars / February 2005SAABillac
First Cadillac Designed For Europe Debuts In Geneva just-auto.com February 7, 2005 Cadillac will show a concept version of its new European car at the Geneva motor show in early March, and display the production version at the Frankfurt IAA in September. General Motors vice chairman Robert Lutz will give a sneak preview of the sedan on Tuesday February 8 when he opens the new headquarters for Cadillac Europe, a subsidiary of the Netherlands-based Kroymans Corp., which distributes Cadillacs in Europe, according to Automotive News Europe. The smaller Cadillac will be built on GM's Epsilon architecture using the Saab 9-3 body shell. Sales of the car are scheduled to start early next year. Despite previous suggestions, the Cadillac version probably will not get a convertible version which the 9-3 line offers. The car will come with a 1.9-litre diesel engine, which sources say will come from the Fiat-GM Powertrain engine joint venture, and a V6 petrol engine from Holden, GM's Australian subsidiary, which builds the GM Global engine line. The baby Cadillac will be produced in Trollhattan, Sweden, where Saab assembles the 9-3 and 9-5. Saab's Swedish assembly operation has been in doubt as GM consolidates its manufacturing capacity. In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 units a year, GM sources say. "The model is developed for Europe, but could be sold in other markets," a GM Europe source said. "But it won't go to the US." In 2005, Cadillac Europe plans to sell between 3,500 and 4,000 Cadillacs in Europe. Cadillac Europe says the brand sold 2,150 units in western Europe in 2004. But market researcher JATO Dynamics says 1,157 Cadillacs were sold last year in western Europe. > First Cadillac Designed For Europe Debuts In Geneva Why does GM reckon any sane European would want to drive a car with a Cadillac ( truly bad taste ) badge ? It's a bit like saying 'I'm a Yank flag sucking dumb f.ck'. And I want to invade Eye Raaaan ! Sales - maybe a few tens ? Great news for Saab I'm sure ( not ) ! Maybe Europeans should take over GM ? Graham > First Cadillac Designed For Europe Debuts In Geneva > just-auto.com [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 units a year, GM > sources say. There have to be at least that many idiots in Europe. >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 >> units a year, GM sources say. > > There have to be at least that many idiots in Europe. True just look at how many BMWs(aka Idiot Wrappers) they sell. Z. > >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 > >> units a year, GM sources say. > > > > There have to be at least that many idiots in Europe. > > True just look at how many BMWs(aka Idiot Wrappers) they sell. Oh come on - BMWs actually are quite nice cars to drive - they don't baulk at corners and look the part too. Graham >> >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 >> >> units a year, GM sources say. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Graham NO NO NO Don't lets do the BMW thread AGAIN! As for Cadillacs, I don't think they'll sell more than a few thousand Europe wide. European cars are streets ahead of American.....most of them are Japanese creations! BTW do you find those silly English flags flying from French and German built cars irritating? I mean if they're so patriotic, why didn't they buy British in the 70's and save the British car industry? I'm guessing it's something to do with the Austin Allegro, or the Talbot Alpine! ;-) > >> >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 > >> >> units a year, GM sources say. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > NO NO NO Don't lets do the BMW thread AGAIN! Oh OK ! I prefer FWD anyway. > As for Cadillacs, I don't think they'll sell more than a few thousand Europe > wide. If that. In Europe, Cadillac is synonymous with US grossness for lack of a better description. Lousy styling too. > European cars are streets ahead of American.....most of them are > Japanese creations! Errrr.... They are ? I know many Japanese manufacturers have factories here but European cars are well.... European. And Saabs should be Swedish. Who else but Renault could have come up with the Megane with its funny rear end for example or Fiat's Multipla - to take a couple of eccentric styling examples. > BTW do you find those silly English flags flying from French and German > built cars irritating? As I'm not English and loathe football louts - YES especially so ! > I mean if they're so patriotic, why didn't they buy > British in the 70's and save the British car industry? The answer is called British Leyland. > I'm guessing it's something to do with the Austin Allegro, or the Talbot > Alpine! ;-) Yes to the first. Actually I gather that the Alpine was actually quite good. But then it was a French design basically. Graham >> >> >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 >> >> >> units a year, GM sources say. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > example > or Fiat's Multipla - to take a couple of eccentric styling examples. Shakin its a.s? yuk, and as for the Fiat Frog, my mate owns one. You know how back in the early seventies 96 owners would flash their headlights at each other when they passed each other, as in "oh you own one of these ugly ducklings too" Well Multipla owners are doing it today. Somehow I don't think Fix It Again Tony cars will ever quite match our beloved marque. I take your point with the Japanese quip, but lets be honest Rover wouldn't exist without Honda. >> BTW do you find those silly English flags flying from French and German >> built cars irritating? > > As I'm not English and loathe football louts - YES especially so ! It was a comment to all really, but we are obviously in agreement here. >> I mean if they're so patriotic, why didn't they buy >> British in the 70's and save the British car industry? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Graham The Alpine, quite good?! Crikey changing gear was like stirring porridge trying to find lumpy bits!! As for French design, oh dear, as long as you don't mind the Gaelic shrug when your Renault won't start I guess you can put up with it. Remember the 80's Renault ad "Renault build a better car" well here in the UK we're still waiting for them to do just that. > >> >> >> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 > >> >> >> units a year, GM sources say. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Shakin its a.s? yuk, I felt that way first too. It's grown on me though. Full marks to Renault for some innovative and distinctive styling I reckon ! Saabs look better though. :-) > and as for the Fiat Frog, my mate owns one. You know > how back in the early seventies 96 owners would flash their headlights at > each other when they passed each other, as in "oh you own one of these ugly > ducklings too" Well Multipla owners are doing it today. Somehow I don't > think Fix It Again Tony cars will ever quite match our beloved marque. Yeah but you're certainly never ever going to get missed in one ! "I'll be the one in the really ugly car waiting for you" - lol. > I take your point with the Japanese quip, but lets be honest Rover wouldn't > exist without Honda. True - but there's a lot of history behind that. If Rover hadn't been forced shotgun style into the BL marriage I wouldn't be surprised if they were still a premier marque. I once had a P6 - 2000 TC and it was a stunning car for its day. How many 1963 designs got 125 bhp from 2 litres on a couple of SUs ( and tons of torque too ) ? > >> BTW do you find those silly English flags flying from French and German > >> built cars irritating? > > > > As I'm not English and loathe football louts - YES especially so ! > > It was a comment to all really, but we are obviously in agreement here. Pleased to hear. I do so hate the Beckingham Palace sh.t etc. > >> I mean if they're so patriotic, why didn't they buy > >> British in the 70's and save the British car industry? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > put up with it. Remember the 80's Renault ad "Renault build a better car" > well here in the UK we're still waiting for them to do just that. There was a Lotus version of the Alpine was there not ? I seem to recall it did well in rallying. I also recall it being quite sought after. Wasn't it the original 'hot hatch' ? I have no personal experience of driving one but I suspect the hot versions were somewhat better. Then again many cars' gearboxes were like stirring porridge in those day ! I guess the standard version wan't the same. Been there done that too. My g/f bought an MG Metro and that was actually a fun car to drive ( loads of fun sometimes ) . You'd barely recognise the similarity with a standard L model though. I reckon current Renaults aren't bad. I got a ( prevous model ) Laguna as an insurance loaner whilst my own vehicle was being fixed as a result of some idiot boy racer chappie's idiotic antics. I was quite taken. Not quick enough though for my liking - even with the 2 litre engine. Nice drive however. Graham >>>>>>>> In full production, the new Cadillac could sell 10,000 >>>>>>>>units a year, GM sources say. [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > > Graham Have any of you driven a CTS-V? My brother has one and it is one super fast and well handling car. Some of the interior could be upgraded but it is a very impressive car. D <Absolutely enormous SNIP> > There was a Lotus version of the Alpine was there not ? I seem to recall > it did [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Graham You're thinking of the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, which was indeed a hoot of a car, although whether you could officially call this or the Peugeot 205 1.9GTi the original hot hatch is probably debateable. I had a Metro on site for a while, bugger with size ten site boots, kept pressing accelerator and brake together. My GF at college dumped me, and bought a fiat 126, funnily enough her Reg Plate was WAR *** % Seemed apt at the time! (I don't think she dumped me for the car, she dumped me for the six foot blonde surfer dude :-( Turned out OK though as my wife is a SAAB fan. Laguna is an OK motor, but I guess I'm fussy, I just love all things Swedish, more Herring anyone? Al ><Absolutely enormous SNIP> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> gearboxes >> were like stirring porridge in those day ! <yet more snippage> >You're thinking of the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, which was indeed a hoot of a >car, although whether you could officially call this or the Peugeot 205 >1.9GTi the original hot hatch is probably debateable. The hot versions of the first generation Renault 5 would also have had claims to be early hot hatches and were certainly around a little earlier than the 205. In standard form the original Renault 5 had a longitudinal engine with power taken from the front, in the same way as in the C900 (desperate attempt to remain on topic). Renault did make souped-up versions with this standard configuration, but they also made a very powerful version with the engine just behind the front seats. Returning to the Talbot Alpine, stirring porridge probably was a fairly apt description for the gearchange in the early versions. Chrysler had bought the former Rootes group (British) and Simca (French) during the 1960s, and Talbot was a make introduced hurriedly when the whole lot was sold to Peugeot around 1979. Though I don't rember driving an AlpineI drove various examples of the Talbot Horizon. This was essentially the same car sold in the US as the Plymouth Horizon, and the one instance where Chrysler in the US had any significant engineering or design influence on a European model. US versions apparently had a Volkswagen engine and transmission. European Horizons initially had European Chrysler engines and gearboxes, and the influence from Chrysler US on the gearbox design seems to have been one of the things that big motor manufacturers did best in the 1970s: providing insufficient resources for product development. I remember the gearchange on early Horizons being appalling even by 1970s standards and I know that later models had Peugeot's own (vastly superior) gearboxes. Martin > > First Cadillac Designed For Europe Debuts In Geneva > > just-auto.com [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > There have to be at least that many idiots in Europe. You reckon? Unless it's simply wonderful I'd expect no more than a few thousand sales max Europewide for a car named Cadillac with all its neocon American bullshit connections. I'd take a test drive just to laugh at it for sure. Graham > First Cadillac Designed For Europe Debuts In Geneva > just-auto.com [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > But market researcher JATO Dynamics says 1,157 Cadillacs were sold last year > in western Europe. A Cadillac is entirely different from a Saab, unless they spruce it up with dashes of chrome all round and a giant cheese slicer up front. It should also have a pennant holder or two on the bonnet, useful for getting free credit in restaurants and and hotel stays... |
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