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Car Forum / Saab Cars / February 2005SON of reliability of used cars in BMW 5 series bracket - 48 Hours from Purchase
What a response to the earlier thread... Thanks to all who responded... Anyway, shirley it's time to bring that little post fest to a close. After considering, A 97P 528iSE 124K Manual, lthr int (new eng at 74K), 75% Service History, ?4995 (Dealer) A 95M Lexus GS300 95K Auto lthr int, Full LEXUS Serice History ?4595 (Dealer) A 99/V 89K Manual FSaabSH SAAB 9-5 2.3tSE Airflow Saloon cloth int ?4995 (Dealer) A 98R 97K Manual FSaabSH SAAB 9-5 2.3tSE Eco Saloon cloth int ?4000 (Saab Specialist) I am approx 48 hours from buying ...... The 98/R SAAB. It has Excllnt Eng/Gbox,Immaculate inside and out, Midnight blue with char grey interior, 16" Saab Alloys,with Harmon Kardon stereo, AC/Climate C, new MOT, (Tank full of Petrol/New service after required arm twisting about no sun roof and mistakenly stating 185 hp instead of 170 bhp). And just a little aside... The Saab specialist dealer is "INCLUDING" a Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves, and "recommending", which ECU upgrades to go for.. How considerate.... So after, the future planned +64hp ECU/Brakes/Air filter upgrade, I believe I'll be contented.... for a while... Comments.... No flames please, I don't smoke..... very well. "levyte357" <levyte357@NOSPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in message news:sauQd.2$or.0@newsfe4-> And just a little aside... The Saab specialist dealer is "INCLUDING" a > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves em ..... presumably you realise that you need to read the small print on that warranty before convincing yourself its a gift. Warranties on used cars are not usually 'comprehensive' .... come to think of it, that applies to warranties on new cars too... > "levyte357" <levyte357@NOSPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:sauQd.2$or.0@newsfe4-> And just a little aside... The Saab specialist [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cars are not usually 'comprehensive' .... come to think of it, that applies > to warranties on new cars too... Quite Correct. They did tell me they used to offer the purchase extended warranty plan by blah blah warranty company, but many of their "valued" customers complained about warranty no paydays, so they offer a comp warranty on certain cars, with condition of customer returning car to base. What impressed me, was when I pointed out common problem of climate control display becoming unreadable, and they agreed to change it whilst servicing car, just like that.. And I know that costs ?200 quid straight away.. Many dealers would say car is sold as seen at that price and lie, that it can be fixed for about ?50. > What impressed me, was when I pointed out common problem of climate control > display > becoming unreadable, and they agreed to change it whilst servicing car, > just like that.. And I know that > costs £200 quid straight away.. Many dealers would say car is sold as seen > at that price and lie, that it can be fixed for about £50. Are you buying a car or marrying the dealer? The cars you listed are very, VERY different machines. The fact that you are concentrating on some silly little dealer detail (which is frankly neither here nor there), while totally ignoring the differences between the cars themselves, says that you either haven't actually driven them, or don't care what your car drives like.  SignatureGrunff > > What impressed me, was when I pointed out common problem of climate control > > display > > becoming unreadable, and they agreed to change it whilst servicing car, > > just like that.. And I know that > > costs ?200 quid straight away.. Many dealers would say car is sold as seen > > at that price and lie, that it can be fixed for about ?50. > > Are you buying a car or marrying the dealer? Possibly buying the car, "AFTER" building an opinion of the dealer. > The cars you listed are very, VERY different machines. The fact that you > are concentrating on some silly little dealer detail (which is frankly > neither here nor there), while totally ignoring the differences between > the cars themselves, says that you either haven't actually driven them, > or don't care what your car drives like. I have actually owned an E34 535iSE (manual), 2 years Owned an 89' 730iSE Auto, 2 years Flown a 9000 CSE 2.3SE FPT, 1 year Driven an E39 528iSE, Driven the 9-5 Se 2.3 LPT in question.. So I have "a little" experience of the cars in question. and I have learned the hard way, performance and comfort is very nice, but not so nice at when cost of maintenance is high and reliability is low. The point I was making was that the dealer/specialist bent over backwards to make sure I was happy, and keep to keep his customers happy who regularily spend ?10K on his cars.. Now, that's not so difficult to understand.... is it? > The point I was making was that the dealer/specialist bent over backwards > to make sure I was happy, and keep to keep his customers happy who > regularily spend £10K on his cars.. Now, that's not so difficult to > understand.... is it? Well, actually, it is. First off, the dealer is trying to sell you a car. This is quite a diffent situation from an annual service (hint - their profit margin on a £5k car is a lot more than on a £120 service). Second, there are good and bad dealers for most makes - it is meaningless to make a decision on which make/model you're going to buy based on a dealer. SignatureGrunff > > The point I was making was that the dealer/specialist bent over backwards > > to make sure I was happy, and keep to keep his customers happy who > > regularily spend ?10K on his cars.. Now, that's not so difficult to > > understand.... is it? > > Well, actually, it is. No, its "NOT" difficult to understand.... it's just rare. It's called "Quality Service". > First off, the dealer is trying to sell you a car. This is quite a > diffent situation from an annual service (hint - their profit margin on > a ?5k car is a lot more than on a ?120 service). NEWSFLASH: ALL dealers want to sell you one of their cars. When you have a little more experience of buying used cars from dealers, you'll "learn" that there is a type of dealer who only wants to sell you a car, take your money and get you out the door, and there is a type of dealer who "not" only wants to sell you a car, but wants your experience of that car to be so good, that you will go back to him and buy a more expensive car from him next time. > Second, there are good and bad dealers for most makes - There are good and bad dealers for everything you buy in life, experience teaches you how to discern between the good and the bad, son. > meaningless to make a decision on which make/model you're going to buy > based on a dealer. I already knew the make I was going to buy. The only decision was to find a decent dealer with "models" I was interested in. Would be a bit silly going to a Saab specialist(e.g someone who sells/maintains "ONLY" Saabs) if I wasn't sure if I wanted a Saab or BMW wouldn't it? And you are actually quite wrong, or inexperienced, or both. Many people (men and women) may intend to buy a certain car, chance into a dealership, and find the professionalism, quality and service so refreshing and different, they choose a completely different manufacturer and model. On reading the original post thoroughly, one "possibly" would recall, 1)I stated "After considering...", then the list of cars considered, NOT a list of dealers. 2)When referring to the 12 month warranty I began with, "And just a little aside..." not that it was a pivotal factor in the decision making process. If the 528iSE was ?750 cheaper and had 25K less on the clock, I would have bought that even with no warranty and only 75% Service History. So can we please move on from the "dealer bashing" ? You may have had bad experiences with dealers in the past, I know I have, but there are one or two quality outfits out there. > There are good and bad dealers for everything you buy in life, experience > teaches you how to discern between the good and the bad, son. <plonk> SignatureGrunff >> There are good and bad dealers for everything you buy in life, >> experience >> teaches you how to discern between the good and the bad, son. > > <plonk> Too bad you plonked him, brother Grunff. Other than (incorrectly) assuming that you were a youngster (and who knows, maybe this fellow is 80?) he did not seem to get too heated in his argument. I was reading along this thread, and I have to say that I agree that the relationship with the dealer and how you expect to be treated after "the deal" can be important *if* (added emphasis on *if*) you need to maintain that relationship after the sale for servicing the car. I have a feeling that you (and I) are not cast from that mold and because we have no need to have someone else service our cars oput far less emphasis on what the dealer says or does. For the average Joe, how they get treated by the dealer is the *most* important part of the buying process. Case in point: My mum lives alone in a city 2 hours away, so she cannot rely on me to service her car. She must rely on a local professional mechanic. She buys only Honda cars (reliability) and buys them from a dealership that she knows and trusts to do the service work correctly, at a fair price and will not try to screw her because she is not terribly knowledgeable about things auotmotive. Yes, you might says she is "married" to that dealership. But it is a marriage of convenience and satisfactory for both parties... ;-) Cheers, -Fred W > Too bad you plonked him, brother Grunff. Other than (incorrectly) > assuming that you were a youngster (and who knows, maybe this fellow > is 80?) he did not seem to get too heated in his argument. It wasn't the content that offended me, it was the tone - I'm always up for a good argument; I just don't like being spoken to (repeatedly) in a condescending manner. > For the average Joe, how they get treated by the dealer is the *most* > important part of the buying process. From experiences with friends using dealers (as you pointed out, I don't use them, so don't have any personal experience), it seems to me that they are generally very helpful until they've made their sale, then somewhat less helpful afterwards. > Case in point: My mum lives alone in a city 2 hours away, so she > cannot rely on me to service her car. She must rely on a local [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Yes, you might says she is "married" to that dealership. But it is a > marriage of convenience and satisfactory for both parties... ;-) If it works, it works, and that's good. SignatureGrunff >> The point I was making was that the dealer/specialist bent over >> backwards [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > diffent situation from an annual service (hint - their profit margin > on a ?5k car is a lot more than on a ?120 service). In real money, yes, as a percentage, no. They generally make a higher percentage of profit on service $$ than sales. > Second, there are good and bad dealers for most makes - it is > meaningless to make a decision on which make/model you're going to > buy based on a dealer. Not necesarrily. In my area there are only 2 SAAB dealerships within normal driving distance, one of whom are out to screw you at every service opportunity. If I had to rely on that one for service I would not buy SAABs. -Fred W > The point I was making was that the dealer/specialist bent over backwards > to make sure I was happy, and keep to keep his customers happy who > regularily spend ?10K on his cars.. Now, that's not so difficult to > understand.... is it? No, I understand it, and it's a good valid point. Buying from a dealer who *is* helpful when it comes to sorting out problems and sticking to their word regarding warranty issues, is a good idea if the price isn't extortionate (which it often can be). SignaturePeter Get Circumcised to e-mail me > > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves > em ..... presumably you realise that you need to read the small print on > that warranty before convincing yourself its a gift. Warranties on used > cars are not usually 'comprehensive' .... come to think of it, that applies > to warranties on new cars too... It is not a gift, it's a right. Due to European legislation there has to be a 1 year warranty on anything you buy from a professional (not private) seller -- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8 http://go.to/saab96 is that true??? So my 2nd hand car from a ford dealer should have a yrs w'tee without me having to buy an extended one rather than a 3 or 6 month dealer one??? >> > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > '87 900T8 > http://go.to/saab96 > is that true??? So my 2nd hand car from a ford dealer should have a yrs > w'tee without me having to buy an extended one rather than a 3 or 6 month [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> '87 900T8 >> http://go.to/saab96 I think that is indeed correct. Andy > What a response to the earlier thread... Thanks to all who responded... > Anyway, shirley it's time to bring that little post fest to a close. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Comments.... No flames please, I don't smoke..... very well. Sounds nice. Enjoy. > A 97P 528iSE 124K Manual, lthr int (new eng at 74K), 75% Service History, > ?4995 (Dealer) I think this is the one I would buy. I think these are absolutely excellent cars. > A 98R 97K Manual FSaabSH SAAB 9-5 2.3tSE Eco Saloon cloth int ?4000 (Saab > Specialist) > > I am approx 48 hours from buying ...... The 98/R SAAB. Nice. Let us know how you like it after a few weeks...I have a hankering for a 9-5est. cheers Glen > And just a little aside... The Saab specialist dealer is "INCLUDING" a > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves, and > "recommending", which ECU upgrades to go for.. How considerate.... Which Saab specialist dealer? Are we talking about franchise main dealer used car, or well know and respected independant? Can make a difference. Once you are into Saabs, word of mouth from local owners in your area can the difference between ownership being heaven or hell. What area of the country are you in? Signature"Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf" The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > > And just a little aside... The Saab specialist dealer is "INCLUDING" a > > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves, and > > "recommending", which ECU upgrades to go for.. How considerate.... > > > Which Saab specialist dealer? Based In South of England... Will let you know when I've closed the deal, so that I don't get gazumped.. LOL... > Are we talking about franchise main dealer used car, or well know and > respected independant? Respected Independent who also sells cars to larger Saab specialists in London > Can make a difference. Once you are into Saabs, word of mouth from local > owners in your area can the difference between ownership being heaven or > hell. True, which is also why I note everything about a dealer/specialist.. his attitude, his premises, his website, his stock, his prices, his staff, the facilities...etc > What area of the country are you in? London. >> Which Saab specialist dealer? > Based In South of England... Will let you know when I've closed the > deal, so that I don't get gazumped.. LOL... At which point, there's a mass cry of "Oh, god, not THAT bunch of scamming sharks..." > > > And just a little aside... The Saab specialist dealer is "INCLUDING" a > > > Comprehensive 12 month PARTS & Labour Warranty provided by themselves, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Based In South of England... Will let you know when I've closed the deal, so > that I don't get gazumped.. LOL... Fair enough, I've heard of most of the biggies. Used to drive a C900 T16S > > Are we talking about franchise main dealer used car, or well know and > > respected independant? > Respected Independent who also sells cars to larger Saab specialists in > London Sounds good so far, but doesn't mean they have don't different attitudes to trade and private customers. > > Can make a difference. Once you are into Saabs, word of mouth from local > > owners in your area can the difference between ownership being heaven or > > hell. > True, which is also why I note everything about a dealer/specialist.. > his attitude, his premises, his website, his stock, his prices, his staff, > the facilities...etc OK, Saabscene.co.uk and Saabcentral.com both have very active Saab only forums, and there is always the alt.autos.saab newsgroup too. If you are ever stuck for repair work "oop North" I can recommend Saab Higher Oak on the wrexham industrial estate just outside Chester, Saabtec in Glossop, or Malbrad in Huddersfield. Malbrad specialise in the older cars, but they know Saabs, and even if they can't personally check or fix the problem you are having, they will give honest advice about who can. Signature"Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf" The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > A 99/V 89K Manual FSaabSH SAAB 9-5 2.3tSE Airflow Saloon cloth int ?4995 > (Dealer) Just for the fun of it, I went to see this car today and take it for a test drive.... I came away with a mixed impression... Paperwork 10/10, Mot's, bills and new turbo from Turbo Technics in 1999...Hmmmmmm The cosmic blue bodywork was immaculate.. the sills weren't color coded, but weren't faded or shabby. Interior/boot was immaculate, all electrics worked. cup holder came out and flipped faultlessly. indicator am was very wobbly though. Climate control display was fine. No Harmon Kardon ICE though.. sigh.. Car started first time, quickly settled down to tick over, sounded like it had coped with the 87K since 1999 very well, but sounded slightly throaty inside... Took a look under bonnet and then question marks started to rise. under the hood, sounded like a whining coming from what "seemed to be" the cambelt area... & To the right of the engine, could also hear very noticable ticking. Don't know Saab engines (yet), but this stood out to me. Also under hood looked very clean... "steam clean" in fact. But I thought it was bad idea to steam clean Saab engines..? Anyway... Forgot to look at air filter... "The Owner/Dealer" wasn't there, but his staff were. Was given the keys and told to go and "take car for spin". I said thank you very much, pulled car out slowly, and edged slowly onto to main road. Handling, road hlolding was most excellent. Car felt very "young" for its age.. Once out of earshot and sight of dealership. I put my foot down. Then a very nice suprise... For "some" reason I could clearly hear the "fast&furious" turbo whistle kick in mixed with a throaty blurble of exhaust notes, followed by a suprising but welcome forward thrust.. Much more than the LPT torque I was expecting, but not as much as a 9000 CSE 2.3 FPT. It was fun, but didn't "feel" like 230+bhp of stage one.. (Which I expect would feel something like my old 215 bhp 89' 535iSE manual that shredded a jag v12 back in 96.) I returned to the dealership with a large grin, which was wiped off my face when I saw a tacky blue "turbo" sticker thingy next to the 9-5 on the boot lid.. I didn't like the spoiler, but that was the limit. I immediately began to think what sort of person would do this to a saab, and what other "molestation" had gone on under the bonnet.... Was worth the trip, but few question marks on leaving.... Comments ? > Was worth the trip, but few question marks on leaving.... Comments ? Any doubts, walk away, so I guess you're spot on. What happend to the older £4k one? > > Was worth the trip, but few question marks on leaving.... Comments ? > > Any doubts, walk away, so I guess you're spot on. > > What happend to the older ?4k one? Waiting for finance confirmation after handing over some required paperwork. Took the R'98 for a spin on Saturday as well. Drove very smooth, felt very solid, like a low mileage quality car, and no funny noises inside, even with radio off and windows up. But just didn't seem like 170 BHP of 2.3 turbo. I know dealer is not dodgy, Have given reg plate to insurers for insurance quote, and it came up R/98 2.3 lpt Ecopower. Saab Gilberts of Ealing, UK said maybe the "fast&furious" car was chipped, or the R'98 has turbo breather problem... but they said 2.3lpt is still supposed to be quick even at 170 bhp. So phoned R'98 dealer, and one of the dealer's engineers said he would check the car and compare the performance with a 2001Y 9-5 2.3 LPT Airflow they have. So still looking at 2.3 lpt 9-5's and 523/528 iSE's. > Waiting for finance confirmation after handing over some required paperwork. > Took the R'98 for a spin on Saturday as well. Drove very smooth, felt very [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > supposed to be quick even at > 170 bhp. But these cars weigh like 2 tons? So 170bhp is going to be quite lacking there, no? > > Waiting for finance confirmation after handing over some required paperwork. > > Took the R'98 for a spin on Saturday as well. Drove very smooth, felt very [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But these cars weigh like 2 tons? So 170bhp is going to be quite lacking > there, no? 0-60 in 8.0s (aut 9.0s) Top Speed 137mph 40-60 in 4th 7.7 50-70 in 5th 11.0 fuel, combined cycle 29.4 mpg SignatureRichard Sutherland-Smith 19 Webb Road, Wanganui 5001, New Zealand |
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