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Car Forum / Saab Cars / March 2005

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2004 9-3 aero bad in snow

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Tex - 22 Feb 2005 15:56 GMT
I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.  This
car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased that it
couldn't even get me up a small, somewhat snowy incline, at low speed (as an
AWD Volvo and an old Ford Escort zipped right past me up the hill).  The AWD
clearly has the advantage but the Escort???

I realize snow tires would help, but would they markedly improve snow
weather performance?  It's disastrous, as of right now in the snow.

- tex
The Malt Hound - 22 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT
>I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.
>This car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> snow weather performance?  It's disastrous, as of right now in the
> snow.

It's like night an day.  A 9-3 is actually a pretty good car to drive
in the snow.  But you absolutely *have* to get winter tires.

That goes for any car.  I'll bet the escort had snows on?

-Fred W
Tex - 22 Feb 2005 16:44 GMT
> It's like night an day.  A 9-3 is actually a pretty good car to drive in
> the snow.  But you absolutely *have* to get winter tires.

That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm guessing my
choices for these specific rims will be fairly limited.

> That goes for any car.  I'll bet the escort had snows on?

I suspect so, but it drove by fairly quick...and that lettering on the tires
was just way too small for me to read from afar ;-)

- tex
Dave Hinz - 22 Feb 2005 17:04 GMT
>> It's like night an day.  A 9-3 is actually a pretty good car to drive in
>> the snow.  But you absolutely *have* to get winter tires.
>
> That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm guessing my
> choices for these specific rims will be fairly limited.

Nokian snowtires are made in Finland - they know a lot about snow up
there.  I've been driving on them for years and wouldn't consider
anything else now.
Viktor Haag - 23 Feb 2005 15:47 GMT
>> It's like night an day.  A 9-3 is actually a pretty good car
>> to drive in the snow.  But you absolutely *have* to get winter
>> tires.

Amen. Both the 9-3 and 9-5 drive INFINITELY better in the winter
time with winter gear on the wheels. I even noticed a substantial
difference when switching off my P6 OEM all seasons from my 9-5
this season.

>> That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm
>> guessing my choices for these specific rims will be fairly
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> snow up there.  I've been driving on them for years and
> wouldn't consider anything else now.

I have used Michelin Pilot Alpins on my Saabs for six years now,
and have no complaints; they wear well, and grip well. They are,
however, pretty expensive and that would've bothered me if they
didn't seem to be so long-lived.

I've heard really good things about Nokian tires, but a lot of
the models are studded, and thus not usable in the province where
I live (Ontario) as far as I know (afaik, we're a "salt"
province, not a "studs" province, pfeh); accordingly, finding a
local Nokian dealer was not easy... there's only one place in the
area that I know of that sells them, and I know nothing about
them. Accordingly, I stuck with the place I knew, and the
Michelins.

Signature

Viktor Haag : Senior Technical Writer : Research In Motion

Dave Hinz - 23 Feb 2005 16:28 GMT
> I've heard really good things about Nokian tires, but a lot of
> the models are studded, and thus not usable in the province where
> I live (Ontario) as far as I know (afaik, we're a "salt"
> province, not a "studs" province, pfeh);

Nokian tires _can be_ studded, but don't ship from Finland that way.
The wholesaler (or retailer) needs to stud them, if they're going to
a place where they are allowed.

> accordingly, finding a
> local Nokian dealer was not easy... there's only one place in the
> area that I know of that sells them, and I know nothing about
> them.

I don't know if he ships to Canada, but Pat Greer at Greer Enterprises
in Milwaukee (Wisconsin) could probably give you a local source if he
can't send 'em to you.  If nothing else, he'll give you a free lesson
on tires without bullshitting you.  switchboad.com has his number.

Dave Hinz


Shane Almeida - 23 Feb 2005 17:07 GMT
> I don't know if he ships to Canada, but Pat Greer at Greer Enterprises
> in Milwaukee (Wisconsin) could probably give you a local source if he
> can't send 'em to you.  If nothing else, he'll give you a free lesson
> on tires without bullshitting you.  switchboad.com has his number.

He's got a website too, but the email address listed is wrong.
http://www.dias.net/~greerent/
Gary Fritz - 22 Feb 2005 17:14 GMT
> That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm
> guessing my choices for these specific rims will be fairly
> limited.

Don't stick with those rims.  They usually recommend taller/skinnier
profile for snow tires, and anyway it's a lot simpler and cheaper to
swap in your winter wheels than to put the snows on & off the rims
every year.  

Maybe try some 16" Gislaveds, or Nokian Hakkapelittas.  Or check into
the Green Diamond tires -- recycled rubber (eco-friendly, but not
retreads), embedded carbide crystals give great traction on ice.
Dima - 22 Feb 2005 17:52 GMT
I used Nokian NRW on my '97 900, which were marketed as aggressive all
season/snow tires for performance vehicles. I was really happy with it. This
model was discontinued, but there are good replacements. www.nokiantires.com 
is a good source of information. Gislaveds are good too, but definitely get
different set of wheels. Really bad idea and bad for the tires to have them
mounted/unmounted twice a year, and a set of steel wheels would be cheaper
than prematurely replacing the expensive low-profile tires that go on the
9-5 Aeros.

I am actually interested to pursue this thread further, but I will re-start
it under a different subject.

-Dima

>> That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm
>> guessing my choices for these specific rims will be fairly
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> the Green Diamond tires -- recycled rubber (eco-friendly, but not
> retreads), embedded carbide crystals give great traction on ice.
dxyzc@nospam.com - 23 Feb 2005 00:50 GMT
>>That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm
>>guessing my choices for these specific rims will be fairly
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> the Green Diamond tires -- recycled rubber (eco-friendly, but not
> retreads), embedded carbide crystals give great traction on ice.

Definitely get 16" wheels whether steel or alloy.  You SAAB dealer might
cut you a good deal on 16" Winter Alloys and Winter Tires.  Mine did
(Borbet and Nokian Hak).  Don't trash your 17" wheels in the winter!

D
Shane Almeida - 22 Feb 2005 18:02 GMT
>> It's like night an day.  A 9-3 is actually a pretty good car to drive in
>> the snow.  But you absolutely *have* to get winter tires.
>
> That's good to hear.  Any particular recommendations?  I'm guessing my
> choices for these specific rims will be fairly limited.

I had the same problem with my 9-3.  The Pirelli PZero Rossos are,
obviously, terrible in the snow.  I shopped around for tires and ended up
getting the winter tire package that my dealer had.  The package is four
16x6.5" Arc wheels (10 spoke) and Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW3 tires
(215/55-R16) mounted and balanced for $1050 (installation may be extra - I
installed them myself).

I was looking at getting a set Nokians and keeping my 17x7" wheels, but
the price of the tires (225/45-R17), mounting and balancing, and
installation would have been around $800.  You could get a set of cheap
steel wheels and save some money, but I wanted something a little nicer.  
I figured for 200 bucks more I should just get the package, get a nice set
of dedicated winter wheels, and save myself the hassle of having to
remount the tires twice a year.

The Goodyears are decent tires.  I can't compare them to anything else
(besides the PZero Rossos) because they're the only tires I've used.  
They are mud and snow tires (M+S) and have the snowflake on the mountain
symbol.  I can get up my driveway, stop safely at intersections, and kick
up nice rooster tails, so I'm happy with them.
Tex - 24 Feb 2005 04:11 GMT
> I had the same problem with my 9-3.  The Pirelli PZero Rossos are,
> obviously, terrible in the snow.  I shopped around for tires and ended up
> getting the winter tire package that my dealer had.  The package is four
> 16x6.5" Arc wheels (10 spoke) and Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW3 tires
> (215/55-R16) mounted and balanced for $1050 (installation may be extra - I
> installed them myself).

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  I contacted the dealer , and they offer
a set of wheels...alloys + the goodyear ultra grips, you mentioned.  My
salesman said he could get me a price of $900 installed.

- tex
Shane Almeida - 24 Feb 2005 13:55 GMT
> Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  I contacted the dealer , and they offer
> a set of wheels...alloys + the goodyear ultra grips, you mentioned.  My
> salesman said he could get me a price of $900 installed.

That's a darn good deal considering Saab charges $222 each for those Arc
wheels.  You just got a nice set of snow tires for 12 bucks.
The Malt Hound - 24 Feb 2005 14:11 GMT
>> I had the same problem with my 9-3.  The Pirelli PZero Rossos are,
>> obviously, terrible in the snow.  I shopped around for tires and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> mentioned.  My salesman said he could get me a price of $900
> installed.

That's a fine deal.  I'd go for it in a minute.  You could get a steel
wheel package cheaper, but it's well worth the extra $$ for the
alloys, as long as you don't go banging any curbs with them.

-Fred W
Onejob - 22 Feb 2005 19:22 GMT
> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.
> This car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - tex

Oh yes!! I took a trip to the French Alps to deliver a tape a few weeks
ago. I hadn't intended to stay long!

Everyone else was zipping around and I couldn't even drive over a 3
inch ridge of ice/snow to start out the next morning! I had to walk
into the nearest town, buy some chains and "re-adapt" them for the
wheels, just so I could drive 3kms back down the mountain and below the
snow line.

It was so embarrassing but at least it looked the dog's bollocks,
gleaming laser red in the white snow as I swore and cursed getting the
chains on!

I'll fly next time.

SP.
dxyzc@nospam.com - 23 Feb 2005 00:46 GMT
> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.  This
> car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased that it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - tex

The Pirellis are high performance summer tires!  Get some Nokian winter
tires.  With ESP and good snow tires the car is great in the snow.

D
SuoTimo - 23 Feb 2005 09:42 GMT
> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.  This
> car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased that it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - tex

___________________________

As previously mentioned the winter tires need to be less wider (=higher profile) than
summer tires - I'd go to 15" rims and probably 60 or 65 / max 185...

In snow & ice conditions narrower has actually more friction and tire doesn't start to act
as a pair of skies in slush.

You got already good suggestions for brand,,, they do constantly produce good winter tires
in my neighbouring town...

Been driving on snow & ice every winter for 20 years,,,

-SuoTimo
____________________________
The Malt Hound - 23 Feb 2005 14:32 GMT
> As previously mentioned the winter tires need to be less wider
> (=higher profile) than
> summer tires - I'd go to 15" rims and probably 60 or 65 / max 185...

Being an Aero, I seem to recall that he may not be able to fit the
brakes into a 15" rim.  In any case, use the smallest rim diameter you
can and get a narrowest tire patch (as advised) for best snow
performance.  If you want to compromise between best snow performance
and not completely screweing up your dry road performance between
snowstorms, go with something in between.  The key is getting the
winter tires on there...

-Fred W
Shane Almeida - 23 Feb 2005 21:39 GMT
> Being an Aero, I seem to recall that he may not be able to fit the
> brakes into a 15" rim.  In any case, use the smallest rim diameter you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> snowstorms, go with something in between.  The key is getting the
> winter tires on there...

According to the manual, acceptable winter tire sizes for the Aero are
215/55 R16 93 Q on 6.5x16" or 225/45 R17 94 Q M+S RF/XL on 17x7".  In
addition to those two, the Arc can also use 205/55 R16 91 Q on 16x6.5".  
In addition to those three, the Linear can also use 205/65 R15 94 Q on
15x6.5".
Fredrik Borch Lynghaug - 13 Mar 2005 18:32 GMT
> > I realize snow tires would help, but would they markedly improve snow
> > weather performance?  It's disastrous, as of right now in the snow.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> In snow & ice conditions narrower has actually more friction and tire
> doesn't start to act as a pair of skies in slush.

I heavily support this. Narrower wheels and higher profile gets you
better grip on snowy roads. Higher profile is no point alone, but is
conected with the with of the tires, which makes the difference.
Therefore wintertyres are much softer. The better gip on snow, the
softer on asphalt. When I in the autumn put on the wintertyres (with
narrower rims) I always make a braketest to get an idea of what the
difference is. It's huge!

On my Saab 99, 1983, I use 185/65 R15 tyres on 15" rims.
-I know, it's a very different car to drive.
Fredrik
Norway
ma_twain - 27 Feb 2005 04:32 GMT
> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.  This
> car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased that it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - tex

Snow tires make all the difference.  I "amazed" the owner of a four
wheel drive Jeep when I drove up his driveway one winter.  I thought he
was being nice by parking his Jeep on the road.  It turns out he could
not get up his driveway.  I had dedicated snow tires on my Saab :-)

The real reason you use four snow tires is not so you can go - stopping
and steering are far more important than being able to go.  My 1986 900
with the 8 valve engine was the best snow car I ever had.  It was
underpowered and had a manual transmission, which made it perfect for
the snow. It was perfectly controllable and lots of fun in the snow and
ice :-) I miss that car :-(
Onejob - 06 Mar 2005 15:46 GMT
> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.
> This car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> - tex

I had to smile yesterday! A local news report here in the UK was
reporting how disruptive and terrible our "big freeze" was i.e. 6
inches of snow over 3 days. Lughable in itself BUT then it showed a
queue of stationary traffic with a not so stationary car heading for
the rear of the queue, sliding out of control. It narrowly misses.

No prizes for guessing what the car was. A 2004 9-3 Aero! The next
morning, I left the Saab in the drive and took my Vectra instead!

SP.
Robert - 06 Mar 2005 16:10 GMT
>>I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.
>>This car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> SP.

Hard to know whether to laugh or cry over the total incompetence of the
people who think that wide summer tyres on 17 in. rims are something to
use when the temperature is under +3C, let alone snow and ice.
Unfortunately these kind of idiots don't just harm themselves. Many bad
accidents, many deaths, until winter tyres became law here (Sweden).

But maybe British drivers are better snow-and-ice drivers on summer
tyres, than their Swedish counterparts?

It is not the car which is at fault. The latest Saab 9-3 is an excellent
winter car (as are so many other cars, including my 2WD Audi A4), on the
condition that proper winter tyres (preferably narrow, high-profile
ones) are fitted to all 4 wheels.

In many places, snowfall and freezing conditions are so infrequent that
they don't merit buying a set of winter roadwheels. But then the car
should be left in the driveway until the snow clears.

And for those who have AWD cars - just because you can accelerate better
with AWD and traction control, doesn't mean that you can stop any better
than a 2WD car.

<climbs off the soap box>

/Robert
Onejob - 08 Mar 2005 23:23 GMT
BIG SNIP

That's a BLOODY great soap box you got there. And as for the term
IDIOT, realistcally, I think you're a bit of a twat myself.

Look at it this way, if you're capable. In this part of the UK we will
have no more than 4 days in the year which there is ice or snow on the
road. 4 days in a whole year. Studs and chains are ILLEGAL. We are not
allowed to use them. So the only option is another set of tyres... for
4 days.

My car is a UK spec and cost 29,000 GPB (around 60,000 USD) and came
with summer tyres. I was not told that they were summer tyres. My other
car has always run fine on one set of tyres. Why should I even question
it? It's part of the car as supplied. Why the f.ck should I spend out
another wad of money on fresh tryes for 4 days. Saab should put on all
seasons to get through the "typically uneventful" British winter. The
summer tyres should be put on cars sold in warmer climates.

So don't label everyone who ventures out on those 4 days as idiots. If
we don't see snow, we don't think about it often. We don't have to plan
how we drive in it or even pay much attention to what type of tyres we
have. Simply speaking, the tyres I have ARE DANGEROUS in ice. We get
ice here, therefore the car is DANGEROUS for around 4 days in the year.
So:

a) The car should not be allowed to be sold as it is with those tyres
as it is dangerous to drive in certain conditions that are not
considered extreme OR

b) When the car is sold to a customer, he should be warned that "under
no circumstances should you take your new 60,000 dollar car in the ice
or snow because the tyres you have are sh.t.... sir".
dxyzc@nospam.com - 09 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT
> BIG SNIP
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> no circumstances should you take your new 60,000 dollar car in the ice
> or snow because the tyres you have are sh.t.... sir".

If you don't know, then don't buy a performance car.  Or leave the car
at home on those days.  If you bought a Corvette in Alaska would you
expect it to come with snow tires?  Or logic is lacking...
Dave Hinz - 09 Mar 2005 15:21 GMT
> BIG SNIP
>
> That's a BLOODY great soap box you got there. And as for the term
> IDIOT, realistcally, I think you're a bit of a twat myself.

Who are you talking to?  You didn't include any context or attributes.
Generally when you're throwing insults around, it's a good idea to
specify who you're insulting, and for what.
Dexter J - 09 Mar 2005 16:06 GMT
Salutations:

>> BIG SNIP
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Generally when you're throwing insults around, it's a good idea to
> specify who you're insulting, and for what.

I'm afraid I must concur - I don't think I've ever called anyone an  
'idiot' in this group and felt I passed along some good tips regarding  
foul weather driving that apply to anyone stuck with summer duty rubber in  
a pinch.

As to sales and engineering warnings regarding driving conditions - unless  
GM substantially changed the owners manual - SAAB used go on at length  
about what to expect and do about ice and snow conditions. Not that I'm  
ever likely to buy a 9^3/^5 myself - but I would be very interested to  
know if the manual has changed in that regard.

Personally - and again I'm not trying to tick you off or anything here - I  
put the winters on in the fall and leave them on well into the late spring  
because one of the other things a good winter tire will do for you (I've  
had luck with Kumho - although I'm trying DSP's this year) is  
substantially lower the risks of hydroplaning in heavy rain or skating on  
mud and/or leaves that get washed onto the road at both ends of the season  
here.

Anyway - sorry you feel group jumped you on this one. Happy motoring none  
the less.

--

Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day
Thomas Dolby - Hyperactive
http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/084.RAM

all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads
no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time

Dexter J's fab SAAB 900 for sale:
http://www.dexterdyne.org/310.HTM
John Hudson - 09 Mar 2005 17:56 GMT
Having parted with ?29,000 you have my deepest sympathy.
> BIG SNIP
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> no circumstances should you take your new 60,000 dollar car in the ice
> or snow because the tyres you have are sh.t.... sir".
Robert - 09 Mar 2005 21:12 GMT
> BIG SNIP
>
> That's a BLOODY great soap box you got there. And as for the term
> IDIOT, realistcally, I think you're a bit of a twat myself.

You're entitled to your opinion.

> Look at it this way, if you're capable. In this part of the UK we will
> have no more than 4 days in the year which there is ice or snow on the
> road. 4 days in a whole year. Studs and chains are ILLEGAL. We are not
> allowed to use them. So the only option is another set of tyres... for
> 4 days.

Yes, I'm quite capable of seeing the situation that way. My having that
view is why you called me a twat in the first place.

> My car is a UK spec and cost 29,000 GPB (around 60,000 USD) and came
> with summer tyres. I was not told that they were summer tyres. My other
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> seasons to get through the "typically uneventful" British winter. The
> summer tyres should be put on cars sold in warmer climates.

You should really make a decision about whom you're criticising here. Do
you want to criticise me for finding fault with drivers who drive on
summer tyres in snowy conditions, or do you prefer to criticise the UK
dealers because they don't take the trouble to remind you that your
summer tyres are summer tyres, not designed for freezing, snowy, or icy
conditions?

> So don't label everyone who ventures out on those 4 days as idiots.

If we're talking about conditions where there's a great risk of crashing
due to loss of grip, then yes, anyone not leaving their car parked
during those days is a danger to other road users and is thus an idiot.

> If
> we don't see snow, we don't think about it often. We don't have to plan
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> no circumstances should you take your new 60,000 dollar car in the ice
> or snow because the tyres you have are sh.t.... sir".

You seem to be more preoccupied with the fact that the car costs almost
30000 quid, that its price tag should make it more immune to bad weather
conditions.

That's a superb car you have there. Put on 195 or 205 tyres on 16in
steel rims and it will be wonderful on snow and ice. Even with studless
winter tyres it will be very obedient and forgiving, as long as you
don't push the envelope too much.

Of course it's probably a bad investment to buy winter roadwheels for
only half a week of snow every year - unless you're so dependent on the
car for those few days. I think I understand the dilemma. No fun to
watch a Ford Escort whiz by either ;-) In Sweden, there can be such bad
conditions that some drivers with AWD and studded tyres will still elect
to garage the car for safety reasons. No shame in that.

But don't put all-season tyres on the car. They really take the joy out
of summer driving (I haven't tried but I've heard from others).

/Robert
Dexter J - 07 Mar 2005 02:51 GMT
Salutations:

>> I recently purchased a 2004 9-3 Aero...with the 17" wheels/pirellis.
>> This car, as is, stinks in the snow.  This morning, I was embarrased
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> SP.

Being from Nova Scotia - a relatively small outcropping of north Atlantic  
rock on the Laurentian Abyss on an isthmus to the east of Canada just  
below the Arctic Circle - please let me chip in (off?) some perhaps  
helpful advise here. The port of Halifax, my home town, being where most  
of that World War Two convoy footage of ice covered merchantmen bravely  
heading out to an uncertain future was filmed.

Basically - there are four great tricks to successfully winter driving.  
Correct tires and pressure - lower gears - weight distribution - throttle  
control.

Proper winter tires at the lower end of the recommended pressure range,  
teamed with weight distribution towards the drive wheels (in this case -  
to the front), will allow you to use lower gears and throttle control to  
maintain forward momentum by combining the previous elements to create  
osculating traction.

So - while it is still legal and encouraged here to annually fit tire  
studs - I have found most of my SAAB's over the years have been perfectly  
satisfied with just a mid-grade set of winter shoes - which I retire the  
second spring.

All Seasons are a suckers game and well worth avoiding in my books.

I keep the trunk/boot extra empty and tidy and make sure the rear springs  
and shocks are in good fettle in the fall. I also tend to keep it 3/4  
fuelled rather than topped up - as a full tank tends to put a bit more  
weight in the rear than is desirable in later generation SAAB's.

Now - I happen to have the 5 speed '93 Aero with TCS which, while much  
maligned - does actually really work when working.

The system actually put me in exactly the opposite situation to yours on  
Toyo's during a surprise early season blizzard last November where I  
sailed on up a steep ice covered hill - right on by a Mercedes 4-matic, a  
jetta and a Subaru - all spinning and nudging along on the shoulder trying  
to get to the gravel (which is a good place to find traction next time you  
are caught on your summers without a TCS fettled machine BTW).

A slow, steady application of power - sort of in reverse of ABS, which is  
to say as sort of pumping your throttle ever so gently as you would have  
once pumped your non-ABS brakes on an earlier car - will do a *much*  
better job of keeping you moving than anything else. While you might find  
pavement by heavy spinning - you will only find it for a moment and you  
are very literally sending a potentially fatal shock-wave back through  
your differential and transmission every time you momentarily catch  
pavement.

If you have been caught out unprepared in a snap - get your trusty tire  
gauge out and carefully adjust the air pressure in your front tires to the  
very lower end of the acceptable pressure range. This will achieve two  
important things:

You will heat up your tires slightly more on what dry patches you are  
crossing - which is very important when you hit the slippery bits.

It will allow your tires to more readily release snow and ice from the  
tread as they flex more in rotation. Which will keep you moving over the  
slippery bits.

Remember to top them back up if you aren't replacing them with winters in  
the immediate future and for the love of god - keep the speeds down until  
you can do one or the other. De-rimming is ugly any time of the year.

Finally - buy a 5 pound bag of kitty litter and drop in with the spare.  
It's a lifesaver when needed, doesn't weigh as much as sand for the volume  
and doesn't rust out your floor pan when it gets wet like rock salt. In a  
real pinch - you can also try splashing down your tires and the immediate  
surface in front of them with liquid bleach. But be careful - it will rot  
off whatever you are wearing before you get home if you splash yourself.

I guess that's it - the rest should be self-evident if you've lived long  
enough to get the loan to buy the SAAB.

Cheers and better motoring brothers.

--

Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day
Santana - Lowrider
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Motorhead Lawyer - 09 Mar 2005 18:21 GMT
> If you have been caught out unprepared in a snap - get your trusty tire
> gauge out and carefully adjust the air pressure in your front tires to the
> very lower end of the acceptable pressure range. This will achieve two
> important things:
>
> You will heat up your tires slightly more on what dry patches you are

> crossing - which is very important when you hit the slippery bits.

Ummm, that will heat up the *sidewalls* of your tires, but have little
effect on the treads.  In addition, it is very destructive of the
internal structures of the tires.  I'd never try it.  I find my winter
tires shed snow quite nicely, thank you.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
Dexter J - 09 Mar 2005 21:33 GMT
Salutations:

>> If you have been caught out unprepared in a snap - get your trusty
> tire
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)

Me too and I think I qualified myself clearly - "lower end of acceptable  
range". I also carefully noted later that you should reinflate to regular  
pressure or change to winters ASAP. It was/is emergency traction advise.

As to sidewall heating - yes - however that effect will keep the snow from  
blocking up on the outer trend release edge in the pinch. Though also  
snipped in your reply - the actually important bit noted later is to keep  
the tire flexing so that snow and ice is cleared from the treads while  
rolling.

However, given your concerns - anyone reading this should appriciate that  
the entire advise noted here:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=a+relatively+small+outcropping+of+north+Atlanti
c++++rock+on+the+Laurentian+Abyss&hl=en&lr=&group=alt.autos.saab&scoring=d&selm=
opsm8yecwungtaow%40news.eastlink.ca&rnum=1


.. is based on getting caught in a bind without the correct rubber or in  
conditions where the correct rubber still isn't enough..

Please excuse me if anyone has taken that to mean that they should run low  
tire pressures through the winters - which as brother Krieger correctly  
points out - is hard on your rubber and not my advise at all.

Cheers..

--

Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day
Thomas Dolby - Hyperactive
http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/084.RAM

all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads
no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time

Dexter J's fab SAAB 900 for sale:
http://www.dexterdyne.org/310.HTM
 
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