the wraparound windshield to return!

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Tex - 23 Mar 2005 16:43 GMT

Article on Saab product focus for the future:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102024

"We will see and feel the aero heritage in next-generation Saabs," Forster
said. He promised a return to the wraparound windshield: "It is like the
canopy of an aircraft. How can you possibly give that up?"

- tex

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Johannes H Andersen - 23 Mar 2005 17:11 GMT

> Article on Saab product focus for the future:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> - tex

Maybe for a coupe model. The rest sound like the end of Saab:

"In a sense, building the next 9-3 in Germany is just a continuation
of GM's policy of globally interchangeable plants"

and

"Saab CEO Peter Augustsson was a staunch defender of the "Swedish-ness"
of Saab, so it was hardly surprising when GM announced he would leave
the company"

and

"Front-drive is no longer a core value for Saab"

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Tex - 23 Mar 2005 19:02 GMT

> "In a sense, building the next 9-3 in Germany is just a continuation
> of GM's policy of globally interchangeable plants"

Agreed, but let's face it, Saab has a history of relying on others for parts
and to some extent plants. That's nothing really new.

> "Saab CEO Peter Augustsson was a staunch defender of the "Swedish-ness"
> of Saab, so it was hardly surprising when GM announced he would leave
> the company"

I think it'd be akin to shooting themselves in the foot if GM threw away
Saab's "Swedish" DNA...that's, to a large extent, its greatest appeal.

> "Front-drive is no longer a core value for Saab"

This can certainly be debated. I admit, I go back and forth on this.
Clinging to a technological achievement of decades ago is no way to run a
car company today. Plus, it takes a lot more than just FWD to make a car
stick to wet/icy/snowy pavement (perhaps the primary impetus for
FWD)...namely good gripping tires/rims (as my recent posts concur...my FWD
9-3 Aero with its factory supplied tires/rims are awful in snow). Further,
FWD has its weaknesses....it lends itself to torque steer w/today's high
output engines, and it will never be a performer vs RWD and AWD vehicles in
its class.

I'd say a true core value of Saab, while linked to FWD, has more to do with
sure-footed, performance driving than with FWD itself as a single piece of
technology. That said, the obvious next choice is an AWD model. This would
keep Saab squarely in line wth that core value. Unfortunately, the only
current AWD Saab model isn't even a Saab. Further, Saab would now look like
a mere imitator/wannabe (of AWD Audis and Volvos) rather than an innovator.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating dropping FWD. FWD has proven to be a
worthy piece of automotive technology, but not one that is exclusive to
Saabs anymore.

- tex

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ma_twain - 24 Mar 2005 02:53 GMT

>>"In a sense, building the next 9-3 in Germany is just a continuation
>> of GM's policy of globally interchangeable plants"
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> output engines, and it will never be a performer vs RWD and AWD vehicles in
> its class.

FWD has more torque steer if the drive shafts are different lengths. To
be fair, compare apples to apples. I drive a rear wheel drive Volvo and
Classic Saabs. Guess which one I prefer in the snow? The old 245 does
not have torque steer because it does not have enough torque to induce
torque steer, but they just keep on running for decades :-) The Saabs
with the same horsepower do not have torque steer either. With the price
of gas today, I wonder how much longer we will have these high output
engines. I find the engine in my C900 turbo with the red box is more
than adequate to get me in trouble on public roads - I don't need a 9-3
Aero.

> I'd say a true core value of Saab, while linked to FWD, has more to do with
> sure-footed, performance driving than with FWD itself as a single piece of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> - tex

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Johannes H Andersen - 24 Mar 2005 12:32 GMT

[...]

> FWD has more torque steer if the drive shafts are different lengths. To
> be fair, compare apples to apples. I drive a rear wheel drive Volvo and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> than adequate to get me in trouble on public roads - I don't need a 9-3
> Aero.

Yes, this is what I think, I'm more that happy with my 150bhp lpt. But this
business is more about image. A saab with less bhp than a Skoda or an Astra?
No we can't have that. Saab is bound to climb the performance ladder, and
this will require AWD and bigger engines with more cyl. I'm very worried
that the 9-5 will turn into a RWD Opel Omega, the same platform host the
180mph monster brute Vauxhall Monaro VXR 398bhp 6LV8, a but hardly with
the technical finesse of Saab.

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James Sweet - 24 Mar 2005 08:25 GMT

> I'd say a true core value of Saab, while linked to FWD, has more to do with
> sure-footed, performance driving than with FWD itself as a single piece of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> worthy piece of automotive technology, but not one that is exclusive to
> Saabs anymore.

Though a Saab 900 was the first car that made me even consider FWD as an
option, prior to that I was very much set on RWD, really liking how my
Volvos handle. I still like RWD but Saab did FWD right and that car is a
blast to drive.

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Craig's C900 Site - 23 Mar 2005 19:53 GMT

>> Article on Saab product focus for the future:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>> - tex

>Maybe for a coupe model. The rest sound like the end of Saab:

> "In a sense, building the next 9-3 in Germany is just a continuation
> of GM's policy of globally interchangeable plants"

>and

> "Saab CEO Peter Augustsson was a staunch defender of the "Swedish-ness"
> of Saab, so it was hardly surprising when GM announced he would leave
> the company"

And it not surprising that as soon as he leaves, GM announces formerly that
they want to make Saab's in Bavaria and other places where the cars will end
up looking like US-ified BMW's or Opel's if nothing else.

>and

> "Front-drive is no longer a core value for Saab"

That's because it has never been a core value for GM, which follows on from
GM's tech people not having any idea how to design FWD vehicles.

But it's one of the things which has made Saab's (especially the C900's)
stand out as a marque.

Regards,

Craig.

Signature

Craig's Saab C900 Page --> http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 Sydney, NSW Australia
Craig's Saab C900 Workshop -- For all Saab C900 Enthusiasts world-wide!
http://www.saab900classic.net http://www.saab900.org c900@lios.apana.org.au
Come and explore our site, and check out our web-forums, mailing list, etc.

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Tex - 24 Mar 2005 02:57 GMT

> And it not surprising that as soon as he leaves, GM announces formerly

I think you mean "formally".

> that
> they want to make Saab's in Bavaria and other places where the cars will
> end
> up looking like US-ified BMW's or Opel's if nothing else.

Not true. Russelheim is in Hesse not Bavaria. At this point, it is pure
speculation what future Saabs will look like. Will they look like today's
Saabs? Maybe. More than likely, in whatever form they arrive, they will
undoubtedly carry on the Saab "DNA". Many people say I look similar to my
father, but few people would mistake me for actually _being_ my father.
That surely doesn't make me bad, just different.

GM Europe (Carl Peter Forster) has essentially taken over as head of Saab.
In short, Saab/Sweden will design the vehicles but their ultimate production
fate will go through GM Europe's upper management (Forster) first. Clearly,
if you've read the press lately, you'll know GM is under the gun to produce
vehicles that are first and foremost, profitable. GM is tired blowing wads
of cash at their European operations. Unfortunately, what they perceive as
higher volume/profit-making cars isn't necessarily what you or I want as a
vehicle.

I actually like the current 9-3 and 9-5s...however, in my view, they suffer
from a few poor design decisions, and some low quality components and
workmanship. This is unacceptable coming from such an expensive car.

> But it's one of the things which has made Saab's (especially the C900's)
> stand out as a marque.

Correct, but now every manufacturer has FWD cars. So Saab is no longer
alone on the FWD podium. It's not really much of a competitive advantage
any more. Yes, you could probably well argue that Saab pioneered FWD
technology so they inherently must be the best at its execution. Maybe,
maybe not. Consumers no longer recognize the difference between various
manufacturers FWD implementations. If they sit a FWD Audi side by side with
a FWD Saab, most consumers would say, on that level, they must be
equivalent.

- tex

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Dima - 24 Mar 2005 18:21 GMT

Tex,

I love the newer Saabs as much as I do the older ones; I came to love the
marque through a purchase of a 1997 900SE. However, my hope are not very
high. The following link from Business Week does an honest analysis of GM's
business strategy, with a conclusion that some of GM "brands" must closed,
with Pontiac and Saab topping the list.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/mar2005/nf20050317_3493_db016.htm

I think in light of this analysis, any hope of a promised wraparound
windshield is beginning to wane. When the money is not flowing, a
beautifully thought out project can be stopped in the middle, and the people
involved fired.

I would love to see a future Saab with a wraparound windshield, and some
innovative engine technology, which would allow it to reinvent itself like
it did in the 70's. My bet though is that the best chance for Saab is to be
sold to a successful auto company that truly is interested in it being a
Saab. I hope this buyer company won't be one of the upcoming Chinese
automakers though :-)

-Dima

>> And it not surprising that as soon as he leaves, GM announces formerly
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> - tex

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