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Car Forum / Saab Cars / May 2005Ignition cassette failure? (2001 95 2.3T)
My wife was driving my 2001 95 2.3T (40k miles on it) on the highway doing around 70mph when the car simply died. No power. This car is in MINT condition. I bought it used w/ 20k on it about four months ago. I determined that it is not getting spark by pulling the ignition casset, puting a plug in it, grounded the plug and turning it over. No spark. Turns over just fine. I talked with a couple of different Saab machanics that I know and they both said the same thing. "Your ignition rack is gone". Well I bought some OBD2 scanning hardware/software and while the software seems to work, it reports no DTCs. My question s are: 1) Would all 4 coil packs go at once? Would it just die mid stride? 2)if my ignition cassette has failed, should I expect to see a DTC comming from the OBD2 scanner? Any help is greatly appreciated. I would really like to be sure of the problem before I lay out 500 bucks for a non-returnable part. Thanks very much, John Hooven > My wife was driving my 2001 95 2.3T (40k miles on it) on the > highway doing around 70mph when the car simply died. No power. This car [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are: > 1) Would all 4 coil packs go at once? Would it just die mid stride? Usually there are some intermittent symptoms a couple of days in advance of complete failure. 40k miles is a bit early for this. One of the coils may burn out and disable the whole cassette. The cassette is not repairable. > 2)if my ignition cassette has failed, should I expect to see a DTC > comming from the OBD2 scanner? > > Any help is greatly appreciated. I would really like to be sure of > the problem before I lay out 500 bucks for a non-returnable part. Shop around on the internet and you might find a cheaper cassette. It's a simple DIY job to replace the ignition cassette. FWIW, the cassette on my '99 9.3 went "just like that" at about 60K, although I wasn't driving it at the time. It was running/starting fine, parked the car, went to start the car again and, she's a no good. Cranked like a banshee, farted a couple of times, but wouldn't start. Until the cassette was replaced. G'luck, M > My wife was driving my 2001 95 2.3T (40k miles on it) on the > highway doing around 70mph when the car simply died. No power. This car [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks very much, > John Hooven Here ya go: <http://www.eeuroparts.com/(icxdzb455gffo055vzsz2n45)/searchresults.aspx?&carid=1 196&cat=1010> save yourself over $200 and replace it yourself. Very easy. And even if it does not turn out to be the problem *this* time, it will eventually fail and you will be glad you have one on hand. But I'd bet it is the problem. -Fred W Thank you so much for the link! You saved me almost $200 over the dealer. They wanted $460. eEuroparts.com: $289. Next day shipping $34! Thanks again! John Hooven > Thank you so much for the link! You saved me almost $200 over the > dealer. They wanted $460. eEuroparts.com: $289. Next day shipping $34! As mentioned, it's also a problem, if the cassette has been turned upside down. So when you replace the old cassette, remember to let it sit for a least half an hour, before you try to fire up the engine - so the (cooling) oil can run back down, inside the DI-cassette. Cheers! Remember guys, it's THAT much important, that you ONLY used the correct NGK sparkplugs, and gapped correctly. Using anything else, can/will reduce the lifespan of your DI (Ignition-cassette). And can also be resposible for lack of power and bad fuel-economy. Just a word of advice. Cheers! [snip] > I determined that it is not getting spark by pulling the ignition >casset, puting a plug in it, grounded the plug and turning it over. This is a *really* bad thing to do with a DI cassette. It's very likely to fail very quickly if it doesn't have *all* the plugs in and grounded. Also, it needs to be the right way up whilst powered up. It might have been knackered before, but it's much more likely to be now, I'm afraid. Whatever you do, don't "test" the new one. Just fit it. Cheers, Colin. > [snip] > > I determined that it is not getting spark by pulling the ignition [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Colin. Yikes! Well, I hope it is the DI cassette. So, I have to ask the obvious question; How does one determine that the cassette is no good without just trying a new one? Can I put a meter/test lamp on the unplugged low-voltage connector or some such thing? Thanks again, John Hooven [...] > So, I have to ask the obvious question; > How does one determine that the cassette is no good without just trying > a new one? Can I put a meter/test lamp on the unplugged low-voltage > connector or some such thing? You can pop the spark plugs into the cassette and lay it on top of the engine with the plugs touching the block. Then get someone to turn the engine while watching for sparks. Mind the high Voltage. >[...] >> So, I have to ask the obvious question; [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >engine with the plugs touching the block. Then get someone to turn the >engine while watching for sparks. Mind the high Voltage. Still not a good idea I'm afraid. The plugs won't have a reliable ground. Trying a new one may be the only safe and easy way, or going at it the other way round and trying a replacement car on the suspect cassette. Cheers, Colin. > >[...] > >> So, I have to ask the obvious question; [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > at it the other way round and trying a replacement car on the suspect > cassette. I tend to agree with you. But the AA man did this check as described. So there is no way to test the input into the cassette? No DTCs are output? No resistance values or the like one could test for? Thanks for your help, John Hooven > So there is no way to test the input into the cassette? No DTCs are > output? No resistance values or the like one could test for? Well, given that any test procedure would take longer than setting it in, tightening the 4 screws, and connecting the cable...what's the point? The point is not having to shell out $300+ dollars for a new DI cassette that might not even be the problem. It's nice to be able to *know* what the problem is before spending money on parts. Cheers, -John Hooven >So there is no way to test the input into the cassette? No DTCs are >output? No resistance values or the like one could test for? > >Thanks for your help, >John Hooven The Workshop manual for my 9-3 doesn't mention any fault codes. The test method it gives is to fit 4 "test spark plugs", ground them all with croc clips, make sure it's the right way up and then use the "tech 2" tool to fire up the coils one at a time. Incidentally, it has the DI cassette down as the second thing to test when the car won't start. The first is fuel pressure. Cheers, Colin. > Yikes! Well, I hope it is the DI cassette. > So, I have to ask the obvious question; > How does one determine that the cassette is no good without just trying > a new one? The obvious is at the moment it happens, as it will release a smell of hot/burned oil... Cheers! Yup, they do die without warning. I found out the hard way...in morning rush hour traffic. You can replace the coils. It takes about 5 minutes work. I put my coils in another old DI that my garage had in its junk pile ( it was originally only firing on 3 plugs) and now I have a spare, or rather, an old spare!! > My wife was driving my 2001 95 2.3T (40k miles on it) on the > highway doing around 70mph when the car simply died. No power. This car [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks very much, > John Hooven > Yup, they do die without warning. I found out the hard way...in morning rush > hour traffic. You can replace the coils. It takes about 5 minutes work. I > put my coils in another old DI that my garage had in its junk pile ( it was > originally only firing on 3 plugs) and now I have a spare, or rather, an old > spare!! Do please elaborate. I was under the impression that the cassette was non-servicable. Graham >> Yup, they do die without warning. I found out the hard way...in morning rush >> hour traffic. You can replace the coils. It takes about 5 minutes work. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Do please elaborate. > I was under the impression that the cassette was non-servicable. Potted in epoxy is what people here have posted, yes. How do you switch out the coils, Frosty? Which engine? > >> Yup, they do die without warning. I found out the hard way...in morning rush > >> hour traffic. You can replace the coils. It takes about 5 minutes work. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Potted in epoxy is what people here have posted, yes. How do you > switch out the coils, Frosty? Which engine? Whatever it is, it's not likely to be a reliable repair that will stand up to heat and vibration. The coils are not set in epoxy. They plug in to sockets, just like relays. They are meant to be removable and ( if you have any electronics background) you can check the primary and secondary coil resistance...just like any other electronic coil. Also, you can easily see the oil level through the plastic casing. By the way, the oil is very light and when you flip it over , it takes only a few seconds to flow back. They all appear to be about 3/4 full. To get to the coils, there is a plastic cover to remove(six screws) no glue, no epoxy, no gasket. Granted , a repaired unit may not last another 100 K but it will get you home.. For the sceptics, I will post a link to pics of a disassembled DI cassette. The individual coils are the only removable parts, the rest is firmly set in epoxy and probably not worth the effort. > >> Yup, they do die without warning. I found out the hard way...in morning rush > >> hour traffic. You can replace the coils. It takes about 5 minutes work. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Potted in epoxy is what people here have posted, yes. How do you > switch out the coils, Frosty? Which engine? > The coils are not set in epoxy. They plug in to sockets, just like relays. Which engine is this for? We had a pretty lengthy discussion about all things DI-ish a year ago or so here, with one guy going to extreme means to de-epoxy his dead one. > The coils are not set in epoxy. They plug in to sockets, just like relays. > They are meant to be removable and ( if you have any electronics background) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > cassette. The individual coils are the only removable parts, the rest is > firmly set in epoxy and probably not worth the effort. Frosty, Saw your pictures. Yours was one of the very early DI cassettes. I know that because yours still has the pigtail wiring on it. As of 1993 all DI cassettes had a connector on the end and I'm fairly certain they do not have replaceable parts as yours did. Perhaps this is the cause of all the misunderstandings? -Fred W |
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