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Car Forum / Saab Cars / June 2005Stop Unfair Treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet
Dear Fellow Saab Owners: If you feel that you have been unfairly banned or restricted from posting by Scott Peterson, the Administrator of Saabnet, please respond to this message. I am going to send a letter to all of Saabnet's sponsors, letting them know how Scott treats their customers. I would like to be able to add your names to my letter. Personally, I have spent thousands of dollars, over the years, on the Saabs that I currently or have previously owned. All of this money has been spent with current Saabnet sponsors. By supporting Saabnet with their advertising money, these businesses are indirectly supporting Scott's heavy-handed, authoritarian behavior. Although I would regret having to stop giving them my business, unless they can convince Scott to stop banning, restricting, and erasing people's messages, only because they express an opinion different than his, I will have to boycott these Saabnet sponsors. Hopefully, Scott will see reason and change his behavior. Otherwise, with or without your help, I will stop buying anything from Saabnet sponsors. I hope to get many of you to join me. This will help make the point. Kind Regards, Charles Schwartz > By supporting Saabnet with their advertising money, these businesses are > indirectly supporting Scott's heavy-handed, authoritarian behavior. Although > I would regret having to stop giving them my business, unless they can > convince Scott to stop banning, restricting, and erasing people's messages, > only because they express an opinion different than his, I will have to > boycott these Saabnet sponsors. Wouldn't be a whole lot easier just to boycott Saabnet? >> By supporting Saabnet with their advertising money, these businesses are >> indirectly supporting Scott's heavy-handed, authoritarian behavior. Although >> I would regret having to stop giving them my business, unless they can >> convince Scott to stop banning, restricting, and erasing people's messages, >> only because they express an opinion different than his, I will have to >> boycott these Saabnet sponsors. >Wouldn't be a whole lot easier just to boycott Saabnet? Yes. That's what I'm doing from now on. Saabnet doesn't have anything which can't be found elsewhere and generally in a better-managed environment. Craig.  SignatureCraig's Saab C900 Page --> http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 Sydney, NSW Australia Craig's Saab C900 Workshop -- For all Saab C900 Enthusiasts world-wide! http://www.saab900classic.net http://www.saab900.org c900@lios.apana.org.au Come and explore our site, and check out our web-forums, mailing list, etc. > Dear Fellow Saab Owners: > > If you feel that you have been unfairly banned or restricted from posting by > Scott Peterson, the Administrator of Saabnet, please respond to this > message. I haven't been banned by him, but I don't contribute suggestions there because I've read messages here, from trusted, valuable members of the group, about how the articles they wrote dissapeared when Scott suddenly had a problem with them. So, I'm not seeing the sponsor's ads because of Scott's behavior, which is effectively the same thing from their perspective. To be clear: I won't go through the effort of writing a howto: article, only to risk it going away at the whim of anyone - as has happened to contributors here. > I am going to send a letter to all of Saabnet's sponsors, letting them know > how Scott treats their customers. I would like to be able to add your names > to my letter. I'm not sure that'll get anwhere, but, knock yourself out. Man's gotta have a project, I suppose. > Personally, I have spent thousands of dollars, over the years, on the Saabs > that I currently or have previously owned. All of this money has been spent > with current Saabnet sponsors. I have no idea who his sponsors are, but I bet my tire guy isn't one of 'em. > By supporting Saabnet with their advertising money, these businesses are > indirectly supporting Scott's heavy-handed, authoritarian behavior. Although > I would regret having to stop giving them my business, unless they can > convince Scott to stop banning, restricting, and erasing people's messages, > only because they express an opinion different than his, I will have to > boycott these Saabnet sponsors. Well now, here your tone crosses from "hey, this is a problem" to sounding a bit over the top - if this is the tone in the message to the sponsors, they're likely to write you off as someone with a personal grudge, rather than someone giving them useful business intelligence. Gotta watch that, or the effectiveness of the letter drops to the bottom of the trash can. > Hopefully, Scott will see reason and change his behavior. Otherwise, with or > without your help, I will stop buying anything from Saabnet sponsors. I hope > to get many of you to join me. This will help make the point. I wouldn't know who those sponsors are, and before you get all excited about boycots, do yourself a favor and learn how effective they aren't. Don't get me wrong - I'm certainly not defending the guy, but don't make it come across as a rant, is what I'm saying. > Dear Fellow Saab Owners: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Charles Schwartz Charles Schwartz, Here here, I will help you in any way I can. His practices are disturbing and arrogant at best. Any efforts to communicate with people effectively are "censored" based on a set of personal rules opposed to common sense, which is very annoying. SaabGuy Thanks, Saab Guy. To those of you who are too young to remember just how effective boycotts can steill be, all I can say is Sinclair Broadcasting. There are thousands of people who threatened Sinclair with a boycott last year and they backed down from a planned airing of a biased documentary. Saabnet basically has the following current sponsors: http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/sponsors.html At least two of these sponsors know me and value my business. I will let them know that I have been restricted from posting messages by Scott because I criticized GM for not developing hybrid technology and for using an old wet sleeve design in the new V6 used in the 9-3 Combi. I also critcized the 9-7 as not being correctly aimed at the Saab buyer who wants an efficient performance car.Yes, that is why I got banned. And my unrelated comments were deleted. If they can get through to Scott to create a fairer system, I will continue to use them. If not, I will find other suppliers. It is my money and my choice. If you want to continue to give your money to companies which support Saabnet, you can do so. >> Dear Fellow Saab Owners: >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > SaabGuy > Thanks, Saab Guy. > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >> >>SaabGuy If I am thinking of the right place, I unsubscribed a while ago. I used to contribute my little knowledge on c900s. Regards Charles SignaturePlease remove _removeme_ to reply. Work: http://www.somis.dundee.ac.uk/ Hobby: http://www.egothor.org/ personal opinion, but I think this is a waste of time. If you have a problem with Scott, just don't visit his site. The best thing to do is join another group that values your opinion. There are many other options other than Saabnet. Scott does not have a monopoly on anything. He has a widely used portal and has helped a lot of people and has made a business of it. Good for him. If you disagree, just go elsewhere. If it is truly not good, its members will go elsewhere and decrease in number. $0.02, Keith > Dear Fellow Saab Owners: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Charles Schwartz > personal opinion, but I think this is a waste of time. > > If you have a problem with Scott, just don't visit his site. The best > thing to do is join another group that values your opinion. There are What do you think "we" should do then: I used to frequent Saabnet, but got banned at one time, because he banned my ISP. My ISP is the largets in Denmark (70+ %) of the population. So about 2 million Danes couldn't access Saabnet from here - because ONE individual didn't comply with Scott "The Snots" rules. Cheers! > > personal opinion, but I think this is a waste of time. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Cheers! Henrik, Yea, that guy is a moron. SaabGuy My parts guy is a Saabnet sponsor, and even he has been banned from posting on the site! Scott is a PITA but he sends a LOT of business to Saabnet advertisers. It's cheaper than paying to get up the ranks on google. BTW, I think Scott has a lot of money even without Saabnet's ($100k/yr or so?) revenue. > My parts guy is a Saabnet sponsor, and even he has been banned from > posting on the site! Scott is a PITA but he sends a LOT of business to > Saabnet advertisers. It's cheaper than paying to get up the ranks on > google. BTW, I think Scott has a lot of money even without Saabnet's > ($100k/yr or so?) revenue. That makes me sick that Scott makes this kind of money SaabGuy >> My parts guy is a Saabnet sponsor, and even he has been banned from >> posting on the site! Scott is a PITA but he sends a LOT of business to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >That makes me sick that Scott makes this kind of money Just remember that the rest of us who offer services like forums, howto pages, etc. for free are doing it because we're enthusiastic about helping other Saab owners/enthusiasts since we're Saab owners/enthusiasts ourselves! I'm sure the people behind Saabscene.co.uk and saablink.net would agree with me (and I know some of you read this newsgroup!). Saabnet can become more and more commercial and that's Scott's perogative to go that way. Meanwhile the free 'open-source' Saab owner/enthusiast community can continue to grow regardless of Saabnet's antics. Regards, Craig. SignatureCraig's Saab C900 Page --> http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 Sydney, NSW Australia Craig's Saab C900 Workshop -- For all Saab C900 Enthusiasts world-wide! http://www.saab900classic.net http://www.saab900.org c900@lios.apana.org.au Come and explore our site, and check out our web-forums, mailing list, etc. I don't see what the big deal is...just go elsewhere. By posting about them you're only giving them a free advertisement. Why not just visit saabcentral.com? Plenty of much better organized forums. I haven't found any reason to complain about those user forums. No censorship (afaik). Anyone have any complaints about them? imho, while saabnet's censorship may be a problem, I think the larger problem for saabnet, is that it just looks and feels like a half-assed, ill-conceived site. From the comments assembled here, its owner/operator doesn't appear to be much wiser than his website conveys. - tex Those of you who said I was making too big a deal about this were right. I have reconsidered and I will let this go. Scott's site is like his store. It is not a public forum. He can tell whomever he wants to shut up or leave. That is reality about the his website. And I won't be visiting his site anymore either. >I don't see what the big deal is...just go elsewhere. By posting about >them you're only giving them a free advertisement. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - tex > imho, while saabnet's censorship may be a problem, I think the larger > problem for saabnet, is that it just looks and feels like a half-assed, > ill-conceived site. From the comments assembled here, its owner/operator > doesn't appear to be much wiser than his website conveys. Well, far as I can tell, Saabnet's GUI hasn't changed in many, many years. So, for the time it was made, it was acceptable from a display perspective. The "search" function has always been nearly useless, the message threading is strange, and to be honest, the only thing I've used it for in years is refering people to the high-mileage saabs list. It "solves" a problem that is better solved by usenet, or maybe by other discussion boards. I don't see what the problem is, just avoid the guy. Tell his sponsors why if you want, I suppose. > > imho, while saabnet's censorship may be a problem, I think the larger > > problem for saabnet, is that it just looks and feels like a half-assed, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > discussion boards. I don't see what the problem is, just avoid the guy. > Tell his sponsors why if you want, I suppose. "stop moaning about the unfair treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet" His site - his rules. If this isn't just a personal vendetta, why don't you all stop whining about Saabnet and build your own "better" alternative site? You could even give Saabguy some space to host "his" videos... >> Well, far as I can tell, Saabnet's GUI hasn't changed in many, many >> years. So, for the time it was made, it was acceptable from a display [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "stop moaning about the unfair treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet" Um, I'm not, Bob. > His site - his rules. If this isn't just a personal vendetta, why don't you > all stop whining about Saabnet and build your own "better" alternative site? Um, I'm not, Bob. > You could even give Saabguy some space to host "his" videos... I could, but (a) I didn't care for his attitude, (b) he's in my killfile, and (c) I'm not sure I want to be the person getting a cease & desist letter for hosting copyrighted materials. Not worth the risk. ! Sorry Dave - Didn't mean it to look like I was having a go at you. I'll be more careful in future.. (Wednesday night is a "wine night" for us).... > ! Sorry Dave - > Didn't mean it to look like I was having a go at you. > I'll be more careful in future.. > (Wednesday night is a "wine night" for us).... Ah, excellent. I'm thinking it's a Scotch night this evening, after I do the bobcat-work. Dave >> ! Sorry Dave - >> Didn't mean it to look like I was having a go at you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ah, excellent. I'm thinking it's a Scotch night this evening, after I > do the bobcat-work. Scotch? Pah! Poison! :) ... He says, slugging down Leffe and freezing Brännvin 8) Actually, whisk(e)y is one of the few things you guys do better than us <ducks and runs> Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ >>> ! Sorry Dave - >>> Didn't mean it to look like I was having a go at you. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Scotch? Pah! Poison! :) Right. Just send it on over to me... > ... He says, slugging down Leffe and freezing Brännvin 8) Actually, > whisk(e)y is one of the few things you guys do better than us ><ducks and runs> I'm not familiar with that which you mention, that's not that Irish crap they try to pass off as Whiskey, is it? Oh, and the USA'n stuff? Well, it's shaped like a good Whisky, but that's all. If I want corn, I'll eat it directly, not in my beverages, thankyouverymuch. >>> On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:22:34 GMT, Nasty Bob >>> <nospamspeedypancake@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Right. Just send it on over to me... I'll swap you a bottle for a C900 rear louvre! We don't seem to have them over here, but I've seen them on many a US C900. I'm feeling the need for some more retro styling for the "old girl". >> ... He says, slugging down Leffe and freezing Brännvin 8) Actually, >> whisk(e)y is one of the few things you guys do better than us [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it's shaped like a good Whisky, but that's all. If I want corn, I'll > eat it directly, not in my beverages, thankyouverymuch. Erm ... Erm ... Evidently :) Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ >> Right. Just send it on over to me... > > I'll swap you a bottle for a C900 rear louvre! We don't seem to have them > over here, but I've seen them on many a US C900. I'm feeling the need for > some more retro styling for the "old girl". Haven't seen one in years, sorry. Never saw the appeal either, but I live in snow country, so they're astonishingly useless here. >> I'm not familiar with that which you mention, that's not that Irish crap >> they try to pass off as Whiskey, is it? Oh, and the USA'n stuff? Well, >> it's shaped like a good Whisky, but that's all. If I want corn, I'll >> eat it directly, not in my beverages, thankyouverymuch. > Erm ... Erm ... Evidently :) I'm kinda particular. Gotta be a _good_ Scotch, too. > "stop moaning about the unfair treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet" > His site - his rules. If this isn't just a personal vendetta, why don't you > all stop whining about Saabnet and build your own "better" alternative site? > You could even give Saabguy some space to host "his" videos... As usenet is an alternative to Saabnet, and seeing as how nobody owns it, it would seem as good a place as any to post a complaint about a site that claims to be a presumably unbiased source of information for Saab owners, but then censors content aggressively because of sponsorships. Just as Scott has the right to do this, he must accept that others have a right to expose his behavior on usenet. Although I actually use and like Saabnet, I don't have a problem with your approach, Charles. If you are upset with the service there, by all means you should boycott, and even write those letters to the sponsors if you wish. You are the consumer, and if you are unhappy, you should use every means at your disposal to bring about change. That's why we all get crappy service the world over.. Not enough customers doing this. Most just whimp out when they get mistreated. > > "stop moaning about the unfair treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet" > > His site - his rules. If this isn't just a personal vendetta, why don't you [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > That's why we all get crappy service the world over.. Not enough customers doing > this. Most just whimp out when they get mistreated. Jeff - sorry if this reply is posted a bit late.. but my newsreader / email seems very slow. But nobody is disputing anybody's right to boycott an internet site, or even moan about it in newsgroups. But I do take issue with this thought of Saabnet providing a "service" and "consumers". If I get bad service in a restaurant, or someone supplies me faulty goods which I have *paid for* I have consumer rights. How much does Saabnet charge you to use their unsatisfactory service?? > Jeff - sorry if this reply is posted a bit late.. but my newsreader / [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > use > their unsatisfactory service?? The payment is indirect...ie, Saabnet's users are exposed to advertisements. - tex >> Jeff - sorry if this reply is posted a bit late.. but my newsreader / [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> use >> their unsatisfactory service?? >The payment is indirect...ie, Saabnet's users are exposed to advertisements. But you can also become a paid member of Saabnet to get access to extra things like posting classifieds, etc. This is where the perspective and management philosophy of the site really come into question, but as we've said already there are plenty of alternative forum/bulletin-board sites and info sites like Saabscene, Saablink, Saabcentral and my site as well. So there is plenty of choice. Saabnet's just not up-front that it's commercially-oriented, but again that's the site admin's perogative to set it up that way. People become aware of the issues as they get blocked from posting. 8-) Regards, Craig. SignatureCraig's Saab C900 Page --> http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 Sydney, NSW Australia Craig's Saab C900 Workshop -- For all Saab C900 Enthusiasts world-wide! http://www.saab900classic.net http://www.saab900.org c900@lios.apana.org.au Come and explore our site, and check out our web-forums, mailing list, etc. > Jeff - sorry if this reply is posted a bit late.. but my newsreader / email > seems very slow. But nobody is disputing anybody's right to boycott an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > *paid for* I have consumer rights. How much does Saabnet charge you to use > their unsatisfactory service?? Well, conversely, Scott _is_ charging his advertizers to put ads up, right? Those people should know that Scott is costing them visibility by his heavy-handed tactics. So I can see the guy's point, I just don't care intensely enough to do anything about it other than say "Yeah, you're right, that's messed up". >>>"stop moaning about the unfair treatment by Scott Peterson of Saabnet" >>>His site - his rules. If this isn't just a personal vendetta, why don't [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > *paid for* I have consumer rights. How much does Saabnet charge you to use > their unsatisfactory service?? Tex took the words right out of my fingers. > That's why we all get crappy service the world over.. Not enough > customers doing this. Most just whimp out when they get mistreated. Not really. Consumers today speak with their money. Pursuing uncertain complaint avenues, can prove to be a waste of time. So rather than waste one's time, consumers will simply stop investing their money in one vendor and invest it in another, hopefully more valuable, vendor. - tex >>That's why we all get crappy service the world over.. Not enough >>customers doing this. Most just whimp out when they get mistreated. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > - tex True enough. In this case I personally do not think Charles would be wasting his time, since he did state that he actually does business with Saabnet's sponsors. Boycotting the sponsors (i.e. speaking with his money), is *exactly* what Charles was suggesting. He was simply also willing to extend the sponsors the courtesy of letting them know why. I believe this is a more practical, and much more effective approach than waiting for the sponsors to someday notice they lost Charles as a customer and never understand why. This also gives them the opportunity to fix it. |
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