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Car Forum / Saab Cars / July 2005

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synthetic oil

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es - 21 Jun 2005 17:00 GMT
hey my 1990 9000 cd 2.0 turbo(104000 mil) is do for an oil change i
think all its life its hade regular oil in it but this time i want to
put synthetic oil in it.is this going to cause any problems with a car
thats had reg oil all its life? or will i just get all the good stuff
of synthetic oil?

i here that mobil 1 synthetic is one of the best out there should i use
this in my car?

my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
to but i got no dran plug?
yaofeng - 21 Jun 2005 17:10 GMT
By all means switch engine oil to synthetic and prolong the change
interval to at least 10k miles.  But on the transmission oil, stay with
dino.  SAAB specifically says not to use synthetic oil on manual
transmissions until later model years.  How late, I forgot.  But my two
'94's and '95 9k stll only use dino oil in the 5 speed transmission.
es - 21 Jun 2005 17:19 GMT
> By all means switch engine oil to synthetic and prolong the change
> interval to at least 10k miles.

if i dont prolong the change interval will that hert it or would it
make it better?
yaofeng - 21 Jun 2005 17:36 GMT
It will hurt your pocket book for one.  Synthetic oil is three to four
times as expensive as regular motor oil.  I used to change oil every 5k
miles using regular motor oil.  Now I do 10k.  You can just feel the
difference in engine lubrication, especially in the dead of winter
morning start-up.

People claim the detergent effect of syntheitcs make the engine more
susceptible to leaks.  I haven't seen it on mine.

On your 91 not having a transmission oil drain plug.  I know some
people tap a hole to make one.
James Sweet - 23 Jun 2005 08:46 GMT
> It will hurt your pocket book for one.  Synthetic oil is three to four
> times as expensive as regular motor oil.  I used to change oil every 5k
> miles using regular motor oil.  Now I do 10k.  You can just feel the
> difference in engine lubrication, especially in the dead of winter
> morning start-up.

Make darn sure you use good quality filters if you stretch the change
interval out that far, I've always done 3K for dino oil or 5K for synthetic,
past that it's getting pretty dirty looking. 4 quarts of synthetic is dirt
cheap compared to the cost of a new turbo.
John B - 21 Jun 2005 18:34 GMT
> By all means switch engine oil to synthetic and prolong the change
> interval to at least 10k miles.  But on the transmission oil, stay with
> dino.  SAAB specifically says not to use synthetic oil on manual
> transmissions until later model years.  How late, I forgot.  But my two

I'm running synthetic MTF (BG Synchroshift) in my 1992 c900. Works well for
me, and is definitely an improvement over traditional oil in cold weather. You
have to open the differential to drain the oil, at least in my car.

John
yaofeng - 22 Jun 2005 13:34 GMT
Prior to model year 94, there isn't even a drain or fill plug on the
SAAB 9k 5 speed so changing the transmission fluid is impossible unless
one taps a hole in the trans housing.  On model year 94 and later,
there are three plugs on the 5 spped, fill, level and drain.  But SAAB
did not recommend a synthetic transmission oil until much later, '97 I
believe,  And it says to not mix synthetic with regular.  One is
supposed to flush it with synthetic first if he is to change it out.

There has been documented cases where the owner put in synthetic
transmission oil in early model year 9k 5 speed which resulted in the
transmission breaking down.
Johannes - 22 Jun 2005 13:43 GMT
> Prior to model year 94, there isn't even a drain or fill plug on the
> SAAB 9k 5 speed so changing the transmission fluid is impossible unless
> one taps a hole in the trans housing.

There is a transmission oil fill plug in my 1993 9000 CSE. But whether
there is a drain plug is an unsolved question. It's definitely pre 1994
since it has a B202 engine.
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 14:41 GMT
> Prior to model year 94, there isn't even a drain or fill plug on the
> SAAB 9k 5 speed so changing the transmission fluid is impossible unless
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> believe,  And it says to not mix synthetic with regular.  One is
> supposed to flush it with synthetic first if he is to change it out.

I had the old oil sucked out through the fill-hole. And correct, you'll have
to flush the gearbox with 1 litre synth oil first.

> There has been documented cases where the owner put in synthetic
> transmission oil in early model year 9k 5 speed which resulted in the
> transmission breaking down.

I've been driving my '93 9000 CS 2,3 Turbo, 5-speed manual, for one year now
(15.000 miles) with the Saab MTF0063 synthetic oil, and besides at better
shifting, I haven't experienced any probs. I was recommended by a Saab tech
(from the factory) to change to the synth, which I can only recommend.

Cheers!
Johannes - 21 Jun 2005 19:13 GMT
> hey my 1990 9000 cd 2.0 turbo(104000 mil) is do for an oil change i
> think all its life its hade regular oil in it but this time i want to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
> to but i got no dran plug?

I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
(racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
often have BOGOF offers near bank holidays to tempt DIY'ers into the shop.
John B - 21 Jun 2005 19:21 GMT
> I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
> (racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
> often have BOGOF offers near bank holidays to tempt DIY'ers into the shop.

My impression is that synthetic engine oil is a bit too slick for use in a
manual transmission. That's why there are synthetic MTFs (Synchroshift,
Redline, etc) available.

John
Johannes - 21 Jun 2005 19:47 GMT
> > I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
> > (racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> John

My reply wasn't intended for the transmission oil.
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 22 Jun 2005 20:35 GMT
> My impression is that synthetic engine oil is a bit too slick for use in a
> manual transmission. That's why there are synthetic MTFs (Synchroshift,
> Redline, etc) available.

It is the friction reducers that are the problem I believe.
And yes, I used MTF rather than mineral engine oil in my 1984 C900.

You can tell if it is oil or MTF in your box. If you smell it, and it
smells of rancid pickled onions, or cat piss, it is MTF.
Signature

Carl Robson
"Sorry Sir the meatballs are orf"
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 08:39 GMT
>> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
>> to but i got no dran plug?
>
> I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
> (racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
> often have BOGOF offers near bank holidays to tempt DIY'ers into the shop.

None the less - Saab is using Mobil 1 0W-40 as factory-fill on all new
Saab's.

Cheers!
Johannes - 22 Jun 2005 12:28 GMT
> >> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
> >> to but i got no dran plug?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Cheers!

I thought they were using "Saab Genuine Oil", whatever that is.
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 12:44 GMT
> I thought they were using "Saab Genuine Oil", whatever that is.

Mobil1.  ;o)

Signature

----------------------------------------------------------
Saab - Fordi livet er for kort til biler med dårlig sikkerhed!

Johannes - 22 Jun 2005 12:48 GMT
> > I thought they were using "Saab Genuine Oil", whatever that is.
>
> Mobil1.  ;o)

Hmm. Saab oil comes in special blue cans marked 'Saab Oil'. According
to Saab literature: "The only oil that has been tested and approved for
use in your Saab engine".
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 22 Jun 2005 20:46 GMT
> Hmm. Saab oil comes in special blue cans marked 'Saab Oil'. According
> to Saab literature: "The only oil that has been tested and approved for
> use in your Saab engine".

I'll let you into a clue. Blend Mobil one for Saab and stick it in a
Saab bottle, it's Saab oil. When your lord and masters cut corners,
stick Castrol Magnatec, or YoMamma smokey burn in the Same Saab oil
bottle, it is Saab oil.

I did read on one of the OC magazine, that Saab through GM had done a
deal with an oil company I had never heard of, to produce one oil for
all Saabs, from the Turbo Diesels, to the LPT, to the HOT AERO models.
And it had a longer life cycle. Now what was it about Saabs, Toyotas etc
on Synthetic in the states, with longer service interval suffering from
sludging.
Signature

Carl Robson
"Sorry Sir the meatballs are orf"
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Johannes - 23 Jun 2005 00:18 GMT
> > Hmm. Saab oil comes in special blue cans marked 'Saab Oil'. According
> > to Saab literature: "The only oil that has been tested and approved for
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> stick Castrol Magnatec, or YoMamma smokey burn in the Same Saab oil
> bottle, it is Saab oil.

You didn't think that I took Saab's oil blurb at face value, did you?

> I did read on one of the OC magazine, that Saab through GM had done a
> deal with an oil company I had never heard of, to produce one oil for
> all Saabs, from the Turbo Diesels, to the LPT, to the HOT AERO models.
> And it had a longer life cycle. Now what was it about Saabs, Toyotas etc
> on Synthetic in the states, with longer service interval suffering from
> sludging.
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 22 Jun 2005 20:34 GMT
> I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
> (racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
> often have BOGOF offers near bank holidays to tempt DIY'ers into the shop.

Mobil 1 might be classified as synthetic, but it is garbage, compared to
others.

It is based on cracked dino oil molecules, so they get to call it
synthetic rather than mineral.
Real synthetics such a Silkene and millers are listed as high ester, or
triple ester and are totally man made, not produced by manipulating
mineral oils. It is not too much for a Saab. I think that Saab Turbo oil
is actually specially blended Mobil one, for Saab. Halfords full synth
may actually be a better oil than Mobil one.
Signature

Carl Robson
"Sorry Sir the meatballs are orf"
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Henrik B. - 23 Jun 2005 15:15 GMT
> Real synthetics such a Silkene and millers are listed as high ester, or
> triple ester and are totally man made, not produced by manipulating

Not that ester is a good thing in too high quantities in engine-oil. It can
cause corrosion on the (iron) engine parts.

Cheers!
Malt_Hound - 24 Jun 2005 14:36 GMT
>>I think mobil 1 is over the top and is only really needed for extreme
>>(racing) driving conditions. I use Halford's fully synt 5W40 oil, they
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> is actually specially blended Mobil one, for Saab. Halfords full synth
> may actually be a better oil than Mobil one.

You are whacked.  Mobil 1 is about the best stuff you can get.

I think you are confusing it with Castrol Syntek.

-Fred W
WitchDr - 24 Jun 2005 22:50 GMT
>> Real synthetics such a Silkene and millers are listed as high ester, or
>> triple ester and are totally man made, not produced by manipulating
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I think you are confusing it with Castrol Syntek.

Both Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec are fully synthetic.
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 29 Jun 2005 15:50 GMT
> Mobil 1 is about the best stuff you can get.

Maybe in the US, but not world wide.
Don't think we even get Syntek.

Mobil is better than Mineral, but it is mineral based synthetic.
There lots better oils, and some are even cheaper than Mobil 1.
For what it is, it may be good, but at least in the UK it is seriously
over priced.

In the UK high street
4 litres Mobil 1 5w40, 0w40 or 15w40 £30-£35 approx.
But 5 litres Millers CFS 10w40 or 10w60 full synth £25-30
At Costco (which isn't much cheaper in the UK)
4 litres Mobil 1 5w40 or 0w40 £25
4 litres Chevron synthetic 5w40 £17 (yes £17 half the highstreet price
of Mobil 1)
Others I mentioned in previous posts are totally mam made tailored to do
exactley what the makers want, not modified from base stock minerals,
and in many cases, partially recycled minerals at that.
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Malt_Hound - 29 Jun 2005 16:51 GMT
>>Mobil 1 is about the best stuff you can get.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Mobil is better than Mineral, but it is mineral based synthetic.
> There lots better oils, and some are even cheaper than Mobil 1.

Not from my experience or understanding.  Please cite some references.
Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a true synthetic.
It's Castrol Syntec that is labeled as a "fully synthetic" but is a
cracked petroleum based oil.  That is not necessarily a bad thing, just
different.

All of the ad-hoc testing and scientific evidence I have ever seen shows
that Mobil 1 is as good as, or better than, any other synthetic oil at
any price.

> For what it is, it may be good, but at least in the UK it is seriously
> over priced.

The price issue is your (collective Brittish) problem.  I can buy Mobil
1 here in the US at WalMart for $19 per 5 qt bottle.  That does not
effect the quality of the oil.

If you don't want to spend the money, then don't, but that does not make
it a lesser oil.

-Fred W
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 30 Jun 2005 11:51 GMT
> Not from my experience or understanding.  Please cite some references.
> Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a true synthetic.
> It's Castrol Syntec that is labeled as a "fully synthetic" but is a
> cracked petroleum based oil.  That is not necessarily a bad thing, just
> different.

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D
Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the
?Ester? types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10
times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are
not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in
fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as
?hydrocracked?. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils,
particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils
with a low ?W? rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times
more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different
grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the ?synthetic?
which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled ?synthetic?. Yes
it?s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called ?synthetic??
Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA
about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel
Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that
certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could
be called ?synthetic?. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet
their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and
still does, that the critical buzz-word ?synthetic? could be printed on
a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of
?hydrocracked? mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of ?synthetics? is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-
marketed can with ?synthetic? printed on it, fair enough, it will not
cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive
a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and
maybe do the odd ?track day?, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly
Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more
money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply,
you always get what you pay for!

UNQUOTE:

Here is a link to some specs of oils.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

And Biased toward AMSoil but,
http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/index.shtml#mobil2
"Nothing Outperforms Mobil 1? Wrong!!
Just compare the technical specifications. We've got the data on the new
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30 and we've compared it to AMSOIL 5w30. Guess who
comes out on top in every category? You guessed it ... AMSOIL!

According to the ASTM D4172 Four Ball Wear Test, Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30
allows 50% more wear than AMSOIL 5w30. 50%! What about NOACK volatility
(the measure of an oil's rate of consumption under high heat/stress
conditions)? Mobil 1 consumes at a rate nearly double that of AMSOIL.
And how about TBN (Total Base Number - the measure of an oil's ability
to neutralize acid build-up and corrosion)? AMSOIL has a TBN value
nearly 50% higher than Mobil 1.

Of course, there are other areas where AMSOIL comes out on top as well
such as a viscosity index score that is 12 points higher than the Mobil
1 product which isn't even on the charts (we didn't want to beat up on
them too badly). Why don't you take a look at the charts for yourself?
"

And this link goes into quite a lot of detail over both Syntec, and
Mobil 1 and the PAO Synthetic/Cracked petroleum synthetic debate too.
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-4702.html
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Henrik B. - 30 Jun 2005 12:02 GMT
"Nothing Outperforms Mobil 1? Wrong!!
Just compare the technical specifications. We've got the data on the new
Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30 and we've compared it to AMSOIL 5w30. Guess who
comes out on top in every category? You guessed it ... AMSOIL!

No matter how Mobil1 is described, it's a darn good lubricant for at car
engine. Producing "synth" oils since mid-seventies, they know what they're
doing. Also, tests that Mobil has made over the years, their oil used in the
Fomula 1, and the fact that Saab is factory filling all Saabs with Mobil1,
does it for me. Saab has driven several million test-miles over the years,
so they know a thing ot two about engine-lubrication. In fact, when Saab is
testing a new engine, the put it in a bench, and have it go at full throttle
(5,500 rpm) for 600 hours straight.

Another thing. In Sweden there' a A LOT of high performance Saabs - 300 to
500 Bhp - and more than 60% of them use Mobil1 0W-40. So I don't think, that
Mobil1 is all that bad - mineral-based or not.

Cheers!
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 30 Jun 2005 13:30 GMT
> Another thing. In Sweden there' a A LOT of high performance Saabs - 300 to
> 500 Bhp - and more than 60% of them use Mobil1 0W-40. So I don't think, that
> Mobil1 is all that bad - mineral-based or not.

Oh I agree, however, What I was saying is, it isn't the best, and in
some cases, it isn't the best value. It's still good enough for a lot of
cases though. You just shouldn't kid yourself that by using Mobil 1 you
are using the best of the best, to get the most wonderful protection you
engine could ever get from a lubricant.

And in some cases, it isn't even totally 100% POA/Ester synthetic.
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Malt_Hound - 01 Jul 2005 01:48 GMT
>>Not from my experience or understanding.  Please cite some references.
>>Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a true synthetic.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> UNQUOTE:

While all of the above is credible and seems accurate, it *is* written
by a guy trying to sell his company's brand of oil, and he never says
anything about Mobil 1 specifically.

> Here is a link to some specs of oils.
> http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Read through this stuff.  It seems to indicate that Mobil 1 is a true
synthetic.  I don't see any verbage that indicate sotherwise.

> And Biased toward AMSoil but,
> http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/index.shtml#mobil2
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> them too badly). Why don't you take a look at the charts for yourself?
> "

Biased?  No kidding.  That's the understatement of the century.
Everyone that has half a brain would quickly realize that Amsoil is a
multilevel marketing scheme only one step removed from Shakley.  Yes,
they sell some reasonably good products (at an extremely inflated
price), but their evidence is suspect and cannot be believed.  Of course
their self-interests are obvious.

How about this link?
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
Considering that this test is being performed by someone that has no
particular interest in either brand, I think it speaks volumes.

> And this link goes into quite a lot of detail over both Syntec, and
> Mobil 1 and the PAO Synthetic/Cracked petroleum synthetic debate too.
> http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-4702.html

So a couple of guys on a bulletin board are arguing the merits of Mobil
1 and Castrol.  I have heard most of this before except the part about
Mobil 1 being "downgraded" from PAO based synthetic to a cracked
mineral, and frankly, this does not seem like a completely credible source.

So, when will you show me any evidence that Mobil 1 is not a "true
synthetic" oil?  BBS posts don't cut it...

-Fred W
Dan - 02 Jul 2005 03:12 GMT
>>> Not from my experience or understanding.  Please cite some
>>> references. Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>
> -Fred W

Wasn't Mobil 1 originally partly synthetic, then it was reformulated
recently into fully synthetic?  I am pretty sure that SAAB recommends
using Mobil 1 in my 2004 9-3 Aero (according to my dealer).
Henrik B. - 03 Jul 2005 16:50 GMT
> recently into fully synthetic?  I am pretty sure that SAAB recommends
> using Mobil 1 in my 2004 9-3 Aero (according to my dealer).

Of course Saab recommends Mobil1 - it's factory-fill, and also what's in the
Saab "original" Turbo-oil cans. ;o))

Signature

----------------------------------------------------------
Saab - Fordi livet er for kort til biler med dårlig sikkerhed!

Dan - 02 Jul 2005 03:20 GMT
>>> Not from my experience or understanding.  Please cite some
>>> references. Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>
> -Fred W

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx
states that it's base IS PAOs.  So according to the above, Mobil 1 is
fully synthetic.  No?
Pooh Bear - 25 Jun 2005 12:48 GMT
> Real synthetics such a Silkene and millers are listed as high ester, or
> triple ester and are totally man made, not produced by manipulating
> mineral oils. It is not too much for a Saab. I think that Saab Turbo oil
> is actually specially blended Mobil one, for Saab. Halfords full synth
> may actually be a better oil than Mobil one.

Do you mean Silkolene ? I found some once in a Halfords actually. Never seen it
on a shelf since though. It didn't go into a Saab but that engine certainly
sounded nicer afterwards.

Graham
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 29 Jun 2005 15:44 GMT
> Do you mean Silkolene ?

I do yes.
Valvolene, Silkolene, Redline, Millers etc all make specialist oils for
road cars (classics/diesels/prformance) and motorsport as well as for
normal ordinary mineral/semi/synth road car oils.

And their Motorsport oils are good enough for road use in performance
cars.
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Pooh Bear - 30 Jun 2005 09:25 GMT
> > Do you mean Silkolene ?
>
> I do yes.
> Valvolene, Silkolene, Redline, Millers etc all make specialist oils for
> road cars (classics/diesels/prformance) and motorsport as well as for
> normal ordinary mineral/semi/synth road car oils.

Of those brands, I'd only expect Silkolene to be available in the UK. It is
a partly UK company itself of course.

> And their Motorsport oils are good enough for road use in performance
> cars.

No doubt about it. I like the 'Concorde' symbol emblazoned on a can of
Silkolene btw. It's there since they were early designers of synthetic oils
for aerospace use ! They say that's what gives them the edge in advanced
lubrication ! Who am I to argue ?

Graham
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 04 Jul 2005 16:07 GMT
> > > Do you mean Silkolene ?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Of those brands, I'd only expect Silkolene to be available in the UK. It is
> a partly UK company itself of course.

I get Millers off the shelf at the local autfactors I use.
Another has Valvolene in 5 litre and trade sized drums.

Mechanic I used once or twice uses Millers full synth, in everything
from Micras to Diesel 4x4s. he bulk orders it and gets it delivered by
tanker. Normaly gets the last drop of the day, so gets what left above
his order for the price of a couple of pints to the driver.

Redline, Valvolene, Silkolene and Millers can be mailordered from
DemonTweeks in Wrexham, or bought over the counter if you are passing.

I actually haven't seen Silkolene in any shops. Seems to be Castrol,
Carlube or Homebrand almost everywhere.

Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

John Hudson - 04 Jul 2005 16:38 GMT
> > > > Do you mean Silkolene ?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> I actually haven't seen Silkolene in any shops. Seems to be Castrol,
> Carlube or Homebrand almost everywhere.

I have used Millers full synthetic in my turbo diesel for many years. Motor
accessory factors usually stock it. Whether its doing any better than the
Magnatec that the main dealer used during its warranty period is another
matter. Like most things we would only know if fundamentally sound testing
was carried out. I am always surprised when the question of oil types and
frequency of changing comes up that the key question is not asked. In my
opinion it depends on how long  you intend to keep the car.
Chris Campbell - 04 Jul 2005 20:46 GMT
Hi, I just switched my 94 9000cseT to mobil 1... I also used a K&N
Hi-Performance oil filter (against my wallet's better judgement)... My
question is this... since this is the first oil change with sythnetic,
how long should I keep it in there for? 3,000 miles? 6,000 miles? Then
after the first change, what would be the reccomended drain interval?
I'm thinking somewhere between 6,000-10,000 - and the fitler? if its a
good filter is it okay to use it for the 6,000-10,000 miles?

-Chris

1994 Saab 9000CSE Turbo
2001 Saab 9-3SE
1994 Saab 900SE V6 *RIP*
1987 Saab 9000S *RIP*
Henrik B. - 05 Jul 2005 10:05 GMT
> Hi, I just switched my 94 9000cseT to mobil 1... I also used a K&N
> Hi-Performance oil filter (against my wallet's better judgement)... My
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> thinking somewhere between 6,000-10,000 - and the fitler? if its a good
> filter is it okay to use it for the 6,000-10,000 miles?

Hi Chris.

Just keep and eye on the colour of the oil. Does it turn too dark (black),
change oil and filter. Personally, I change oil AND filter approx. every
6,000 miles (10.000 km).

Why pay the big bucks for the KN-filter, when you can get an "original"
Saab-filter for a lot less. It's a perfectly good filter.

Regards
Saab 9000 CSE 2,3T - '93.
Craig's Saab C900 Site - 21 Jun 2005 23:36 GMT
>hey my 1990 9000 cd 2.0 turbo(104000 mil) is do for an oil change i
>think all its life its hade regular oil in it but this time i want to
>put synthetic oil in it.is this going to cause any problems with a car
>thats had reg oil all its life? or will i just get all the good stuff
>of synthetic oil?

>i here that mobil 1 synthetic is one of the best out there should i use
>this in my car?

I don't own any 9000's but in my C900's I'm now using Shell Helix Ultra when
I replace the engine oil. That's been recommended by a lot of people locally
who are Saab owners. I've only had it in for a short time in one of the cars
so can't really tell you much about quantitative performance changes (if
any) yet. 8-)

Regards,

Craig.
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Mac Townsend - 22 Jun 2005 00:24 GMT
you will need to suck the present trans oil out thru the side cover or
remove one of the covers from under the car.

I don't reckon Mobil 1 to be any better than Castrol's Syntec. I
alternate depending on what's on sale.

Synthetics tend to leak more, so keep a close eye on this. If you had a
leaking problem before, stick with conventional or use a blend.

> hey my 1990 9000 cd 2.0 turbo(104000 mil) is do for an oil change i
> think all its life its hade regular oil in it but this time i want to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
> to but i got no dran plug?
es - 22 Jun 2005 01:11 GMT
> you will need to suck the present trans oil out thru the side cover or
> remove one of the covers from under the car.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> > my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
> > to but i got no dran plug?

well as of right now the engine is leaking oil a little bit where the
head gasket is but the car is running really nice so i guess i have to
stick with reg oil.

and if that is the case what is the best reg oil out there????

and is there something i can put in the oil to stop that small leak?
like bars leaks????
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 08:46 GMT
> well as of right now the engine is leaking oil a little bit where the
> head gasket is but the car is running really nice so i guess i have to
> stick with reg oil.

No. The synth oil is much better for your engine! Get the seal fixed
instead. Besides, forget about the higher cost in synth-oils. If you hold
the up against the total cost of having a car, the oil is peanuts. I've run
all my Saab's (200.000+ miles) on fully-synth Mobil1. Never had a problem.
And I've always changed the oil every 7,000 - 9,000 miles.

> and is there something i can put in the oil to stop that small leak?
> like bars leaks????

NO! Don't use stuff like that, might ruin your engine. Get the seal fixed.

Cheers!
yaofeng - 22 Jun 2005 13:44 GMT
> No. The synth oil is much better for your engine! Get the seal fixed
> instead. Besides, forget about the higher cost in synth-oils. If you hold
> the up against the total cost of having a car, the oil is peanuts. I've run
> all my Saab's (200.000+ miles) on fully-synth Mobil1. Never had a problem.
> And I've always changed the oil every 7,000 - 9,000 miles.

But a SAAB, any SAAB, can go well beyond 200k on regular oil too.  You
just have to change it more often.  That's all.

My 94 9kcs was wrecked last December at 176k miles.  I had no reason to
doubt it won't go 250k and beyond, synthetic or regular.  Yes it has
been on a diet of Mobile 1 at every 10k miles.  But that was switched
at 100k.
es - 22 Jun 2005 16:15 GMT
> > and is there something i can put in the oil to stop that small leak?
> > like bars leaks????
>
> NO! Don't use stuff like that, might ruin your engine. Get the seal fixed.
>
> Cheers!

well in order to get the seal fixed i need to replace the head gasket
which i do not have the money for

i do agree with you about not using stuff like that but i guess i
cannot use synthetic till i get the head gasket replaced right?

and if i do have to use reg oil what is the best?
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 16:32 GMT
> well in order to get the seal fixed i need to replace the head gasket
> which i do not have the money for

Well, a blown headgasket is not good for the engine. Also, it can leave you
stranded suddenly.
You're sure that it's not just the camshaftcover that is leaking?

> i do agree with you about not using stuff like that but i guess i
> cannot use synthetic till i get the head gasket replaced right?

Yes, you can use synth oil, won't make a difference.  :o)

Cheers!
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 22 Jun 2005 20:49 GMT
> i do agree with you about not using stuff like that but i guess i
> cannot use synthetic till i get the head gasket replaced right?

The black alloy cover has a seal that seals the cams/valve lifters off
from the outside air.
that can leak. Sometimes a little tightening can help, but should be
more than $100US to have changed by a garage.

the head gasket is much more serious. If that goes, kiss good night to
lots of money to change.
Signature

Carl Robson
"Sorry Sir the meatballs are orf"
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 08:43 GMT
> you will need to suck the present trans oil out thru the side cover or
> remove one of the covers from under the car.

Or have it sucked out, through the fill-hole. Remember, that if you change
to a synthetic gearbox-oil (I can recommend Saab MTF0063), to flush the
gearbox with one liter synth first. Drive it quiet for about 8 miles, return
and remove the oil, and the put the correct amount of MTF0063 in...

> I don't reckon Mobil 1 to be any better than Castrol's Syntec. I
> alternate depending on what's on sale.

Saab factory-fill is Mobil1 0W-40.

> Synthetics tend to leak more, so keep a close eye on this. If you had a
> leaking problem before, stick with conventional or use a blend.

Modern synthetic oils doesn't attack seals. What often happens is that synth
oil has cleaning-additives, which will remove deposits in the engine. This
will often show bad seals.....

Cheers!
Malt_Hound - 24 Jun 2005 14:23 GMT
> you will need to suck the present trans oil out thru the side cover or
> remove one of the covers from under the car.
>
> I don't reckon Mobil 1 to be any better than Castrol's Syntec. I
> alternate depending on what's on sale.

Ah, but I have heard exactly the opposite.  Mobil 1 is a true PAO
synthetic oil and Castrol is not.

-Fred W
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 29 Jun 2005 15:51 GMT
> > you will need to suck the present trans oil out thru the side cover or
> > remove one of the covers from under the car.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -Fred W

Actually, I believe it is where it is made?
In the US, it is a cracked mineral that is sold as a synthetic because
of the cracking process. In Europe, it is a full synthetic (although in
the past I've seen other oil brands sold as Synthetic and full synthetic
for oils in their range, rather than semi and synthetic).
Signature

Carl Robson
Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Pooh Bear - 22 Jun 2005 03:29 GMT
> hey my 1990 9000 cd 2.0 turbo(104000 mil) is do for an oil change i
> think all its life its hade regular oil in it but this time i want to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> i here that mobil 1 synthetic is one of the best out there should i use
> this in my car?

I hear that Mobil 1 is considered the 'dog's bollocks' in the synthetic oil
market. I have *no* idea how to choose which grade they offer for normal
road use however that is most appropriate for your needs. Too many options
! Great for racers for sure.

I buy the synth or semi-synth oil that my excellent local motor factors
offers. I'll give semi-synth 5k miles and synth 10k miles. Remember to
flush between oil changes.

I doubt that you drive a sufficiently agressive and fast routine to justify
the likes of Mobil 1.

> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic

Why ? Does Saab suggest this ? I gather it's meant to be left alone. Mine
was totally clean @ around 150k miles.

Graham
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 08:51 GMT
> ....Remember to
> flush between oil changes.

EEeehhhhh......no!

> I doubt that you drive a sufficiently agressive and fast routine to
> justify
> the likes of Mobil 1.

None the less, it's a damn good oil, and it'll give a very short cold start.
In fact Mobil made at test of it's oil a few years back: Filled a Caddy,
with the V8 NorthStar engine with the Mobil1 fully synth. They ran it for
60,000 miles, only changing filters, at the regular intervals. After the
60,000 miles, the oil was still good.

>> my car is a 5spd and i also want to change the tranny oil to synthetic
>
> Why ? Does Saab suggest this ? I gather it's meant to be left alone. Mine
> was totally clean @ around 150k miles.

No, but you'll still keep your gearbox for a longer time. Think about the
water and stuff, that builds up over the years. I change my gearoil once a
years.

Signature

----------------------------------------------------------
Saab - Fordi livet er for kort til biler med dårlig sikkerhed!

Pooh Bear - 22 Jun 2005 12:52 GMT
> > ....Remember to flush between oil changes.
>
> EEeehhhhh......no!

Why not ?

removing any possible carbon based sh.t should be good - no ? My local engineer
recommends it and I concur. Use flushing additive before oil is drained or run
the engine briefly after draining with flushing oil before re-filling.

Graham
Henrik B. - 22 Jun 2005 13:07 GMT
>> > ....Remember to flush between oil changes.
>>
>> EEeehhhhh......no!
>
> Why not ?

Not neccesary. Modern synthetic oils has cleaning additives, which prevents
the build-up of carbon deposits. Any dirt will end up in the filter anyway.

> removing any possible carbon based sh.t should be good - no ? My local
> engineer
> recommends it and I concur.

Of course he does - he earns more money.  :o)

> Use flushing additive before oil is drained or run
> the engine briefly after draining with flushing oil before re-filling.

A waste of money. Lower the oil-change interval if you feel like it,
instead.

All my Saabs have more than 150.000 miles on the clock, and if you remove
the top lid, the engine is all fine and clean inside.

Cheers!
Pooh Bear - 23 Jun 2005 05:57 GMT
> >> > ....Remember to flush between oil changes.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Not neccesary. Modern synthetic oils has cleaning additives, which prevents
> the build-up of carbon deposits. Any dirt will end up in the filter anyway.

Ok but the OP hasn't been using synthetic oil - just standard 'dino' oil.

I've been using synthetic or semi-synth but have no idea what the previous
owners used so played safe as I saw it.

Graham
Henrik B. - 23 Jun 2005 15:18 GMT
> I've been using synthetic or semi-synth but have no idea what the previous
> owners used so played safe as I saw it.

Start using synth-oil, and keep an eye on the colour of the oil. It's okay
for it to turn dark brown, but does it go too black, change oil and filter.
This means that the oil is "cleaning" out old deposits.

Signature

----------------------------------------------------------
Saab - Fordi livet er for kort til biler med dårlig sikkerhed!

Pooh Bear - 23 Jun 2005 16:48 GMT
> > I've been using synthetic or semi-synth but have no idea what the previous
> > owners used so played safe as I saw it.
>
> Start using synth-oil, and keep an eye on the colour of the oil. It's okay
> for it to turn dark brown, but does it go too black, change oil and filter.
> This means that the oil is "cleaning" out old deposits.

It's synth in there now.

What you say figures.

Cheers,        Graham
 
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