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Car Forum / Saab Cars / July 2005I'm thinking of rejoining the fold....
And this time with a FPT 2.3 9000. Would love a 900 convertable FPT (89-91ish) but still can't quite stretch. So, opinions. If I was to budget £2.5-3k for a car. 9000 CD Carlsson 2.3 9000 CSE 2.3 FPT 9000 Anniversary 2.3 FPT 9000 Aero I deliberatley left out Griffins, as I want a manual rather than auto box. I know that I will be at the ropier/higher mileage end of the Aeros, and even a good CD Carlsson will be ropier, but pennies by comparison, and not be as well specced, but what do you think? Prices for 9000s seemed to have taken a real drop in the last year. When I was looking, before getting the Celica, Aeros were still fetching £4-6k, it seems to be from £2.5k for a rough one to 4k for a good one. Anything specific to look out for?  SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > 9000 Anniversary 2.3 FPT ... That's the one ... Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ Var tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close > > 9000 Anniversary 2.3 FPT > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Var tog vägen vägen? > SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close Paul, "Where train street street" is what your sentence means in Swedish. FYI SaabGuy <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig >> Var tog vägen vägen? > "Where train street street" is what your sentence means in Swedish. "Where did the road go?" It's a play on words where the same word used twice has a different meaning, given the context, like "ska vi ha sex klockan sex?" :) Train is tåg, anyway ... Paul Det är botten på botten SAAB: Nothing on earth comes close > <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig > >> Var tog vägen vägen? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Det är botten på botten > SAAB: Nothing on earth comes close Paul, I know, I wasn't sure if you knew. I also thought that you didn't have the Swedish Character display, so you replaced å with o. :) Ingen Födda! Vi Ses! Saab Guy! >> <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig >>>> Var tog vägen vägen? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> has a different meaning, given the context, like "ska vi ha sex klockan >> sex?" :) >> Det är botten på botten >> SAAB: Nothing on earth comes close > I know, I wasn't sure if you knew. I also thought that you didn't have the > Swedish Character display, so you replaced å with o. :) I particularly like the phrase ... It embodies a normal pleasure-driving Sunday afternoon for me, after thrashing around archetypal English country lanes in the snaab SAAB and ending up in a field surrounded by cows or fast approaching a hedge and a field of worried looking sheep ;) It also reminds me of the mid-1980s SAAB adverts ... You know ... The one where the C900 drives off the cliff and turns into a Gripen! Nothing on earth comes close ... > Ingen Födda! I'm still learning and in no way fluent ... Just being clever :) Give me a clue ... "I wasn't starting anything!" as a literal translation? Paul Var tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close > >> <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig > >>>> Var tog vägen vägen? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > me of the mid-1980s SAAB adverts ... You know ... The one where the C900 > drives off the cliff and turns into a Gripen! Paul, Oh my god! I don't remember that! You know I am trying an exhaustive search worldwide for ALL SAAB Adverts to eventually place on saabvideos.com? http://www.securearchitecture.com/saab/saab_videos.html Do you have that video of the C900 driving off a cliff and turning into a Gripen????? Wow!!! What year was that? Do you have any videos? SaabGuy >>>> <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig >>>>>> Var tog vägen vägen? [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Do you have that video of the C900 driving off a cliff and turning into a > Gripen????? Wow!!! What year was that? Do you have any videos? Just to jog people's memories ... The middle picture here is from the advert: <http://www.saabcentral.com/features/saab_900/saab_ads/saab_ads_1985.php> That advert was tacked to the beginning of a 'Top Gear' (UK car programme) article about the 9-5 IIRC. That was a memorable article, since the presenter Jeremy Clarkson described SAAB owners as Dentists and Architects and 'having "that" grin' ... It is available online ... Somewhere. Paul Vart tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close > >> I particularly like the phrase ... It embodies a normal pleasure-driving > >> Sunday afternoon for me, after thrashing around archetypal English country [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Vart tog vägen vägen? > SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close Paul, Excellent. "Top Gear". Of course, a takeoff of "Top Gun" as they were done in 1985, which makes sense. Now just to find out how to get a copy of the video itself. Do you know where to get the video? I've been searching online for 3-4 years now and I have realized that I needed to contact the AD agencies themselves directly for old VHS videocasettes. Do you know any of the Saab Ad Agencies in the U.K. from the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc? Thanks. SaabGuy > <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Train is tåg, anyway ... and "väg" is road, street more corresponds to "gata" a word you still can find in older English east coast cities influenced by the vikings: "Kings Gate" is something I have seen in Lincoln, I guess York has something similar. Just to correct the grammar: "Vart tog vägen vägen?" is the correct expression. "Where" can be translated either into "vart" if it's a direction involved, or into "var" if it's just a position, like in "Where are you?" = "Var är du?". Compare with "Where are you going?" = "Vart går du?" End of Swedish grammar lesson (part 1?). A more complicated example: - Far, får får får? - Nej, får får inte får, får får lamm. - Father, does sheep give birth to sheep? - No, sheep don't give birth to sheep, sheep give birth to lamb. (or maybe it can be made shorter by someone who is more fluent in English?) Sorry for the very off-topic post! Signatureth >> <snip>Below is the phrase in question from my current .sig >>>> Var tog vägen vägen? >>> "Where train street street" is what your sentence means in Swedish. >> "Where did the road go?" It's a play on words where the same word used twice >> has a different meaning, given the context, like "ska vi ha sex klockan [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "Kings Gate" is something I have seen in Lincoln, I guess York has > something similar. Indeed it does ... Thanks ... I understand the difference much better now. It does make more sense in Swedish, given the more rigid "gridiron" layout of a lot of towns, but York does have actual gates at the end of the gaten. > Just to correct the grammar: "Vart tog vägen vägen?" is the correct > expression. "Where" can be translated either into "vart" if it's a > direction involved, or into "var" if it's just a position, like in > "Where are you?" = "Var är du?". Compare with "Where are you going?" = > "Vart går du?" Noted! Like "Vart tog han vägen?" ... "Where has he gone?" > End of Swedish grammar lesson (part 1?). I hope ... It's hard enough learning a language as an adult. Someone who actually speaks the language as a counterpoint in very useful indeed! > A more complicated example: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > - No, sheep don't give birth to sheep, sheep give birth to lamb. > (or maybe it can be made shorter by someone who is more fluent in English?) I'll definitely remember this one! > Sorry for the very off-topic post! Not at all. The SAAB experience is much more than just the car ... :) Paul Vart tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close Salutations: > in article MPG.1d35de0c4e10fc6b98b0fa@news.individual.net, Sleeker GT > Phwoar [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Var tog vägen vägen? > SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close Agreed - likely the least abused and relatively young vintage with the stronger 5 speed. Will start to cost more as it creeps into 125,000 + miles as the rubber parts and electronic sensors start to get old. Be prepared for higher running costs over the C900 - but not as breath taking as the NG900. If you can find a 1995 that has had the age related work done - you will be equally pleased, the body shells after 1993 are less prone to rust (though not impervious) and, I feel, the build quality was a little more precise between 1993 and 1996. There is a lot of feeling against the TCS system. Personally, given the snow and ice conditions here and it's primary use as a family ride - I like it on the 5 speed. Saves tires if nothing else and it comes with a dash off switch that can be added if not already in place. The early Aero at 225hp is *everything* they are reputed to be - the seats are even better than stock and it will pull harder than anything you've ever driven from Trollhatten. That said - they have usually been run harder than average models and everything that means. Stating the obvious - don't buy on the model - buy on the car itself. This is more true of the 9000 than the C900 because of the electronics involved. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Glen Frey - All She Wants to Do Is Dance http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/045.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in - RealAudio 8+ Required - all the Time > Salutations: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> ... That's the one ... > Stating the obvious - don't buy on the model - buy on the car itself. This > is more true of the 9000 than the C900 because of the electronics involved. That's the crux of all the advice we could give. I'd still advise a late C900 or the pinnacle year of the T8 (1989 MY) for simplicity, but our man seems to have his heart set on a 9000. I don't blame him ... They're lovely cars. The electrical failures on the 9000s (well, any car with that many electrical systems) become more of a PITA than a cause of a breakdown. The later the car, the greater the chance less has already failed :) Paul Var tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close >There is a lot of feeling against the TCS system. Personally, given the >snow and ice conditions here and it's primary use as a family ride - I >like it on the 5 speed. Saves tires if nothing else and it comes with a >dash off switch that can be added if not already in place. that is my biggest concern about a 9k, the expensive nature of a fly by wire throttle and the TCS or ABS failing. >The early Aero at 225hp is *everything* they are reputed to be - the seats >are even better than stock and it will pull harder than anything you've >ever driven from Trollhatten. That said - they have usually been run >harder than average models and everything that means. True, very true. >Stating the obvious - don't buy on the model - buy on the car itself. This >is more true of the 9000 than the C900 because of the electronics involved. Thanks. Yes, I know, I may need to wait a little while before I do even start looking, but I think I'm set to spend a little time on it this time too. No rushing. I'm not setting myself on a particular spec so if the right car comes up, I won't discount it immediatley based on model. I know Saabs drive better on manual gearbox, but does the 9000 autobox take much out of the experience, it is just that auto 9000's are actually selling at roughly 50% of the price of manuals, and I've never driven an auto. Now might be a good time to sell the Celica as it still has 12 months MOT, and I' taking it in to get the brake flexis replaced as the old ones are definatley showing signs of cracking (don't know how the MOT man missed it, both me and my mechanic both spotted it, and reckoned it would be at least an advisory note). While I'm driving it, it is going to be safe, an for as long as possible, in full working order. I don't neglect a car just because I plan to sell it. If I spotted it, and it might be important, then so might a buyer. it might put them off, it might reduce the price, and worse, they might not see it, they might buy it, and something might fail that I knew could do with repairing/replacing. Would anyone consider a repaired insurance write off. According to the seller, this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4559761553 was a Category C insurance write off, just because of the £1000 replacment cost of a bumper (insurance price) and the bonnet). I looks solid, it looks straight, and it looks like he is being honest when you question him. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >>There is a lot of feeling against the TCS system. Personally, given the >>snow and ice conditions here and it's primary use as a family ride - I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that is my biggest concern about a 9k, the expensive nature of a fly by > wire throttle and the TCS or ABS failing. The throttle is still an old fashioned wire. TCS can always be disconnected and ABS is on almost all cars today and is a very reliable system. >>The early Aero at 225hp is *everything* they are reputed to be - the seats >>are even better than stock and it will pull harder than anything you've [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > actually selling at roughly 50% of the price of manuals, and I've never > driven an auto. My former 9000 was an 130 hp normally aspirated engine, the current is an 150 hp turbo, two completely different cars but I think the main difference being the turbo, which makes the car much quicker. My brother borrowed the 9000 auto for some time when his C900, 118 (or maybe it is 130 since it is a 16-valve engine) hp manual was in the garage, and he felt the 9000 to be equally fast and much more comfortable. Signatureth Salutations: Sorry for the top-post - but I can save some 'ctrl snipping time if I do. I managed to cut off my right thumb-pad last weekend working on the motorhome and the ctrl key makes the stitches hurt when I type. The TCS system was I think dropped in 1995 - so after that, you can avoid it if you don't want it. I only mention it in defence given severe local conditions here, where it has proved useful and effective. Knowing you to be a fellow 'utility classic' enthusiast like myself, I think you will be able to work out most of the basic electrical gremlins as they come up with a little help from saabnet and Google. Interestingly, most of the problems are at the sensors or solenoids rather than the computer units in the 9000. But, a lot of mechanics give up in despair given that it almost always appears to be a computer problem rather than a sender and for the most part - what error codes as are available - are wrong. On the upside, there is a *wealth* of info regarding device resistances which has saved me considerable expense with my month 3 1993 Aero so far. As the Celica, really nice car - but I'm afraid I just can't get in and out of it in any comfortably dignified manner anymore. So, essentially, I can't comment on your call there. As to the ebay link - the seller is correct, the damage is bolt on and assuming it closes in the sub 2,500 quid mark - you have a *very* workable and desirable platform upon which to proceed. The SAAB 9000 Aero is, in my opinion at least, the bespoke Savile row suit of automobilia. It really is a timelessly classic design, covering an amazingly comfortable and functional engineering package. If I have any compaint at all - it is the lack of double A-Arms in the front. The model listed is a good year for Aero's - it appears to have *all* the amenities including a mundo swank arm rest and factory child booster and while I still prefer the Black on Black examples, the forest green and grey is still fetching. I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked the alignment out a bit. But given competent repair work, it is very easily repairable as described. Basically, while it may look like a big hit - I can tell you from practical experience with my 1989 that the minimal crumple pictured was very probably gained at sub 8mph and would have not disturbed most, if any, of the important structure of the car. If it didn't need new glass - everything is peachy. This is very unlike the C900 where a front end hit like that would usually bugger the A-Pillars or clip at the firewall given the thicker and harder metal in play where the hood and/or the bumper latched in. If I didn't already have the Aero I always wanted and didn't drive on the wrong side of the road - you would be bidding against me at this juncture actually. I would be in touch with the seller and see if you can get a quick listen to the machine in person - if it checked out - I'd go as deep at 3,000 quid on that example. As to automatics, the great problem isn't the drivability of the autobox - in fact - it is an exceptional automatic as compared to most on the road. However, they are so hugely expensive to repair when they wear out and relatively hard to come by in good used or reliably rebuild condition - that many 9000's simply are written off when the automatic punches out. Personally - I just think the 9000 is a lot more fun with a 5 speed at the end of the day. Good luck brother Carl. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Glen Frey - All She Wants to Do Is Dance http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/045.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in - RealAudio 8+ Required - all the Time >> There is a lot of feeling against the TCS system. Personally, given the >> snow and ice conditions here and it's primary use as a family ride - I [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > I looks solid, it looks straight, and it looks like he is being honest > when you question him. > Salutations: > > Sorry for the top-post - but I can save some 'ctrl snipping time if I do. > I managed to cut off my right thumb-pad last weekend working on the > motorhome and the ctrl key makes the stitches hurt when I type. I think that after 15 years, I've finally seen a reasonable reason to top-post. > I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the > control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked the > alignment out a bit. But given competent repair work, it is very easily > repairable as described. Yes, that's where my concerns would be also. Anything that took a load in a direction it normally wouldn't, so suspension & mounts, also steering maybe, depending on a few things. Worth having a 4-wheel alignment check done, but not a reason not to buy it. > > I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the > > control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > steering maybe, depending on a few things. Worth having a 4-wheel > alignment check done, but not a reason not to buy it. The only downer I can see here (as long as he has the relevant VIC certificate) is that I have to notify the my insurance that it is a crashed repaired former total loss vehicle that I am insuring. They will reduce the value, and increase the premium for that reason. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >> Salutations: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think that after 15 years, I've finally seen a reasonable reason to > top-post. Feeling better this morning - it still sort of dials up through the day as I work though. Here's a tip for team here. Keep a jug of clean filtered or bottled water in the fridge when you are undertaking any repairs, it makes it all *much* more easy for the medics when they sew whatever your cut off back on. >> I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the >> control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > steering maybe, depending on a few things. Worth having a 4-wheel > alignment check done, but not a reason not to buy it. Given Carl's reply regarding the VIC being issued, I think this machine could really be a deal. As you might remember I wrote off my 1989 and discovered that the forward panels were extremely crushable. I figure the 9000 shell, being a *just* pre-airbag design, is actually really good at absorbing and containing damage to the panel group. So I think the damage looks a lot worse than it actually was. My take is that the insurance company wrote it off simply to save on the paperwork and whoever fixed it simply unbolted the hood, bumper shroud, perhaps the radiator clip - replaced them all and topped everything off with a fresh spray. The record will always follow the car, so it is permenantly going to be worth less on the used market - but if you are buying to run until it runs no more - a great deal. I really think the work outlined is very likely all it needed because when I got run over by a dodge 4x4 it really didn't send any kind of pressure wave through the frame on my 9000. All the damage was completely contained on the end of the front cliip. Heck, I thought all that had happened was that the lights had been kissed off until I tried to pull it over to the curb and climbed over the bumper beam on the way in. It might still be on the road today had the rust not already really gotten out of hand in the rear end. Anyway - looks like a real peach to me. Wish I lived over there as I would actually be bidding on it myself. On that note - regrets as regards the London bombings. Tragic business, very sorry to hear it. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Joe Cocker - Bird on a Wire http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/060.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in - RealAudio 8+ Required - all the Time > I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the > control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > disturbed most, if any, of the important structure of the car. If it > didn't need new glass - everything is peachy. I've discovered that as it is a Category C write off, to be legal again, it doesn't just require an MOT certificate, but also a Vehicle Inspection Certificate (VIC) which I assume would include checks that it was straight, aligned and road worthy, and legal to put onto the road. I've contacted the seller to check if he has that certificate. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > > I would think that the impact very probably took a few years off the > > control arm bushings and engine mounts and may have well have knocked the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I've contacted the seller to check if he has that certificate. He has the V5 logbook, and the VIC (post repair inspection certificate). I think this might be one to watch. And I might have a train to catch. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > Would anyone consider a repaired insurance write off. > According to the seller, this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I looks solid, it looks straight, and it looks like he is being honest > when you question him. In which case ask him if he previously listed it on ebay. I could swear I've seen it before ( possibly for sale unrepaired ). I'd ask if the ac is working too. Graham > In which case ask him if he previously listed it on ebay. I could swear I've > seen it before ( possibly for sale unrepaired ). I did better than that. When I found out it was a repaired CAT C, I asked if he had the compulsory VIC (Vehicle inspection certificate) for Cat C or worse vehicles. He hasn't replied yet SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > And this time with a FPT 2.3 9000. > Would love a 900 convertable FPT (89-91ish) but still can't quite [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > getting the Celica, Aeros were still fetching £4-6k, it seems to be from > £2.5k for a rough one to 4k for a good one. A has already been said, an Anniversary is likely to have been better looked after, but I don't think there'll be a great deal in it. I'd personally avoid Carlssons, but that's because I don't like the way they look. > Anything specific to look out for? As far as things to look out for, there are very few common faults on these cars. Heater matrix, but that's no big deal really. Look out for smokey turbos, especially on overrun. Look for a nice clean car with as much history as you can get. I've seen a few bent rear axle tubes on 9ks, caused by idiot garages jacking them up in the middle. This ruins the rear camber. Take a quick look underneath. They're good cars, and a 2.3T will be lots of fun. Hope you find a good one. SignatureGrunff <snip> Discussion about which 9000 model would be a good replacement for a Toyota Celica GT4, given that the potential owner has already owned a C900. > I'd > personally avoid Carlssons, but that's because I don't like the way they > look. There's something quite wrong with you, isn't there? :) <mutter>BMWs ... Not liking Carlssons ...</mutter> 9000 Carlies look fckn beefy ... They're a gorgeous slab of retro-action. Aside from a pre-facelift CD, they're my favourite 9000 shape. > They're good cars, and a 2.3T will be lots of fun. Hope you find a good > one. On the 2.3 9000, how do you distinguish between the 170 BHP LPT and the 200 BHP FPT? Is it still a case of a boost gauge on the dash? My mate's 9000 Anniversary is reputedly the 170 BHP LPT, although it does have an intercooler and the Aero-style exhaust. He bought it from my usual SAAB specialist mechanics. According to what I've read, the LPT does not have an intercooler, so perhaps my garage just overlooked that when I missed it on first perusal and he's actually bought a 200 BHP FPT. It does feel very fast! Paul Var tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close >On the 2.3 9000, how do you distinguish between the 170 BHP LPT and the 200 >BHP FPT? Is it still a case of a boost gauge on the dash? My mate's 9000 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >first perusal and he's actually bought a 200 BHP FPT. It does feel very >fast! I think it has the intercooler, but not the boost gauge. AFAIK, they are even easier to to make into FPTs than C900's are, because of the presence of the IC. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >> On the 2.3 9000, how do you distinguish between the 170 BHP LPT and the 200 >> BHP FPT? Is it still a case of a boost gauge on the dash? My mate's 9000 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > AFAIK, they are even easier to to make into FPTs than C900's are, > because of the presence of the IC. From what I've read, I suspect he just needs a software re-map to unlock the full Aero potential. The VIN didn't give away any clues, apart from marking it out as the correct model. The power of the vehicle is still at question. It does feel a lot more than 170 BHP; more like another mate's 325 which should be a similar weight and is around 200 BHP. The Anni is a lurvely car ... There are a couple near you on Auto Trader, but they're both autos. The manual is still a very comfortable ride ... Completely different to the "wheelies" you pull in the C900 :) Give Ross (on SAAB Central/UK SAABs) a shout ... He's a former C900 pilot with an uprated Anniversary model. LOL! Just googled back through groups.google.com for our conversation a couple of years ago when Skoda Pilot was talked into the C900 :) Happy memories :) Paul Var tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close >LOL! Just googled back through groups.google.com for our conversation a >couple of years ago when Skoda Pilot was talked into the C900 :) Happy >memories :) Aye. So there are. Remember discovering your site with your historical pictures of Saabs you owned before Orca, and the fateful shunting. The meeting up with you on here, and the other two Saab forums. SignatureCarl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > There's something quite wrong with you, isn't there? :) > <mutter>BMWs ... Not liking Carlssons ...</mutter> I just think it's a bit much... > On the 2.3 9000, how do you distinguish between the 170 BHP LPT and the 200 > BHP FPT? Is it still a case of a boost gauge on the dash? My mate's 9000 > Anniversary is reputedly the 170 BHP LPT, although it does have an > intercooler and the Aero-style exhaust. Boost gauge and APC solenoid. Even the boost gauge can be hit and miss. SignatureGrunff |
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