> > I think it might have been a pump until it is refilled. But once in awhile
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> David.
> line out of the evaporator you can determine the superheat which is a fairly
> good indication of refrigerant quantity. In practice many people just
> measure the low side pressure and the air temperature and guestimate though.
fairly good or correct?, there's a difference. One is correct, the
other can be either too little gas and consequently too little
lubricant, the other is too much gas and high pressures leading to a
stressed compressor and potential premature failure.
I know you can get the kits in Walmart etc and i'm sure many people are
perfectly happy with them. All i'm saying is that there's the
guesstimate/estimate whatever you want to call it and then there's the
proper way as specified by the manufacturers which is why the people
that do it properly, use scales and not just a pair of gauges.
Incidentally, not all cars have a high pressure gauge take off, Volvo
850 for example thus making the top-up concept even harder.
FWIW, I recently had my 9000 re-gassed, not that I suspected anything
wrong with it, just that I didn't know the history of the A/C and wanted
to have a known datum. My usual chap came round and connected the
gauges and was pretty horrified by the high pressure shooting round to
400psi and what he thought was an audibly straining compressor.
As an experiment, he emptied the system and measured the recovered
amount which was 1.2kg when the proper charge should be 950g.
Hopefully, i've spared my compressor a premature death. If people want
to go ahead and guesstimate, that's just fine by me, it's not my money
that's going to go on a new compressor. :)
David.
James Sweet - 31 Jul 2005 04:56 GMT
> fairly good or correct?, there's a difference. One is correct, the
> other can be either too little gas and consequently too little
> lubricant, the other is too much gas and high pressures leading to a
> stressed compressor and potential premature failure.
It's one of three common established and acceptable methods for charging
residential central A/C systems and heat pumps and I've used it successfully
in automotive systems as well, which I've found to be less critical overall,
especially if they have a TXV rather than a more tempermental fixed orifice.
Optimal charge varies slightly depending on outside ambient and inside
return air temperature, the factory specified charge is a compromise that
should be fine for most climates, a little over or under is not generally a
problem.
The lubricant is separate from the refrigerant, you can get oil/refrigerant
top off kits because when refrigerant leaks oil tends to leak as well but
when charging a system from scratch the oil is added separately. The problem
with way too much refrigerant is high head pressure and excessive load on
the compressor, and too little results in not enough refrigerant to
adaquately cool the compressor but there is some leeway.
Sleeker GT Phwoar - 31 Jul 2005 09:31 GMT
>FWIW, I recently had my 9000 re-gassed, not that I suspected anything
>wrong with it, just that I didn't know the history of the A/C and wanted
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>As an experiment, he emptied the system and measured the recovered
>amount which was 1.2kg when the proper charge should be 950g.
I know the feeling.
My Celica which I am getting rid of needed refilling.
I know because I accidently opened one of the compressor lines instead
of removing one of it's mount bolts when trying to get to something
behind it, no gas wooshed out, but some dye dribbled.
no gass came out. As the Celica was a nasty R12 system, I had to find a
replacement. Found an Ebay UK auction for 1 Kilo R49 or R314 (R12 drop
in) and a valve/filler tube. As I had already "broken the seal" and was
selling the car soon, and so few have working aircon anyway, I thought I
might just give it a top up.
System takes 700g R12 roughly, and R314 needs between 10 and 20% less.
So with a set of kitchen scales, and the site glass, I got about 580-
600g of R314 regrigerant in. It is leaking. But only from the O ring I
disturbed when I opened the pipe. Has stayed cold now for over a month.
Was absolutley great at the end of June when it was toasting hot.
Once it has leaked out, I reckon getting the O-ring replaced, give it a
proper drier/reciever replacement if I keep it, and a proper Vac/Dry,
lube and regas will sort that out.
All old R12 users, look for R49/R413 (essentially the same thing), or
RS24. RS24 was developed as a replacment for refrigerated trucks that
used R12. All those three are added as a liquid rather than a gas. They
work.

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Carl Robson
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