Car Forum / Saab Cars / September 2005
Saabvideos.com Bandwidth statistic (500Gigs in 15 days)
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Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 17:14 GMT Grunff, others;
Here is the stats for Saabvideos.com
Overall, the site has gotten through about 500Gigs in 15 days.
SG
Grunff - 14 Sep 2005 17:21 GMT > Grunff, others; > > Here is the stats for Saabvideos.com > > Overall, the site has gotten through about 500Gigs in 15 days. Wow, that's quite a bit. We limit each server to no more than 200G a month, because much more than that and you're impacting server performance.
If I was selling that 500G commercially, I would charge around £8000pa for it.
 Signature Grunff
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 17:35 GMT > > Grunff, others; > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If I was selling that 500G commercially, I would charge around £8000pa > for it. Grunff,
What is £8000pa ? $8.00 USD?
We really need a good unlimited bandwidth server and fast.
SG
Grunff - 14 Sep 2005 22:04 GMT > What is £8000pa ? $8.00 USD? Lol. No, that'd be around 20000 USD per annum. You could probably buy the same kind of hosting in the US for around 8000 USD per annum.
> We really need a good unlimited bandwidth server and fast. Once again, there's no such thing as 'unlimited bandwidth'.
 Signature Grunff
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 22:27 GMT > > What is £8000pa ? $8.00 USD? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Once again, there's no such thing as 'unlimited bandwidth'. Grunff,
Thanks, but I did not make any money off of this ongoing project, nor do I plan to.
How on earth would I be wanting to spend any $$ to have it hosted ???
I spent money in shipping/receiving the videos though. Couldn't anyone help???
SG
Grunff - 15 Sep 2005 09:50 GMT > Thanks, but I did not make any money off of this ongoing project, nor do I plan to. > > How on earth would I be wanting to spend any $$ to have it hosted ??? > > I spent money in shipping/receiving the videos though. Couldn't anyone help??? The point I'm making is that you're asking for someone to contribute a relatively large sum of money - you need a fairly wealthy sponsor.
TBH, if I had that much money sitting around to spare, I'd be far more likely to donate it to a humanitarian project than a video library - sorry!
 Signature Grunff
Saab Guy - 15 Sep 2005 15:17 GMT > > Thanks, but I did not make any money off of this ongoing project, nor do I plan to. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > TBH, if I had that much money sitting around to spare, I'd be far more > likely to donate it to a humanitarian project than a video library - sorry! Grunff,
I hear ya, where is GM when we need them? :)
SG
Dexter J - 16 Sep 2005 18:58 GMT Salutations:
>> > What is £8000pa ? $8.00 USD? >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > SG Ok brother saab guy - at the risk of further annoying you - have you checked your raw logs yet? 500g a month is *very* heavy traffic for what is in the end a pretty simple vid site. Even big vids.
You need to do your math and consider if it is realistic that you have the human user base to justify the transfer totals ('bandwidth' as you are reading it actually means 'transfer totals' as brother Grunff was saying).
I did some quick math and I'm still pretty much convinced that between you and your host, it is configured so that:
a: a user re-downloads the vid every time they kick up a view.
b: you are being cross linked from one of several pirate sites (again - hello apnic).
c: you are being slurped by one of many bots out there which rightfully need to be banned.
Look - I know that popular wisdom has it that any 6 year old can put up a full bore multi-media website. However, it takes some actual real effort to set it up and administer it so that it doesn't break the bank once it's up.
Very few site hosts take care of this for some really good reasons and the transfer warning you have received is sort of their way of saying you might want to look at all this more carefully. Ignorance of the detail is expensive as with any technical issue.
Sooo - again - get the raw logs and drop them into any spread sheet, then review on time stamp and kb transferred. You will find several entries that are getting your page, supporting images and starting vid downloads within a couple of secs. This is a likely a slurper. Look at banning the IP ranges. Although this is a pretty lame band-aid, it will help in the near term.
Check the referrer links into your site and back track to the IP. A red flag is a link to a vid without a corresponding visit to your site proper. You can use mod_rewrite to control this as you will likely find your vids (but not your site) dynamically linked through some very strange portals. You started posting direct vid links to this NG a while ago - they will be turning up in several places that swipe this NG to generate supposed content. Take some time with this:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=saabvideos&hl=en&lr=&start=10&sa=N
Please be aware - direct links are not always a pirate - sometimes someone just bookmarks a particular vid. However, with transfer heavy objects - it is good practice to require a site visit to download a vid.
Finally - you want to look at the multi-media client type that caches your vids locally at the user rather than calling a new download every time it's linked, stopped and started or paused.
Or, as I did, grudgingly replace your format with something that is substantially more controllable as regards transfer rates and client caching.
Now, I'm the first to say that RealAudio is kinda a pain - but most of my regulars are on non-windows platforms and have the beans to know how to cripple the annoying nagz-wares aspects of it. Also, as it has turned out, there are now a couple of good non-RealAudio free-warz players right now that will read the codex directly.
Anyway brother SAAB guy, I know this should be a freak out of the highest order for you at the moment. Here you are with a good free use site that is about to cost you winter tires. But like most things in life - doing the deeper reading will save you considerable bux once you are done.
Again - cheers and best of luck, it's a pretty good idea and worth the effort to figure these details out if you ask me.
--
Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Stevie Wonder - Living for the City http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/076.RAM
all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
Saab Guy - 17 Sep 2005 15:49 GMT Dexter,
I will forward your message to the site admin ASAP.
Thank you
SG
> Salutations: > [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads > no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time Pooh Bear - 15 Sep 2005 03:44 GMT > What is £8000pa ? $8.00 USD? You haven't heard of Pounds Sterling ? aka GBP symbol £. The currency used in the UK.
pa means 'per annum'. the cost for one year.
£8000 =~ USD 14,000
Graham
Shane Almeida - 14 Sep 2005 17:27 GMT > Overall, the site has gotten through about 500Gigs in 15 days. Have you looked into BitTorrent? You'd still need the storage on the server, but, as more people grab the torrents, the drain on the server would be less and less because the load is distributed among all users.
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 17:34 GMT > > Overall, the site has gotten through about 500Gigs in 15 days. > > Have you looked into BitTorrent? You'd still need the storage on the > server, but, as more people grab the torrents, the drain on the server > would be less and less because the load is distributed among all users. Shane,
What about people who don't know or have time to get into all of the detailed techy stuff like older people?
I don't think that's a realistic option. Hmm..
Any other ideas?
The web page is instrumental in the organization of such videos.
SG
David Taylor - 14 Sep 2005 20:31 GMT > What about people who don't know or have time to get into all of the detailed techy stuff like older people? > > I don't think that's a realistic option. Hmm.. It's not difficult, just create a link to a torrent client, and links to each of the seeds.
> Any other ideas? Seriously re-evaluate what it is that people want. I'd watch the videos for novelty factor but I don't need to download high quality ones (that take ages to come down) and burn them to the full DVD spec format.
David.
Pooh Bear - 15 Sep 2005 03:46 GMT > > What about people who don't know or have time to get into all of the detailed techy stuff like older people? > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for novelty factor but I don't need to download high quality ones (that > take ages to come down) and burn them to the full DVD spec format. I agree. I'm unlikely to burn then to DVD. Good enough quality to view on the PC would be fine.
In any event, I have trouble with finding a suitable codec, so I haven't viewed any.
Graham
Saab Guy - 15 Sep 2005 04:13 GMT > > > What about people who don't know or have time to get into all of the detailed techy stuff like older people? > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Graham Graham,
What do you mean a suitable codec?? The only codec you can view these in IS DIVX, nothing other than that.
Stop searching around, the info is right on the page itself specifically indicating that you NEED ONLY Divx codec to play said videos.
Good luck! Let me know once you've installed that divx codec and got it working.
SG
Dexter J - 14 Sep 2005 20:12 GMT Salutations:
> Grunff, others; > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > SG 500g suggests you need to pay much closer attention to your logs - I'll bet you have someone linking your vid collection through their site (hello apnic) or are being slurped (not as pleasant as it sounds) for the kicks.
As to developing cost effective commercial multi-media servers - and please excuse the shameless self promotion here - that is actually what dexterdyne thin servers are all about.
I ran into the same problems about 4 years ago and set up our prototype to research feeding binary dataforms directly from your own studio bandwidth/desktop workstation. Personally, I use RealMedia cores - but it pushes pretty much any kind of binary dataform out the door as needed. Just releasing Mark III this week as a matter of fact.
Here in Canada - you can buy a permanent IP and supporting line for about $150.00(CD) a month. Once up and running - all you have to do is to tune the server to limit outbound streams so as not to overload your pipe.
I'm afraid that I've never set one up in the Mother country and unless the site is a going concern, it probably isn't worth my per diem to fly me over. But I would encourage you to have a close look at win32_apache and a permanent IP/line if you intend to continue with your site. If nothing else - it will provide the kind .conf control you need to keep the rogues at bay.
There is the dynamic-ip option, but most ISP services have put a stop to that at their network heads via proxy and you are pretty much invisible to the search engines.
Anyway - first things first. Time to get the raw logs - not the cutie-pie online ones your host provides - but the raw log cores and start to look into mod-rewrite with .htaccess until you can get it on your own pipe.
Cheers and good luck.
--
Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Bad Voodoo Daddy - King of the Road http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/005.RAM
all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 20:37 GMT Dexter,
I already spent enough on getting the videos, etc.
I don't have money to spend monthly. Everyone who has watched these videos from my site has spent nothing, so if everyone can pool their money together, then we'll get somewhere.
Otherwise, we need a FREE alternative here.
SG
> Salutations: > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads > no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time Dexter J - 14 Sep 2005 20:49 GMT Salutations:
Understand entirely - I don't charge for/shil adverts for my streams either.
So again - you need to spend some time with your logs to confirm that you are not being pirated and to prevent it from happening in the future. Then, I guess, you probably want to look into dynamic-IP to see if you can feed the actual vid's from a dy-ip while still front ending the site from your host. It's sometimes choppy - but it might work depending on how your ISP is set up.
Again, have a close peak at Apache server and see if it gets you anywhere. You run an Ok site - but growth is a pwob. It's worth the time to try and figure this out.
Cheers and good luck.
--
Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Big Bad Voodoo Daddy - King of the Road http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/005.RAM
all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time
> Dexter, > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads >> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time Pidgeonpost - 14 Sep 2005 22:39 GMT > Salutations: > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] >>> all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads >>> no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time ....'ang on....is this an Saab newsgroup or an IT one......or what...?
Dave Hinz - 14 Sep 2005 23:01 GMT > ....'ang on....is this an Saab newsgroup or an IT one......or what...? Nice thing about subject lines, is if you read them, you can decide what threads to not read.
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 23:43 GMT > > ....'ang on....is this an Saab newsgroup or an IT one......or what...? > > Nice thing about subject lines, is if you read them, you can decide what > threads to not read. This is a SAAB Newsgroup, I guess that guy was lost.
SG
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 23:43 GMT Pidgeonpost,
This is a SAAB Newsgroup, I guess you are lost.
SG
> > Salutations: > > [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > > ....'ang on....is this an Saab newsgroup or an IT one......or what...? Pooh Bear - 15 Sep 2005 03:49 GMT > Pidgeonpost, > > This is a SAAB Newsgroup, I guess you are lost. He's not lost. He's posted here before.
He was making a jokette.
Graham
Saab Guy - 15 Sep 2005 04:11 GMT > > Pidgeonpost, > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Graham Graham,
Thanks.
Is a jokette, a joke from a female perspective??
SG
Pooh Bear - 15 Sep 2005 04:22 GMT > > > Pidgeonpost, > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Is a jokette, a joke from a female perspective?? I suppose it might be.
In my book it's simply a small joke though.
Graham
NeedforSwede2 - 15 Sep 2005 10:24 GMT > > > Pidgeonpost, > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > SG I thought that would be a Jokess?
 Signature Carl Robson Car PC Build starts again. http://smallr.com/rz Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
Pidgeonpost - 15 Sep 2005 13:53 GMT ....no, I'm not lost old fruit....just interested in Saab topics *including* your videos! Fascinating though the topic of bandwidth may be (I've had 39 years in IT), I confess to thinking that the thread was kind of drifting into a parallel newsgroup! No offence intended - trouble is with posting to NG's no-one can tell if you're having a larf....and some people will only see a joke by appointment... :o))
> Pidgeonpost, > [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] >> >> ....'ang on....is this an Saab newsgroup or an IT one......or what...? Al - 14 Sep 2005 20:52 GMT How about you just have a few "tasters" on the site, and sell the rest on DVD's?
Sorry, it's the consultant coming out in me... Al
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 20:53 GMT > How about you just have a few "tasters" on the site, and sell the rest on > DVD's? > > Sorry, it's the consultant coming out in me... > Al Al,
It would be illegal for me to sell the movies, I never made then myself.
SG
Malt_Hound - 15 Sep 2005 17:59 GMT >>How about you just have a few "tasters" on the site, and sell the rest on >>DVD's? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > SG I don't think so. Aren't all of these videos in the public domain? You should be able to make a collection and sell it on DVD.
I can't say how big the market would be, but hey... you never know.
 Signature -Fred W Toys for sale, Hey get your toys here: <http://users.adelphia.net/~fredwills/>
Dave Hinz - 14 Sep 2005 21:36 GMT > How about you just have a few "tasters" on the site, and sell the rest on > DVD's? He doesn't own the content he's "sharing" in the first place, Al.
Saab Guy - 14 Sep 2005 22:26 GMT > > How about you just have a few "tasters" on the site, and sell the rest on > > DVD's? > > He doesn't own the content he's "sharing" in the first place, Al. Dave,
Exactly.
SG
David Taylor - 15 Sep 2005 09:28 GMT > I don't have money to spend monthly. Everyone who has watched these videos from my site has spent nothing, so if everyone can pool their money together, then we'll get somewhere. > > Otherwise, we need a FREE alternative here. Frankly, the solution has been offered, it's called bittorrent and it's free.
David.
Saab Guy - 15 Sep 2005 15:16 GMT > > I don't have money to spend monthly. Everyone who has watched these videos from my site has spent nothing, so if everyone can pool their money together, then we'll get somewhere. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > David. David,
Normal people without much computer experience will NOT be able to download from bittorent.
SG
Gary Fritz - 15 Sep 2005 15:26 GMT Saab Guy <nothing@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Normal people without much computer experience will NOT be able to > download from bittorent. I don't agree. Installing the Azureus torrent client is trivial. Then you just double-click on a torrent link, and it opens in Azureus and starts downloading. When you get pieces downloaded, Azureus will automatically start sharing it with other users.
I started using Azureus without knowing ANYthing about bittorrent. It's not rocket science. As you get into it you can tweak and customize it more, but it works just fine out of the box.
http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
Gary
David Taylor - 15 Sep 2005 17:22 GMT > I started using Azureus without knowing ANYthing about bittorrent. It's > not rocket science. As you get into it you can tweak and customize it > more, but it works just fine out of the box. Quite.
David Taylor - 15 Sep 2005 17:22 GMT > Normal people without much computer experience will NOT be able to download from bittorent. Of course they will, it's hardly any different from working out that "Media player is unable to play the media file" due to a missing Divx/Xvid Codec.
Can "normal" people work out what to do given a few instructions?
Here's the instructions for Bittorrent:-
Step 1. "You will need to install a bittorrent client, click HERE to download one"
Step 2. "Click on the link to download the video"
Done.
Yes some people may have to forward a port on their router or configure the PC into the DMZ, some will some won't but right now you have a bigger problem than deciding whether the world is capable of loading a client instead of downloading a huge pile of data from just one overloaded site!
The solution is there, if you choose not to take it then I give up and will not make any more suggestions but good luck in finding the bandwidth you need. I can't help but think that you're looking for problems and not the solution.
If it makes you feel any better, why not continue to host them but also offer bittorrent links?
I just wonder how many "normal" people find them on your site in the first place instead of being newsgroup readers who are typically not what I would put into the normal "I just read the bbc or my portal site and check my email" category anyway. You shouldn't assume that everyone has little or no ability although to continue to attempt to solve their problem is commendable! :)
David.
saabyurk - 15 Sep 2005 01:32 GMT > Grunff, others; > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > SG Ryan, I asked this in the other thread also, just want to make sure you see the suggestion. Ryan, I know you don't think bittorrent would work so weill, but what about some kind of video ring setup. Say, I agree to host 2 or 3 gigs of the videos, and have a link to the next/previous site in the ring, a circular ring? If you could get enough volunteers, it would work, without the user needing any special skills or software. Ted
saabyurk - 15 Sep 2005 01:55 GMT > > Grunff, others; > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > without the user needing any special skills or software. > Ted Ryan, After thinking a bit, It wouldn't have to be a circular ring. Your video web page could have a page just like now, but each thumbnail could have a link to the site hosting that video. Maybe even, each video could be hosted at multiple sites, and the user could select a site to download from. Your bandwidth would be greatly reduced. Ted
Saab Guy - 15 Sep 2005 02:35 GMT > > Grunff, others; > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > without the user needing any special skills or software. > Ted Ted,
Say 3 Gigs each, that would require about close to 12 participants to host such files, then I would have to link to each of their sites.
The thing is, if someone's site is down, whatever videos those are cannot be downloaded.
It seems extremely more "involved".
I'm not trying to not accept an alternative, but it would be ideal for something more simple. Hmm..
SG
David Taylor - 15 Sep 2005 09:31 GMT > Say 3 Gigs each, that would require about close to 12 participants to host such files, then I would have to link to each of their sites. Have you tried bittorrent? You wouldn't have to link to the active participants which could be more than 12. :)
> The thing is, if someone's site is down, whatever videos those are cannot be downloaded. See "bittorrent"
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