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Car Forum / Saab Cars / October 2005cold start lag in first gear
Hi all, I have recently bought a used '97 Saab 900 SE 2.0 turbo, automatic, for my wife. The car has 145000 km and has been running great until the temperature has dropped recently and we have noticed a problem which concerns me. The temperature drop may be just a coincidence, though, as I do not notice much of a difference in behaviour on various days when the temperature fluctuates somewhat. We live in Canada, Toronto area. The car starts fine and idles very smoothly ~1000 rpm. However, when put in Drive the first time of the day it does not seem to have any power for the first few seconds. It just rolls slowly, almost as if the gas pedal was not depressed. I can push harder on accelerator and the rpm will go up, but the car will not speed up for these first few seconds. It eventually catches on, and drives off fine. It happens only the first 2 or 3 times when accelerating from stopped (I have two STOP signs in my residential complex before I get out to the street). After that, the car seems to have all the power it has always had and shifts to higher gears without problems. There are no stalling issues whatsoever. This only happens when the car has been standing for several hours - if I just stop for groceries or something and the car was warmed up, it behaves properly. I have looked through the group and other places and could not find a definitive answer to what the problem is. From what I found, it looks like it could be the fuel pump, but someone pointed at the transmission problems or vacuum leaks (although these are usually accompanied by rough idling, which is not the case here). I'll be going to the mechanic very soon, but wanted to at least have an idea what to expect. Thanks in advance, Jozek > Hi all, > > I have recently bought a used '97 Saab 900 SE 2.0 turbo, automatic, for > my wife. First thing I'd check is the level of automatic transmission fluid, your symptoms match that being low quite nicely. Easy to top off, but something to keep an eye on - it doesn't normally just "go away" by itself. Any red drips on the driveway lately? ruby-red color, slippery stuff? (...) > First thing I'd check is the level of automatic transmission fluid, your > symptoms match that being low quite nicely. Easy to top off, but > something to keep an eye on - it doesn't normally just "go away" by > itself. > > Any red drips on the driveway lately? ruby-red color, slippery stuff? Checked it last night, and it seems to be ok - about 3/4 of the way between MIN and MAX. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Checked it last night, and it seems to be ok - about 3/4 of the way > between MIN and MAX. Are you checking it exactly as the book says. ie engine running, put it in reverse then into drive so that all the fluid ways are full, and with the engine still running check the level. (...) > > Checked it last night, and it seems to be ok - about 3/4 of the way > > between MIN and MAX. > > > Are you checking it exactly as the book says. ie engine running, put it in > reverse then into drive so that all the fluid ways are full, and with the > engine still running check the level. I followed the manual - drove it for ~15km, parked on a flat surface, put the transmission in Park, let it idle, then to Neutral (thus going through Reverse) and back to Park, and checked the level with the engine running. I did not put it in Drive, as the book didn't mention it. Should I give it a try again, this time going through drive as well? Thanks for your help. > (...) > > > Checked it last night, and it seems to be ok - about 3/4 of the way [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it a try again, this time going through drive as well? > Thanks for your help. I don't think engaging drive again so soon after using it will make any difference but try it anyway since you went into park. Dave mentioned the fluids colour which needs to be red and not brown. If it is brownish it needs a few changes. When you start up the drive is in neutral, on engaging drive or reverse how quickly do you feel it start to grip? IIRC it should start to grip in about 2 seconds. How many miles has the box done? > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Thanks in advance, > Jozek I don't know if this explains your situation, but the NG900 automatic transmission will delay the shift from first to second gear after a cold start. This is supposedly to speed catalyst heating for emissons. It is mentioned in the owner's manual. Our 97 does this, and it can be quite annoying, especially when it drops hard into second gear. (...) > I don't know if this explains your situation, but the NG900 automatic > transmission will delay the shift from first to second gear after a cold > start. This is supposedly to speed catalyst heating for emissons. It is > mentioned in the owner's manual. Our 97 does this, and it can be quite > annoying, especially when it drops hard into second gear. That's not it in my case, as once the car gets going, it shifts into second nicely. It is just reluctant to actually get moving from standing still. Kind of as if the wheels were slipping (but they're not). Thanks anyways. Salutations: > (...) >> I don't know if this explains your situation, but the NG900 automatic [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > not). > Thanks anyways. Well brother Jozek - my take would be that your tranny filter is starting to back up a bit and should *really* be changed soon. You say you bought the car recently, it is possible the car sat for a while and some solids have settled on the bottom then moved. Or the seller poured something in the tranny to tighten it up for sale - but that is hard to know. Anyway, that being done, your shop will also know if there is anything odd going on by what they find in the tranny and filter. Do not go for a Jiffy Flush or anything - this usually only exacerbates any weaknesses down the road. Just have the pan pulled, change the filter and examine the solids. It might be a clutch-pack or band wearing out - but you don't know until you eliminate the basics. Best of luck. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Glen Frey - Smugglers Blues http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/046.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time > Salutations: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Well brother Jozek - my take would be that your tranny filter is starting to back up a bit and should *really* be changed soon. You say you bought the car recently, it is possible the car sat for a while and some solids have settled on the bottom then moved. Or the seller poured something in the tranny to tighten it up for sale - but that is hard to know. > Anyway, that being done, your shop will also know if there is anything odd going on by what they find in the tranny and filter. Do not go for a Jiffy Flush or anything - this usually only exacerbates any weaknesses down the road. Just have the pan pulled, change the filter and examine the solids. > It might be a clutch-pack or band wearing out - but you don't know until you eliminate the basics. No tranny filter in a NG900. To clean anything involves a complete stripdown. I am wondering if there is muck in the valve body which possibly could be cured by a series of flushes. We may now soon the condition of the fluid. Salutations: >> Salutations: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > not). >> > Thanks anyways. <snipped as being erroneous> > No tranny filter in a NG900. To clean anything involves a complete > stripdown. I am wondering if there is muck in the valve body which possibly > could be cured by a series of flushes. We may now soon the condition of the > fluid. Well you learn something new every day - I was sure it had a filter. Please excuse the false lead. Surely there must be some sort of catchment in the system? Even just a screen or a magnetic bolt, automatics make too many fines not to. My experiences with power flushing has been entirely negative in all instances - however, I've never owned anything post 1994. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Mr Ray Charles - Heavenly Music http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/207.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time > Well you learn something new every day - I was sure it had a filter. Please excuse the false lead. Surely there must be some sort of catchment in the system? Even just a screen or a magnetic bolt, automatics make too many fines not to. > My experiences with power flushing has been entirely negative in all instances - however, I've never owned anything post 1994. Hello Dexter J. Only a magnetic drain plug and this only lets out half the fluid, to get the box full of clean fluid takes about 3 to 4 drains and refills with a short run between each. I imagine the theory is that once a filter starts collecting bits the box is worn out. Salutations: >> Well you learn something new every day - I was sure it had a filter. > Please excuse the false lead. Surely there must be some sort of catchment in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > refills with a short run between each. I imagine the theory is that once a > filter starts collecting bits the box is worn out. Hey there brother John. Nice to meet you. I must say that is really very unfortunate as when I did run a 9000 with an automatic (and filter), despite the common wisdom, I was very satisfied with it overall. In fact, I drained and properly mothballed it in the basement in case anyone ever needs it (1989 2.0 Turbo). As regards new ones, I wonder if there might be any merit to adding an inline flow through filter between the cooler and the tranny once an owner is out of warrantee? I say this because despite the optimistic view that your car will rot out before the tranny needs to be replaced, the machine will eventually find itself sitting for extended periods of time and what solids the clutch packs and bands have released will most certainly start to gather in the pan. Once the pick-up gets a mouthful of that - well - hello Transmission rebuild. The fluid circuits on a performance automatic are just to tight to allow for it. I swear, sometime in my lifetime, they will start issuing cars with sealed hoods and a large sticker that says 'Caution, do not open. No user serviceable parts' - like stereo equipment. -- Radio Free Dexterdyne Top Tune o'be-do-da-day Mr Ray Charles - Heavenly Music http://www.dexterdyne.org/888/207.RAM all tunes - no cookies no subscription no weather no ads no news no phone in no sign up required - all the Time > Hey there brother John. Nice to meet you. > > I must say that is really very unfortunate as when I did run a 9000 with an automatic (and filter), despite the common wisdom, I was very satisfied with it overall. In fact, I drained and properly mothballed it in the basement in case anyone ever needs it (1989 2.0 Turbo). > As regards new ones, I wonder if there might be any merit to adding an inline flow through filter between the cooler and the tranny once an owner is out of warrantee? Thank you for your greeting Dexter J. I am rather wary of adding a filter to the cooling circuit, I would suggest that once you are sure the Dexron 11 is perfectly clean, after a number of flushes, simply keep an eye on it remaining the right colour. I do not believe a synthetic oil designed as a lubricant is the right fluid for an automatic box. Do you want to lubricate clutches? After many enquiries I decided to stay with Dexron 11. My interest in the NG900 box was aroused when I discovered my box was running on a mixture of fluid and water, my radiator was faulty. The previous owner was surprised the low coolant sign kept coming up! I believe the water boils away and steams out of the breather pipe, it had cleaned the underneath of the car in that area. > I don't know if this explains your situation, but the NG900 automatic > transmission will delay the shift from first to second gear after a cold > start. This is supposedly to speed catalyst heating for emissons. It is > mentioned in the owner's manual. Our 97 does this, and it can be quite > annoying, especially when it drops hard into second gear. That used to annoy me too. It is easy to defeat it by pushing the "snowflake" button at around the time you would like it to shift up - which drops it into 2nd nice and gently. |
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