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Car Forum / Saab Cars / January 2006Looking for my next Saab
OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's beginning to show her age (160,000ml) and with the amazing value of these cars in the UK I'm tempted to try the full pressure turbo version next. So... Much difference between the 2l & 2.3l in terms of performance, acceleration, economy? What exactly does "Aero" mean for the 9000? Avoid the 16v models? Forget about auto gear boxes? Should I avoid the anniversary re-issues? Ever bought a car off Ebay?? What I want is a *really* good example, in pristine condition that I can keep, love and cherish for the next 5 years or so.. Black, tan leather, 2.3litre, FPT / FSH @£2,500????? Any thoughts much appreciated Bob > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT > with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's > beginning to show her age (160,000ml) and with the amazing value of these > cars in the UK I'm tempted to try the full pressure turbo version next. > So... It's my understanding that LPTs can be converted to FPT relatively easily, so you might want to consider that option if the '92 is otherwise sound. John > > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT > > with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John Thanks John. I had first considered having my current car overhauled. I reckon it needs new engine mountings and a new exhaust. Apart from that, I'd want a new clutch (had a temporary fix by the local Saab garage who said it might last 6 months to a couple of years), and a new timing belt / chain and then a turbo conversion. But when you look at the cost of all that, it's difficult not to be tempted by something in better condition / less mileage and with the FPT... but maybe there is something in "better the devil you know" & all that. I HATE buying cars as I don't know that much about them, and Icould easily end up with a total lemon. I had the Saab garage check our old car out before I committed to buying. £80 well spent for peace of mind. "better the devil you know" & all that ...than the angel you don't? ...than an Esquimo on skis? What? Just wondering. We don't have that expession here. > "better the devil you know" & all that > > ...than the angel you don't? Pretty much, yeah. > ...than an Esquimo on skis? Although, I like yours better. >> "better the devil you know" & all that >> >> ...than the angel you don't? > > Pretty much, yeah. If he takes that attitude, he'll never change his car. SAABs never seem to go wrong enough to get to that point where you say, "sod it ... It's too much!" ... Even after being written off :) Paul Vart tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close >>>"better the devil you know" & all that >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Vart tog vägen vägen? > SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close Unless it is a GM Saab :-) I easily parted with a GM Saab. I stil have second thoughts about selling my 1985 C900 with the base 8V engine. However, I have a SPG C900 now, so it makes parting with 1985 somewhat easier :-) >>>> "better the devil you know" & all that >>>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> go wrong enough to get to that point where you say, "sod it ... It's too >> much!" ... Even after being written off :) > Unless it is a GM Saab :-) I easily parted with a GM Saab. I stil have > second thoughts about selling my 1985 C900 with the base 8V engine. > However, I have a SPG C900 now, so it makes parting with 1985 somewhat > easier :-) I let my '85 C900 8V go when I got the '89 C900 T8 (Aero style). I really regret letting that one go. It was a great car all round ... Turbos are fun, though, aren't they :) Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ >>>>>"better the devil you know" & all that >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > 1989 900 Turbo S > http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ The 8V base engine was somewhat underpowered, but it was the perfect match for winter driving in the C900. I had too much fun driving the 1985 C900 in the winter - it rusted out after 16 years from all of the salt on the roads. > "better the devil you know" & all that > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What? Just wondering. We don't have that expession here. "better the devil you know then the devil you don't know" at least that is the way I always heard it  SignatureStephen B. NYC To reply remove the first spam only > > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT > > with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's my understanding that LPTs can be converted to FPT relatively easily, so > you might want to consider that option if the '92 is otherwise sound. LPTs need an intercooler fitted to run at full pressure so its not so easy at all. Abbott will do this for a price. http://www.abbottracing.com/2003/index.htm Graham >> > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS >> > LPT [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Graham Bob...you may be as well to take a good look at another car before spending too much on your current one. Prices - particularly for private sales - are well down, and you could pick up an excellent car very reasonably. Service history is important as you know. We've just been through the changing vehicles business ourselves, and we hate it. Looked at chopping our '96 9000 2.3LPT in part exchange. Even against a relatively new car (not a Saab), the offers were very low, and looking online the private prices aren't too different. We've had the car for about 6 years. It had 70K on the clock when we bought it, and has just over 155K now, full dealer service history, usual CSE LPT toys, and offers were well below £1K. Autotrader has a '98 2.3 LPT automatic at £3492, and a bunch of others from about £1K upwards - but of course dealers have higher overheads and need to give a warranty of some sort. As we'd just had a big service and re-insured ours we decided to keep it for now alongside the newer motor. Decisions, decisions....! >>> OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT >>> with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Abbott will do this for a price. http://www.abbottracing.com/2003/index.htm As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's up to the 200 BHP or 230 BHP standard. The money Abbott (or whoever) charge for ECU upgrades leaves me thinking it would be worth buying a crashed Aero and swiping the box! Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's up > to the 200 BHP or 230 BHP standard. The money Abbott (or whoever) charge for > ECU upgrades leaves me thinking it would be worth buying a crashed Aero and > swiping the box! Sorry to be so ignorant but.. I have a work colleague who also has a 9000 LPT Saab. But his is a slightly younger model (M reg) and looking at his engine, he has this extra "thing" on the left hand side of his engine (as you stand looking at it with the bonnet open). Is that an intercooler?? He keeps saying his is a "proper" turbo, but he doesn't have the turbo boost gauge on his dashboard??????? cheers! >> As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were >> rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > turbo, but he doesn't have the turbo boost gauge on his dashboard??????? > cheers! It doesn't sound like an intercooler. On the 9000, the intercooler is about 2' wide, by 1.5' tall and sits in front of the radiator. If you follow the intake pipe down the engine bay, it will disappear out to the front of the car. The aircon compressor is on the LHS of the engine bay. Some also got an oil catch tank, but I can't remember whether that is on the left or right of the engine back ... Duh! Silly me ... I know what you're talking about ... The smaller "radiator" sited next to the main radiator? It's an oil cooler. Paul Vart tog vägen vägen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > turbo, but he doesn't have the turbo boost gauge on his dashboard??????? > cheers! Oil cooler. Graham > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > turbo, but he doesn't have the turbo boost gauge on his dashboard??????? > cheers! LPTs don't have the boost gauge. The idea being apparently that the turbo boost should be transparent. FPTs did. Simple really. Graham > > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > > > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > FPTs did. Ha! No gauge = LPT.. Thought so. I'll break it to him gently on Monday morning ;) > > > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They > were [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Ha! No gauge = LPT.. Thought so. I'll break it to him gently on Monday > morning ;) The good news is that insurance should be cheaper for an LPT. Graham >The good news is that insurance should be cheaper for an LPT. > >Graham And if you were to tweak it up to FPT... well you get all the fun of FPT at the same low cost :-) > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > turbo, but he doesn't have the turbo boost gauge on his dashboard??????? > cheers! LPT IS a proper turbo! Just take a look at the turbo under the bonnet. Yes, it has lower power than a FPT, but less turbo lag, lower insurance and generally nice to drive. I have a 1993 2.0 LPT; I'm not sure how it was described at the time, the log book states: SAAB 9000 CSE TURBO. > > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > > > rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > and generally nice to drive. I have a 1993 2.0 LPT; I'm not sure how it > was described at the time, the log book states: SAAB 9000 CSE TURBO. Hey Johannes! I know our LPT's are turbos. I just get the feeling that the "full fat" version might be even more fun to drive - have you ever tried the FPT? What did you think? > > > > As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They > were [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > version might be even more fun to drive - have you ever tried the FPT? What > did you think? No I haven't. My angle is that my 9000 is cheap reliable luxury transport, the car is well kept and looks the part. I drive 70 miles/day, so it is important to keep it going, not just for fun blasts (although it is tempting). > No I haven't. My angle is that my 9000 is cheap reliable luxury transport, > the car is well kept and looks the part. I drive 70 miles/day, so it is > important to keep it going, not just for fun blasts (although it is tempting). Totally agree. My 9000 has also done 70 miles a day for the last 3 years without complaint. If I get the FPT I don't think I would drive any faster. Sometimes it's just nice to know you could.. I'll let you know how the FPT compares when I get one. Unless I get tempted by a nice 900 convertible........ > > No I haven't. My angle is that my 9000 is cheap reliable luxury transport, > > the car is well kept and looks the part. I drive 70 miles/day, so it is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'll let you know how the FPT compares when I get one. Unless I get tempted > by a nice 900 convertible........ The best thing about this old 9000 is that it feels and looks special compared to modern Fords or VW which may be worth many times the value of my 9000, but the 9000 exudes an aura of quality in comparison. >Hey Johannes! >I know our LPT's are turbos. I just get the feeling that the "full fat" >version might be even more fun to drive - have you ever tried the FPT? What >did you think? All I can tell you is that I have a FPT that was lots of fun. Then I tweaked it a little to get 10-15 more HP and it was even more fun. >>>As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were >>>rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > and generally nice to drive. I have a 1993 2.0 LPT; I'm not sure how it > was described at the time, the log book states: SAAB 9000 CSE TURBO. LPT affects the insurance? That's odd, my insurance company doesn't even list whether my cars have a turbo or not, my policies just list the series of the car and whether it's gas or diesel. > >>>As an aside, some of the later model LPTs had an intercooler. They were > >>>rated to 170 BHP on the B234 engine variant. Just an ECU upgrade and it's [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > list whether my cars have a turbo or not, my policies just list the > series of the car and whether it's gas or diesel. UK insurance uses 'insurance groups' from 1 to 20. Typical figures ( individaul insurance companies may use different group ratings ) 9000 NA 12-14 9000 LPT 13-14 9000 FPT 14-15 9000 2.3 FPT 16-17 9000 Aero/Griffin 17 9000 Carlsson 17-18 Graham > > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT > > with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John I find my 1993 2.0 LPT is plenty fast. No turbo lag and probably last longer. > I find my 1993 2.0 LPT is plenty fast. No turbo lag and probably last longer. Really? Are the FPT engines unreliable? Or do you think the driver is more likely to "thrash" the FPT ?? >Really? Are the FPT engines unreliable? Or do you think the driver is more >likely to "thrash" the FPT ?? They are just as reliable. I have heard of tranny problems, both auto an manual, with some of the 230hp motors. > > I find my 1993 2.0 LPT is plenty fast. No turbo lag and probably last > longer. > > Really? Are the FPT engines unreliable? Or do you think the driver is more > likely to "thrash" the FPT ?? Probably the latter. Gearbox is a weak point. > > > I find my 1993 2.0 LPT is plenty fast. No turbo lag and probably last > > longer. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Probably the latter. Gearbox is a weak point. If you tune them heavily > 300 hp there is a problem that the pistons may melt. Graham Hello Bob, Regarding Ebay, I've bought 2 Saabs here in the U.S. The first was a 1995 900se I got from an investment broker in Virginia. It was well maintained and generally a good deal. The second was a 1999 9-5 from a used car dealer in Texas. It had been in a serious accident that did not show on Carfax and was not revealed by the seller. It also needed about $1500 in repairs when I bought it. So, it was not a good deal, although I'm stilll driving it 3 years later and it's running well. Make judgements based on who the seller is. Read the feedback on Ebay from other buyers, but if it's posittive don't trust it exclusively. Be wary, especially of small volume used car dealers. Ask lots of questions, look for detailed, conscientious answers, and if it smells at all fishy, throw it back. You can get great deals, but not everything that looks like a deal is great. > OK, so I've had my first Saab for 3 years now. A '92 dark green 9000CS LPT > with leather etc. I can't say she's ever let me down in a big way, but she's > beginning to show her age (160,000ml) and with the amazing value of these > cars in the UK I'm tempted to try the full pressure turbo version next. > So... > What I want is a *really* good example, in pristine condition that I can > keep, love and cherish for the next 5 years or so.. Black, tan leather, > 2.3litre, FPT / FSH @£2,500????? My mate just bought a pristine 9000 Anniversary (1998 MY) 2.3 LPT for just short of 3,000 UKP. I think that kind of money will get you a fully loaded 9000 Anni or Aero with all the toys and comforts. The Anniversary has nicer interior styling than the Aero, IMO, but an Aero is ... Well ... An Aero and they're always nice :) Look around eBay, Autotrader and some of the forum board classifieds. Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ > My mate just bought a pristine 9000 Anniversary (1998 MY) 2.3 LPT for just > short of 3,000 UKP. I think that kind of money will get you a fully loaded > 9000 Anni or Aero with all the toys and comforts. The Anniversary has nicer > interior styling than the Aero, IMO, but an Aero is ... Well ... An Aero and > they're always nice :) That's encouraging. But what does the Aero badge mean? Different seats / engine?? Also, any point keeping my current 2L LPT for "spares" if I get the 2/2.3L FPT???? >> My mate just bought a pristine 9000 Anniversary (1998 MY) 2.3 LPT for >> just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Also, any point keeping my current 2L LPT for "spares" if I get the 2/2.3L > FPT???? ....yes, different seats, altered suspension, and a bunch of other things. Plus dearer insurance of course :o) Quite a few Aeros seem to have auto boxes, and I was told by my dealer that the auto box is OK in the less powerful models, but can fail prematurely in Aero/Griffon if driven hard. The 2.3 LPT has 170bhp, while the Aero has 225 (I think). LPT has 0-60 time of around 8 secs, Aero around 6.5 - both on paper. For day-to-day driving I very much doubt you'd find the LPT models lacking. >> My mate just bought a pristine 9000 Anniversary (1998 MY) 2.3 LPT for just >> short of 3,000 UKP. I think that kind of money will get you a fully loaded [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That's encouraging. > But what does the Aero badge mean? Different seats / engine?? On the Aero, you get a sleek bodykit, Aero wheels (usually 16" deep dish rims on the late models) and leather seats, which have distinctive slashes: <http://www.norseperformance.com/Images/aeroseats.jpg> Now the Anniversary model gets the same bodykit, unique seats with the SAAB aeroplane logos embossed into the leather with suede flashes and "Anniversary" wheels. The dash fascia is walnut and the steering wheel has wooden sections. <http://www.saabtrader.co.uk/roadtest_07_01.htm> Engine configurations range from 2.0L 150 BHP LPT through 2.3L 225 BHP. IIRC, the Aero is either 225 BHP or 230 BHP from a B234. My mate's 170 BHP 2.3 LPT has an intercooler, so it's all ready for a re-map. I said, I preferred the Anni interior to the Aero, but that's your perogative. The exterior is almost the same as the Aero, but for the wheels. Drop some Super Aero wheels onto it and you've got the best of both worlds, IMO. <http://jpowell.tripod.com/saab-wheels/newgen/saab-alloy-ng_super_aero.jpg> While the Anniversary does not mark itself out with any badge, sticker or other livery, the Aero does say "Aero" on the back, which is always cool :) The gallery at SAAB 9000.com has some great pictures. <http://www.saab9000.com/gallery/index.php> The guys who runs that site has a 300 BHP Aero which pulls a 5 second 0-60! There's a great track video on't net somewhere of him seeing off some Ferrari and then a Carrera on the straights. > Also, any point keeping my current 2L LPT for "spares" if I get the 2/2.3L > FPT???? There are loads of interchangeable parts, but personally, I would sell the old car on (let someone else enjoy it ... It sounds like a good 'un) and get any parts as and when necessary from scrap yards or the plethora of SAAB parts peddlers. Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ Thanks Paul and everyone else for all the info. I know a lot more about what to look for now. I'll keep an eye on Ebay & autotrader over the next couple of months. When I see the right one I guess I'll just know ;) Thanks Again > Thanks Paul and everyone else for all the info. > I know a lot more about what to look for now. > I'll keep an eye on Ebay & autotrader over the next couple of months. When I > see the right one I guess I'll just know ;) These people have a good reputation and always seem to sell nice cars: <http://www.hagstromsaab.co.uk/carsForSale.asp> Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ > These people have a good reputation and always seem to sell nice cars: > <http://www.hagstromsaab.co.uk/carsForSale.asp> Oh my God.. they've got some great looking cars. That green 900 convertible looks nice ;) Aaarghh!!!!!!!!!! >> These people have a good reputation and always seem to sell nice cars: >> <http://www.hagstromsaab.co.uk/carsForSale.asp> > > Oh my God.. they've got some great looking cars. > That green 900 convertible looks nice ;) > Aaarghh!!!!!!!!!! I've been tempted a couple of times recently to the point of ringing up. Luckily (for my wallet's sake), the cars in question had been snapped up ... They had a really nice looking C900 Anniversary and a near pristine T8 Special in. If the 9000 Aero/Anni idea doesn't work out, a late model C900 convertible is a very smart purchase. Expect to pay from 3k through, say, 8K if you want a top notch car with all the toys, working and full leather, bodykit, etc. It's a good investment (in cash terms) if you can keep up to it, whereas a late 9000 is (well, also) a good investment as a car that will keep on running. Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ > >> My mate just bought a pristine 9000 Anniversary (1998 MY) 2.3 LPT for just > >> short of 3,000 UKP. I think that kind of money will get you a fully loaded [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > IIRC, the Aero is either 225 BHP or 230 BHP from a B234. My mate's 170 BHP > 2.3 LPT has an intercooler, so it's all ready for a re-map. Automatic Aeros only got 200bhp. I didn't realise there was a 230bhp Aero, what configuration was that? SignatureRichard Sutherland-Smith 19 Webb Road, Wanganui 5001, NZ 1996 9000 Aero
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