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Car Forum / Saab Cars / November 2006Saab 99 engine ticking
I need a little diagnosis advice before I start pulling pieces off. I left my sweet little '77 99 for about 10 months overwintering in the high desert. When I got back to it, the engine was siezed solid and it took a lot of PB Blaster, time, ATF, and more time to free up the pistons. Once broken free, she fired right up and has run well ever since except - a few days after getting her running, a new ticking noise developed in the engine. At speed, it's a whirring chatter but at idle, a distinct tock-tink!-tock-tink!-tock-tink!. *Sometimes* it seems to go away or get less loud for a bit but it's pretty consistent. It really sounds like it's coming from the head, not the lower half (hope hope hope). I would swear it was a bent pushrod if there were such a beast in my baby. I'm not familiar enough with this engine to know what exactly to look for, and I'd love some advice and maybe any ideas of how to further diagnose the sound. A lifter, maybe? thanks, everyone, in advance for any advice you can contribute! Elijah Sticking valve and or valve lifter. I recommend you change your oil to Valvoline single weight 30. I have had this problem also with my 85 900S and Valvoline will solve the problem. Other oils will not do it. >Sticking valve and or valve lifter. I recommend you change your oil to >Valvoline single weight 30. I have had this problem also with my 85 >900S and Valvoline will solve the problem. Other oils will not do it. That sounds really similar to the problem with the engine on my 83 900 non-APC turbo car. I've already done an oil change on it to replace the old oil with brand new Shell Helix Ultra. Posted about it in the saablink.net and classicsaab.net forums. However I'm suspecting a stretched timing chain might be the culprit and am contemplating swapping the cylinder head off my 83 Gli (non-turbo) donor car with the one in the turbo car but I've heard the specs are different between turbo and non-turbo heads on the 'H' engines. There's a broken exhaust manifold stud on the turbo car's cylinder head, so that's what's got me thinking about a swap. Don't have tools to remove and replace broken studs at present. The tick-tick sound definitely only seems to be coming from one end of the engine, but doesn't appear to occur at anything above ideal so perhaps it may mean an oil pump problem resulting in, at idle at least, a low oil flow to the front-facing end of the engine. What's other people's view about that theory? The engine hasn't given problems when I have actually test-driven the car on the road near my house previously, but it does have a small oil leak which gives plenty of smoke from under the engine after it heats up. Seems like a combination of lots of little things. Craig.  SignatureCraig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide! Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc. You have to at least remove the top cover and have a look. Turn the engine over slowly and inspect the full length of the timing chain - I've seen them break on those models, and they start making "loose change" noises before they do. The adjustment mechanism on the same chain can also make noises. >I left my sweet little '77 99 for about 10 months overwintering in the >high desert. When I got back to it, the engine was siezed solid and it >took a lot of PB Blaster, time, ATF, and more time to free up the >pistons. Once broken free, she fired right up and has run well ever >since except - What's "ATF" ? "All transferrable Funds?" That was a characteristic of these otherwise very addictive models as well. GF [snip] >>I left my sweet little '77 99 for about 10 months overwintering in the >>high desert. When I got back to it, the engine was siezed solid and it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That was a characteristic of these otherwise very addictive models as >well. I'm guessing at "Automatic Transmission Fluid". The one that's got me foxed is "PB Blaster"... Cheers, Colin. >You have to at least remove the top cover and have a look. >Turn the engine over slowly and inspect the full length of the timing >chain - I've seen them break on those models, and they start making >"loose change" noises before they do. The adjustment mechanism on the >same chain can also make noises. >>I left my sweet little '77 99 for about 10 months overwintering in the >>high desert. When I got back to it, the engine was siezed solid and it >>took a lot of PB Blaster, time, ATF, and more time to free up the >>pistons. Once broken free, she fired right up and has run well ever >>since except - >What's "ATF" ? "All transferrable Funds?" >That was a characteristic of these otherwise very addictive models as >well. He he - Automatic transmission fluid. 8-) Craig. SignatureCraig's Saab C900 Page at | Craig's Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL's Email: c900@lios.apana.org.au | For Saab 99/C900/9000 Enthusiasts World-Wide! Alternate: saabonaut@gmail.com | Web-forums, galleries, library, links, etc. thanks, everyone, for all the ideas. After my #3 cylinder stopped firing (and the noise stopped) I opened the valve cover to find that the camshaft bearing housing has exploded upwards right around the #3 tappets. The intake tappet was in little pieces. I had to drive it 13 miles home like that! That little engine is indestructable. So, now I'm in the market for either 1) the camshaft bearing housing or 2) a whole new head. Can anyone advise on where to find the first? Or, does anyone know what other saab years / models have interchangable heads with this one ('77 99 non-turbo)? I'm out in the middle of Nevada with minimal options right now... thanks! Elijah > So, now I'm in the market for either 1) the camshaft bearing housing or > 2) a whole new head. Can anyone advise on where to find the first? You mean the tappet carrier, long 2" wide thing that the tappets go in that the camshaft journals are part of? If you're in the US, let's talk, I've got one. > Or, does anyone know what other saab years / models have interchangable > heads with this one ('77 99 non-turbo)? I'm out in the middle of > Nevada with minimal options right now... I can't see this being a big deal. If you want to come up with a token payment that covers shipping and hassle, I'll send you one. It's not perfect but it's servicable. Hi folks; I've been working with Dave on this problem and I've got some pics up at http://guests.duck-creek.net/elijah/ you can see the #3 cylinder's intake tappet doesn't exist. The question is - what happened here? This engine was siezed and made to run again with various penetrants and detergents. Did that strain the camshaft until the tappet blew out the side? all thories welcome! Elijah > > So, now I'm in the market for either 1) the camshaft bearing housing or > > 2) a whole new head. Can anyone advise on where to find the first? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > payment that covers shipping and hassle, I'll send you one. It's not > perfect but it's servicable. I'll have a go! Looking at the pictures, it would certainly seem that the tappet failed in some manner and pieces of it were driven through the side of the cam-carrier by the rotation of the cam lobe..? Is there none of the tappet at all left in the bore of the cam-carrier? Having recently rebuilt the head on my '78t, I'm at a bit of a loss to explain the tappet failure - they are fairly substantial, and not especially loaded other than the bearing surface between the cam lobe and the shim. Is it possible that the valve was stuck as part of the engine seizure and when the engine finally turned it placed a massive loading through the bearing face of that tappet causing it to crack and ultimately leading to its catastophic failure??? Better explanations may well become apparent as you strip it further... Lateral compression on cam follower forced it out through the side of follower cylinder. I am curious to know what oil was in the engine during the storage period? >Lateral compression on cam follower forced it out through the side of >follower cylinder. > >I am curious to know what oil was in the engine during the storage >period? Whatcha betting it was multiviscosity? SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com why would multiviscosity oil do this? to finalize the saga - I was sent a replacement part by one of the angels on this group and replaced in a few hours. There was wear on the cam lobe in question so there's still a little "ticking" but it runs like normal. the valve did *not* appear bent. good stuff. Thanks everyone! > >Lateral compression on cam follower forced it out through the side of > >follower cylinder. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest > Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com > I'll have a go! Looking at the pictures, it would certainly seem that the > tappet failed in some manner and pieces of it were driven through the side > of the cam-carrier by the rotation of the cam lobe..? Is there none of the > tappet at all left in the bore of the cam-carrier? I'm betting there's part of the shell of the cylindrical part still in there. > Having recently rebuilt the head on my '78t, I'm at a bit of a loss to > explain the tappet failure - they are fairly substantial, and not especially [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > face of that tappet causing it to crack and ultimately leading to its > catastophic failure??? That's the thing. I'm trying to come up witha credible side-load force scenario. Unless the valve stuck, came lobe made the tappit _tilt_ in the housing, breaking it? Which way does the cam rotate on that when the engine is running? > Better explanations may well become apparent as you strip it further... I wonder if he's got a bent valve. > a few days after getting her running, a new ticking noise developed in > the engine. At speed, it's a whirring chatter but at idle, a distinct > tock-tink!-tock-tink!-tock-tink!. *Sometimes* it seems to go away or > get less loud for a bit but it's pretty consistent. It really sounds > like it's coming from the head, not the lower half (hope hope hope). 99Ts and C900s develop a ticking noise over time when the exhaust manifold cracks. Often between cylinders 2 & 3, a short but noticeable crack will emerge which produces a ticking/spitting noise. It should be visible from underneath the car. It is often not noticeable when cold, but starts up as the car warms up. If yours is not a turbo then it might not be that, but I have heard badly fitted exhaust manifolds, incorrectly torqued bolts or an ill-fitting gasket can lead to the same noise. HTH, Paul 1989 900 Turbo S http://saab.go.dyndns.org/ |
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