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Car Forum / Saab Cars / February 2007

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Tossed a belt...

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JohnO - 07 Feb 2007 21:56 GMT
Just got a call from my son, from what I gather over the phone his '94
900 just tossed its serpentine belt.

He says the belt is pretty weell cracked on the inside, but what are
the chances the water pump or something else caused this? Is there a
typical failure in play here, or (hopefully) just an old bad belt?

And, is this something I can replace myself with basic tools?

-John O
Fred W - 08 Feb 2007 00:57 GMT
> Just got a call from my son, from what I gather over the phone his '94
> 900 just tossed its serpentine belt.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -John O

There is a very good chance that the reason it threw the belt was the
idler pully.  These seem to fail more often than belts.  Have him spin
each of the pulleys and feel for one that is bound/binding.  If bad, a
new belt will be tossed just as quickly.

Signature

-Fred W

JohnO - 08 Feb 2007 13:22 GMT
> > Just got a call from my son, from what I gather over the phone his '94
> > 900 just tossed its serpentine belt.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> --
> -Fred W

Yep, the small one is bad. Just to be sure...the bad pulley is the
small grooved one. The smooth pulleys seem to be fine. All I need is
the small one, right?

I'm digging around for some online instructions, having never replaced
one of these before. It seems to be simple enough...once I figure out
the belt pattern. I'm looking here: http://www.thesaabsite.com/900new/
NG900beltsandpulleys.htm  Our car's pulleys don't match the 4...we
have the AC compressor in there. (The instrux linked from there are
incomplete...what's the point of the block of wood and all that?)

I also found this: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55452
which is going to take me longer to read and comprehend than it took
this guy to do. :-)  Seems like he loosened everything, rather than
just a tensioner.

-John O
Fred W - 08 Feb 2007 13:48 GMT
> Yep, the small one is bad. Just to be sure...the bad pulley is the
> small grooved one. The smooth pulleys seem to be fine. All I need is
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> -John O

John,

Yes, the upper left grooved idler pulley is the one that tends to go.

Here's an official SAAB document that shows the belt routing.
http://townsendimports.com/Web/engine_folder/ng900beltsc405.htm

Also, here's one from the place where I do all of my online parts
purchasing:
http://www.eeuroparts.com/searchresults.aspx?&carid=1072&cat=1004

eEuroparts is almost always the cheapest and has been extremely reliable
and fast at shipping.

There is no need for a wood block.  Once you flex the tensioner assembly
(with a long 1/2" socket extension or a breaker bar turned sideways)
there are two holes that will line up that allow you to stick a drill
bit or allen wrench thru them to hold it in the "cocked" position.

Signature

-Fred W

- Bob - - 08 Feb 2007 14:05 GMT
>I'm digging around for some online instructions, having never replaced
>one of these before. It seems to be simple enough...once I figure out
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>this guy to do. :-)  Seems like he loosened everything, rather than
>just a tensioner.

This is a really easy job.

First, here's a page with the belt route - stock is the diagram on the
LEFT: http://pages.infinit.net/mlbriand/saab/shortbelt/page1.html 

The upper idler pulley that goes bad is the one shown at the top
integrated with the tensioner. The break up after 50K miles - so next
time replace it around 45K. It *is* worth checking the other pulleys
for play as the water pumps in these wear and occasionally an A/C
compressor goes. It is also possible that the lower idler pulley is
bad (center of engine, bottom of left photo) but generally they last
quite a while. To check the pulleys/accessories, just rock them with
your hands. You'll be able to feel significant play in anything bad.

(Lots of us do the "short belt mod" shown on the right, I'll get back
to that).

The instructions are the same for short or long (stock) belts. Click
through the photos. Loosen the tension on the belt using a 1/2" drive
as shown to pull the tensioner forward and lock it into place with a
drill bit or thin screwdriver in the "lock it"  hole. Unbolt the upper
pulley, replace that pulley, pull the belt around the other pulleys
and accessories in the proper route.

You may or may not have the Mass Air Valve shown depending on your
motor but pull out the air filter box to get some room to work either
way. You should remove the plastic cover behind the front right wheel
(no need to remove wheel unless you want to, just turn it hard right).
The only reason you need to remove the cover is that it is hard to get
the belt around the crankshaft pulley without doing it. It's still
tight/annoying getting the belt down there but stick with it, it can
be done.

Once you get the belt right and the upper pulley replaced, just pull
the tensioner forward with the 1/2" drive again to remove the tension
from your "lock" bit, pull the bit out, and release the tensioner into
position.

The first time you do this job it will probably take you an hour but
the second time you can do it in 15 mins.

Las, but not least, many of us do the "short belt mod". In later
years, Saab eliminated the center pulley (lower idler pulley) on the
motor and used a shorter belt. Since the center pulley is a RPITA to
replace, many owners of the earlier design just go to the belt
mentioned at this web site. That eliminates one point of failure and
saves time and money. (Yes, it is a safe mod, many many guys who drive
their motors hard have done it and it works fine.)
JohnO - 08 Feb 2007 15:15 GMT
> >I'm digging around for some online instructions, having never replaced
> >one of these before. It seems to be simple enough...once I figure out
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> saves time and money. (Yes, it is a safe mod, many many guys who drive
> their motors hard have done it and it works fine.)

Excellent!

Thanks Fred and Bob, these instrux are much better than what I found
myself. Even *I* can follow those photos. ;-) Glad you added that last
part about the belt mod...just looking at the diagrams it seems the
only mechanical difference is the amount of grab on the PS pump
pulley. But if Saab does it, it must be fine.

Local parts place had the original belt, but the idler pulley is on
order. Glad this isn't a huge job with the weather we're having.

-John O
Joe Morris - 09 Feb 2007 21:58 GMT
>First, here's a page with the belt route - stock is the diagram on the
>LEFT: http://pages.infinit.net/mlbriand/saab/shortbelt/page1.html 

FWIW -- several years ago the tension idler on my 97 900 failed -- the
entire bearing assembly crumbled -- at night, in January, in the mountains
of east Tennessee.  (And just past the 50K miles point...)

I was (barely) able to get off the interstate into the parking lot
of a truck tire repair shop and (skipping much detail) later got
a ride into Knoxville (~70 miles away) and back to buy a new idler
and belt.  The reason for this note is that I got the dealer there
to print out the manual page showing the belt route -- and it
didn't look anything like what I had to install.  A little experimentation
and lots of cusswords helped me reverse-engineer the path.

>The upper idler pulley that goes bad is the one shown at the top
>integrated with the tensioner. The break up after 50K miles - so next
>time replace it around 45K.

In my case the idler was completely broken; the actual pulley had
nothing to connect it to the mounting bolt.  Also (and something I've
not seen noted in this thread) the inner (grooved) surface of the
belt was melted, and had deposited its excreta into the grooves on
the other pulleys.  I suspect that the idler seized, then failed
catastrophically.  If the OP's belt shows this, check the grooved
pulleys for contamination and carefully pry out enough of the mess
to ensure that the belt gets a good grip on each pulley.

And especially if the replacement is being done outside a garage,
it's worth making sure that you have a long rod (such as an old
chicken band antenna) to push the (stiff) belt where it needs
to go.

One side note: Last time I looked at a new Saab engine (in the showroom,
waiting for a repair) the serpentine belt was buried under lots of
engine-compartment devices.  I asked the service people about it; they
agreed that it was a major pain for them (in the shop!) to replace
the belt, and (IIRC) carried a flat-rate charge of two hours.

(No, I don't recall the model involved.)

Joe Morris
- Bob - - 10 Feb 2007 00:23 GMT
>FWIW -- several years ago the tension idler on my 97 900 failed -- the
>entire bearing assembly crumbled -- at night, in January, in the mountains
>of east Tennessee.  (And just past the 50K miles point...)

I tell everyone to replace them at 45K... not everyone gets my advice
early enough though...

:-)
JohnO - 10 Feb 2007 13:39 GMT
> >First, here's a page with the belt route - stock is the diagram on the
> >LEFT:http://pages.infinit.net/mlbriand/saab/shortbelt/page1.html
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Joe Morris

Good point on the crud in the grooves of the other pulleys...I saw
that when we removed the old belt and obviously it has to come out.
I'm not much of a mechanic and don't have a lot of tools, so this job
gave me an excuse to buy a breaker bar. Looks like it'll come in handy
for two tasks.

Hopefully the pulley comes in today and then we'll have the new belt
on right away. Bob, I'm going to trust my luck on the
tensioner...car's at 115k miles, and I have no idea what's been done
previously. Call me crazy if you must. :-)

-John O
JohnO - 11 Feb 2007 15:51 GMT
> >First, here's a page with the belt route - stock is the diagram on the
> >LEFT:http://pages.infinit.net/mlbriand/saab/shortbelt/page1.html
>
> FWIW -- several years ago the tension idler on my 97 900 failed -- the
> entire bearing assembly crumbled -- at night, in January, in the mountains
> of east Tennessee.  (And just past the 50K miles point...)

Just to close this chapter...the hole used to loosen the tensioner was
already broken when we got in there. After playing around and thinking
all night about how we were going to loosen that bugger without
calling in a pro...I tried a pipe wrench around the tensioner body. It
worked. I had to loosen the body cross bar to turn it far enough to
get a pin in the two tensioner holes to hold it loose.

I still couldn't get the belt on...it's like 10 degrees here...but we
worked in on while turning over the engine a short crank at a time.
Let's see how long this one lasts.

-John O
 
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