EBC red pads - too tick

EBC red pads - too tick - 93 viggen

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pzi - 04 Apr 2007 16:17 GMT

I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
too tick and there is not enough clearance for the rotors.
Any ideas on how to gain some room between the pads? I drove for some
50 miles and the wear is not helping.
I am thinking about shaving some material from the outside of the pad
- or maybe take the pad to the grinder and taking some of the pad
contact surface.

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- Bob - - 04 Apr 2007 21:06 GMT

>I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
>viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>- or maybe take the pad to the grinder and taking some of the pad
>contact surface.

I doubt they are too thick. The clearance required is minuscule. They
should have worn in already.

What do you mean by noise? Squeal or rough surface kind of noise?

I'd be more suspicious that the ceramic (hard) pads are causing the
noise - unless the rotors are not solid, in which case they could be
helping with the noise.

Before tossing them, read this, learn, try the break in method
suggested. The article is more about "warping" but what you will learn
by reading it may be very helpful in understanding what is going on
with your pads and rotors. Works wonders with some cars. Be safe,
don't do this on public roads:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

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pzi - 05 Apr 2007 16:52 GMT

> >I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
> >viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> don't do this on public roads:
> http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

Thanks for the link - lots of good information! In this particular
case the rotors are new from the same brand so no warping is likely.
The noise is friction noise like the pads are touching the rotors. I
read the EBC installation instructions and ran the car to say 40mph
and gently slowed down the car for about 10 times - the imbeding did
not happen or happened but did not help. The noise is stronger when I
turn the wheels - I guess because of the hubs having some play and
drive shafts pushing the rotors a bit.

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Charles C. - 05 Apr 2007 23:24 GMT

>>> I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
>>> viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> case the rotors are new from the same brand so no warping is likely.
> The noise is friction noise like the pads are touching the rotors.

Yes it is. See below.
I

> read the EBC installation instructions and ran the car to say 40mph
> and gently slowed down the car for about 10 times - the imbeding did
> not happen or happened but did not help. The noise is stronger when I
> turn the wheels - I guess because of the hubs having some play and

Correct. So the rotors move in relation to the pads hence they touch more.

> drive shafts pushing the rotors a bit.

No the drive shafts have sufficient play not to push anything towards
the hub of towards the gear box.

How many miles has the car done? The movement you describe above would
be caused by a worn wheel bearing or a loose drive shaft nut (ehmmm, I
think). In which case the rotor is never in the position it should have
been hence the noise.

If the car is new ... the other possibility (which is the easier one to
solve) is that the rotor and pads when combined are slightly too thick.
I have had pads (Lucas) which I could not fit in my C900 when brand new
but I could fit any other set of brand new pads.

If it helps a little.

Regards
Charles

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Colin Stamp - 04 Apr 2007 22:56 GMT

Assuming this isn't a troll, do not try to modify anything yourself.
No offence, but you fundamentally don't understand how disk brakes are
meant to work. Considering how safety critical brakes are, you might
want to get a trusted mechanic to look at them.

There should be virtually no clearance between the pads,disks and
pistons at any time. Even if you reduce the thickness of the pads
(which is pretty-much impossible to do safely without the right gear
and knowledge) all that will happen is that the pistons will extend to
fill the gap you've just made.

What kind of noise are they making?

Cheers,

Colin.

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pzi - 05 Apr 2007 17:42 GMT

> >I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
> >viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Colin.

what is happening is that with the pistons completely retracted the
pads touch rotors and make friction noise.
I agree the breaks are critical for safety but so is the rest of the
car - say the wheels fall off :-)

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Colin Stamp - 05 Apr 2007 18:31 GMT

>> >I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
>> >viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>what is happening is that with the pistons completely retracted the
>pads touch rotors and make friction noise.

It's normal for the pads to touch the disks all the time, as long as
the brakes aren't actually binding.
There's nothing to pull them away when the brakes are released. The
system can only push, not pull.

The extra noise may be because of the redstuff pads. One tradeoff you
get with "high performance" pads is extra noise. Normal OE pads just
make a faint hissing noise as they drag against the disks.

You mentioned the size of the new disks in your original post. Does
that mean they're larger than standard? If they are, their edges could
be scraping on the calipers.

>I agree the breaks are critical for safety but so is the rest of the
>car - say the wheels fall off :-)

But you weren't talking about grinding any bits off your wheel bolts
though. For the sake of completeness, don't do that either ;o)

Cheers,

Colin.

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Charles C. - 05 Apr 2007 23:36 GMT

>>> I got new EBC front 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
>>> viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> I agree the breaks are critical for safety but so is the rest of the
> car - say the wheels fall off :-)

As Colin said. Pads always touch ... If they are binding ... then do 2
or 3 miles without braking and the rotors will be *hot*. Too hot to touch.

Have you used coper paste between the pads/the pistons/the caliper?

Most likely you have a very simple problem and you should not modify
anything the way you were suggesting. If you were to remove friction
material from the pad (you may have to do that if your brakes run *hot*)
you have to keep the pad perfectly flat. Else you will get a smaller
surface of the pad touching the rotor, the rotor will be damaged and
braking performance will be much worse.

One way of reducing the thickness of the new pads (I will be killed now)
would be to use one old and one new pad on each side of the rotor for a
few miles, and at some point try replacing the old with the new pads.
This is how I used the Lucas pads I mentioned in my other post.

I got the fire extinguisher ready.

:-)

Charles

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pzi - 06 Apr 2007 17:53 GMT

On Apr 5, 4:36 pm, "Charles C."
<c.k.christacopoulos.remove...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> >>> I got newEBCfront 12.1 inch rotors and red ceramic pads for my '02
> >>> viggen. Installed them and they make a lot of noise. They seem a bit
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> --
> Please remove _removeme_ to reply.

I had my saab on the lift for a few days to fix the leak around the
timing cover (dropped the engine and dismantled the suspension) and
after I put the breaks back together the friction noise disappeared. I
wonder if me touching the rotors with a bit oily gloves had something
to do with it...
No I did not use any copper paste.

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- Bob - - 10 Apr 2007 15:22 GMT

>I had my saab on the lift for a few days to fix the leak around the
>timing cover (dropped the engine and dismantled the suspension) and
>after I put the breaks back together the friction noise disappeared. I
>wonder if me touching the rotors with a bit oily gloves had something
>to do with it...
>No I did not use any copper paste.

FYI - I pointed you at that article so that you could learn something
about the depositing of pad material on the rotors, not warping per
se. This is a necessary step with some types of pad material - you
have to get an even coat of it on the rotors before they work
properly. Racers know this well and as you move to higher performance
pads you have to learn about it.

Also, those stops have to be hard - just short of lockup - stops from
about 55-60mph. If you do it right, the rotors turn blue. Watch out
for brake fade and don't do it where there is traffic. A lonely road
with a high speed limit and no traffic on Sunday morning at 6AM is
usually best.

Good to hear that it is working better.

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