 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Saab Cars / October 2007Timing Chain failure at 46k miles
My 900 is 9 years old but only has 46k miles on the clock as it is used mainly for very short trips. Last week, after an eight mile trip, I thought there was a JCB on my tail until I realised the noise was coming from my engine. We live near a construction site and at first I thought the noise was coming from there - a bit like a digger's bucket scraping the ground. This morning, on start-up, the engine was quite noisy, a bit like the sound you get from loose tappets, and it seemed to need a bit of extra revving to pull away. After about two miles, it cut out. It would only restart by revving it a good bit and cut out again after about 200 yards. I was close to a small garage and the mechanics came out and had a look and told me to bring it in, which took a considerable amount of revving. They said they woul have a look at it and call me after lunch. About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, I'd be back to them again in 3 weeks. The quote was €1700 (€700 parts, €700 labour, €300 VAT) because it required removal of the engine, taking off the head and sump, etc. My question is, if the car would run when revved up, how could the timing chain be broken? And, if it does need replacement, does this require the removal of the engine, head, and sump? I am not a DIY type but I am suspicious, and a bit pissed off at the idea of having to pay €1700 for repairs to a car with such low mileage. (Especially as I don't have that kind of money) Any advice would be appreciated. A very grumpy Mike > About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain > had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, > I'd be back to them again in 3 weeks. The quote was €1700 (€700 > parts, €700 labour, €300 VAT) because it required removal of the > engine, taking off the head and sump, etc. £700 parts sounds high. A complete OEM chain kit would be less than £200 from a specialist supplier. http://www.partsforsaabs.com/product_info.php?products_id=2671 OTOH, that may well include other bits - it'd be daft not to put a new clutch in whilst the engine's out the car. Various other parts are also FAR easier to get at, so the cost of the part now is small compared to the cost of repeating the labour later. > My question is, if the car would run when revved up, how could the > timing chain be broken? "Broken" could well be being used as a non-technical euphemism for "fooked" to cover a multitude of sins. It's quite possible that it's stretched or the tensioner's broken, or it's in the throes of links actually breaking but hasn't yet completely separated. > And, if it does need replacement, does this require the removal of the > engine, head, and sump? The chain can be replaced in situ, but to replace the sprockets, guides and tensioners does - I believe - require removal. > I am not a DIY type but I am suspicious, and a bit pissed off at the > idea of having to pay €1700 for repairs to a car with such low > mileage. (Especially as I don't have that kind of money) Never mind the mileage, it's a 10yo car. Lots of short trips is the worst kind of mileage you can do - I'd far rather have a 150k mile car that's clocked that up on long runs than a 50k one that's rarely got properly warm. No, 8 miles isn't enough to do that. > > About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain > > had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > £700 parts sounds high. It may have been Euros. I suspect he's in Eire. Graham >> > About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain >> > had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, >> > I'd be back to them again in 3 weeks. The quote was €1700 (€700 >> > parts, €700 labour, €300 VAT) because it required removal of the >> > engine, taking off the head and sump, etc. >> £700 parts sounds high. > It may have been Euros. I suspect he's in Eire. Ah. Still sounds high, but knowing dealer parts prices... > >> > About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain > >> > had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ah. Still sounds high, but knowing dealer parts prices... Thanks Adrian, As Eeyore suspected. I am in Ireland and the price was in euros. However, even when I convert the price given at PartsForSaab and add carriage, it comes to Eu275 versus the Eu700 I was quoted. Kinda makes me wary of their matching quote of Eu700 for labour. I take your point about lots of short journeys being punishing on a car and I would fully expect problems with exhaust, etc. but I wouldn't have thought that it would have much impact on the timing chain. Then again, perhaps a 1000 journey of 8 miles means 1000 starts from cold with poor initial oil circulation, whereas 100 journeys of 80 miles would mean that there was excellent oil circulation for a much higher percentage of the miles travelled. Thanks again Mike >>>>> About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain >>>>> had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Thanks again > Mike The tensioner is probably gone. See the parts you price include a new tensioner and all the sprockets. Perhaps it has gone because of age, luck of lubrication ... whatever. The reason you needed to rev it a lot is probably because the timing was out or ... WARNING! It may have bend valves, if not worse, smacked pistons. Your 1700 euro cost could be a lot higher. Like they fix the chain to find the engine is still not running. Charles :-|  SignaturePlease remove _removeme_ to reply. >> About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain >> had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, >> I'd be back to them again in 3 weeks. The quote was â¬1700 (â¬700 >> parts, â¬700 labour, â¬300 VAT) because it required removal of the >> engine, taking off the head and sump, etc. > £700 parts sounds high. A complete OEM chain kit would be less than £200 > from a specialist supplier. > http://www.partsforsaabs.com/product_info.php?products_id=2671 > OTOH, that may well include other bits - it'd be daft not to put a new > clutch in whilst the engine's out the car. Various other parts are also > FAR easier to get at, so the cost of the part now is small compared to > the cost of repeating the labour later. >> My question is, if the car would run when revved up, how could the >> timing chain be broken? > "Broken" could well be being used as a non-technical euphemism for > "fooked" to cover a multitude of sins. It's quite possible that it's > stretched or the tensioner's broken, or it's in the throes of links > actually breaking but hasn't yet completely separated. >> And, if it does need replacement, does this require the removal of the >> engine, head, and sump? > The chain can be replaced in situ, but to replace the sprockets, guides > and tensioners does - I believe - require removal. I have done a 9000 Aero timing chain and balance shaft chain and guides from the side, by taking the wheel and liner out. SignatureRichard & Mary Sutherland-Smith 19 Webb Road, Wanganui 4500, NZ > >> About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain > >> had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I have done a 9000 Aero timing chain and balance shaft chain and > guides from the side, by taking the wheel and liner out. How long time did that take? AFAIK, timing chain replacement is a labour intensive job, hence high garage prices. On the other hand, the timing chain should last over 100k. I say "over" because there is no particular replacement mileage, as there are for engines with rubber band timing belts. >> I have done a 9000 Aero timing chain and balance shaft chain and >> guides from the side, by taking the wheel and liner out. > How long time did that take? AFAIK, timing chain replacement is a > labour intensive job, hence high garage prices. It is if you have to pull the engine & box. It isn't if you can go through the arch. > On the other hand, the timing chain should last over 100k. I say > "over" because there is no particular replacement mileage, as there > are for engines with rubber band timing belts. Largely because, whilst belts go ping expensively with no warning, chains give you PLENTY of loud notice that they're dying. >>>> About an hour later they called and said that the timing chain >>>> had broken. They said that unles I replaced a bunch of other parts, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> I have done a 9000 Aero timing chain and balance shaft chain and >> guides from the side, by taking the wheel and liner out. > How long time did that take? AFAIK, timing chain replacement is a > labour intensive job, hence high garage prices. On the other hand, > the timing chain should last over 100k. I say "over" because there > is no particular replacement mileage, as there are for engines with > rubber band timing belts. Two of us took a gentle weekend, but he then did up the starter and alternator refurbished while we were in there. No real problems, just followed the SAAB manuals. SignatureRichard & Mary Sutherland-Smith 19 Webb Road, Wanganui 4500, NZ >I am not a DIY type but I am suspicious, and a bit pissed off at the >idea of having to pay 1700 for repairs to a car with such low [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >A very grumpy Mike VGM: Short trips like you describe are about the worst thing you can do to an engine short of pouring sand in the oil fill. The second worse thing you can do is rev the hell out it to get it to go when you know there is a problem. The timing belt isn't broken in two, it has failed in a manner that let it slip. One of the tensioner's was probably the root of the problem but at this point it all has to be redone. I would get a list of exactly what parts they intend to replace and what they intend to do while they have the engine apart. Pulling the oil pan is a good idea as shrapnel from whatever failed fell down in there plus it is always a good idea to clean out the pan and oil pickup screen. I don't understand why they are pulling the head off unless they know / suspect you have valve train damage. Can't comment on pricing as I'm not in your country. Steve B. >> I am not a DIY type but I am suspicious, and a bit pissed off at the >> idea of having to pay €1700 for repairs to a car with such low [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > don't understand why they are pulling the head off unless they know / > suspect you have valve train damage. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In which case it might not be too expensive, and there are additional part costs like headgaskets etc. > Can't comment on pricing as I'm not in your country. > > Steve B. SignaturePlease remove _removeme_ to reply. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.