I realise I've replied to a reply, I missed (or did the first responder
cross post the answer?) the first post, so I've done the next best
thing. I'm in aus.cars

does it _have_ to be lpg injected? Being that lpg is gaseous, the mixer
style setups (well asuming you get something decent, and not some of the
really cheap sh.t) work well and accomplish great mixture distribution
as is. I'm not saying they are superior to lpg injection, but the gap is
smaller than that for petrol gear (at least if we are still talking
about decent lpg gear - some of the impco stuff, the ohg, if you can get
it, and the Aus made GRA mixers).

Similarly the main reason people convert to lpg (despite it's
considerable popularity on drag cars in Australia, relative to most
anywhere else) is naturally enough for fuel savings, and frankly such
can be had with the feedback style mixer/simple converter combos (such
as perhaps an impco 200 and model L convertor for a 2 litre or so
engine). The feedback processor, and a stepper in the gas feed (or
inbetween a vac line going to the convertor diaphragm, when combined
with a mixer with a deliberately rich air valve, will modulate the
effective signal the convertor sees and with it, the a/f ratio, and they
work very well.

I haven't priced the injection gear recently, but it'd have to come down
in price somewhat imho, to get them to anything like value for money for
most users. you have to carefully calculate the miles done per year, and
allow for approx 10% more lpg usage for those miles (to be safe, though
sometimes it isn't any different) and factor cost per year and how long
you intend to keep the car, and the time where you'll break even.

What next - you'll probably get some promotional material for some sort
of upper cylinder lubricant to 'protect the valves' . In short (and
remember we've been using the stuff heavily here since the 1970s, so
it's very well known) it's complete horseshit. Apart from the fact that
the engine was probably designed with hardened valve seat insterts for
unleaded petrol for a worldwide market, the stuff just makes no
difference at all. Even 'bad' candidates as valve seats go will last
years on unleaded. Sure they'll eventually wear out - but not
significantly quicker than the motor. ABSOLUTELY don't get the head
removed and hardened seat insterts installed if the engine is currently
in good condition. Drive it for years, reap the savings, and when they
eventually have enough to recede to the point of lost performance,
you'll likely have sold the car. Even if the car is a keeper (for
whatever reason - even if nothing other than you like the marque) still
hold off - when the seats eventually wear out, and once again, it's
years and years away, get the head reconditioned and seat inserts, and
you'd easily pay for it from all the savings on running on gas for the
better part of a decade.

You'll also find, in stark contrast to the scare tactics, that lpg is
(duh) gas, so it won't dilute the micro oil film on the bores like
petrol can. That washes it off and speeds up bore wear. Going from carbs
to efi, meant less overuse of the choke when cold, less washdown of the
bores with fuel condensing on bore walls when the engine is cold, and
longer life. But going even from decent efi to lpg, it's a bigger
improvement again. Meaning if the engine is truly in good condition now,
then you can go on with it, have the head done down the track, and still
have a decent bottom end to put it on. The oil doesn't get contaminated
with petrol, so less wear and tear on bearings too. The oil likely won't
get blackened as much - be that as it may - still change it regularly -
left unchecked with lpg cars there is more of a tendency for it to go
slightly acidic (I think, or was it alkaline?) - in any event - fresh
oil every 5000miles (which is possibly more frequent than factory
intervals) or the factory interval and you can't lose.

Some will 'help' you by suggesting a colder thermostat. It's about as
ill informed as can be. The reasons are basically thus - lpg convertors
are designed to meter fuel correctly at around 190-190F - cooler than
that, they still 'work' but will supply a richer mixture, typically
moreso at higher speeds and loads (and possibly enough to even
circumvent the feedback gear). So you lose economy - possibly a 10% or
greater loss vs lpg with a 'proper' thermostat. Secondly - engines are
designed with clearances set so they'll be 'just right' at proper
operating temp, and at that temp, they wear the least. Excess clearance
(*i.e. when cold) leads to faster wear - and you wouldn't believe just
how fast. It's exacerbated on petrol, as again, it clings to the bore
walls, but it's still a factor on lpg. As a side note, it also means
your heater will work properly on any car that uses the coolant through
a heater core (a big deal anywhere with colder winters). On a final (and
slightly overlapping) point, running a cooler thermostat has one other
disadvantage - condensation (however modest) will end up 'stuck' in the
oil and won't boil off (remember at a 195f coolant temp, you will find
areas a little hotter actually in the engine, and possibly at some
points in the oil system, enough to take care of it. With a 160F
thermostat (a common misguided recommendation) you've got buckley's
chance of that happening.

What else - generally speaking, as alluded to, unlike the 'big 3' of 4
barrel performance carburettor manufacturers (where all of their
offerings, if properly optimised, have near identical performance
potential, despite individual loyalties/fandom) there really is some
variation in quality, performance and reliability of certain lpg
systems. As a general rule some of (others might say most, I'll stick
with some) of the Italian gear is absolute shite. You get what you pay
for to some extent. I'm sure it's the case anywhere as much as it is in
my part of the world - more often than not the conversion workshops that
have the lowest prices arrive at such prices by either cutting corners
during the install, or using the cheapest dodgiest equipment - and
frequently both. Even a shoddy lpg setup will save money over petrol so
it can delude owners into thinking 'well that's all you can expect from
lpg' but it is categorically untrue. So in light of that, my suggestion
is to point blank ignore any place where the price is 'too good to be
true'. Sadly there's also those who do all the dodgy crap and still
charge like a wounded bull. All I can suggest here is to enquire as to
the brands and get back to us here, we can offer some insight, and on
top of that, even once the places that use quality equipment are
ascertained, do a second stage check, and find people who have gone to
those workshops and get their feedback. You will be far better off
getting it done right the first time, and paying a few dollars (pounds,
euros, florins, whatever) more, so that everything thereafter is a
nightmare free money saving experience.

Other than that, most conversion places won't go there unless
specifically asked, but if the ignition is anything but tip top - sort
it - new (and decent) leads, plugs etc, and importantly - gap the plugs
5 thou (imperial) closer than the factory spec. Lpg is far more fussy
about ignition, and a car running 'fine' on petrol can be a pig on lpg
with a borderline ignition, but since it's so 'great' on petrol, people
assume it's not the ignition, it must be the lpg system. Take this
advice to the bank, and if you really want, I'll give the rundown on
why, but this post is long enough already!

Plenty of Aussies do that. I've been running practically every car I've
had on straight lpg since the early 90s. No big challenge really - and
certainly a positive step - why lug the weight of a fuel tank and pump
and other crap for the petrol system if you don't need it - people
survive fine with 'just 1' tank for petrol, so going straight lpg isn't
any harder. some will say you can't top up lpg if you run out.
Absolutely not the case, and it isn't rocket science as to how it's done
(science sure, but elementary)- a special adapter hose and an ordinary
barbecue gas bottle as the pseudo jerry can.

Check out via google some posts in aus.cars, or ask here, and more
details can be provided.

Last paragraph (I promise) - I've cut off the cross posts except for
alt.autos.saab (where I think the original post started, but might be
wrong) and kept only the aus.cars cross post. I'd cheerfully encourage
you to stick around in aus.cars for a short while - as there's a fair
few of us here that are into lpg in a big way (as enthusiasts, I'm not
suggesting we have any financial connection) and have decent experience.
Of course we'll probably have a bit of a pisstake/stir about saabs in
general, but that's not to say there won't be sincere helpful advice
(infact it'll almost certainly be a case of both in the same post) :)

Here's a 99 (yes, 99) with a 900T16 engine on LPG;
http://www.saabforum.nl/viewtopic.php?t=40285
http://85.17.151.145/249250001-249300000/249295201-249295300/249295265_5_1_Gr.jpeg

On May 16, 11:48 pm, "pjg...@googlemail.com" <pjg...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys ...

Doing a lot more reading and taking advice from some other sources, I
gather the multi-point ECU controlled system will be fine for our 1992
LPT (and for my friend's 9000 CSE). I think a single-point analogue
system will be fine for my CIS/K-Jet car and I am just waiting on a
reply with pictures from a Hungarian online friend who has this setup
on his two CIS/K-Jet cars.

I have also found a company in the UK who will offer interest free
credit to get the system installed (and you use the savings to pay for
the installation over time), which will help my friend out. They do
not offer a system that is compatible with my CIS/K-Jet car, so I need
to do some more reading there. John McKenzie's post has given me a lot
to think about - thanks fella!

Paul,
a subject for next Tuesday...if I could get it on my good lady's CSE it
might just be worth the cost.

Genuinely considering going to one car only for a while at the mo.  Two
cars, big mortgage, two growing kids, rising fuel, food costs etc....

Al